Reagan & Conservatives -- Revisonist History 101

[Oldstyle]

I do links when I feel like them... when I think the person I am talking to is capable of being educated.

consider my lack of taking the time to do so a measure of disrespect towards you and your lazy thinking.

I consider it to be evidence of your lack of ethics, Joe. Unless YOU wrote it...you owe whoever DID the respect of crediting them for their work. That's the kind of thing you learn when you HAVE an education!

Not really. This isn't an acedemic paper...

Instead of whining about "Where's the link", how about refuting the points made.

In short- Batista was a dictator, his management of Cuba's economy was incompetent and corrupt to a point where George W. Bush would have said, "Damn!" and even our own officials admitted that supporting him was a mistake.

Because you wingnuts keep trying to scream about what a paradise Cuba was (for rich people) when clearly it wasn't if the people rose up and threw those fuckers out.

Oh, so you can co-opt the work of someone else and post it as if it was your own as long as it's not an "acedemic (sic) paper"? Good to know, Joe!

Part of the process of "refuting" links here, involves knowing where the link came from. It's pretty obvious at this point that you don't want to reveal where you got your info from which tells me you either cherry picked something or it's from a laughably bad source. I'm leaning towards the latter since you have to be getting all of your nonsense from somewhere.

I never said Cuba was a paradise under Battista. What I've simply pointed out is that the average Cuban was better off in many ways back then...then now. Communism has failed miserably in Cuba, Joe. The people endure extreme hardships because of Fidel Castro and his rejection of free market economies. That's not a political "viewpoint"...that's the reality of Cuba since the Soviet Union crumbled and stopped subsidizing the Cuban economy.

 

[Oldstyle]

Ah, Stalin died back in 1953, Joe...didn't get that memo either?

Reading comprehension a problem for you? I think you can clearly read that sentence and understand exactly what I was saying.

But when you are losing an argument, harp on grammar.

You did lose the argument, by the way, in case no one bothers to tell you, Corky.

as he has in ALL of his arguments.whats really funny about his ramblings is as always,he only got it half right.lol. It was his FATHER jOE kENNEDY that used the mob to get him elected.there is no shread of evidence that the Kennedy brothers themselves had ties to the mob. sure he dated Judith Exner,the girlfriend of mob boss sam giancana and was friends with Frank Sinatra but that hardly proves mob ties.

He also ignores that JFK double crossed the mob after getting elected.Giancana was instrumental in him getting elected rigging the elections in Illinois for him so he natually thought the kennedy brothers would let them run amok but he did the unthinkable,going after the big inchiladas prosecuting key mob figures having Bobby do most the dirty work.They hated Bobby with a passion especially since again,he went after key mobsters like Santos Trafficanta deporting him from florida to another country.

Oh, so Joe Kennedy was the only person who knew about the deal struck with Giancana to deliver Illinois? John Kennedy didn't know a thing about it and you really believe that? I'm sorry, 9/11 but I give JFK credit for more brains than that. I think he knew exactly what his father was doing in Illinois.

The reason the mob hated the Kennedy's so much is that they DID welch on their deal with organized crime. That's part of the Kennedy family persona though...they've always felt that they made their own rules.

 

[Oldstyle]

JoeB did your love of Communism and Communist dictators begin before or after you were a Republican?

Guy, pointing out facts of history isn't a political t hing.

As a wise man said, you are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

Our Cuba Policy couldn't be worse if it was written by an angry retard.

If anything, our policies have probalby perpetuated Castro in power.

Because your average Cuban looks at the way a wealthy country punishes them and says, "Well, Castro might be a jerk, but he's OUR Jerk".

The average Cuban is afraid to even mention Castro by name, Joe. When they speak about him they rub their chins as if stroking a beard instead of saying his name because talking about Castro can put you in prison in Cuba. You'd know that if you ever visited the country! You think Castro's rule in Cuba has endured because the people love him...when the real reason that Castro has lasted as long as he has is that he is a brutal dictator who squashes any opposition without a second thought. His prisons are full of political prisoners who have done nothing except question his rule.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

someone farted in here.

 

[Oldstyle]

[

In order to have "rational" discussion, 9/11...first you have to start with two rational people. You don't fit that description unfortunately. You're one of those conspiracy nuts that wears tin foil hats and babbles about fake planes flying into the towers.

Joe thinks Castro and communism have been an improvement for the Cuban people. I've actually visited Cuba and know about the conditions that the people there live under. To say that it sucks would be an understatement. Was Battista a thug? Yes he was! But to try and paint Fidel Castro as any less of a thug is laughable. It's like saying that Stalin was better for the Russian people than Czar Nicolas II.

Well, let's look at that, Troll boy-

Stalin won World War II. He saved Russia for complete Annihlation at the hands of Hitler. As opposed to that fuckwad, inbred Czar who lost World War I and had to give up half of Russia's European Territories. Stalin got those territories back and then some. Russians look back at Stalin as the good old days when their power was unrivaled. He was recently voted the third greatest figure in Russian History. (This is despite the efforts of the Soviet and Russian governments to downplay him.)

Now, for Cuba. Does life in Cuba suck because Castro is evil, or because for 50 years, the US Government has threatened to sanction any company that does business there? Any rational person who doesn't look at the Cold War as their great High School Football game would say, definitely the latter.

So the Asshole Exile Community in Miami all rubbed their hands together (and maybe rubbed one out) when the USSR fell and said, "Oh, boy, when the checks stop coming from Moscow, the Cuban People will welcome us back with open arms!!!!"

And that didn't happen, for some reason. I wonder why.

If you knew your European history, Joe...you wouldn't make the statement that Stalin saved the Soviet Union. Stalin had 35,000 high ranking military officers executed between 1937 and 1941, leaving the Soviet military in total chaos and unable to defend itself at the start of war. The three men who saved the Soviet Union from total annihilation were Adolf Hitler himself (with his flawed tactics), Field Marshal Vasily Ivanovich Chuikov (who defeated the Germans at Stalingrad and turned the tide of the war) and FDR (who through the Lend Lease Act sent over 11 billion dollars worth of supplies to the Soviet Union). As usual your "knowledge" is sorely lacking.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

still another fart from the agent troll.

that means I have you on ignore since your obviously too stupid to figure that out.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

since kennedys name was mentioned and the subject here is reagan,this is from another poster I came across who has done his homework very well.

Eisenhower got us into Vietnam. People blame Johnson mostly because he escalated the war, but we were already involved there when he became president.

Nixon got us out, but Nixon was elected on the basis of his 'secret' plan to end the war. During the 1968 campaign he said he knew how to end it, but couldn't give the details for fear of tipping his hand to the enemy.

According to the memoirs of his own chief of staff, H.R. Haldemann, Nixon's plan all along was simply to declare victory and pull out. He held a cabinet meeting soon after his inauguration in 1969 and asked his cabinet members to comment. Henry Kissinger, then only a national security adviser, told him if he ended the war then he would cause a recession from the cutback in federal spending. Kissinger convinced Nixon to keep the war going another 4 years just so a recession wouldn't threaten his second term.

So in the end, more than half of our 50,000 US deaths, more than a million Vietnamise deaths, and by our own CIA's estimate, more than 600,000 deaths in Cambodia (-before- the rise of Pol Pot and the Kmer Rouge and all the 'killing fields' stuff), Nixon caused all that just to get his sorry a** re-elected to a second term. Which he couldn't even finish.

Also it was found that Nixon's people had been in touch with the North Vietnamise peace negotiators and had convinced them not to sign the treaty with Johnson. It's super illegal for a presidential campaign to influence foreign policy. Reagan's campaign did it too, in Iran.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

edit out.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

still another fart from the agent troll.

double edit out.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

"Reagan was a Keynesian"​

David Stockman

Read your history kiddies.

Reagan was big government spender and a tax increaser, too!

Stockman is a Moron​

 

[LA RAM FAN]

someone farted in here.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Oh, so you can co-opt the work of someone else and post it as if it was your own as long as it's not an "acedemic (sic) paper"? Good to know, Joe!


1) I'm reasonably sure I put a link on the first of those three quotes.

2) Only a complete retard would think I was passing it off as my own work. Oh. Wait Forgot who I was talking to here.

Part of the process of "refuting" links here, involves knowing where the link came from. It's pretty obvious at this point that you don't want to reveal where you got your info from which tells me you either cherry picked something or it's from a laughably bad source. I'm leaning towards the latter since you have to be getting all of your nonsense from somewhere.

Blah, blah, blah... look it up yourself. I'm sure if it's not from Glenn Beck or some other conservatard, you'd reject it. NExt.

I never said Cuba was a paradise under Battista. What I've simply pointed out is that the average Cuban was better off in many ways back then...then now. Communism has failed miserably in Cuba, Joe. The people endure extreme hardships because of Fidel Castro and his rejection of free market economies. That's not a political "viewpoint"...that's the reality of Cuba since the Soviet Union crumbled and stopped subsidizing the Cuban economy.[/QUOTE]

The reality is, Cuba is miserable because we've been punishing it for 50 years. Free Market Economies are not a panacea. Frankly, they'd suck if anyone really tried one. We certainly don't have one in this country.

 

[Toro]

The reality is, Cuba is miserable because we've been punishing it for 50 years. Free Market Economies are not a panacea. Frankly, they'd suck if anyone really tried one. We certainly don't have one in this country.

Cuba is miserable because communism sucks.

That's why virtually every country that tried communism has abandoned it.

 

[JoeB131]

The reality is, Cuba is miserable because we've been punishing it for 50 years. Free Market Economies are not a panacea. Frankly, they'd suck if anyone really tried one. We certainly don't have one in this country.

Cuba is miserable because communism sucks.

That's why virtually every country that tried communism has abandoned it.

Every country that tried unregulated capitalism has abandoned it, too.

They all realized you people need to be watched.

Cuba is miserable because we've been punishing them for 50 years for rejecting us.

I'm sure that makes you proud, but I don't take pleasure in starving children...

 

[Toro]

Every country that tried unregulated capitalism has abandoned it, too.

Irrelevant. We're talking about today, not 1890.

They all realized you people need to be watched.

You want to watch us count all the money?

Cuba is miserable because we've been punishing them for 50 years for rejecting us.

Capitalism rocks. One day, Cuba will get with the program.

I'm sure that makes you proud, but I don't take pleasure in starving children...

Since when did you care about children? You think its OK to terrorize kids.

We should abandon the trade embargo.

 

[Oldstyle]

The reality is, Cuba is miserable because we've been punishing it for 50 years. Free Market Economies are not a panacea. Frankly, they'd suck if anyone really tried one. We certainly don't have one in this country.

Cuba is miserable because communism sucks.

That's why virtually every country that tried communism has abandoned it.

Every country that tried unregulated capitalism has abandoned it, too.

They all realized you people need to be watched.

Cuba is miserable because we've been punishing them for 50 years for rejecting us.

I'm sure that makes you proud, but I don't take pleasure in starving children...

You know what's sad? You know so little about history everywhere...and yet you're here on this board holding forth like you do!

What ignorant people like you don't realize is that at first the US supported the Cuban revolutionaries. We had a ban on weapons sales to the Battista regime and were one of the first countries to recognize the new government in Havana following the takeover. The truth is it wasn't until Castro nationalized the assets of private companies and imposed a heavy tax on all US imports that the US responded by imposing trade restrictions on Cuba. I emphasize...that was a RESPONSE to the actions of the Castro regime! It wasn't something that was imposed because Castro overthrew Battista.

 

[Oldstyle]

It was Castro's decision to join the Soviet "camp", working out trade deals with them, that led to a severing of diplomatic relations between the US and Cuba. That state of affairs was continued in large part because of Castro's decision to export the revolution to places like Africa...sending Cuban troops there to fight to establish other communist countries. THAT is the reason why the embargo against Cuba went on and on even under US Presidents that wished to end it like Jimmy Carter!

The Cuban economy is "miserable" because of the actions of Fidel Castro over the decades since he seized power and the people of Cuba suffer because of those actions.

 

[JoeB131]

[

You know what's sad? You know so little about history everywhere...and yet you're here on this board holding forth like you do!

What ignorant people like you don't realize is that at first the US supported the Cuban revolutionaries. We had a ban on weapons sales to the Battista regime and were one of the first countries to recognize the new government in Havana following the takeover. The truth is it wasn't until Castro nationalized the assets of private companies and imposed a heavy tax on all US imports that the US responded by imposing trade restrictions on Cuba. I emphasize...that was a RESPONSE to the actions of the Castro regime! It wasn't something that was imposed because Castro overthrew Battista.

Dude, I have a degree in history from the university of Illinois. Now, mind you, it isn't one of those that teaching about talking snakes in Science Class, but it is what it is.

So let's get this straight. 75% of the arable land in Cuba was owned by foreign corporations, and the FIRST THING Castro did was give those back to the Cuban people. EEEEEEK, Communism.

Oh, yeah, and he imposed a tarriff on American goods to raise revenues. Again, can't see why that's a problem, exactly. We need to do that to protect our industries, but never mind.

Let's be honest about where it really all went south. Castro decided, "FUck you, I'm a communist!" and the US Reponse was to arm the asshole he had thrown out and try a counter-coup at the Bay of Pigs, where the Exiles PROMPTLY GOT THEIR ASSES HANDED TO THEM. At that point, Castro threw in with the USSR and let them set up missiles.

Now, after we thankfully stepped back from WWIII over our inability to admit that we fucked up, we decided that we were going to keep punishing Cuba economically. And then the USSR fell, but the asshole exile community got itself some political power, so we are STILL punishing Cuba.

 

[JoeB131]

It was Castro's decision to join the Soviet "camp", working out trade deals with them, that led to a severing of diplomatic relations between the US and Cuba. That state of affairs was continued in large part because of Castro's decision to export the revolution to places like Africa...sending Cuban troops there to fight to establish other communist countries. THAT is the reason why the embargo against Cuba went on and on even under US Presidents that wished to end it like Jimmy Carter!

The Cuban economy is "miserable" because of the actions of Fidel Castro over the decades since he seized power and the people of Cuba suffer because of those actions.

Okay that was still over 30 years ago.

What I find absolutely hilarious about guys like you and Toro is that man, you totally want to punish the fuck out of Cuba, and keep punishing Cuba because of EEEEKKKKKKK Communism...

But Communist China. Man, you fucks can't move American jobs over there fast enough. So what if they run over students with tanks and harvest people for transplant organs. They are willing to sacrifice the well-being of people to make money selling out to big corporations.

You know, one of these days, you might stop being a tool of big corporations. Just saying.

 

[Meathead]

Dude, I have a degree in history from the university of Illinois. Now, mind you, it isn't one of those that teaching about talking snakes in Science Class, but it is what it is.

Now that is funny! Anybody so patently stupid cannot have achieved anything more than high school, and that is allowing for Chicago public schooling.