Rain God is offensive to Christian

[Esmeralda]

Some people take this religious nonsense way too seriously.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Guy doesn't want to spend a few bucks for a specialty plate, but he'll spend a bunch more for a lawyer and a idiotic lawsuit?

I get it now. Every license plate in Okla would feature the sculpture of the Indian and the guy who is filing a law suit says he doesn't like it and he doesn't want to shell out extra money for a plate that doesn't feature the Indian. The (left wing?) media was quick to pick up on the religious angle but he doesn't claim that his Christian beliefs are offended and the story claims he "is identified" as a Christian. Some people just like law suits and some people don't want an Indian on their license plate. Maybe the guy is offended by the violent image of an Indian shooting a weapon. I know the left wing is desperate for an issue but this ain't it.

(My bold)

Nah, the OK license plates were switched to feature an image of the Native American five years ago. Other plates, with no or some other image, are available for a fee.

The minister - the complainant - is pretty unclear, for a Methodist minister. Apparently he feels the image is religious somehow, & refuses to have it on his license. He also refuses to pay for no image or some image of his choosing. He is not merely a Christian - @ least, I assume that Methodist ministers have to take some ecclesiastical training, get the appropriate diploma, attend seminary, swear an oath, take holy orders, etc.

He doesn't seem to object to the image of an archer - but then again, I don't understand what he's objecting to. We'll just have to read the transcript, assuming this critter actually goes to trial.

It is religious, which makes it something that shouldn't be on a license plate under current law.

 

[Mr. H.]

I miss the days when license plates were license plates. Just some numbers and/or letters.

Specialty plates and vanity plates are just revenue enhancers.

Sprinkle some salt and pepper on them, and they become flavor enhancers.

But wait... call now and we'll double your order.

 

[bodecea]

I miss the days when license plates were license plates. Just some numbers and/or letters.

Specialty plates and vanity plates are just revenue enhancers.

Sprinkle some salt and pepper on them, and they become flavor enhancers.

But wait... call now and we'll double your order.

The system NY used to have made so much sense.....every five years they switched from blue plates with gold numbers/letters to gold plates with blue numbers/letters.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The image isn't of a rain god. It's of a warrior shooting an arrow into the air.

There's no problem with it.

No, it is an image of an Indian praying for rain by shooting an arrow into the air. It is no different that this picture.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Maybe a better example would be a famous statue of a woman kneeling praying to Christ. Would that be ok?

But no one, native Americans, nowadays worships a rain god. It is in the past. It is not anyone's religion. It is history, not someone else's religion. To say this is someoen else's god would be to say that if we had Zeus on a license plate, it would be another religion. No one worships the Greek gods anymore; it is part of history and no longer relevant to modern times.

This guy is making an issue out of nothing. There is no conflict between something that is no longer relevant and a current day religion.

You are making some pretty big assumptions here, aren't you? Is there some reason I should believe that no one does this anymore, other than your arrogance?

 

[Ragnar]

The image isn't of a rain god. It's of a warrior shooting an arrow into the air.

There's no problem with it.

No, it is an image of an Indian praying for rain by shooting an arrow into the air. It is no different that this picture.

Rocky Balboa?

 

[Gracie]

The image isn't of a rain god. It's of a warrior shooting an arrow into the air.

There's no problem with it.

No, it is an image of an Indian praying for rain by shooting an arrow into the air. It is no different that this picture.

Rocky Balboa?

 

[hoosier88]

...

This is what you get when you draw an indelible line around the concept that states cannot promote religion. This is, essentially, a slam dunk case for the guy under current law. The sensible thing to do is allow states to have religious symbols in public as long as they are not actually trying to make people join that religion.

(My bold)

Worse & worse. The rulings from the SC are that the state cannot establish a religion - any religion.

You can have religious symbols in public, but the state is not allowed to establish or favor any particular creed. This is what the periodic battles over the 10 Commandments in courts & public schools, creches around Christmas, etc. are about.

States should not get involved in which religions get privileged by showing up on public land. It's bad enough that the state has to certify which religions are bona fide tax-exempt agencies, because they are non-profit & carry out useful works - education, healthcare, old age homes, etc.

Adding another layer to the body of law enforcement wouldn't help anything - & would just make the states' task of not interfering in religous institutions that much more difficult.

The archer image in the OK plate isn't a priest or shaman. There is no depiction of a god, there's nothing overtly identifiable (unlike the crucifix, vaguely Franciscan robe, the posing of the interlaced hands, the attitude of genuflection in Quantam's posted image) with a specific religious orientation. In fact, the only real association with religion @ all in the OK image is the title of the statue it's based on.

 

[hoosier88]

Maybe a better example would be a famous statue of a woman kneeling praying to Christ. Would that be ok?

But no one, native Americans, nowadays worships a rain god. It is in the past. It is not anyone's religion. It is history, not someone else's religion. To say this is someoen else's god would be to say that if we had Zeus on a license plate, it would be another religion. No one worships the Greek gods anymore; it is part of history and no longer relevant to modern times.

This guy is making an issue out of nothing. There is no conflict between something that is no longer relevant and a current day religion.

(My bold)

Maybe that's the minister's motivation - he's pre-emptively attacking before everyone figures out that if one old god has been retired, maybe people will start eyeing all the current gods, too. We'll call it the Nixon Doctrine - that's how Congress finally convinced Prexy Nixon that it was time to pull an Elvis & leave the building - by gearing up to drop a test dummy (VP Agnew) through the trapdoor & hang him until dead.

Good thinking! & good on the minister - he's defending his rice bowl!

(Myself, I'd have kept quiet & not raised a fuss - after all, most people get their news from TV, & TV would have us think that the Native Peoples are all long gone, into that great happy hunting ground of summer reruns. It's dangerous - & unpredictable - to rouse people from their slumber of all these years ...)

 

[koshergrl]

Allowing symbols =/= establishing.

 

[hoosier88]

Allowing symbols =/= establishing.

(My bold)

It may be that the "religion" referred to in the image @ hand has died out, as noted previously. But I don't think the federal case even rises that far. The archer image is alleged to be a symbolic evocation of a religion, & thus its appearance on a state-required car license is a kind of establishment of a religion.

The question turns on what is the content of the symbol? Is it symbolic of an archery meet? Of the Summer Olympics archery competition? Of an artful restaging & updating of William Tell (Quentin Tarantino will be SO jealous ...)?

Or is this like porn - I can't define it, but I know what it is when I see it? The Denver Federal District court has its work cut out for it. & I suspect that they're going to dismiss the case, with prejudice. There's nothing specific attached to the image - just the title of the underlying statue that gives it a whiff of something other-Worldly.

& I don't think a whiff is actionable.

 

[koshergrl]

No, it's not.

Establishment of a religion is not a reference to a religion. They aren't the same things.

 

[TemplarKormac]

What a beautiful plate. This litigation is brought by someone who really doesn't understand Christ or his teaching.

I find this awesome. But then I'm a different sort of Christian.

Who can call this vile in the name of our Lord? Only a fool.

Its not a christian god.

If non-christians have to "respect" christians gods, why don't christians have to show the same respect to the gods of other religions?

It's like with gay people. Right wing Christians feel their "rights" are being infringed upon if they can't discriminate. I don't really hear much about that coming from the left even though the right insists it must exist.

Sure, given that the majority of secularists reside in your party, I can easily call you out for lying in that statement, dean.

 

[Dot Com]

i'd get one of those plates if I lived there.

 

[rdean]

God and Rick Perry having a "moment".

 

[Dot Com]

^ that

 

[tinydancer]

God and Rick Perry having a "moment".

Sweet Jesus you are insane.

 

[tinydancer]

^ that

You are insane as well if you liked his post.

 

[Dot Com]

Perry (R) is the poster boy for gov't sponsored religion.