Reagan & Conservatives -- Revisonist History 101

[Peterf]

No, you see what happened was that mechanization and irrigation and improved genetics and treating farming as a SCIENCE meant that you didn't need 70% of the population engaged in agriculture. You could do it just as effectively with 3%.

A family farm works well if it's small. But it won't feed that many people.

The point you miss is that we have agriculture that feeds a hell of a lot of people because we treat it like a national resource that is subsidized and supported by government, from everything to vast irrigation projects to rural electrification to price supports.

In short, the exact oppossite of what you Ayn Randian wingnuts propose.

I'm confused, if the technology improved efficiency and yield, why do they need subsidies?

Also did Ann Rynd turn you away from being a Republican?

Naw, that was my Ex-boss saying, "I can totally screw you over because I don't have to deal with a union." I've explained this, are you fucking dense?

They need subsidies because if you relied on "supply and demand", you wouldn't have an even supply and demand. Farmers would grow what made them money, not what the population needed. Agriculture works in this country because it is HIGHLY government regulated.

People will buy the food they need. If farmers grow it they will make money. If they are growing products for which there is no demand they will switch. This is not hard to understand. Its called the market and it works. Politicians who tamper with it do so at their peril - well, not THEIR peril but the peril of those unfortunate people they rule over.

Subsidised, regulated and planned agriculture has been tried in many countries; it has always failed. We have the dreadful example of the Soviet Empire before us. For decades it could only feed its populations by importing food produced by the free farmers in the US.

 

[Billo_Really]

So in 5 years Obama racked up more debt than three other Presidents did in 20...and you;re proud of that?

17 - 9 = 8

Last I looked, 8 is less than 9.

 

[Billo_Really]

That's comical.. Clinton benefited from Reagan's policies which were still working Clinton also benefited form the Reagan peace dividend and the Republican control of congress which kept Clinton form spending on Hillery-care and forced him to sign welfare reform among other things, there's no such thing as "the Clinton surplus"

Not after Bush43 did his thing.

 

[Billo_Really]

Trying cashing a check based on projections

You have more of a chance of it being honored with a projected surplus, than a projected debt.

 

[JoeB131]

It wasn't until the 1930's that government interfered at all with farming. Up until that point Americans were the best fed people on the planet! Gee, how DID we survive without help from the Federal Government!!!!

Um, yeah, about that...

Um, yeah, America was an agricultural paradise before that commie FDR messed everything up by making sure the food supply was consistant.

The Dust Bowl happened under FDR

I realize you are like, stupid and stuff... but the CAUSES of the Dust Bowl pre-date FDR.

Dust Bowl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Oldstyle]

[

I'm a European History major, Joe...I know quite a bit about the Berlin Wall. I know for instance that the Soviet bloc nations secured their borders with fences, mine fields, dogs, machine guns and guards. They typically had a depopulated zone on the eastern side of the border...something that wasn't possible with Berlin which is why they were forced to build the Berlin Wall. I know that the border guards were only allowed to be married men with families to keep them from crossing the border themselves. I know that over 3 million East Germans fled the East for West Germany before the communists built the Iron Curtain to keep them from leaving. You obviously don't know much about Germany following WWII.

All of this is relevent to Cuba, how exactly?

Germans fled East Germany because it was occuppied by the RUSSIANS, you mope.

Again, I find it hilarious that you guys think that the Berlin Wall was so horrible, but you'd build one just like it on the Southern border to keep the Mexicans out.

Ah, Joe? The Berlin Wall was built by the Russians to keep people from escaping communism...the wall we've built on our southern border is to keep people from coming into the United States. We need a wall because so many want to come here we can't absorb the influx. It would be the SAME as the Berlin Wall if we were building something to keep OUR people from leaving. Duh?

Give you progressives a few more decades and that may very well be the case...

 

[Oldstyle]

Um, yeah, about that...

Um, yeah, America was an agricultural paradise before that commie FDR messed everything up by making sure the food supply was consistant.

The Dust Bowl happened under FDR

I realize you are like, stupid and stuff... but the CAUSES of the Dust Bowl pre-date FDR.

Dust Bowl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I hate to break this to you, Joe but you know as little about the origins of food subsidies and the results of government intervention into farming as you do about the Berlin Wall and Cuba.

 

[JoeB131]

[

I'm a European History major, Joe...I know quite a bit about the Berlin Wall. I know for instance that the Soviet bloc nations secured their borders with fences, mine fields, dogs, machine guns and guards. They typically had a depopulated zone on the eastern side of the border...something that wasn't possible with Berlin which is why they were forced to build the Berlin Wall. I know that the border guards were only allowed to be married men with families to keep them from crossing the border themselves. I know that over 3 million East Germans fled the East for West Germany before the communists built the Iron Curtain to keep them from leaving. You obviously don't know much about Germany following WWII.

All of this is relevent to Cuba, how exactly?

Germans fled East Germany because it was occuppied by the RUSSIANS, you mope.

Again, I find it hilarious that you guys think that the Berlin Wall was so horrible, but you'd build one just like it on the Southern border to keep the Mexicans out.

Ah, Joe? The Berlin Wall was built by the Russians to keep people from escaping communism...the wall we've built on our southern border is to keep people from coming into the United States. We need a wall because so many want to come here we can't absorb the influx. It would be the SAME as the Berlin Wall if we were building something to keep OUR people from leaving. Duh?

Give you progressives a few more decades and that may very well be the case...

Actually, the Berlin Wall was built by the East Germans, who were a bit embarrassed so many of their citizens were going over to collect the bribe that West Germans were offering defectors.

Oh, yeah, and about 43,000 ethnic germans were moving to the west every year in 1985. By 1988, it increased to 202,000. The "Curtain" was maybe made of nylon.. A total of 3 million germans moved west in total.


Eeeeeek, Communism.

 

[JoeB131]

The Dust Bowl happened under FDR

I realize you are like, stupid and stuff... but the CAUSES of the Dust Bowl pre-date FDR.

Dust Bowl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I hate to break this to you, Joe but you know as little about the origins of food subsidies and the results of government intervention into farming as you do about the Berlin Wall and Cuba.

Uh, yeah, guy. Tell yourself that. Maybe you need to stop learning your history from John Birch websites.

 

[Meathead]

All of this is relevent to Cuba, how exactly?

Germans fled East Germany because it was occuppied by the RUSSIANS, you mope.

Again, I find it hilarious that you guys think that the Berlin Wall was so horrible, but you'd build one just like it on the Southern border to keep the Mexicans out.

Ah, Joe? The Berlin Wall was built by the Russians to keep people from escaping communism...the wall we've built on our southern border is to keep people from coming into the United States. We need a wall because so many want to come here we can't absorb the influx. It would be the SAME as the Berlin Wall if we were building something to keep OUR people from leaving. Duh?

Give you progressives a few more decades and that may very well be the case...

Actually, the Berlin Wall was built by the East Germans, who were a bit embarrassed so many of their citizens were going over to collect the bribe that West Germans were offering defectors.

Oh, yeah, and about 43,000 ethnic germans were moving to the west every year in 1985. By 1988, it increased to 202,000. The "Curtain" was maybe made of nylon.. A total of 3 million germans moved west in total.


Eeeeeek, Communism.

The Berlin Wall was a monument of the failure of communism. Failure is something you must understand quite well.

In 1961, Secretary of State Dean Rusk proclaimed, "The Wall certainly ought not to be a permanent feature of the European landscape. I see no reason why the Soviet Union should think it is—it is to their advantage in any way to leave there that monument to Communist failure."

 

[JoeB131]

Ah, Joe? The Berlin Wall was built by the Russians to keep people from escaping communism...the wall we've built on our southern border is to keep people from coming into the United States. We need a wall because so many want to come here we can't absorb the influx. It would be the SAME as the Berlin Wall if we were building something to keep OUR people from leaving. Duh?

Give you progressives a few more decades and that may very well be the case...

Actually, the Berlin Wall was built by the East Germans, who were a bit embarrassed so many of their citizens were going over to collect the bribe that West Germans were offering defectors.

Oh, yeah, and about 43,000 ethnic germans were moving to the west every year in 1985. By 1988, it increased to 202,000. The "Curtain" was maybe made of nylon.. A total of 3 million germans moved west in total.


Eeeeeek, Communism.

The Berlin Wall was a monument of the failure of communism. Failure is something you must understand quite well.

In 1961, Secretary of State Dean Rusk proclaimed, "The Wall certainly ought not to be a permanent feature of the European landscape. I see no reason why the Soviet Union should think it is—it is to their advantage in any way to leave there that monument to Communist failure."

Again, Capitalism failed a whole 20 years after Communism did.

Maybe we need to try something new.

 

[Meathead]

Actually, the Berlin Wall was built by the East Germans, who were a bit embarrassed so many of their citizens were going over to collect the bribe that West Germans were offering defectors.

Oh, yeah, and about 43,000 ethnic germans were moving to the west every year in 1985. By 1988, it increased to 202,000. The "Curtain" was maybe made of nylon.. A total of 3 million germans moved west in total.


Eeeeeek, Communism.

The Berlin Wall was a monument of the failure of communism. Failure is something you must understand quite well.

In 1961, Secretary of State Dean Rusk proclaimed, "The Wall certainly ought not to be a permanent feature of the European landscape. I see no reason why the Soviet Union should think it is—it is to their advantage in any way to leave there that monument to Communist failure."

Again, Capitalism failed a whole 20 years after Communism did.

Maybe we need to try something new.

Joe, capitalism has not failed. You have.

 

[JoeB131]

The Berlin Wall was a monument of the failure of communism. Failure is something you must understand quite well.

In 1961, Secretary of State Dean Rusk proclaimed, "The Wall certainly ought not to be a permanent feature of the European landscape. I see no reason why the Soviet Union should think it is—it is to their advantage in any way to leave there that monument to Communist failure."

Again, Capitalism failed a whole 20 years after Communism did.

Maybe we need to try something new.

Joe, capitalism has not failed. You have.

No, you see, guy, I'm not the one who lost 5 trillion dollars in 2008, and required a government bailout to keep the world from collapsing in to anarchy.

That would be the capitialist system you love so well.

Can't claim to be a "Capitalist" when you go to the government for a huge bailout.

 

[Meathead]

Again, Capitalism failed a whole 20 years after Communism did.

Maybe we need to try something new.

Joe, capitalism has not failed. You have.

No, you see, guy, I'm not the one who lost 5 trillion dollars in 2008, and required a government bailout to keep the world from collapsing in to anarchy.

That would be the capitialist system you love so well.

Can't claim to be a "Capitalist" when you go to the government for a huge bailout.

Don't be an idiot Joe. The entire premise of capitalism is making money as well as losing it. Because it, like everything else is cyclical and money is lost and won, and because you're a loser is not tantamount to the collapse of capitalism. I don't recall capitalism being abandoned following the Great Depression and I don't seeing being abandoned now. Not even the left is that stupid, although you certainly are.

 

[editec]

Capitalism does NOT include giving failed banks trillions of dollars, Meathead.

We do not have a real capitalist economy.

We have a kleptocracy by monetarism economy.

Some of you on the right recognize the problem but call it socialism.

It isn't socialism, it isn't capitalism, it's plain old corruption from the top.

 

[JoeB131]

[Don't be an idiot Joe. The entire premise of capitalism is making money as well as losing it. Because it, like everything else is cyclical and money is lost and won, and because you're a loser is not tantamount to the collapse of capitalism. I don't recall capitalism being abandoned following the Great Depression and I don't seeing being abandoned now. Not even the left is that stupid, although you certainly are.

Actually, it was abandoned during the Great Depression. That's why we got the new deal and the SEC and the FDIC and the FSLIC and all the other agencies to keep the Capitalists from fucking shit up with their greed.

Then in the 1980's, they convinced a senile old actor to become president and dismantle some of these very sensible rules.

Resulting in the 1989 crash and then the bigger, badder 2008 crash.

Some of you people just never learn.

 

[JoeB131]

Capitalism does NOT include giving failed banks trillions of dollars, Meathead.

We do not have a real capitalist economy.

We have a kleptocracy by monetarism economy.

Some of you on the right recognize the problem but call it socialism.

It isn't socialism, it isn't capitalism, it's plain old corruption from the top.

They capitalize gains for the few and socialize risk amongst the many, that isn't capitalism.

Kudoos to you, sir!

 

[Meathead]

Capitalism does NOT include giving failed banks trillions of dollars, Meathead.

We do not have a real capitalist economy.

We have a kleptocracy by monetarism economy.

Some of you on the right recognize the problem but call it socialism.

It isn't socialism, it isn't capitalism, it's plain old corruption from the top.

Capitalism does not include many things, like welfare state for example. As with all things, modification are made for the common good. Free markets and private property, the cornerstones of capitalism, have survived. Only fools like communists would attempt to change it, especially in view of the dismal failure of other economic systems which try to divorce people form their instincts.

 

[JoeB131]

Capitalism does NOT include giving failed banks trillions of dollars, Meathead.

We do not have a real capitalist economy.

We have a kleptocracy by monetarism economy.

Some of you on the right recognize the problem but call it socialism.

It isn't socialism, it isn't capitalism, it's plain old corruption from the top.

Capitalism does not include many things, like welfare state for example. As with all things, modification are made for the common good. Free markets and private property, the cornerstones of capitalism, have survived. Only fools like communists would attempt to change it, especially in view of the dismal failure of other economic systems which try to divorce people form their instincts.

The problem with your argument is that "Free Markets" and "Private Property" are illusions.

If you are dumping cyanide in your water supply to produce a cancer causing product you are selling as kiddie toys, guess what, people are probably going to put a stop to that, pretty quickly, and long before your beloved "Market" does.

 

[Meathead]

Capitalism does NOT include giving failed banks trillions of dollars, Meathead.

We do not have a real capitalist economy.

We have a kleptocracy by monetarism economy.

Some of you on the right recognize the problem but call it socialism.

It isn't socialism, it isn't capitalism, it's plain old corruption from the top.

Capitalism does not include many things, like welfare state for example. As with all things, modification are made for the common good. Free markets and private property, the cornerstones of capitalism, have survived. Only fools like communists would attempt to change it, especially in view of the dismal failure of other economic systems which try to divorce people form their instincts.

The problem with your argument is that "Free Markets" and "Private Property" are illusions.

If you are dumping cyanide in your water supply to produce a cancer causing product you are selling as kiddie toys, guess what, people are probably going to put a stop to that, pretty quickly, and long before your beloved "Market" does.

Very stupid retort, but par for the course. Just how stupid are you Joey?