Reagan & Conservatives -- Revisonist History 101

[Dot Com]

Russian engineer in NJ 1989, in tears at his first visit to an A&P. A grown man crying openly. Why? He said JoeB's imaginary friends lied to him his whole life, they told him there was nothing like the prosperity and choices the American middle class enjoyed, it was all a lie all propaganda. And there, right in front of him was more fresh food than he'd ever seen in his entire life. Because it was run by free enterprise and not by the government

And it's very nice and stuff.

But here's the thing. The reason why we have so much fresh food is because the government subsidizes farming.

Latest breaking news on US farm bill 2013 - breakingnews.com

The US Senate advanced a a $955 billion five-year farm bill in June 2013. The bill would cut $24 billion from current spending levels over 10 years, including $4 billion-worth of cuts in food stamps.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) said he hopes that House leaders will allow a floor vote on the Senate farm bill this year

Hey, if you are throwing nearly a TRILLION dollars at farmers over a five year period, that's not a "Free Market", dude.

Wow, you really are a stupid person, aren't you?

OUCH Frank!!!

as to the OP, Raygun was good at tough guy talk

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I

Russian engineer in NJ 1989, in tears at his first visit to an A&P. A grown man crying openly. Why? He said JoeB's imaginary friends lied to him his whole life, they told him there was nothing like the prosperity and choices the American middle class enjoyed, it was all a lie all propaganda. And there, right in front of him was more fresh food than he'd ever seen in his entire life. Because it was run by free enterprise and not by the government

And it's very nice and stuff.

But here's the thing. The reason why we have so much fresh food is because the government subsidizes farming.

Latest breaking news on US farm bill 2013 - breakingnews.com

The US Senate advanced a a $955 billion five-year farm bill in June 2013. The bill would cut $24 billion from current spending levels over 10 years, including $4 billion-worth of cuts in food stamps.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) said he hopes that House leaders will allow a floor vote on the Senate farm bill this year

Hey, if you are throwing nearly a TRILLION dollars at farmers over a five year period, that's not a "Free Market", dude.

Wow, you really are a stupid person, aren't you?

We were founded as a nation of farmers. All the government subsidies did was make it impossible for the family farmer. We have few farmers because we have so many subsidies

 

[JoeB131]

I[

We were founded as a nation of farmers. All the government subsidies did was make it impossible for the family farmer. We have few farmers because we have so many subsidies

No, you see what happened was that mechanization and irrigation and improved genetics and treating farming as a SCIENCE meant that you didn't need 70% of the population engaged in agriculture. You could do it just as effectively with 3%.

A family farm works well if it's small. But it won't feed that many people.

The point you miss is that we have agriculture that feeds a hell of a lot of people because we treat it like a national resource that is subsidized and supported by government, from everything to vast irrigation projects to rural electrification to price supports.

In short, the exact oppossite of what you Ayn Randian wingnuts propose.

 

[Oldstyle]

[

Wow...do you not understand what the Berlin Wall was, Joe? It was a barrier constructed to keep people under Soviet domination from leaving for the West. It was very much a "physical" Iron Curtain. It consisted of concrete walls, barbed wire and guards with rifles shooting anyone trying to cross. That isn't a "metaphor"! People aren't killed by a metaphor.

You do realize the "Berlin Wall" was deep inside the middle of East Germany, right?

Hey, but you guys should be happy. Communism had an epic fail 20 whole years before Capitalism did.

Maybe it's time to look for something better?

I'm a European History major, Joe...I know quite a bit about the Berlin Wall. I know for instance that the Soviet bloc nations secured their borders with fences, mine fields, dogs, machine guns and guards. They typically had a depopulated zone on the eastern side of the border...something that wasn't possible with Berlin which is why they were forced to build the Berlin Wall. I know that the border guards were only allowed to be married men with families to keep them from crossing the border themselves. I know that over 3 million East Germans fled the East for West Germany before the communists built the Iron Curtain to keep them from leaving. You obviously don't know much about Germany following WWII.

 

[Oldstyle]

I[

We were founded as a nation of farmers. All the government subsidies did was make it impossible for the family farmer. We have few farmers because we have so many subsidies

No, you see what happened was that mechanization and irrigation and improved genetics and treating farming as a SCIENCE meant that you didn't need 70% of the population engaged in agriculture. You could do it just as effectively with 3%.

A family farm works well if it's small. But it won't feed that many people.

The point you miss is that we have agriculture that feeds a hell of a lot of people because we treat it like a national resource that is subsidized and supported by government, from everything to vast irrigation projects to rural electrification to price supports.

In short, the exact oppossite of what you Ayn Randian wingnuts propose.

Contrary to what liberals like you would like to believe...the nation's farmers were feeding a hell of a lot of people LONG before the government introduced farm subsidies.

 

[Oldstyle]

It wasn't until the 1930's that government interfered at all with farming. Up until that point Americans were the best fed people on the planet! Gee, how DID we survive without help from the Federal Government!!!!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I[

We were founded as a nation of farmers. All the government subsidies did was make it impossible for the family farmer. We have few farmers because we have so many subsidies

No, you see what happened was that mechanization and irrigation and improved genetics and treating farming as a SCIENCE meant that you didn't need 70% of the population engaged in agriculture. You could do it just as effectively with 3%.

A family farm works well if it's small. But it won't feed that many people.

The point you miss is that we have agriculture that feeds a hell of a lot of people because we treat it like a national resource that is subsidized and supported by government, from everything to vast irrigation projects to rural electrification to price supports.

In short, the exact oppossite of what you Ayn Randian wingnuts propose.

I'm confused, if the technology improved efficiency and yield, why do they need subsidies?

Also did Ann Rynd turn you away from being a Republican?

 

[Dot Com]

I[

We were founded as a nation of farmers. All the government subsidies did was make it impossible for the family farmer. We have few farmers because we have so many subsidies

No, you see what happened was that mechanization and irrigation and improved genetics and treating farming as a SCIENCE meant that you didn't need 70% of the population engaged in agriculture. You could do it just as effectively with 3%.

A family farm works well if it's small. But it won't feed that many people.

The point you miss is that we have agriculture that feeds a hell of a lot of people because we treat it like a national resource that is subsidized and supported by government, from everything to vast irrigation projects to rural electrification to price supports.

In short, the exact oppossite of what you Ayn Randian wingnuts propose.

don't even get me started on Randians like Paul Ryan (R) & Greenspan!!!

 

[JoeB131]

[

I'm a European History major, Joe...I know quite a bit about the Berlin Wall. I know for instance that the Soviet bloc nations secured their borders with fences, mine fields, dogs, machine guns and guards. They typically had a depopulated zone on the eastern side of the border...something that wasn't possible with Berlin which is why they were forced to build the Berlin Wall. I know that the border guards were only allowed to be married men with families to keep them from crossing the border themselves. I know that over 3 million East Germans fled the East for West Germany before the communists built the Iron Curtain to keep them from leaving. You obviously don't know much about Germany following WWII.

All of this is relevent to Cuba, how exactly?

Germans fled East Germany because it was occuppied by the RUSSIANS, you mope.

Again, I find it hilarious that you guys think that the Berlin Wall was so horrible, but you'd build one just like it on the Southern border to keep the Mexicans out.

 

[JoeB131]

I[

We were founded as a nation of farmers. All the government subsidies did was make it impossible for the family farmer. We have few farmers because we have so many subsidies

No, you see what happened was that mechanization and irrigation and improved genetics and treating farming as a SCIENCE meant that you didn't need 70% of the population engaged in agriculture. You could do it just as effectively with 3%.

A family farm works well if it's small. But it won't feed that many people.

The point you miss is that we have agriculture that feeds a hell of a lot of people because we treat it like a national resource that is subsidized and supported by government, from everything to vast irrigation projects to rural electrification to price supports.

In short, the exact oppossite of what you Ayn Randian wingnuts propose.

I'm confused, if the technology improved efficiency and yield, why do they need subsidies?

Also did Ann Rynd turn you away from being a Republican?

Naw, that was my Ex-boss saying, "I can totally screw you over because I don't have to deal with a union." I've explained this, are you fucking dense?

They need subsidies because if you relied on "supply and demand", you wouldn't have an even supply and demand. Farmers would grow what made them money, not what the population needed. Agriculture works in this country because it is HIGHLY government regulated.

 

[JoeB131]

It wasn't until the 1930's that government interfered at all with farming. Up until that point Americans were the best fed people on the planet! Gee, how DID we survive without help from the Federal Government!!!!

Um, yeah, about that...

Um, yeah, America was an agricultural paradise before that commie FDR messed everything up by making sure the food supply was consistant.

 

[Billo_Really]

When Reagan hit the WH in 1981, the federal debt was $934 billion. Because of his tax cuts for the rich, when he left in 1989, the federal debt ballooned to $2.7 trillion. Those bullshit tax cuts continued to add to the debt under Reagan's successor, Bush41, who left office in 1993 with a federal debt at $4.2 trillion.

It wasn't until Bill Clinton took office, did the debt begin to stabilize at $5.7 trillion (after Clinton pushed through tax increases). When Clinton left office in 2001, there was a budget surplus of $236 billion and a 10-year projected budget surplus of $5.6 trillion.

That's right, a surplus $5.6 trillion. As in, no federal debt!

That all changed with Bush43 cutting taxes for the rich and starting two wars. By 2008, the federal debt was over $9.6 trillion, couples with zero job growth during his two terms.

You can blame Obama for $8 trillion, but the other $9 trillion of federal debt are the fault of 3 republican Presidents.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

[

I'm a European History major, Joe...I know quite a bit about the Berlin Wall. I know for instance that the Soviet bloc nations secured their borders with fences, mine fields, dogs, machine guns and guards. They typically had a depopulated zone on the eastern side of the border...something that wasn't possible with Berlin which is why they were forced to build the Berlin Wall. I know that the border guards were only allowed to be married men with families to keep them from crossing the border themselves. I know that over 3 million East Germans fled the East for West Germany before the communists built the Iron Curtain to keep them from leaving. You obviously don't know much about Germany following WWII.

All of this is relevent to Cuba, how exactly?

Germans fled East Germany because it was occuppied by the RUSSIANS, you mope.

Again, I find it hilarious that you guys think that the Berlin Wall was so horrible, but you'd build one just like it on the Southern border to keep the Mexicans out.

That's the difference, your government built walls to keep people IN

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It wasn't until the 1930's that government interfered at all with farming. Up until that point Americans were the best fed people on the planet! Gee, how DID we survive without help from the Federal Government!!!!

Um, yeah, about that...

Um, yeah, America was an agricultural paradise before that commie FDR messed everything up by making sure the food supply was consistant.

The Dust Bowl happened under FDR

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It wasn't until the 1930's that government interfered at all with farming. Up until that point Americans were the best fed people on the planet! Gee, how DID we survive without help from the Federal Government!!!!

Um, yeah, about that...

Um, yeah, America was an agricultural paradise before that commie FDR messed everything up by making sure the food supply was consistant.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So Obama's record food stamp useage is good?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

When Reagan hit the WH in 1981, the federal debt was $934 billion. Because of his tax cuts for the rich, when he left in 1989, the federal debt ballooned to $2.7 trillion. Those bullshit tax cuts continued to add to the debt under Reagan's successor, Bush41, who left office in 1993 with a federal debt at $4.2 trillion.

It wasn't until Bill Clinton took office, did the debt begin to stabilize at $5.7 trillion (after Clinton pushed through tax increases). When Clinton left office in 2001, there was a budget surplus of $236 billion and a 10-year projected budget surplus of $5.6 trillion.

That's right, a surplus $5.6 trillion. As in, no federal debt!

That all changed with Bush43 cutting taxes for the rich and starting two wars. By 2008, the federal debt was over $9.6 trillion, couples with zero job growth during his two terms.

You can blame Obama for $8 trillion, but the other $9 trillion of federal debt are the fault of 3 republican Presidents.

Trying cashing a check based on projections

 

[CrusaderFrank]

No, you see what happened was that mechanization and irrigation and improved genetics and treating farming as a SCIENCE meant that you didn't need 70% of the population engaged in agriculture. You could do it just as effectively with 3%.

A family farm works well if it's small. But it won't feed that many people.

The point you miss is that we have agriculture that feeds a hell of a lot of people because we treat it like a national resource that is subsidized and supported by government, from everything to vast irrigation projects to rural electrification to price supports.

In short, the exact oppossite of what you Ayn Randian wingnuts propose.

I'm confused, if the technology improved efficiency and yield, why do they need subsidies?

Also did Ann Rynd turn you away from being a Republican?

Naw, that was my Ex-boss saying, "I can totally screw you over because I don't have to deal with a union." I've explained this, are you fucking dense?

They need subsidies because if you relied on "supply and demand", you wouldn't have an even supply and demand. Farmers would grow what made them money, not what the population needed. Agriculture works in this country because it is HIGHLY government regulated.

Were you in a Union when you were hired?

So you believe that people wouldn't need to eat unless the government subsidized farmers. OK, no wonder your Boss thought you were an idiot

 

[Jroc]

When Reagan hit the WH in 1981, the federal debt was $934 billion. Because of his tax cuts for the rich, when he left in 1989, the federal debt ballooned to $2.7 trillion. Those bullshit tax cuts continued to add to the debt under Reagan's successor, Bush41, who left office in 1993 with a federal debt at $4.2 trillion.

It wasn't until Bill Clinton took office, did the debt begin to stabilize at $5.7 trillion (after Clinton pushed through tax increases). When Clinton left office in 2001, there was a budget surplus of $236 billion and a 10-year projected budget surplus of $5.6 trillion.

That's right, a surplus $5.6 trillion. As in, no federal debt!

That all changed with Bush43 cutting taxes for the rich and starting two wars. By 2008, the federal debt was over $9.6 trillion, couples with zero job growth during his two terms.

You can blame Obama for $8 trillion, but the other $9 trillion of federal debt are the fault of 3 republican Presidents.

That's comical.. Clinton benefited from Reagan's policies which were still working Clinton also benefited form the Reagan peace dividend and the Republican control of congress which kept Clinton form spending on Hillery-care and forced him to sign welfare reform among other things, there's no such thing as "the Clinton surplus"

 

[CrusaderFrank]

When Reagan hit the WH in 1981, the federal debt was $934 billion. Because of his tax cuts for the rich, when he left in 1989, the federal debt ballooned to $2.7 trillion. Those bullshit tax cuts continued to add to the debt under Reagan's successor, Bush41, who left office in 1993 with a federal debt at $4.2 trillion.

It wasn't until Bill Clinton took office, did the debt begin to stabilize at $5.7 trillion (after Clinton pushed through tax increases). When Clinton left office in 2001, there was a budget surplus of $236 billion and a 10-year projected budget surplus of $5.6 trillion.

That's right, a surplus $5.6 trillion. As in, no federal debt!

That all changed with Bush43 cutting taxes for the rich and starting two wars. By 2008, the federal debt was over $9.6 trillion, couples with zero job growth during his two terms.

You can blame Obama for $8 trillion, but the other $9 trillion of federal debt are the fault of 3 republican Presidents.

So in 5 years Obama racked up more debt than three other Presidents did in 20...and you;re proud of that?