Reagan & Conservatives -- Revisonist History 101

[thanatos144]

Joe is confusing progressivism with capitalism

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Joe is confusing progressivism with capitalism

Joe used to be a Republican, ya know

 

[Oldstyle]

[Don't be an idiot Joe. The entire premise of capitalism is making money as well as losing it. Because it, like everything else is cyclical and money is lost and won, and because you're a loser is not tantamount to the collapse of capitalism. I don't recall capitalism being abandoned following the Great Depression and I don't seeing being abandoned now. Not even the left is that stupid, although you certainly are.

Actually, it was abandoned during the Great Depression. That's why we got the new deal and the SEC and the FDIC and the FSLIC and all the other agencies to keep the Capitalists from fucking shit up with their greed.

Then in the 1980's, they convinced a senile old actor to become president and dismantle some of these very sensible rules.

Resulting in the 1989 crash and then the bigger, badder 2008 crash.

Some of you people just never learn.

The problems that we face right now can be traced in large part right back to FDR and his New Deal. It isn't capitalists and their greed that threaten our solvency...it's an out of control, cradle to the grave, entitlement society where more people take from the system than put back into the system. THAT is what is killing this country. It's not just that there isn't any way to pay for what we've obligated ourselves to...it's that progressives like yourself who believe in "fairness" have sapped America of the one thing that had always made it stronger than anyone else...the American people's self reliance. The United States of America isn't floundering because Reagan cut regulations...it's floundering because people like you have convinced a large percentage of the US population that someone else OWES them a roof over their heads, food on their table and money in their pocket even if they don't feel like getting off of their couch.

 

[bendog]

So, if one pays social security and medicare taxes throughout their lives until retirement, and then expects to benefit, this scheme is "sapping" America of self-reliance?

I would agree that disibility for adults and medicaid for kids in special education is more and more a bad joke.

 

[thanatos144]

Joe is confusing progressivism with capitalism

Joe used to be a Republican, ya know

And unicorns fart skittles.

 

[JoeB131]

Capitalism does not include many things, like welfare state for example. As with all things, modification are made for the common good. Free markets and private property, the cornerstones of capitalism, have survived. Only fools like communists would attempt to change it, especially in view of the dismal failure of other economic systems which try to divorce people form their instincts.

The problem with your argument is that "Free Markets" and "Private Property" are illusions.

If you are dumping cyanide in your water supply to produce a cancer causing product you are selling as kiddie toys, guess what, people are probably going to put a stop to that, pretty quickly, and long before your beloved "Market" does.

Very stupid retort, but par for the course. Just how stupid are you Joey?

Your lack of a response is duly noted.

Here's a hint. There are no rights. THere is no Private Property. There is only what the rest of society agrees you should have.

 

[Jroc]

Actually, the Berlin Wall was built by the East Germans, who were a bit embarrassed so many of their citizens were going over to collect the bribe that West Germans were offering defectors.

Oh, yeah, and about 43,000 ethnic germans were moving to the west every year in 1985. By 1988, it increased to 202,000. The "Curtain" was maybe made of nylon.. A total of 3 million germans moved west in total.


Eeeeeek, Communism.

The Berlin Wall was a monument of the failure of communism. Failure is something you must understand quite well.

In 1961, Secretary of State Dean Rusk proclaimed, "The Wall certainly ought not to be a permanent feature of the European landscape. I see no reason why the Soviet Union should think it is—it is to their advantage in any way to leave there that monument to Communist failure."

Again, Capitalism failed a whole 20 years after Communism did.

Maybe we need to try something new.

True Capitalism never fails..it's crony capitalism which fails

 

[Oldstyle]

So, if one pays social security and medicare taxes throughout their lives until retirement, and then expects to benefit, this scheme is "sapping" America of self-reliance?

I would agree that disibility for adults and medicaid for kids in special education is more and more a bad joke.

For God's sake, Ben...what part of we've obligated ourselves to more entitlements than we could EVER pay do you not grasp? We've reached the point now where more Americans are on food stamps than the populations of Washington, Oregon and California COMBINED!!! Think about that!

What's sapping America of the very spirit that made it the greatest country the world has ever known is this notion that the people who have worked hard and made money somehow owe those that chose not to work a "living wage". That's damaging to both the person who DOES succeed...because who's going to kill themselves to become successful only to have the Government take it away your assets to give to someone who never broke a sweat...and to the person that collects this "living wage" because they will NEVER realize their true potential and will NEVER be more than a "welfare slave".

 

[Oldstyle]

The problem with your argument is that "Free Markets" and "Private Property" are illusions.

If you are dumping cyanide in your water supply to produce a cancer causing product you are selling as kiddie toys, guess what, people are probably going to put a stop to that, pretty quickly, and long before your beloved "Market" does.

Very stupid retort, but par for the course. Just how stupid are you Joey?

Your lack of a response is duly noted.

Here's a hint. There are no rights. THere is no Private Property. There is only what the rest of society agrees you should have.

The reason that people flocked to the United States of America is that we were one of the few places on earth where individuals HAD rights that COULDN'T be taken away by "society". We change that at our own peril. When we cease to be a country of individual rights...we cease to be great.

 

[JoeB131]

The Berlin Wall was a monument of the failure of communism. Failure is something you must understand quite well.

In 1961, Secretary of State Dean Rusk proclaimed, "The Wall certainly ought not to be a permanent feature of the European landscape. I see no reason why the Soviet Union should think it is—it is to their advantage in any way to leave there that monument to Communist failure."

Again, Capitalism failed a whole 20 years after Communism did.

Maybe we need to try something new.

True Capitalism never fails..it's crony capitalism which fails

Doesnt' that sound like all the Communists who insist that what the USSR had wasn't "True" communism? The Trotskyites claimed it turned away from Communism in 1923 and the Stalinists claim it did in 1956.

Or all you religious nutters who kill each other because you think the other guy is a heretic and doesn't practice the "True" faith?

Any philosophy sounds great on paper, and usually gets screwed up when people get involved.

 

[JoeB131]

Very stupid retort, but par for the course. Just how stupid are you Joey?

Your lack of a response is duly noted.

Here's a hint. There are no rights. THere is no Private Property. There is only what the rest of society agrees you should have.

The reason that people flocked to the United States of America is that we were one of the few places on earth where individuals HAD rights that COULDN'T be taken away by "society". We change that at our own peril. When we cease to be a country of individual rights...we cease to be great.

Really?

I think the Native Americans who had their lands stolen would disagree with you, if we hadn't genocided the shit out of them.

The blacks who were held in slavery for half our history and regulated to second class citizenship for the other half would disagree with you as well.

Hey, but if you really want to hear about people who flocked here for rights, how about the Japanese Americans. Yeah, they had all sorts of rights.. .until 1942, anyway.

 

[Meathead]

The problem with your argument is that "Free Markets" and "Private Property" are illusions.

If you are dumping cyanide in your water supply to produce a cancer causing product you are selling as kiddie toys, guess what, people are probably going to put a stop to that, pretty quickly, and long before your beloved "Market" does.

Very stupid retort, but par for the course. Just how stupid are you Joey?

Your lack of a response is duly noted.

Here's a hint. There are no rights. THere is no Private Property. There is only what the rest of society agrees you should have.

Seriously Joey?! You consider free markets and private property an allusion (sic)?! Then the bit about dumping cyanide into my water supply some sort of legitimate response.

How stupid are you? Seriously, are you under some sort of professional care?

 

[JoeB131]

Very stupid retort, but par for the course. Just how stupid are you Joey?

Your lack of a response is duly noted.

Here's a hint. There are no rights. THere is no Private Property. There is only what the rest of society agrees you should have.

Seriously Joey?! You consider free markets and private property an allusion (sic)?! Then the bit about dumping cyanide into my water supply some sort of legitimate response.

How stupid are you? Seriously, are you under some sort of professional care?

NOt at all.

If it's my property the factory is on, it's really none of your business what I'm dumping into the water table.

And if you are dumb enough to buy my dangerous toys, it's your own damned fault. "Caveat Emptor, Baby.

Oh, no, wait. the COMMON GOOD outweighs that. What a fucking concept.

 

[Meathead]

Your lack of a response is duly noted.

Here's a hint. There are no rights. THere is no Private Property. There is only what the rest of society agrees you should have.

Seriously Joey?! You consider free markets and private property an allusion (sic)?! Then the bit about dumping cyanide into my water supply some sort of legitimate response.

How stupid are you? Seriously, are you under some sort of professional care?

NOt at all.

If it's my property the factory is on, it's really none of your business what I'm dumping into the water table.

And if you are dumb enough to buy my dangerous toys, it's your own damned fault. "Caveat Emptor, Baby.

Oh, no, wait. the COMMON GOOD outweighs that. What a fucking concept.

Do you have any idea wtf you're babbling about?

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah, I do.

I don't think you do, because I've explained it to you twice and you still don't get it.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The problem with your argument is that "Free Markets" and "Private Property" are illusions.

If you are dumping cyanide in your water supply to produce a cancer causing product you are selling as kiddie toys, guess what, people are probably going to put a stop to that, pretty quickly, and long before your beloved "Market" does.

Very stupid retort, but par for the course. Just how stupid are you Joey?

Your lack of a response is duly noted.

Here's a hint. There are no rights. THere is no Private Property. There is only what the rest of society agrees you should have.

Marxists believe that there are no rights. There is no Private Property. There is only what the rest of society agrees you should have.

 

[Meathead]

Yeah, I do.

I don't think you do, because I've explained it to you twice and you still don't get it.

I have little doubt in the world of JoeB it makes perfect sense. But then by God's grace, so few of us live there.

 

[JoeB131]

Very stupid retort, but par for the course. Just how stupid are you Joey?

Your lack of a response is duly noted.

Here's a hint. There are no rights. THere is no Private Property. There is only what the rest of society agrees you should have.

Marxists believe that there are no rights. There is no Private Property. There is only what the rest of society agrees you should have.

No, that's what EVERYONE believes.

Its why you can't go streaking naked down mainstreet today, guy. Because the rest of society has decided they don't want to see your junk, sight unseen.

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah, I do.

I don't think you do, because I've explained it to you twice and you still don't get it.

I have little doubt in the world of JoeB it makes perfect sense. But then by God's grace, so few of us live there.

In your world, denial of reality is pretty easy.

You rail against the strictures of civilized society, but you'd never want to live without them.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Your lack of a response is duly noted.

Here's a hint. There are no rights. THere is no Private Property. There is only what the rest of society agrees you should have.

Marxists believe that there are no rights. There is no Private Property. There is only what the rest of society agrees you should have.

No, that's what EVERYONE believes.

Its why you can't go streaking naked down mainstreet today, guy. Because the rest of society has decided they don't want to see your junk, sight unseen.

No Honey Boo Boo, Marxists believe that the state owns everything and they deign to allocate you what they think you're entitled to