Random Truths

[HappyJoy]

Switzerland has fewer households with guns than the U.S. Fewer guns per capita, even fewer when you don't count the military arms they keep in their homes that are not loaded and ammunition is kept in armories. All gun purchases require a permit They also are not allowed to buy ammunition for weapons they do not legally own. It is not legal to carry a loaded weapon unless you have a gun carry permit that is reserved for security and military personnel.

Israel isn't loose on gun control either. You have to state a purpose for owning the gun. (hunter, police officer, military, etc.) Age requirements. Such as women have to be 20, if you didn't serve in the military then it's 27. They have background checks, residency requirements, Licenses have to be renewed and you are required to take a shooting course to renew every 3 years and a psychological exam every 6. They are required to have a gun safe at home. Many gun permit requests are rejected

"... the gun-loving Swiss are not about to lay down their arms. Guns are ubiquitous in this neutral nation, with sharpshooting considered a fun and wholesome recreational activity for people of all ages.

Even though Switzerland has not been involved in an armed conflict since a standoff between Catholics and Protestants in 1847, the Swiss are very serious not only about their right to own weapons but also to carry them around in public.

Yet, despite the prevalence of guns, the violent-crime rate is low: government figures show about 0.5 gun homicides per 100,000 inhabitants in 2010."
The Swiss Difference: A Gun Culture That Works | TIME.com


So it isn't having guns that is the problem, is it.

I just went through a list. They have fewer guns and common sense laws. They don't walk around Target stores with loaded weapons, it's against the law over there unless there is a legal reason to do so, such as security.

Firearms-Control Legislation and Policy: Switzerland | Law Library of Congress

Overview

The Weapons Act contains a comprehensive regime for the licensing of the acquisition and carrying of permitted weapons; the banning of certain weapons, including automatic firearms; and the production and trade in weapons, including the reporting obligations of dealers and a registration system that covers all privately owned guns, including those acquired by inheritance, but not including hunting rifles. The federal Weapons Act is implemented by the cantons and the cantons also keep registers of privately owned guns. The provisions on ammunition are in keeping with the principles of the Act, which aims to deter abuse while permitting lawful gunownership.43]

Acquisition of Guns

An acquisition license is required primarily for handguns. Rifles and semiautomatic long arms that are customarily used by recreational hunters are exempt from the licensing requirement,44] whereas fully automatic guns are banned.45] An applicant for a weapons license must be at least eighteen years of age, may not have been placed under guardianship, may not give cause for suspicion that he would endanger himself or others with the weapon, and may not have a criminal record with a conviction for a violent crime or of several convictions for nonviolent crimes.46] The license is issued by the canton of residence of the applicant but is valid throughout Switzerland. The license is valid for six months, maximally nine months.47] It is usually valid for the acquisition of one weapon only.48]

The acquisition license is required only if a weapon is acquired from a dealer. No license is required for transactions between private individuals. Instead, these are permitted as long as the seller verifies the identity and age of the buyer by checking an official identification document and as long as he has no reason to believe that the buyer has been or should be disqualified from gun ownership. The buyer may ascertain these circumstances by requesting information from the cantonal authorities, but only if the buyer consents in writing.49]

Carrying of Guns

The carrying of a gun for defensive purposes requires a carrying license, which will be granted only if the applicant is qualified to acquire guns; demonstrates a need for the weapon to protect himself, others, or property against existing dangers; and has passed an exam to test his required theoretical knowledge and practical skill.50] The theoretical exam tests knowledge of

• criminal provisions on violent crimes and self-defense, and necessity as a justification or excuse;
• federal and cantonal weapons law provisions;
• types of weapons and ammunition; and
• security measures and proper conduct when carrying weapons.51]

The practical examination tests the applicant’s skill in handling the weapon, including loading, unloading, operating the safety device, and shooting.52]

A carrying license permits the concealed carrying of a handgun.53] No carrying license is required for the transporting of an unloaded weapon for legitimate purposes, such as travel to and from the shooting range or hunting environment, as long as the ammunition is kept separate from the weapon.54]

Prepared by Edith Palmer, Chief,
Foreign, Comparative, and
International Law Division II
February 2013

"....the Swiss are very serious not only about their right to own weapons but also to carry them around in public. Because of this general acceptance and even pride in gun ownership, nobody bats an eye at the sight of a civilian riding a bus, bike or motorcycle to the shooting range, with a rifle slung across the shoulder."
Ibid.

Imagine how different the situation at the community college might have been had the students been allowed to "carry them around in public" instead of having been made sitting ducks by the absurd and dangerous Liberal "Gun Free Zone" policy.

PC hop on a plane and go to Switzerland, besides being incredibly beautiful you will get informed that while guns are prevalent, you will not see them everywhere like in Israel, only militia members are allowed to carry their guns in public and are never allowed to be loaded and you will also find that ammunition is held by the town and only 2000 militia members have ammo at home and it is sealed and inspected regularly. So whatever your stupid point is it doesn't make a whit of sense (as usual).

Did you miss my point?

Imagine how different the situation at the community college might have been had the students been allowed to "carry them around in public" instead of having been made sitting ducks by the absurd and dangerous Liberal "Gun Free Zone" policy.

What? They don't walk around with loaded guns, with the exception of military and security personnel. What the fuck are you talking about?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

More truth:

"Principle is nothing to liberals. Winning is everything."


If gun ownership is the problem...explain Israel and Switzerland, where everyone has one.

Switzerland has fewer households with guns than the U.S. Fewer guns per capita, even fewer when you don't count the military arms they keep in their homes that are not loaded and ammunition is kept in armories. All gun purchases require a permit They also are not allowed to buy ammunition for weapons they do not legally own. It is not legal to carry a loaded weapon unless you have a gun carry permit that is reserved for security and military personnel.

Israel isn't loose on gun control either. You have to state a purpose for owning the gun. (hunter, police officer, military, etc.) Age requirements. Such as women have to be 20, if you didn't serve in the military then it's 27. They have background checks, residency requirements, Licenses have to be renewed and you are required to take a shooting course to renew every 3 years and a psychological exam every 6. They are required to have a gun safe at home. Many gun permit requests are rejected

"... the gun-loving Swiss are not about to lay down their arms. Guns are ubiquitous in this neutral nation, with sharpshooting considered a fun and wholesome recreational activity for people of all ages.

Even though Switzerland has not been involved in an armed conflict since a standoff between Catholics and Protestants in 1847, the Swiss are very serious not only about their right to own weapons but also to carry them around in public.

Yet, despite the prevalence of guns, the violent-crime rate is low: government figures show about 0.5 gun homicides per 100,000 inhabitants in 2010."
The Swiss Difference: A Gun Culture That Works | TIME.com


So it isn't having guns that is the problem, is it.

I just went through a list. They have fewer guns and common sense laws. They don't walk around Target stores with loaded weapons, it's against the law over there unless there is a legal reason to do so, such as security.

Firearms-Control Legislation and Policy: Switzerland | Law Library of Congress

Overview

The Weapons Act contains a comprehensive regime for the licensing of the acquisition and carrying of permitted weapons; the banning of certain weapons, including automatic firearms; and the production and trade in weapons, including the reporting obligations of dealers and a registration system that covers all privately owned guns, including those acquired by inheritance, but not including hunting rifles. The federal Weapons Act is implemented by the cantons and the cantons also keep registers of privately owned guns. The provisions on ammunition are in keeping with the principles of the Act, which aims to deter abuse while permitting lawful gunownership.43]

Acquisition of Guns

An acquisition license is required primarily for handguns. Rifles and semiautomatic long arms that are customarily used by recreational hunters are exempt from the licensing requirement,44] whereas fully automatic guns are banned.45] An applicant for a weapons license must be at least eighteen years of age, may not have been placed under guardianship, may not give cause for suspicion that he would endanger himself or others with the weapon, and may not have a criminal record with a conviction for a violent crime or of several convictions for nonviolent crimes.46] The license is issued by the canton of residence of the applicant but is valid throughout Switzerland. The license is valid for six months, maximally nine months.47] It is usually valid for the acquisition of one weapon only.48]

The acquisition license is required only if a weapon is acquired from a dealer. No license is required for transactions between private individuals. Instead, these are permitted as long as the seller verifies the identity and age of the buyer by checking an official identification document and as long as he has no reason to believe that the buyer has been or should be disqualified from gun ownership. The buyer may ascertain these circumstances by requesting information from the cantonal authorities, but only if the buyer consents in writing.49]

Carrying of Guns

The carrying of a gun for defensive purposes requires a carrying license, which will be granted only if the applicant is qualified to acquire guns; demonstrates a need for the weapon to protect himself, others, or property against existing dangers; and has passed an exam to test his required theoretical knowledge and practical skill.50] The theoretical exam tests knowledge of

• criminal provisions on violent crimes and self-defense, and necessity as a justification or excuse;
• federal and cantonal weapons law provisions;
• types of weapons and ammunition; and
• security measures and proper conduct when carrying weapons.51]

The practical examination tests the applicant’s skill in handling the weapon, including loading, unloading, operating the safety device, and shooting.52]

A carrying license permits the concealed carrying of a handgun.53] No carrying license is required for the transporting of an unloaded weapon for legitimate purposes, such as travel to and from the shooting range or hunting environment, as long as the ammunition is kept separate from the weapon.54]

Prepared by Edith Palmer, Chief,
Foreign, Comparative, and
International Law Division II
February 2013

"....the Swiss are very serious not only about their right to own weapons but also to carry them around in public. Because of this general acceptance and even pride in gun ownership, nobody bats an eye at the sight of a civilian riding a bus, bike or motorcycle to the shooting range, with a rifle slung across the shoulder."
Ibid.

Imagine how different the situation at the community college might have been had the students been allowed to "carry them around in public" instead of having been made sitting ducks by the absurd and dangerous Liberal "Gun Free Zone" policy.

"Transporting guns
Guns may be transported in public as long as an appropriate justification is present. This means to transport a gun in public, the following requirements apply:

• The ammunition must be separated from the gun, no ammunition in a magazine.
• The transport needs to be as direct as possible and needs a valid purpose:
  • For courses or exercises hosted by marksmanship, hunting or military organisations,
  • To an army warehouse and back,
  • To show the gun to a friend or a possible buyer
  • To and from a holder of a valid arms trade permit,
  • To and from a specific event, e.g. gun shows.[8]"
  Gun politics in Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Wry Catcher]

More truth:

"Principle is nothing to liberals. Winning is everything."


If gun ownership is the problem...explain Israel and Switzerland, where everyone has one.

Switzerland has fewer households with guns than the U.S. Fewer guns per capita, even fewer when you don't count the military arms they keep in their homes that are not loaded and ammunition is kept in armories. All gun purchases require a permit They also are not allowed to buy ammunition for weapons they do not legally own. It is not legal to carry a loaded weapon unless you have a gun carry permit that is reserved for security and military personnel.

Israel isn't loose on gun control either. You have to state a purpose for owning the gun. (hunter, police officer, military, etc.) Age requirements. Such as women have to be 20, if you didn't serve in the military then it's 27. They have background checks, residency requirements, Licenses have to be renewed and you are required to take a shooting course to renew every 3 years and a psychological exam every 6. They are required to have a gun safe at home. Many gun permit requests are rejected

"... the gun-loving Swiss are not about to lay down their arms. Guns are ubiquitous in this neutral nation, with sharpshooting considered a fun and wholesome recreational activity for people of all ages.

Even though Switzerland has not been involved in an armed conflict since a standoff between Catholics and Protestants in 1847, the Swiss are very serious not only about their right to own weapons but also to carry them around in public.

Yet, despite the prevalence of guns, the violent-crime rate is low: government figures show about 0.5 gun homicides per 100,000 inhabitants in 2010."
The Swiss Difference: A Gun Culture That Works | TIME.com


So it isn't having guns that is the problem, is it.

I just went through a list. They have fewer guns and common sense laws. They don't walk around Target stores with loaded weapons, it's against the law over there unless there is a legal reason to do so, such as security.

Firearms-Control Legislation and Policy: Switzerland | Law Library of Congress

Overview

The Weapons Act contains a comprehensive regime for the licensing of the acquisition and carrying of permitted weapons; the banning of certain weapons, including automatic firearms; and the production and trade in weapons, including the reporting obligations of dealers and a registration system that covers all privately owned guns, including those acquired by inheritance, but not including hunting rifles. The federal Weapons Act is implemented by the cantons and the cantons also keep registers of privately owned guns. The provisions on ammunition are in keeping with the principles of the Act, which aims to deter abuse while permitting lawful gunownership.43]

Acquisition of Guns

An acquisition license is required primarily for handguns. Rifles and semiautomatic long arms that are customarily used by recreational hunters are exempt from the licensing requirement,44] whereas fully automatic guns are banned.45] An applicant for a weapons license must be at least eighteen years of age, may not have been placed under guardianship, may not give cause for suspicion that he would endanger himself or others with the weapon, and may not have a criminal record with a conviction for a violent crime or of several convictions for nonviolent crimes.46] The license is issued by the canton of residence of the applicant but is valid throughout Switzerland. The license is valid for six months, maximally nine months.47] It is usually valid for the acquisition of one weapon only.48]

The acquisition license is required only if a weapon is acquired from a dealer. No license is required for transactions between private individuals. Instead, these are permitted as long as the seller verifies the identity and age of the buyer by checking an official identification document and as long as he has no reason to believe that the buyer has been or should be disqualified from gun ownership. The buyer may ascertain these circumstances by requesting information from the cantonal authorities, but only if the buyer consents in writing.49]

Carrying of Guns

The carrying of a gun for defensive purposes requires a carrying license, which will be granted only if the applicant is qualified to acquire guns; demonstrates a need for the weapon to protect himself, others, or property against existing dangers; and has passed an exam to test his required theoretical knowledge and practical skill.50] The theoretical exam tests knowledge of

• criminal provisions on violent crimes and self-defense, and necessity as a justification or excuse;
• federal and cantonal weapons law provisions;
• types of weapons and ammunition; and
• security measures and proper conduct when carrying weapons.51]

The practical examination tests the applicant’s skill in handling the weapon, including loading, unloading, operating the safety device, and shooting.52]

A carrying license permits the concealed carrying of a handgun.53] No carrying license is required for the transporting of an unloaded weapon for legitimate purposes, such as travel to and from the shooting range or hunting environment, as long as the ammunition is kept separate from the weapon.54]

Prepared by Edith Palmer, Chief,
Foreign, Comparative, and
International Law Division II
February 2013

"....the Swiss are very serious not only about their right to own weapons but also to carry them around in public. Because of this general acceptance and even pride in gun ownership, nobody bats an eye at the sight of a civilian riding a bus, bike or motorcycle to the shooting range, with a rifle slung across the shoulder."
Ibid.

Imagine how different the situation at the community college might have been had the students been allowed to "carry them around in public" instead of having been made sitting ducks by the absurd and dangerous Liberal "Gun Free Zone" policy.

More truth:

"Principle is nothing to liberals. Winning is everything."


If gun ownership is the problem...explain Israel and Switzerland, where everyone has one.

Switzerland has fewer households with guns than the U.S. Fewer guns per capita, even fewer when you don't count the military arms they keep in their homes that are not loaded and ammunition is kept in armories. All gun purchases require a permit They also are not allowed to buy ammunition for weapons they do not legally own. It is not legal to carry a loaded weapon unless you have a gun carry permit that is reserved for security and military personnel.

Israel isn't loose on gun control either. You have to state a purpose for owning the gun. (hunter, police officer, military, etc.) Age requirements. Such as women have to be 20, if you didn't serve in the military then it's 27. They have background checks, residency requirements, Licenses have to be renewed and you are required to take a shooting course to renew every 3 years and a psychological exam every 6. They are required to have a gun safe at home. Many gun permit requests are rejected

"... the gun-loving Swiss are not about to lay down their arms. Guns are ubiquitous in this neutral nation, with sharpshooting considered a fun and wholesome recreational activity for people of all ages.

Even though Switzerland has not been involved in an armed conflict since a standoff between Catholics and Protestants in 1847, the Swiss are very serious not only about their right to own weapons but also to carry them around in public.

Yet, despite the prevalence of guns, the violent-crime rate is low: government figures show about 0.5 gun homicides per 100,000 inhabitants in 2010."
The Swiss Difference: A Gun Culture That Works | TIME.com


So it isn't having guns that is the problem, is it.

I just went through a list. They have fewer guns and common sense laws. They don't walk around Target stores with loaded weapons, it's against the law over there unless there is a legal reason to do so, such as security.

Firearms-Control Legislation and Policy: Switzerland | Law Library of Congress

Overview

The Weapons Act contains a comprehensive regime for the licensing of the acquisition and carrying of permitted weapons; the banning of certain weapons, including automatic firearms; and the production and trade in weapons, including the reporting obligations of dealers and a registration system that covers all privately owned guns, including those acquired by inheritance, but not including hunting rifles. The federal Weapons Act is implemented by the cantons and the cantons also keep registers of privately owned guns. The provisions on ammunition are in keeping with the principles of the Act, which aims to deter abuse while permitting lawful gunownership.43]

Acquisition of Guns

An acquisition license is required primarily for handguns. Rifles and semiautomatic long arms that are customarily used by recreational hunters are exempt from the licensing requirement,44] whereas fully automatic guns are banned.45] An applicant for a weapons license must be at least eighteen years of age, may not have been placed under guardianship, may not give cause for suspicion that he would endanger himself or others with the weapon, and may not have a criminal record with a conviction for a violent crime or of several convictions for nonviolent crimes.46] The license is issued by the canton of residence of the applicant but is valid throughout Switzerland. The license is valid for six months, maximally nine months.47] It is usually valid for the acquisition of one weapon only.48]

The acquisition license is required only if a weapon is acquired from a dealer. No license is required for transactions between private individuals. Instead, these are permitted as long as the seller verifies the identity and age of the buyer by checking an official identification document and as long as he has no reason to believe that the buyer has been or should be disqualified from gun ownership. The buyer may ascertain these circumstances by requesting information from the cantonal authorities, but only if the buyer consents in writing.49]

Carrying of Guns

The carrying of a gun for defensive purposes requires a carrying license, which will be granted only if the applicant is qualified to acquire guns; demonstrates a need for the weapon to protect himself, others, or property against existing dangers; and has passed an exam to test his required theoretical knowledge and practical skill.50] The theoretical exam tests knowledge of

• criminal provisions on violent crimes and self-defense, and necessity as a justification or excuse;
• federal and cantonal weapons law provisions;
• types of weapons and ammunition; and
• security measures and proper conduct when carrying weapons.51]

The practical examination tests the applicant’s skill in handling the weapon, including loading, unloading, operating the safety device, and shooting.52]

A carrying license permits the concealed carrying of a handgun.53] No carrying license is required for the transporting of an unloaded weapon for legitimate purposes, such as travel to and from the shooting range or hunting environment, as long as the ammunition is kept separate from the weapon.54]

Prepared by Edith Palmer, Chief,
Foreign, Comparative, and
International Law Division II
February 2013

"....the Swiss are very serious not only about their right to own weapons but also to carry them around in public. Because of this general acceptance and even pride in gun ownership, nobody bats an eye at the sight of a civilian riding a bus, bike or motorcycle to the shooting range, with a rifle slung across the shoulder."
Ibid.

Imagine how different the situation at the community college might have been had the students been allowed to "carry them around in public" instead of having been made sitting ducks by the absurd and dangerous Liberal "Gun Free Zone" policy.

Gee, a narcissist with a gun fetish... but I digress.

Well, everything posted above by HapyJoy on gun control in Switzerland you ignored, and everyone of them would be considered to infringe the rights of gun owners, as the NRA sees it, and they have convinced its most biddable members that the Second is sacrosanct.

To answer your question, there are several scenarios which occur to me:

1. The shooter is shot dead by a student with a gun.
2. The shooter is shot dead and a third armed student sees the action and shoots the student.
3. An armed student or teacher hears a gun shot, sees the student holding the gun and shoots the student.
4. The Student with the gun misses and his/her round goes through a wall and kills another student, or in panic the student fires four or five quick rounds missing the shooter killing or injuring other students.
5. The shooter shoots first, kill the student with the gun and a second student - unfamiliar with firearms - picks up the gun and in panic begins shooting blind.
7. The shooter hides in a tree and shoots a student or two. Lots of students with guns begin shooting at lots of students with guns in a fire fight, each believing those shooting were terrorists.
8. Two students with guns see a shooter kill a student and fire on the shooter, other armed students fire on each of the students they see with a gun and a fire fight ensues which leave dozens of students, armed and not, wounded or dead.

 

[nuhuh]

"... the gun-loving Swiss are not about to lay down their arms. Guns are ubiquitous in this neutral nation, with sharpshooting considered a fun and wholesome recreational activity for people of all ages.

Even though Switzerland has not been involved in an armed conflict since a standoff between Catholics and Protestants in 1847, the Swiss are very serious not only about their right to own weapons but also to carry them around in public.

Yet, despite the prevalence of guns, the violent-crime rate is low: government figures show about 0.5 gun homicides per 100,000 inhabitants in 2010."
The Swiss Difference: A Gun Culture That Works | TIME.com


So it isn't having guns that is the problem, is it.

I just went through a list. They have fewer guns and common sense laws. They don't walk around Target stores with loaded weapons, it's against the law over there unless there is a legal reason to do so, such as security.

Firearms-Control Legislation and Policy: Switzerland | Law Library of Congress

Overview

The Weapons Act contains a comprehensive regime for the licensing of the acquisition and carrying of permitted weapons; the banning of certain weapons, including automatic firearms; and the production and trade in weapons, including the reporting obligations of dealers and a registration system that covers all privately owned guns, including those acquired by inheritance, but not including hunting rifles. The federal Weapons Act is implemented by the cantons and the cantons also keep registers of privately owned guns. The provisions on ammunition are in keeping with the principles of the Act, which aims to deter abuse while permitting lawful gunownership.43]

Acquisition of Guns

An acquisition license is required primarily for handguns. Rifles and semiautomatic long arms that are customarily used by recreational hunters are exempt from the licensing requirement,44] whereas fully automatic guns are banned.45] An applicant for a weapons license must be at least eighteen years of age, may not have been placed under guardianship, may not give cause for suspicion that he would endanger himself or others with the weapon, and may not have a criminal record with a conviction for a violent crime or of several convictions for nonviolent crimes.46] The license is issued by the canton of residence of the applicant but is valid throughout Switzerland. The license is valid for six months, maximally nine months.47] It is usually valid for the acquisition of one weapon only.48]

The acquisition license is required only if a weapon is acquired from a dealer. No license is required for transactions between private individuals. Instead, these are permitted as long as the seller verifies the identity and age of the buyer by checking an official identification document and as long as he has no reason to believe that the buyer has been or should be disqualified from gun ownership. The buyer may ascertain these circumstances by requesting information from the cantonal authorities, but only if the buyer consents in writing.49]

Carrying of Guns

The carrying of a gun for defensive purposes requires a carrying license, which will be granted only if the applicant is qualified to acquire guns; demonstrates a need for the weapon to protect himself, others, or property against existing dangers; and has passed an exam to test his required theoretical knowledge and practical skill.50] The theoretical exam tests knowledge of

• criminal provisions on violent crimes and self-defense, and necessity as a justification or excuse;
• federal and cantonal weapons law provisions;
• types of weapons and ammunition; and
• security measures and proper conduct when carrying weapons.51]

The practical examination tests the applicant’s skill in handling the weapon, including loading, unloading, operating the safety device, and shooting.52]

A carrying license permits the concealed carrying of a handgun.53] No carrying license is required for the transporting of an unloaded weapon for legitimate purposes, such as travel to and from the shooting range or hunting environment, as long as the ammunition is kept separate from the weapon.54]

Prepared by Edith Palmer, Chief,
Foreign, Comparative, and
International Law Division II
February 2013

"....the Swiss are very serious not only about their right to own weapons but also to carry them around in public. Because of this general acceptance and even pride in gun ownership, nobody bats an eye at the sight of a civilian riding a bus, bike or motorcycle to the shooting range, with a rifle slung across the shoulder."
Ibid.

Imagine how different the situation at the community college might have been had the students been allowed to "carry them around in public" instead of having been made sitting ducks by the absurd and dangerous Liberal "Gun Free Zone" policy.

PC hop on a plane and go to Switzerland, besides being incredibly beautiful you will get informed that while guns are prevalent, you will not see them everywhere like in Israel, only militia members are allowed to carry their guns in public and are never allowed to be loaded and you will also find that ammunition is held by the town and only 2000 militia members have ammo at home and it is sealed and inspected regularly. So whatever your stupid point is it doesn't make a whit of sense (as usual).

Did you miss my point?

Imagine how different the situation at the community college might have been had the students been allowed to "carry them around in public" instead of having been made sitting ducks by the absurd and dangerous Liberal "Gun Free Zone" policy.

What? They don't walk around with loaded guns, with the exception of military and security personnel. What the fuck are you talking about?

Yep and Switzerland has 100% gun registration and full background checks.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Gun control seems to be working there, quite well as a matter of fact. And it works far better in Japan...

 

[PaintMyHouse]

"Prof Killias cannot hide his anger with those in America who use Switzerland to illustrate their argument that more gun ownership would deter or stop violence.

"We don't have a gun culture!" he snaps, waving his hand dismissively.

"I'm always amazed how the National Rifle Association in America points to Switzerland - they make it sound as if it was part of southern Texas!" he says.

"We have guns at home, but they are kept for peaceful purposes. There is no point taking the gun out of your home in Switzerland because it is illegal to carry a gun in the street. To shoot someone who just looks at you in a funny way - this is not Swiss culture!"
Switzerland guns: Living with firearms the Swiss way - BBC News

And...

"But over the last 20 years, now that the majority of soldiers don't have ammunition at home, we have seen a decrease in gun violence and a dramatic decrease in gun-related suicides. Today we see maybe 200 gun suicides per year and it used to be 400, 20 years ago. "

 

[SAYIT]

You quote a lot of things but you show nothing

It's quite simple, government is funded by taxes. If you have a progressive tax system and replace that with a flat tax system that means the poor pay more and the rich less and that inceases income inequality. Unless you're an anarchist and want to abolish government of course, then you don't need taxes anymore.

Nothing wrong with supporting that, just don't be so hypocritical about it. Just admit that you love the 1% and hate the poor.

You may not being looking at this question from the proper angle, first off understand that "the rich" absolutely LOVE our current tax system and why wouldn't they? they created it. They have the money, power and connections to basically write any tax system they want, what they've done is created a system that is so full of loopholes, exemptions and credits that only they have the means to engage the necessary legion of lawyers to take full advantage of it, they also get the added bonus of being able to point to top marginal rates (which they never pay) and say "See! look at how high our income tax rates are!". Proponents of so-called "progressive taxation" in the name of fairness are actually advocating a system that is designed to be anything but "fair", it's a system that the average tax payer can never in their wildest dreams play on a level playing field in and it's a system that treats their dollars as less valuable then the dollars earned by those farther up the economic ladder.

A flat tax on the other hand is far more expensive for "the rich" in terms of real dollars, goodbye loopholes, goodbye exemptions, goodbye credits, goodbye playing games with income timelines, goodbye economic behavior manipulation, that's not what they want because it's actually "fair" since it treats every dollar they make exactly the same as every dollar everybody else makes. As far as the poor go it would be counter productive to tax their income at all, people below the poverty line require a flat income tax rate of 0% since taxing their income is a roadblock to getting them to where everybody wants them to be (above the poverty line). Keep in mind that if "the rich" really wanted a flat tax system, we'd have a flat tax system post haste because they're the ones that are really calling the shots right now but they don't want it which is the reason that we probably aren't ever going to get it.

Lastly just imagine what we could do without having to waste the billions of man hours that go into tax preparation & enforcement every year, if that labor actually went into something PRODUCTIVE.

While I don't agree that "the rich" prefer our current tax system or that they effectively write our tax laws, I do agree that a simplified system would free many hours for more productive work or leisure.

"The rich" - those earning over $450,000/yr (fewer than 2% of American households) - currently pay 46% of all personal income tax collected by the US Treasury.

Pretending our progressive tax system benefits "the rich" is disingenuous at best.

 

[NightFox]

I can't believe the anti 2nd Amendment crowd has not come up with a less fallacious argument after all this time than taking countries with a fraction of our population, nowhere near as much diversity, without a comparable legal system, different cultures and traditions from our own and somehow think comparing their rates of gun violence to ours makes their point, while you guys are at it why don't you just go ahead and compare the rates of gun violence on Mars to that of the United States? it's about as applicable.

As an alternative you could engage in an exercise that's actually meaningful like say, comparing localities within the U.S. that have stricter gun laws with localities that are less restrictive and then going the extra nine yards and looking at what specifically those laws entail, an exercise which actually *might* yield strategies that have a snowballs chance in hell of accomplishing something meaningful (after all isn't that part of what our "laboratories of democracy" are for?). Since such an exercise conducted by the anti 2nd Amendment advocates is not likely to be forthcoming anytime soon one must assume that you aren't all that interested in solving "the problem" and are simply engaged in jaw flapping for the sake of jaw flapping.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I can't believe the anti 2nd Amendment crowd has not come up with a less fallacious argument after all this time than taking countries with a fraction of our population, nowhere near as much diversity, without a comparable legal system, different cultures and traditions from our own and somehow think comparing their rates of gun violence to ours makes their point, while you guys are at it why don't you just go ahead and compare the rates of gun violence on Mars to that of the United States? it's about as applicable.

As an alternative you could engage in an exercise that's actually meaningful like say, comparing localities within the U.S. that have stricter gun laws with localities that are less restrictive and then going the extra nine yards and looking at what specifically those laws entail, an exercise which actually *might* yield strategies that have a snowballs chance in hell of accomplishing something meaningful (after all isn't that part of what our "laboratories of democracy" are for?). Since such an exercise conducted by the anti 2nd Amendment advocates is not likely to be forthcoming anytime soon one must assume that you aren't all that interested in solving "the problem" and are simply engaged in jaw flapping for the sake of jaw flapping.

The Other Nations part came from the Pro-Gun side. Other than that you're doing just great...

 

[HappyJoy]

I can't believe the anti 2nd Amendment crowd has not come up with a less fallacious argument after all this time than taking countries with a fraction of our population, nowhere near as much diversity, without a comparable legal system, different cultures and traditions from our own and somehow think comparing their rates of gun violence to ours makes their point, while you guys are at it why don't you just go ahead and compare the rates of gun violence on Mars to that of the United States? it's about as applicable.

As an alternative you could engage in an exercise that's actually meaningful like say, comparing localities within the U.S. that have stricter gun laws with localities that are less restrictive and then going the extra nine yards and looking at what specifically those laws entail, an exercise which actually *might* yield strategies that have a snowballs chance in hell of accomplishing something meaningful (after all isn't that part of what our "laboratories of democracy" are for?). Since such an exercise conducted by the anti 2nd Amendment advocates is not likely to be forthcoming anytime soon one must assume that you aren't all that interested in solving "the problem" and are simply engaged in jaw flapping for the sake of jaw flapping.

Actually it was a conservative who didn't understand those countries gun laws who brought the subject up, get it right.

 

[Rustic]

Progressive is just that, the naïveté of childish reasonings.

Progressivism is all about envy, revenge, getting even, frivolous punishment, control, racism, selective outrage, deflection, and elitism.

Embrace the suck

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Progressive is just that, the naïveté of childish reasonings.

Progressivism all about envy, revenge, getting even, frivolous punishment, control, racism, selective outrage, deflection, and elitism.

Embrace the suck

Tell you what, in what year (or well-defined period) was this nation what you believe it should be?

And, what nation on earth currently is closest to what the US should be?

 

[NightFox]

I can't believe the anti 2nd Amendment crowd has not come up with a less fallacious argument after all this time than taking countries with a fraction of our population, nowhere near as much diversity, without a comparable legal system, different cultures and traditions from our own and somehow think comparing their rates of gun violence to ours makes their point, while you guys are at it why don't you just go ahead and compare the rates of gun violence on Mars to that of the United States? it's about as applicable.

As an alternative you could engage in an exercise that's actually meaningful like say, comparing localities within the U.S. that have stricter gun laws with localities that are less restrictive and then going the extra nine yards and looking at what specifically those laws entail, an exercise which actually *might* yield strategies that have a snowballs chance in hell of accomplishing something meaningful (after all isn't that part of what our "laboratories of democracy" are for?). Since such an exercise conducted by the anti 2nd Amendment advocates is not likely to be forthcoming anytime soon one must assume that you aren't all that interested in solving "the problem" and are simply engaged in jaw flapping for the sake of jaw flapping.

Actually it was a conservative who didn't understand those countries gun laws who brought the subject up, get it right.

So ..er..ummm.. let me get this straight, Supergirl wound you and pushed your button and you of course had no choice other than to pursue this flawed line of reasoning? Wow, my hats off to her (him?) way to manipulate your opposition PoliticalChic!

 

[Rustic]

Progressive is just that, the naïveté of childish reasonings.

Progressivism all about envy, revenge, getting even, frivolous punishment, control, racism, selective outrage, deflection, and elitism.

Embrace the suck

Tell you what, in what year (or well-defined period) was this nation what you believe it should be?

And, what nation on earth currently is closest to what the US should be?

It should be different... Sadly it's not anymore.

Hashtag neutered

 

[HappyJoy]

I can't believe the anti 2nd Amendment crowd has not come up with a less fallacious argument after all this time than taking countries with a fraction of our population, nowhere near as much diversity, without a comparable legal system, different cultures and traditions from our own and somehow think comparing their rates of gun violence to ours makes their point, while you guys are at it why don't you just go ahead and compare the rates of gun violence on Mars to that of the United States? it's about as applicable.

As an alternative you could engage in an exercise that's actually meaningful like say, comparing localities within the U.S. that have stricter gun laws with localities that are less restrictive and then going the extra nine yards and looking at what specifically those laws entail, an exercise which actually *might* yield strategies that have a snowballs chance in hell of accomplishing something meaningful (after all isn't that part of what our "laboratories of democracy" are for?). Since such an exercise conducted by the anti 2nd Amendment advocates is not likely to be forthcoming anytime soon one must assume that you aren't all that interested in solving "the problem" and are simply engaged in jaw flapping for the sake of jaw flapping.

Actually it was a conservative who didn't understand those countries gun laws who brought the subject up, get it right.

So ..er..ummm.. let me get this straight, Supergirl wound you and pushed your button and you of course had no choice other than to pursue this flawed line of reasoning? Wow, my hats off to her (him?) way to manipulate your opposition PoliticalChic!

Your criticism is with her for bringing it up and then doubling and tripling down.

Actually, this entire thread of Random Thoughts appears to be SC's masochistic fantasy come true. She has taken a beating.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Progressive is just that, the naïveté of childish reasonings.

Progressivism all about envy, revenge, getting even, frivolous punishment, control, racism, selective outrage, deflection, and elitism.

Embrace the suck

Tell you what, in what year (or well-defined period) was this nation what you believe it should be?

And, what nation on earth currently is closest to what the US should be?

It should be different... Sadly it's not anymore.

Hashtag neutered

So, you have no idea when it was the country you want or any idea what nation on earth is like what you want? Got it.

 

[Wry Catcher]

You quote a lot of things but you show nothing

It's quite simple, government is funded by taxes. If you have a progressive tax system and replace that with a flat tax system that means the poor pay more and the rich less and that inceases income inequality. Unless you're an anarchist and want to abolish government of course, then you don't need taxes anymore.

Nothing wrong with supporting that, just don't be so hypocritical about it. Just admit that you love the 1% and hate the poor.

You may not being looking at this question from the proper angle, first off understand that "the rich" absolutely LOVE our current tax system and why wouldn't they? they created it. They have the money, power and connections to basically write any tax system they want, what they've done is created a system that is so full of loopholes, exemptions and credits that only they have the means to engage the necessary legion of lawyers to take full advantage of it, they also get the added bonus of being able to point to top marginal rates (which they never pay) and say "See! look at how high our income tax rates are!". Proponents of so-called "progressive taxation" in the name of fairness are actually advocating a system that is designed to be anything but "fair", it's a system that the average tax payer can never in their wildest dreams play on a level playing field in and it's a system that treats their dollars as less valuable then the dollars earned by those farther up the economic ladder.

A flat tax on the other hand is far more expensive for "the rich" in terms of real dollars, goodbye loopholes, goodbye exemptions, goodbye credits, goodbye playing games with income timelines, goodbye economic behavior manipulation, that's not what they want because it's actually "fair" since it treats every dollar they make exactly the same as every dollar everybody else makes. As far as the poor go it would be counter productive to tax their income at all, people below the poverty line require a flat income tax rate of 0% since taxing their income is a roadblock to getting them to where everybody wants them to be (above the poverty line). Keep in mind that if "the rich" really wanted a flat tax system, we'd have a flat tax system post haste because they're the ones that are really calling the shots right now but they don't want it which is the reason that we probably aren't ever going to get it.

Lastly just imagine what we could do without having to waste the billions of man hours that go into tax preparation & enforcement every year, if that labor actually went into something PRODUCTIVE.

While I don't agree that "the rich" prefer our current tax system or that they effectively write our tax laws, I do agree that a simplified system would free many hours for more productive work or leisure.

"The rich" - those earning over $450,000/yr (fewer than 2% of American households) - currently pay 46% of all personal income tax collected by the US Treasury.

Pretending our progressive tax system benefits "the rich" is disingenuous at best.

Pretending those who pay 46% of their income is unfair(?) is a half-truth as well as a lie of omission. Why, I'll let you answer:

Would you prefer to receive in Salary $1,000,000 and keep 54% of it, or to earn $50,000 and keep 85% of it?

Of course you would like to keep 85% of the million, and in short order we would make the transition from a democratic republic (or what's left of ours) into a pure plutocracy (which the current Supreme Court five member conservative majority has already paved the road for such a course).

 

[NightFox]

Your criticism is with her for bringing it up and then doubling and tripling down.
.

No criticism at all, she (he?) chucked a shiny on the ground and you all went for it like it was the last piece of meat on the bone, I'm actually quite entertained by it (not making fun of you or anything, just laughing at the situation).

 

[HappyJoy]

46% income tax rate? Who pays that?

 

[HappyJoy]

Your criticism is with her for bringing it up and then doubling and tripling down.
.

No criticism at all, she (he?) chucked a shiny on the ground and you all went for it like it was the last piece of meat on the bone, I'm actually quite entertained by it (not making fun of you or anything, just laughing at the situation).

Ohhhhh, I thought you were going to have a point or something.