Racist groups vs Free Speech, i've converted...

[Slade3200]

You are probably right, the vast majority of the nation including many republicans, accomplished CEOs and Trump supporters are all just crazy and reacting to nothing. Keep running with that. Ignorance is bliss I guess

You must be able to back that up, if you're going to claim it.

have you not been paying attention to what's been happening this past week? Trumps business advisory councils, gone. Military generals speaking out. Republican allies to trump like corker speaking out. Open you're eyes chica you got blinders on

The leftists pretending to be rightists getting angry is nothing new, they've been against Trump since the beginning. The leftists whining is also nothing new. No, what I want you to prove is that the "vast majority of the nation" is up in arms over Trump pointing out ANTIFA is also in the wrong.

You think corker is a leftist pretending to be a rightist? Really? Care to explain why?

You're clearly deflecting because you can't prove that the vast majority of the nation holds your view.

Oh, that's the part you were talking about? So you conceded that accomplished business men and congressional allies of Trumps feel that way? Great! There are a ton of polls that show the public approval of how Trump handled the situation at below 30%. I assume you are going to say all polls are fake and run by leftist scum. If you can name a poll that you think is reputable then we can look at that and I'm sure it will prove my point. But if not then I'll concede that point as there is no other way of proving it besides just using common sense.

 

[Slade3200]

You don't see the difference between the soldiers and the generals/leaders? Come on Marty, think on this one for a few minutes.

It does not matter what the damn statue is, it is being taken down. IT IS about the soldiers, if you are too stupid to know that which I doubt, you are too stupid to know the truth about why anyone would want to remove them.

Pretty simple, people want to remove statues that stand for messages of hate and racism. It's not complicated. You can't really deny that many were erected with those purposes... same thing with the confederate flag

DAMN LIE they want to subjugate everyone by force, and they know if they can marginalize small groups of people there will be less backlash when they kill them then as the groups are killed, they attatch other people to the groups and kill them AND >>>>>>>>> JUST ASK the 70 women and children they murdered at MT Carmel. Got news for you this shit will end soon and you dimshit scum aren't gonna like it.

Well I'd be fine with a confederate statue being taken down in my community if it was up to a vote and I don't support any of that crap you just spewed. I doubt I'm the only one that feels this way, it's just common sense. Sorry, guess you're just wrong.

Recent polls show that 62% of Americans believe the statues should be left in place.

Are you willing to support that?

Sure i believe that..., though I think it is a case by case situation. If I was asked a general question about statues I'd say let them stand. But if a case was made against a statue that stood as a symbol of hate then I'd absolutely support scrapping it

 

[Spare_change]

It does not matter what the damn statue is, it is being taken down. IT IS about the soldiers, if you are too stupid to know that which I doubt, you are too stupid to know the truth about why anyone would want to remove them.

Pretty simple, people want to remove statues that stand for messages of hate and racism. It's not complicated. You can't really deny that many were erected with those purposes... same thing with the confederate flag

DAMN LIE they want to subjugate everyone by force, and they know if they can marginalize small groups of people there will be less backlash when they kill them then as the groups are killed, they attatch other people to the groups and kill them AND >>>>>>>>> JUST ASK the 70 women and children they murdered at MT Carmel. Got news for you this shit will end soon and you dimshit scum aren't gonna like it.

Well I'd be fine with a confederate statue being taken down in my community if it was up to a vote and I don't support any of that crap you just spewed. I doubt I'm the only one that feels this way, it's just common sense. Sorry, guess you're just wrong.

Recent polls show that 62% of Americans believe the statues should be left in place.

Are you willing to support that?

Seems those that own the land the statues are on are the ones that should be making the decisions as to whether they stay or go. In other words the cities, universities, and counties.

Actually, that's not true ..... the land belongs to the people, and the people aren't being asked.

 

[Spare_change]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

Thank you. When we make it ok to remove rights if we don't like you we are finished as a country of who we have been for 250 years.

Well, you might have the right to free speech, but when you come in torch light parades, carrying the swastika and chanting nazi slogans, then show up the next day with shields and clubs, you are beyond the protection of free speech. I was born in the middle of a war created by the Nazis. 50 million people died in that war. There is no way that we can tolerate the bastards getting a foothold here. When they come with weapons, meet them with weapons.

In Boston, we saw the best way to destroy these cancers on society. 40,000 good citizens showed up to say 'no way' to the nazis. And the police stated that anyone with weapons would immediately be arrested. The cowards did not show up. Nor will they if they have to face the good citizens of this nation.

A great idea!!

Squelch dissenting opinion.

It makes it ever so much easier to control the masses.

Look asshole, the people that wanted to speak were able to speak. They just were not allowed weapons and shields. And without those, the cowards did not show up.

Again, you tell lies.

When the "free speech" people attempted to speak, they were shouted down by the "counter-protesters".

As for the "asshole" comment - grow the fuck up. This isn't junior high ... try to have an adult discussion. You might find it a new experience.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

You're making vivid that the future inhabitants will care about your history, or will respect your heritage.

I don't necessarily think it's a given that the group that goes onto dominate by numbers will respect the group they replace, which is just how stupid you anti-Racists are.

Because of some kind of stupid equality position, they're willing to bring potential abuse upon their own, and even demise to their own.

That's not normal behavior, that's unfeeling, sub-Human, Psychopathic, idiotic, senseless behavior.

You still haven't answered my question... Why does it matter to you so much?

Why should anything on the planet matter?

Might as well blow up the planet with a nuclear bomb, destroying all life.
Because nothing matters.

Well, I'm so sorry, I'm not a Psychopath.

Why can't you answer a simple question? I've asked you serveral times now and you keep diverting with overblown dramatic rhetoric.

To be clear, my arguement to you is that life matters, happiness matters, how we live our lives matter. I don't understand hateful and divisive efforts, especially over something as petty and superficial as race. We are all living together on one planet. Carry on with whatever cultural traditions from your ancestors that you hold dear, instill those values in your children and they will pass them on. But why judge what other people do and spend so much energy spreading such ugliness? What is it about "heritage" that is so important to you?

No more petty empty diversions, answer the question with a thoughtful argument and engage in intellectual debate or stop wasting my time.

So, you sound like you hate diversity.
You seem to want to destroy the diversity of the World.

Why should we destroy diverse, and unique heritages when we can humanely just enforce immigration laws?

No, race is not really superficial.
There's clear sweeping disparities between the races in intelligence.

No, you can't just explain away the disparities of intelligence by only environmental explanations.

Man, you are really struggling to give direct answers... let's stop with the foolish assumptions and just talk straight shall we?

It appears you are making the argument that you care about heratage because you don't want to water down the intellect of the human race. Is that right?

Actually I don't support anyone's heritage to vanish.

I don't support the endangered San Bushman to vanish either, even though they're not smart.

However, I most certainly am also concerned with the watering down of the intellect of Humanity as well.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

You don't see the difference between the soldiers and the generals/leaders? Come on Marty, think on this one for a few minutes.

It does not matter what the damn statue is, it is being taken down. IT IS about the soldiers, if you are too stupid to know that which I doubt, you are too stupid to know the truth about why anyone would want to remove them.

Pretty simple, people want to remove statues that stand for messages of hate and racism. It's not complicated. You can't really deny that many were erected with those purposes... same thing with the confederate flag

What hate, and Racism in those statues?

The Confederates were economic extreme Capitalists.

They saw slavery as a means of profit, nothing to do with hate, and racism.

For goodness sake, slavery was a business, which imported Blacks into their own backyards.

How is that racist?
How many racists do you know want to import Blacks into their own backyards?

What kind of racist would want to import blacks into their back yards? Uh, the kind that see blacks a subhuman work horses whose only purpose is to serve their master. Maybe use the women preparing the meals and for the occasional rape. Get the guys out in the fields to do the grunt work. Yeah, those kind of racists DID that. You're not the sharpest tool in the shed are you?

Uh, why would Racists want to bring an inferior people into their own backyards?

Furthermore, why would they support the numbers of an inferior race to grow, in their backyards.

Wouldn't a real Racist want to avoid Blacks, rather than support them in their backyards?

The bottom-line is that Slavery was a business, it's sole purpose was to profit.

It's not a case of racism, it's a case of Capitalist greed.

The same reason people bought Black slaves to this country, is the same reason people bought Mexican illegals to this country.

It's all about mega profits.

 

[Slade3200]

You don't see the difference between the soldiers and the generals/leaders? Come on Marty, think on this one for a few minutes.

It does not matter what the damn statue is, it is being taken down. IT IS about the soldiers, if you are too stupid to know that which I doubt, you are too stupid to know the truth about why anyone would want to remove them.

Pretty simple, people want to remove statues that stand for messages of hate and racism. It's not complicated. You can't really deny that many were erected with those purposes... same thing with the confederate flag

What hate, and Racism in those statues?

The Confederates were economic extreme Capitalists.

They saw slavery as a means of profit, nothing to do with hate, and racism.

For goodness sake, slavery was a business, which imported Blacks into their own backyards.

How is that racist?
How many racists do you know want to import Blacks into their own backyards?

What kind of racist would want to import blacks into their back yards? Uh, the kind that see blacks a subhuman work horses whose only purpose is to serve their master. Maybe use the women preparing the meals and for the occasional rape. Get the guys out in the fields to do the grunt work. Yeah, those kind of racists DID that. You're not the sharpest tool in the shed are you?

Uh, why would Racists want to bring an inferior people into their own backyards?

Furthermore, why would they support the numbers of an inferior race to grow, in their backyards.

Wouldn't a real Racist want to avoid Blacks, rather than support them in their backyards?

The bottom-line is that Slavery was a business, it's sole purpose was to profit.

It's not a case of racism, it's a case of Capitalist greed.

The same reason people bought Black slaves to this country, is the same reason people bought Mexican illegals to this country.

It's all about mega profits.

I just explained it and you ask again? Not my problem if you can't understand

 

[Slade3200]

You still haven't answered my question... Why does it matter to you so much?

Why should anything on the planet matter?

Might as well blow up the planet with a nuclear bomb, destroying all life.
Because nothing matters.

Well, I'm so sorry, I'm not a Psychopath.

Why can't you answer a simple question? I've asked you serveral times now and you keep diverting with overblown dramatic rhetoric.

To be clear, my arguement to you is that life matters, happiness matters, how we live our lives matter. I don't understand hateful and divisive efforts, especially over something as petty and superficial as race. We are all living together on one planet. Carry on with whatever cultural traditions from your ancestors that you hold dear, instill those values in your children and they will pass them on. But why judge what other people do and spend so much energy spreading such ugliness? What is it about "heritage" that is so important to you?

No more petty empty diversions, answer the question with a thoughtful argument and engage in intellectual debate or stop wasting my time.

So, you sound like you hate diversity.
You seem to want to destroy the diversity of the World.

Why should we destroy diverse, and unique heritages when we can humanely just enforce immigration laws?

No, race is not really superficial.
There's clear sweeping disparities between the races in intelligence.

No, you can't just explain away the disparities of intelligence by only environmental explanations.

Man, you are really struggling to give direct answers... let's stop with the foolish assumptions and just talk straight shall we?

It appears you are making the argument that you care about heratage because you don't want to water down the intellect of the human race. Is that right?

Actually I don't support anyone's heritage to vanish.

I don't support the endangered San Bushman to vanish either, even though they're not smart.

However, I most certainly am also concerned with the watering down of the intellect of Humanity as well.

So you don't want the intellect watered down and that's why you're so concerned about heritage. Ok so what do you proposed we do about it

 

[Pumpkin Row]

You must be able to back that up, if you're going to claim it.

have you not been paying attention to what's been happening this past week? Trumps business advisory councils, gone. Military generals speaking out. Republican allies to trump like corker speaking out. Open you're eyes chica you got blinders on

The leftists pretending to be rightists getting angry is nothing new, they've been against Trump since the beginning. The leftists whining is also nothing new. No, what I want you to prove is that the "vast majority of the nation" is up in arms over Trump pointing out ANTIFA is also in the wrong.

You think corker is a leftist pretending to be a rightist? Really? Care to explain why?

You're clearly deflecting because you can't prove that the vast majority of the nation holds your view.

Oh, that's the part you were talking about? So you conceded that accomplished business men and congressional allies of Trumps feel that way? Great! There are a ton of polls that show the public approval of how Trump handled the situation at below 30%. I assume you are going to say all polls are fake and run by leftist scum. If you can name a poll that you think is reputable then we can look at that and I'm sure it will prove my point. But if not then I'll concede that point as there is no other way of proving it besides just using common sense.

If they feel that way, they aren't allies. Just like if they back ANTIFA, they're not rightists. ANTIFA are thugs, and deserve to be treated like thugs. You only only think they should be treated separately from the white supremacists because they're admitted leftists, and your kind assume the white supremacists are right wing.

I'm sure the polls are just as accurate as they were during the election. They interview whoever they want, and only accept the opinions they want.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

It does not matter what the damn statue is, it is being taken down. IT IS about the soldiers, if you are too stupid to know that which I doubt, you are too stupid to know the truth about why anyone would want to remove them.

Pretty simple, people want to remove statues that stand for messages of hate and racism. It's not complicated. You can't really deny that many were erected with those purposes... same thing with the confederate flag

What hate, and Racism in those statues?

The Confederates were economic extreme Capitalists.

They saw slavery as a means of profit, nothing to do with hate, and racism.

For goodness sake, slavery was a business, which imported Blacks into their own backyards.

How is that racist?
How many racists do you know want to import Blacks into their own backyards?

What kind of racist would want to import blacks into their back yards? Uh, the kind that see blacks a subhuman work horses whose only purpose is to serve their master. Maybe use the women preparing the meals and for the occasional rape. Get the guys out in the fields to do the grunt work. Yeah, those kind of racists DID that. You're not the sharpest tool in the shed are you?

Uh, why would Racists want to bring an inferior people into their own backyards?

Furthermore, why would they support the numbers of an inferior race to grow, in their backyards.

Wouldn't a real Racist want to avoid Blacks, rather than support them in their backyards?

The bottom-line is that Slavery was a business, it's sole purpose was to profit.

It's not a case of racism, it's a case of Capitalist greed.

The same reason people bought Black slaves to this country, is the same reason people bought Mexican illegals to this country.

It's all about mega profits.

I just explained it and you ask again? Not my problem if you can't understand

Just about all racists are against Blacks being in the U,S.

Confederate types bought Blacks here.

What's there to get about it not being racism, but rather a business?

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Why should anything on the planet matter?

Might as well blow up the planet with a nuclear bomb, destroying all life.
Because nothing matters.

Well, I'm so sorry, I'm not a Psychopath.

Why can't you answer a simple question? I've asked you serveral times now and you keep diverting with overblown dramatic rhetoric.

To be clear, my arguement to you is that life matters, happiness matters, how we live our lives matter. I don't understand hateful and divisive efforts, especially over something as petty and superficial as race. We are all living together on one planet. Carry on with whatever cultural traditions from your ancestors that you hold dear, instill those values in your children and they will pass them on. But why judge what other people do and spend so much energy spreading such ugliness? What is it about "heritage" that is so important to you?

No more petty empty diversions, answer the question with a thoughtful argument and engage in intellectual debate or stop wasting my time.

So, you sound like you hate diversity.
You seem to want to destroy the diversity of the World.

Why should we destroy diverse, and unique heritages when we can humanely just enforce immigration laws?

No, race is not really superficial.
There's clear sweeping disparities between the races in intelligence.

No, you can't just explain away the disparities of intelligence by only environmental explanations.

Man, you are really struggling to give direct answers... let's stop with the foolish assumptions and just talk straight shall we?

It appears you are making the argument that you care about heratage because you don't want to water down the intellect of the human race. Is that right?

Actually I don't support anyone's heritage to vanish.

I don't support the endangered San Bushman to vanish either, even though they're not smart.

However, I most certainly am also concerned with the watering down of the intellect of Humanity as well.

So you don't want the intellect watered down and that's why you're so concerned about heritage. Ok so what do you proposed we do about it

Actually I care about heritage point blank too, you don't because you don't have real Human feelings, and sentiments.

 

[martybegan]

No, you ignore them, and like most human endeavors a large part of the movement is made up of the not 100% committed. If they are ignored, many will lose interest and you will left with the dullard impotent core.

Half of the confederate monuments were put up in the heyday of Jim Crow period. When you ignore them, they do not lose interest and they do not go away - they breed and multiply.

The early Jim Crow period was also right around the time many of the veterans from the war were dying off, it was when the Union memorials also were going up.

Many of these are from the 1890's to the 1920's which puts the youngest (15 in 1865) vets around 45 to 75 years old.

...but Union side had something to be proud of.

Yes, and they allowed the losers to remember their fallen and their failed in their own way.

And they still do. Feds are not down there taking down monuments. It is the people of those locales.

Confederates fought on the wrong side of history and garbage bin is the final destination of their memory.

It is a small group of whiny people that care. That is all. And politicians find it as an easy thing to do to show "they care". Most people don't care enough to change their vote from whatever party is in power in that location (usually democrats).

 

[martybegan]

No, you ignore them, and like most human endeavors a large part of the movement is made up of the not 100% committed. If they are ignored, many will lose interest and you will left with the dullard impotent core.

Half of the confederate monuments were put up in the heyday of Jim Crow period. When you ignore them, they do not lose interest and they do not go away - they breed and multiply.

The early Jim Crow period was also right around the time many of the veterans from the war were dying off, it was when the Union memorials also were going up.

Many of these are from the 1890's to the 1920's which puts the youngest (15 in 1865) vets around 45 to 75 years old.

So confederate vets were heros post war and then memorialized after they died... I don't see how that is a counter arguement to the accusation that their memorialization was a fuck you to Washington and the equality efforts of that time. We saw the post war protests for decades after the war through Jim Crow, the hanging of the confederate flag, and memorials like these! Is plain as day obvious.

With that said, the story and context needs to be considered for each situation. A blanket policy to rip down all confederate monuments is not a smart approach. For example, I've heard compelling arguments about General Lee who was more than just a confederate General. He played a big roll in unifying the nation after the war, and was actually an advocate NOT to erect confederate statues. His story has more historical context than a Jefferson Davis or other general who was pretty much only known as a confedrate war general.

It comes down to how the community wants to represent their values and history through the symbolism and memorials in their cities. This can evolve in time

The whole concept after the war was to re-join the country. If allowing the former confederates to honor their dead and their failed leaders was part of that, then it was a small price to pay. To tear down the monuments to that process all of a sudden because of butt hurt is an affront to that process.

If people want to put signs up by each memorial explaining why they suck that's fine, but tearing them down because of the bitchy mewling of a bunch of spoiled asshole kids is crazy.

Maybe it was effective for the transition after the war or after the war vets died but we are way beyond that now. Nothing wrong with moving on and honoring figures that better represent the values of our country and our people if that is their will. You also can't deny that many of these symbols had the intent of rebelling against the government and served as reminders to blacks that they are not accepted as equals. If that's determined to be the case don't you think it makes sense to removes those from the public arena?

I don't see them as symbols of "putting the black man down". They are part of history and our collective past. To just remove them on a whim because of butt hurt shows the decline of our society.

 

[martybegan]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

by taking down those statues and removing those flags you are basically playing into their persecution complex and giving them nothing but fodder for recruiting more people to their cause.

There is no reason to remove statues or monuments other than some people just feel a sense of butt hurt when they think or look at them. It's the same revulsion I feel when i walk past some nimrod with a Che shirt on. However I don't feel a need to rip the shirt off or yell at them about it. I sneer, shake my head, and KEEP WALKING.

I disagree, that might be the short term play that they will attempt to capitalize on but in the long term it is removing a source of power and supremacy that exists. Many of those statues were constructed during the Jim Crow era as a check to the blacks that the values of the confederacy still exist. Like I said in the OP whether you take them down or minimize them with "counter" statues of civil rights leaders, I think either is a smart move to combat the hate.

The only power being provided is to the white power idiots, giving them a cause and a platform. Most of these were built in the early 1900's, well after the South "won" via plessey. What most of them are related to is the dying off of the Civil War Veterans, most of whom would have been in their 60's-80's between 1900 and 1920, when a lot of these monuments went up. Even the ones that went up in the 60's can be related to the 100th anniversaries of the start and the end of the Civil War

Why not just put up more memorials to Civil Rights leaders and let people see them all? .

Because time goes on and a whole new generation of people will evolve while the current generation of adults that are familiar die off. Which means very young children and those not born yet will ever be exposed to those statues or the adults caught up in the conflict of the moment forever erasing the stain from public view and relegating it to history books that they won't care about after leaving school permanently throwing the Confederacy and white supremacy on the scrap heap of history. After the 2040's a minority majority is now the US populace and the shit stains that are the current neonazi kkk white supremacists never again have any power politically socially or economically to be of any relevance. So I also take side with the OP that every single statue these maggots worship should be removed completely before the end of 2017.

SJW butthurt bitch you are.

 

[Slash]

What hate, and Racism in those statues?

The Confederates were economic extreme Capitalists.

They saw slavery as a means of profit, nothing to do with hate, and racism.

For goodness sake, slavery was a business, which imported Blacks into their own backyards.

How is that racist?
How many racists do you know want to import Blacks into their own backyards?

Hmm South Carolinas reason for secession was slavery was needed since "none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun"

Louisiana's wasn't just to preserve slavery but to preserve "AFRICAN slavery".

Alabama said no freedom because it would "gratify the lust of half-civilized Africans."

Texas' secession article said "ll white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both"

Jefferson Davis the president of the Confederacy said "white men have an equality resulting from a presence of a lower caste, which cannot exist where white men fill the position here occupied by the servile race. The mechanic who comes among us, employing the less intellectual labor of the African, takes the position which only a master-workman occupies"

Alexander Stephens their Vice President said "With us, all of the white race, however high or low, rich or poor, are equal in the eye of the law. Not so with the negro. Subordination is his place. "

Joseph E Brown, Governor of Georgia said "The negro is in no sense of the term his equal. He feels and knows this. He belongs to the only true aristocracy, the race of white men."

Mississippi Senator Albert Brown when asking if they should try and make slaves Christians said "They are a stiff-necked and rebellious race, and I have little hope that they will receive the blessing"

Mississippi's other Senator John Williams said "This other thing for which we fought was the supremacy of the white man’s civilization in the country which he proudly claimed his own"

The Confederate Veteran (official paper of Confederate soldiers) 40 years after the war said "The kindliest relation that ever existed between the two races in this country, or that ever will, was the ante-bellum relation of master and slave"

James Henry Hammond, governor from South Carolina said in his reasonings for emancipation that "We do not think that whites should be slaves either by law or necessity. Our slaves are black, of another and inferior race. The status in which we have placed them is an elevation. They are elevated from the condition in which God first created them, by being made our slaves. "

Robert E Lee said "The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race,"



So yes, if you want to burn A LOT of books, speeches, writings, letters, and articles of the time that slavery was about the dominance of the white race over the black race, then you can make your point. But you've got a WHOLE BUNCH of history you need to destroy first.

 

[Slash]

Recent polls show that 62% of Americans believe the statues should be left in place.

Are you willing to support that?

Nope. I'll side with the elected representatives. Just like I sided with them when the Majority of voters did not vote for Trump, when the majority did not support repealing Obamacare, Trumps tax plan, Trumps immigration plan, Trumps Afghanistan plan, or lots of other government policies.

 

[Slash]

Actually, that's not true ..... the land belongs to the people, and the people aren't being asked.

Yes they are. That's the point of a representative government like we have. We elect the people we feel will act in our rights. When our electors elected Trump as president, even when the majority of voters chose Hillary over him, that wasn't "taking the land from the people". That was our Government being governed by the Constitution. Sure, we could have anarchy and throw out the Constitution and try self governing. I'd prefer we didn't though.

 

[Slade3200]

have you not been paying attention to what's been happening this past week? Trumps business advisory councils, gone. Military generals speaking out. Republican allies to trump like corker speaking out. Open you're eyes chica you got blinders on

The leftists pretending to be rightists getting angry is nothing new, they've been against Trump since the beginning. The leftists whining is also nothing new. No, what I want you to prove is that the "vast majority of the nation" is up in arms over Trump pointing out ANTIFA is also in the wrong.

You think corker is a leftist pretending to be a rightist? Really? Care to explain why?

You're clearly deflecting because you can't prove that the vast majority of the nation holds your view.

Oh, that's the part you were talking about? So you conceded that accomplished business men and congressional allies of Trumps feel that way? Great! There are a ton of polls that show the public approval of how Trump handled the situation at below 30%. I assume you are going to say all polls are fake and run by leftist scum. If you can name a poll that you think is reputable then we can look at that and I'm sure it will prove my point. But if not then I'll concede that point as there is no other way of proving it besides just using common sense.

If they feel that way, they aren't allies. Just like if they back ANTIFA, they're not rightists. ANTIFA are thugs, and deserve to be treated like thugs. You only only think they should be treated separately from the white supremacists because they're admitted leftists, and your kind assume the white supremacists are right wing.

I'm sure the polls are just as accurate as they were during the election. They interview whoever they want, and only accept the opinions they want.

Not everybody is a puppet excusist to the leader like you appear to be. There were plenty of political allies to Trump that recognized that he fucked up. Just because they spoke out against it l, that doesn't make them a leftist. That's about the dumbest logic I've heard today.

Before I address you ANTIFA comment I have to ask if you know the name of the main Nazi and white supremacists groups that were protesting and who aggravated all the violence in charlottsville? Please respond by posting the names of those groups

 

[Slade3200]

Pretty simple, people want to remove statues that stand for messages of hate and racism. It's not complicated. You can't really deny that many were erected with those purposes... same thing with the confederate flag

What hate, and Racism in those statues?

The Confederates were economic extreme Capitalists.

They saw slavery as a means of profit, nothing to do with hate, and racism.

For goodness sake, slavery was a business, which imported Blacks into their own backyards.

How is that racist?
How many racists do you know want to import Blacks into their own backyards?

What kind of racist would want to import blacks into their back yards? Uh, the kind that see blacks a subhuman work horses whose only purpose is to serve their master. Maybe use the women preparing the meals and for the occasional rape. Get the guys out in the fields to do the grunt work. Yeah, those kind of racists DID that. You're not the sharpest tool in the shed are you?

Uh, why would Racists want to bring an inferior people into their own backyards?

Furthermore, why would they support the numbers of an inferior race to grow, in their backyards.

Wouldn't a real Racist want to avoid Blacks, rather than support them in their backyards?

The bottom-line is that Slavery was a business, it's sole purpose was to profit.

It's not a case of racism, it's a case of Capitalist greed.

The same reason people bought Black slaves to this country, is the same reason people bought Mexican illegals to this country.

It's all about mega profits.

I just explained it and you ask again? Not my problem if you can't understand

Just about all racists are against Blacks being in the U,S.

Confederate types bought Blacks here.

What's there to get about it not being racism, but rather a business?

Your having a hard time making sense aren't you? Confederate types brought Blacks here so they could own them as slaves. So they could work them, wipe them, rape them, buy them and sell them. They saw them as property. It as humans. Slavery is now illegal so all the racist douchebags don't want them here anymore. It's a disgusting act of humanity. You seem grossly unaware

 

[Slade3200]

Why can't you answer a simple question? I've asked you serveral times now and you keep diverting with overblown dramatic rhetoric.

To be clear, my arguement to you is that life matters, happiness matters, how we live our lives matter. I don't understand hateful and divisive efforts, especially over something as petty and superficial as race. We are all living together on one planet. Carry on with whatever cultural traditions from your ancestors that you hold dear, instill those values in your children and they will pass them on. But why judge what other people do and spend so much energy spreading such ugliness? What is it about "heritage" that is so important to you?

No more petty empty diversions, answer the question with a thoughtful argument and engage in intellectual debate or stop wasting my time.

So, you sound like you hate diversity.
You seem to want to destroy the diversity of the World.

Why should we destroy diverse, and unique heritages when we can humanely just enforce immigration laws?

No, race is not really superficial.
There's clear sweeping disparities between the races in intelligence.

No, you can't just explain away the disparities of intelligence by only environmental explanations.

Man, you are really struggling to give direct answers... let's stop with the foolish assumptions and just talk straight shall we?

It appears you are making the argument that you care about heratage because you don't want to water down the intellect of the human race. Is that right?

Actually I don't support anyone's heritage to vanish.

I don't support the endangered San Bushman to vanish either, even though they're not smart.

However, I most certainly am also concerned with the watering down of the intellect of Humanity as well.

So you don't want the intellect watered down and that's why you're so concerned about heritage. Ok so what do you proposed we do about it

Actually I care about heritage point blank too, you don't because you don't have real Human feelings, and sentiments.

Of course I care about heritage, I find if fascinating and have done a ton of work and research about my own families lineage. The difference between you and I is I appreciate and celebrate the diversity of my ancestors and enjoy the traditions and history that has been passed down from my family through the generations. You see that as a threat for some crazy reason that you still haven't explained.

I've asked for this explaination from you multiple times and you keep bouncing around with indirect answers about intelligence and heritage, but you fail to intelligently explain yourself or present a clear argument to defend your position. So I'll ask AGAIN. Explain why a "pure" heratiage is so important to you and what it is you want to do with society.