Racist groups vs Free Speech, i've converted...

[Cecilie1200]

No conundrum at all. Let people speak. If we can't beat people in the arena of ideas, we don't deserve to.

Freedom of expression is about speech we DON'T like, not speech we DO like.
.

Not to mention the fact that repugnant scum like white supremacists do more to marginalize themselves by speaking their beliefs freely and loudly than anything else could ever do. Driving them into hiding does nothing to change their minds, and only romanticizes them in the eyes of the dimwits who would be their primary recruiting field.

One fights disgusting ideas through free speech and education, not through repression.

Bingo.

The beauty of freedom of expression - well, one of them - is that it points out the lunatics, loud and clear. I want to know who they are, where they are, what they are thinking and (perhaps most importantly) who agrees with them.

The Regressives think that shutting people up will change minds. That's how an illiberal leftist authoritarian thinks, and it's both narcissistic and naive.
.

Exactly. I would much rather have a business owner tell me up front that he doesn't want to serve me because he doesn't like interracial couples than have him keep it a secret. I have no desire to give my money to support his business, and would rather know and go shop elsewhere. If the people in a neighborhood are mouthbreathing Klan members, I'd rather they be open about it, so that I can decide to buy a house elsewhere. I want people who are likely to be hateful and violent to plant big, flashing neon signs over their own heads, figuratively speaking.

 

[nat4900]

If a culture has value, its people will keep it alive without help. If they don't, it obviously wasn't worth much.

Cecilie is up for a job writing those cute sayings in Chinese fortune cookies.....LOL

 

[nat4900]

No conundrum at all. Let people speak. If we can't beat people in the arena of ideas, we don't deserve to.

Freedom of expression is about speech we DON'T like, not speech we DO like.
.

Not to mention the fact that repugnant scum like white supremacists do more to marginalize themselves by speaking their beliefs freely and loudly than anything else could ever do. Driving them into hiding does nothing to change their minds, and only romanticizes them in the eyes of the dimwits who would be their primary recruiting field.

One fights disgusting ideas through free speech and education, not through repression.

Bingo.

The beauty of freedom of expression - well, one of them - is that it points out the lunatics, loud and clear. I want to know who they are, where they are, what they are thinking and (perhaps most importantly) who agrees with them.

The Regressives think that shutting people up will change minds. That's how an illiberal leftist authoritarian thinks, and it's both narcissistic and naive.
.

Exactly. I would much rather have a business owner tell me up front that he doesn't want to serve me because he doesn't like interracial couples than have him keep it a secret. I have no desire to give my money to support his business, and would rather know and go shop elsewhere. If the people in a neighborhood are mouthbreathing Klan members, I'd rather they be open about it, so that I can decide to buy a house elsewhere. I want people who are likely to be hateful and violent to plant big, flashing neon signs over their own heads, figuratively speaking.

 

[Mac1958]

No conundrum at all. Let people speak. If we can't beat people in the arena of ideas, we don't deserve to.

Freedom of expression is about speech we DON'T like, not speech we DO like.
.

Not to mention the fact that repugnant scum like white supremacists do more to marginalize themselves by speaking their beliefs freely and loudly than anything else could ever do. Driving them into hiding does nothing to change their minds, and only romanticizes them in the eyes of the dimwits who would be their primary recruiting field.

One fights disgusting ideas through free speech and education, not through repression.

Bingo.

The beauty of freedom of expression - well, one of them - is that it points out the lunatics, loud and clear. I want to know who they are, where they are, what they are thinking and (perhaps most importantly) who agrees with them.

The Regressives think that shutting people up will change minds. That's how an illiberal leftist authoritarian thinks, and it's both narcissistic and naive.
.

Exactly. I would much rather have a business owner tell me up front that he doesn't want to serve me because he doesn't like interracial couples than have him keep it a secret. I have no desire to give my money to support his business, and would rather know and go shop elsewhere. If the people in a neighborhood are mouthbreathing Klan members, I'd rather they be open about it, so that I can decide to buy a house elsewhere. I want people who are likely to be hateful and violent to plant big, flashing neon signs over their own heads, figuratively speaking.

Yep. And surely the Regressives recognize this. This has to be about control and payback then, not about improving anything.
.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No conundrum at all. Let people speak. If we can't beat people in the arena of ideas, we don't deserve to.

Freedom of expression is about speech we DON'T like, not speech we DO like.
.

Not to mention the fact that repugnant scum like white supremacists do more to marginalize themselves by speaking their beliefs freely and loudly than anything else could ever do. Driving them into hiding does nothing to change their minds, and only romanticizes them in the eyes of the dimwits who would be their primary recruiting field.

One fights disgusting ideas through free speech and education, not through repression.

Bingo.

The beauty of freedom of expression - well, one of them - is that it points out the lunatics, loud and clear. I want to know who they are, where they are, what they are thinking and (perhaps most importantly) who agrees with them.

The Regressives think that shutting people up will change minds. That's how an illiberal leftist authoritarian thinks, and it's both narcissistic and naive.
.

Molly Ball pointed out on Washington Week Friday that the internet has given these hate groups a place to gather where their ideas are accepted by others and they can reach a larger audience than in the pre-internet days. She believes it is a big factor in the rise in popularity of these groups currently.
I think all internet platforms that allow it need to think soberly and carefully about what they are providing.
The counter protesters yesterday in Boston caused the free speech speakers to leave before they all spoke their piece, according to one news article I read. There was no violence against the few dozen rally attendees, but the 15,000 people who didn't like their views seemed to have a cooling effect on their agenda. Maybe it got too noisy or the hate groups felt intimidated? Maybe they'll think about what intimidation feels like....that it doesn't feel so good? Not likely, but one can always hope.

Yeah, the internet may be as harmful as it is helpful. Talk about a mixed blessing.

These people know they're hated, and that just makes them band together more, it makes them recruit more, it convinces them even more that they have "The Truth" on their side. I think that ignoring them is far more constructive than screaming at them.

There's another thing at play here, though: There are people on the Left who know this, but a higher priority is to conflate the Nazi idiots with all things Trump, all things GOP, all things conservative. How cynical is that? Keeping racial tensions alive and well for political advantage.
.

Well, ignorant dimwits are always going to find each other. You can't really stop them from doing so. But the solution to them is never going to be driving them into secrecy. History has shown that oppression merely drives like-minded people closer together and hardens their resolve.

The answer to hatred and ignorance is always going to be education, and nothing is more educational on the subject of racist assholes (of all colors and creeds) than actually seeing them in action.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No conundrum at all. Let people speak. If we can't beat people in the arena of ideas, we don't deserve to.

Freedom of expression is about speech we DON'T like, not speech we DO like.
.

Not to mention the fact that repugnant scum like white supremacists do more to marginalize themselves by speaking their beliefs freely and loudly than anything else could ever do. Driving them into hiding does nothing to change their minds, and only romanticizes them in the eyes of the dimwits who would be their primary recruiting field.

One fights disgusting ideas through free speech and education, not through repression.

Bingo.

The beauty of freedom of expression - well, one of them - is that it points out the lunatics, loud and clear. I want to know who they are, where they are, what they are thinking and (perhaps most importantly) who agrees with them.

The Regressives think that shutting people up will change minds. That's how an illiberal leftist authoritarian thinks, and it's both narcissistic and naive.
.

Exactly. I would much rather have a business owner tell me up front that he doesn't want to serve me because he doesn't like interracial couples than have him keep it a secret. I have no desire to give my money to support his business, and would rather know and go shop elsewhere. If the people in a neighborhood are mouthbreathing Klan members, I'd rather they be open about it, so that I can decide to buy a house elsewhere. I want people who are likely to be hateful and violent to plant big, flashing neon signs over their own heads, figuratively speaking.

Hate to break it to you, comrade, but the biggest flashing sign around here is over YOUR head. When I say that we need to see hate-filled imbeciles in action so that we can see them for the repellent creatures that they are, you are Exhibit A.

 

[Cecilie1200]

If a culture has value, its people will keep it alive without help. If they don't, it obviously wasn't worth much.

Cecilie is up for a job writing those cute sayings in Chinese fortune cookies.....LOL

I'm just stating a factual truth. If you're hearing things in soundbytes, maybe the problem is with you. No, make that "definitely the problem is with you".

 

[nat4900]

I'm just stating a factual truth. If you're hearing things in soundbytes, maybe the problem is with you. No, make that "definitely the problem is with you".

Replace those batteries, Cecilie..you're becoming unhinged......LOL

 

[Cecilie1200]

No conundrum at all. Let people speak. If we can't beat people in the arena of ideas, we don't deserve to.

Freedom of expression is about speech we DON'T like, not speech we DO like.
.

Not to mention the fact that repugnant scum like white supremacists do more to marginalize themselves by speaking their beliefs freely and loudly than anything else could ever do. Driving them into hiding does nothing to change their minds, and only romanticizes them in the eyes of the dimwits who would be their primary recruiting field.

One fights disgusting ideas through free speech and education, not through repression.

Bingo.

The beauty of freedom of expression - well, one of them - is that it points out the lunatics, loud and clear. I want to know who they are, where they are, what they are thinking and (perhaps most importantly) who agrees with them.

The Regressives think that shutting people up will change minds. That's how an illiberal leftist authoritarian thinks, and it's both narcissistic and naive.
.

Exactly. I would much rather have a business owner tell me up front that he doesn't want to serve me because he doesn't like interracial couples than have him keep it a secret. I have no desire to give my money to support his business, and would rather know and go shop elsewhere. If the people in a neighborhood are mouthbreathing Klan members, I'd rather they be open about it, so that I can decide to buy a house elsewhere. I want people who are likely to be hateful and violent to plant big, flashing neon signs over their own heads, figuratively speaking.

Yep. And surely the Regressives recognize this. This has to be about control and payback then, not about improving anything.
.

When are they ever about improving anything but their own grasp on power?

 

[Mac1958]

No conundrum at all. Let people speak. If we can't beat people in the arena of ideas, we don't deserve to.

Freedom of expression is about speech we DON'T like, not speech we DO like.
.

Not to mention the fact that repugnant scum like white supremacists do more to marginalize themselves by speaking their beliefs freely and loudly than anything else could ever do. Driving them into hiding does nothing to change their minds, and only romanticizes them in the eyes of the dimwits who would be their primary recruiting field.

One fights disgusting ideas through free speech and education, not through repression.

Bingo.

The beauty of freedom of expression - well, one of them - is that it points out the lunatics, loud and clear. I want to know who they are, where they are, what they are thinking and (perhaps most importantly) who agrees with them.

The Regressives think that shutting people up will change minds. That's how an illiberal leftist authoritarian thinks, and it's both narcissistic and naive.
.

Molly Ball pointed out on Washington Week Friday that the internet has given these hate groups a place to gather where their ideas are accepted by others and they can reach a larger audience than in the pre-internet days. She believes it is a big factor in the rise in popularity of these groups currently.
I think all internet platforms that allow it need to think soberly and carefully about what they are providing.
The counter protesters yesterday in Boston caused the free speech speakers to leave before they all spoke their piece, according to one news article I read. There was no violence against the few dozen rally attendees, but the 15,000 people who didn't like their views seemed to have a cooling effect on their agenda. Maybe it got too noisy or the hate groups felt intimidated? Maybe they'll think about what intimidation feels like....that it doesn't feel so good? Not likely, but one can always hope.

Yeah, the internet may be as harmful as it is helpful. Talk about a mixed blessing.

These people know they're hated, and that just makes them band together more, it makes them recruit more, it convinces them even more that they have "The Truth" on their side. I think that ignoring them is far more constructive than screaming at them.

There's another thing at play here, though: There are people on the Left who know this, but a higher priority is to conflate the Nazi idiots with all things Trump, all things GOP, all things conservative. How cynical is that? Keeping racial tensions alive and well for political advantage.
.

Well, ignorant dimwits are always going to find each other. You can't really stop them from doing so. But the solution to them is never going to be driving them into secrecy. History has shown that oppression merely drives like-minded people closer together and hardens their resolve.

The answer to hatred and ignorance is always going to be education, and nothing is more educational on the subject of racist assholes (of all colors and creeds) than actually seeing them in action.

Education and communication. Right now, no one is communicating, and here we are.
.

 

[nat4900]

Yep. And surely the Regressives recognize this. This has to be about control and payback then, not about improving anything.

How "true".......Right wingers prayed for complete control in D.C. and got it.......So, now, look how much our lives have "improved"....

• We have a fantastic HC plan that covers everybody and is cheaper and better
• 
  
• We have a beautiful wall funded by Mexican pesos
• 
  
• We have an outstanding NEW tax reform law that the middle class simply loves
• 
  
• We now have the world's envy regarding our infrastructure
• 
  
• We also have the entire planet praising us about the orange POTUS
• 
  
• Our nation has NEVER been so united under this amazing man who rarely takes time out to go golfing because the work is so important.....

Should I go on?????

 

[Cecilie1200]

Not to mention the fact that repugnant scum like white supremacists do more to marginalize themselves by speaking their beliefs freely and loudly than anything else could ever do. Driving them into hiding does nothing to change their minds, and only romanticizes them in the eyes of the dimwits who would be their primary recruiting field.

One fights disgusting ideas through free speech and education, not through repression.

Bingo.

The beauty of freedom of expression - well, one of them - is that it points out the lunatics, loud and clear. I want to know who they are, where they are, what they are thinking and (perhaps most importantly) who agrees with them.

The Regressives think that shutting people up will change minds. That's how an illiberal leftist authoritarian thinks, and it's both narcissistic and naive.
.

Molly Ball pointed out on Washington Week Friday that the internet has given these hate groups a place to gather where their ideas are accepted by others and they can reach a larger audience than in the pre-internet days. She believes it is a big factor in the rise in popularity of these groups currently.
I think all internet platforms that allow it need to think soberly and carefully about what they are providing.
The counter protesters yesterday in Boston caused the free speech speakers to leave before they all spoke their piece, according to one news article I read. There was no violence against the few dozen rally attendees, but the 15,000 people who didn't like their views seemed to have a cooling effect on their agenda. Maybe it got too noisy or the hate groups felt intimidated? Maybe they'll think about what intimidation feels like....that it doesn't feel so good? Not likely, but one can always hope.

Yeah, the internet may be as harmful as it is helpful. Talk about a mixed blessing.

These people know they're hated, and that just makes them band together more, it makes them recruit more, it convinces them even more that they have "The Truth" on their side. I think that ignoring them is far more constructive than screaming at them.

There's another thing at play here, though: There are people on the Left who know this, but a higher priority is to conflate the Nazi idiots with all things Trump, all things GOP, all things conservative. How cynical is that? Keeping racial tensions alive and well for political advantage.
.

Well, ignorant dimwits are always going to find each other. You can't really stop them from doing so. But the solution to them is never going to be driving them into secrecy. History has shown that oppression merely drives like-minded people closer together and hardens their resolve.

The answer to hatred and ignorance is always going to be education, and nothing is more educational on the subject of racist assholes (of all colors and creeds) than actually seeing them in action.

Education and communication. Right now, no one is communicating, and here we are.
.

Politics has pretty much become people standing in their own corners, fingers in their ears, and shouting at each other.

 

[Mac1958]

Yep. And surely the Regressives recognize this. This has to be about control and payback then, not about improving anything.

How "true".......Right wingers prayed for complete control in D.C. and got it.......So, now, look how much our lives have "improved"....

• We have a fantastic HC plan that covers everybody and is cheaper and better
• 
  
• We have a beautiful wall funded by Mexican pesos
• 
  
• We have an outstanding NEW tax reform law that the middle class simply loves
• 
  
• We now have the world's envy regarding our infrastructure
• 
  
• We also have the entire planet praising us about the orange POTUS
• 
  
• Our nation has NEVER been so united under this amazing man who rarely takes time out to go golfing because the work is so important.....

Should I go on?????

Standard partisan attacks that have nothing to do with my point, the Regressive Left's opposition to freedom of expression.

I voted against Trump. Play this game with someone else, thanks.
..

 

[nat4900]

I voted against Trump

Advise other right wingers to adopt the above line....and soon....
LOL

 

[Mac1958]

I voted against Trump

Advise other right wingers to adopt the above line....and soon....
LOL

More standard partisan behavior - shallow, binary thinking.

There's a link in my sig that specifically illustrates where I stand politically.

Whatever you do, don't look at it. It will only confuse you.
.

 

[Avatar4321]

If a culture has value, its people will keep it alive without help. If they don't, it obviously wasn't worth much.

Cecilie is up for a job writing those cute sayings in Chinese fortune cookies.....LOL

You mean the truth?

 

[Avatar4321]

I voted against Trump

Advise other right wingers to adopt the above line....and soon....
LOL

Again, you have issues with people being honest. As if anyone who was paying attention to the discussion at the election didn't know Mac voted for Hillary

 

[Mac1958]

I voted against Trump

Advise other right wingers to adopt the above line....and soon....
LOL

Again, you have issues with people being honest. As if anyone who was paying attention to the discussion at the election didn't know Mac voted for Hillary

If you believe this, you MUST believe in ALL of THAT.

That's how simplistic and binary our politics have become.
.

 

[Slade3200]

Are you ever going to get around to answering my question. You seem pretty full of insults and finger point but lacking in substance and productive ideas. So try again

You've gotten all the answer you're going to get, I'm not you damn secretary.


.

I'm not asking you to act like a secretary. I'm asking you to act like a man and back up what you say. But when I ask direct questions you deflect and give non answers....

So you want schools to teach more accurate history but you don't want to spend any money and you don't know how to do it. Your goal is for people to understand that black people owned slaves in the civil war era because then they wouldn't want to take down conferderate statues.... did I get that right? Because that's what you've told me so far. Can you see why it's difficult to take you seriously?

Maybe you should take a remedial reading class. I said to get back to the basics and truth, throw out the leftist PC and social justice agenda and enforce discipline. It doesn't cost a damn dime.


.

I get your philosophy and that's fine and dandy but now give me practical application... how do you make it happen? You plan on sending a letter to all the schools and then poof it magically happens? Explain how you roll it out....

Typical child like regressive approach to a problem, poof and things magically happens. In the real world people are made aware of a problem, discuss solutions and build consensus to address it, then they implement the solutions. And yes I've discussed it with my community, local, State and federal elected officials. Also on this and other forums.


.

So you talk about it in forums. What comes of your plans. How's are your proposed changes implemented and how do they translate to practical results? Youve dodged this like 3 times now

 

[OKTexas]

You've gotten all the answer you're going to get, I'm not you damn secretary.


.

I'm not asking you to act like a secretary. I'm asking you to act like a man and back up what you say. But when I ask direct questions you deflect and give non answers....

So you want schools to teach more accurate history but you don't want to spend any money and you don't know how to do it. Your goal is for people to understand that black people owned slaves in the civil war era because then they wouldn't want to take down conferderate statues.... did I get that right? Because that's what you've told me so far. Can you see why it's difficult to take you seriously?

Maybe you should take a remedial reading class. I said to get back to the basics and truth, throw out the leftist PC and social justice agenda and enforce discipline. It doesn't cost a damn dime.


.

I get your philosophy and that's fine and dandy but now give me practical application... how do you make it happen? You plan on sending a letter to all the schools and then poof it magically happens? Explain how you roll it out....

Typical child like regressive approach to a problem, poof and things magically happens. In the real world people are made aware of a problem, discuss solutions and build consensus to address it, then they implement the solutions. And yes I've discussed it with my community, local, State and federal elected officials. Also on this and other forums.


.

So you talk about it in forums. What comes of your plans. How's are your proposed changes implemented and how do they translate to practical results? Youve dodged this like 3 times now

.


The same way your commie indoctrination was introduced, a little at a time.


.