Reason vs. Morality

[PratchettFan]

how is valid reasoning determined ?

Its is determined through the engagement in the processes of falsifiability and intelligence.

and who makes the final call ?

The person who has to make the choice.

 

[G.T.]

and who makes the final call ?

There isnt a final call.

sure there is---someone is either guilty or not. Jailed or freed

That's law.

That's not morality.

Law is a tool of morality, it is not morality itself.

 

[Zmrzlina]

What is a better reason for behaving correctly ?

Uhh, be a decent human being you sociopath.

what's the difference if you act correctly ?

Beside the fact that you are doing the right things for the wrong reasons, there is the issue of you following the toxic anti-social morality of the bronze age while living in the 21st century..

 

[Zmrzlina]

Behaving correctly because you fear consequences doled out by a supernatural entity in the afterlife is a morally bankrupt position.

I see.....the correct position is the Liberal one, "if it feels good, do it."


The result of believing that there is nothing greater than oneself is, for example, out of wedlock births.

Have you seen the data on the children of those events?



You're a moron.

Children born out of wedlock?! That's a red herring if I ever saw one. Learn how to debate you imbecile.

 

[dilloduck]

Uhh, be a decent human being you sociopath.

what's the difference if you act correctly ?

Beside the fact that you are doing the right things for the wrong reasons, there is the issue of you following the toxic anti-social morality of the bronze age while living in the 21st century..

My motive for my actions does not affect you in the least yet you condemn me for it ?

 

[Zmrzlina]

what's the difference if you act correctly ?

Beside the fact that you are doing the right things for the wrong reasons, there is the issue of you following the toxic anti-social morality of the bronze age while living in the 21st century..

My motive for my actions does not affect you in the least yet you condemn me for it ?

I'm more concerned about you abiding by an anti-social moral code better suited for the bronze-age.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

1. Reason or Morality....Which one should guide society?
Either our ability to use logic and reason, or obedience to the morality forged in the crucible of millennia of human interactions and experience?

I know....both would be nice. But, with secularism in the ascendancy, the cultural battle rarely allows for compromise.
...

Liberals choose both. We do not recognize the polarized nation you've fought so hard to create.

Without reason there can be no true morality that would serve the interests of mankind.

Without reason we'd be left with religion and we can see where religion without reason gets us: Islamic extremists (beheadings of others for simple disagreements), Israeli Jewish extremists (execution of an innocent child as retribution), and Christian extremists (bombings and shootings in America)

Which system of morality is it that liberals adhere to ? How to they determine good from evil ?

I'll go with

Liberals are not a monolithic bloc like the TPers. They range across the spectrum of religions and degrees of devoutness and include agnostics and atheists. So simplistic concepts like "good and evil" are more nuanced depending upon the individual. The individual right to believe (or not) is what is respected amongst liberals. They all have their own moral codes but they don't go around condemning others who don't believe as they do as being "evil".

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

[MENTION=1324]dilloduck[/MENTION]

Which system of morality is it that liberals adhere to ? How to they determine good from evil ?

Liberals are not a monolithic bloc like the TPers. They range across the spectrum of religions and degrees of devoutness and include agnostics and atheists. So simplistic concepts like "good and evil" are more nuanced depending upon the individual. The individual right to believe (or not) is what is respected amongst liberals. They all have their own moral codes but they don't go around condemning others who don't believe as they do as being "evil".

They much prefer to portray anyone with religious a belief as stupid and bigoted.

Don't be silly, religious people often do that very well all by themselves

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Which system of morality is it that liberals adhere to ? How to they determine good from evil ?

Liberals are not a monolithic bloc like the TPers. They range across the spectrum of religions and degrees of devoutness and include agnostics and atheists. So simplistic concepts like "good and evil" are more nuanced depending upon the individual. The individual right to believe (or not) is what is respected amongst liberals. They all have their own moral codes but they don't go around condemning others who don't believe as they do as being "evil".

Nuanced to the degree where they don't mean anything ? How about secular people. What is there system of morality based on ? Feeling good ?

If you don't really know, you are pathetic as well as ignorant

 

[dilloduck]

Beside the fact that you are doing the right things for the wrong reasons, there is the issue of you following the toxic anti-social morality of the bronze age while living in the 21st century..

My motive for my actions does not affect you in the least yet you condemn me for it ?

I'm more concerned about you abiding by an anti-social moral code better suited for the bronze-age.

Giving people food is anti social ?

 

[Derideo_Te]

Which system of morality is it that liberals adhere to ? How to they determine good from evil ?

Liberals are not a monolithic bloc like the TPers. They range across the spectrum of religions and degrees of devoutness and include agnostics and atheists. So simplistic concepts like "good and evil" are more nuanced depending upon the individual. The individual right to believe (or not) is what is respected amongst liberals. They all have their own moral codes but they don't go around condemning others who don't believe as they do as being "evil".

They much prefer to portray anyone with religious a belief as stupid and bigoted.

Stupidity and bigotry are not exclusive to theists. However religion is often used by stupid believers as an excuse for their bigotry.

 

[Derideo_Te]

It needs both. Reason without morality and morality without reason are both justifications for a bloodbath.

Try telling a liberal that. They would be perfect happily if religious people all left America.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Behaving correctly because you fear consequences doled out by a supernatural entity in the afterlife is a morally bankrupt position.

What is a better reason for behaving correctly ?

Being true to yourself.

 

[dilloduck]

Liberals are not a monolithic bloc like the TPers. They range across the spectrum of religions and degrees of devoutness and include agnostics and atheists. So simplistic concepts like "good and evil" are more nuanced depending upon the individual. The individual right to believe (or not) is what is respected amongst liberals. They all have their own moral codes but they don't go around condemning others who don't believe as they do as being "evil".

They much prefer to portray anyone with religious a belief as stupid and bigoted.

Stupidity and bigotry are not exclusive to theists. However religion is often used by stupid believers as an excuse for their bigotry.

and seculars have their own excuses for being assholes. same o same o

 

[Derideo_Te]

what's the difference if you act correctly ?

What's the difference? Your legacy and how its impacted other human beings is determined by the way you act, thus, you should act accordingly if you care about your legacy and a second reason would be that it's innate at this point to want to be a good person (it comes natural to most).

Aside from those reasons and barring those reasons, go ahead and be a bad ass and a lawful society will deal with you.

Would it make any difference if I gave you food because I wanted to be a decent human as opposed to giving you food so I could go to heaven ?

To the person receiving the food it makes no difference. To yourself there is a great deal of difference. The former is motivated by self improvement whereas the latter is motivated by fear.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Would it make any difference if I gave you food because I wanted to be a decent human as opposed to giving you food so I could go to heaven ?

Yes.

One act is selfless, the other is selfish.

and who would be able to tell the difference ?

If you lack the self awareness to tell the difference then that is your problem.