Reconstructing Q: Some Research Done

[hobelim]

Yeah and? That is what the Bible says too. Are you trying to say that the Bible is wrong about hell and there is really no hell? Because they clearly describe a place called "hell" or "hades" in the Bible. I suppose you, like so many other people, will tell me that these interpretations are incorrect or that is not what they really meant because YOU know this. Well, the common knowledge is that if you disobey the gods, you will be punished in a Hell type of place where there are devils, "gnashing of teeth", being "torn apart" and other such horrid things. Yeah, that's kind of scary when you are a child and you have your doubts about there being a god or not.

When Jesus spoke of Gehenna, hell, he was referring to a smoldering garbage dump in a valley outside the walls of the holy city, a place where every sort of foul and loathsome beast and bird calls home and feasts on corruption. Creatures in this place where the light doesn't shine think that the abundance of trash is evidence of them being blessed by God.


Its just a metaphor for the unenlightened state of mind of people who fill their minds with the vile and contaminating flesh of unclean creatures, like swine that do not ruminate, talking serpents, demons, or devils, etc., who then as a consequense degenerate into creepy critters that feed exclusively on garbage and end up in the dump where all garbage ends up.

"Flesh of unclean creatures." I understand that it is your idea that everything in the Bible is just a metaphor. I disagree. I think a lot of people believed and still do believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible, and I think that is what the "leaders" back then wanted, and that is where man made religions sprouted from. So, you and I have different ideas on what is up with this thousands year old book. Nobody REALLY knows for sure, and that is what I find annoying. How you seem to think your ideas are the ONLY valid ideas that exist. Well, were you alive back then? Are you privy to some information that nobody else really knows about? You are just taking ideas and opinions that you have read about and agree with and have adopted as your own and trying to tell me that there is just NO other explanation except for the ones that you agree with.

Its never been a secret that the Torah means instruction, not history.

It is also no secret that in every culture and language of every nation that ever existed people have compared other people to lower beasts to either praise or condemn ever since people could talk.

I've never read the Torah. I've asked a person to explain a little of it to me earlier in the thread but the person refused and would rather call me "dumb" and a "drunk" and other such things. Anyways, I am referring to the BIBLE. How else do you interpret "eternal damnation" and "being torn apart" and "writhing in agony"????

I see eternal condemnation conveying that for as long as a person perpetuates falsehood they will never find peace even if they should live forever.


Deception and pretense as a way of life will never result in anything other than suffering, confusion, corruption, and death for as long as heaven and earth endure.

 

[ChrisL]

"Flesh of unclean creatures." I understand that it is your idea that everything in the Bible is just a metaphor. I disagree. I think a lot of people believed and still do believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible, and I think that is what the "leaders" back then wanted, and that is where man made religions sprouted from. So, you and I have different ideas on what is up with this thousands year old book. Nobody REALLY knows for sure, and that is what I find annoying. How you seem to think your ideas are the ONLY valid ideas that exist. Well, were you alive back then? Are you privy to some information that nobody else really knows about? You are just taking ideas and opinions that you have read about and agree with and have adopted as your own and trying to tell me that there is just NO other explanation except for the ones that you agree with.

Picaro is only one of many who was taught what he is now presenting. You have heard similar things from me. The two of us do not live in a vacuum, but have been immersed in studies/philosophies that are available to all. So, no, we are not privy to information nobody else really knows about. It is readily available. All we are pointing out is that there are other explanations outside of the ones some others happened to accept, adopt, and agree with.

Sure if you believe in the supernatural. I am willing to accept that some people believe in supernatural entities and other such things. I would not force my beliefs upon you either. In fact, I feel guilt just for discussing it. I don't want to disrupt your "happy world" of heavens and other such wondrous miracles.

 

[ChrisL]

Yeah and? That is what the Bible says too. Are you trying to say that the Bible is wrong about hell and there is really no hell? Because they clearly describe a place called "hell" or "hades" in the Bible. I suppose you, like so many other people, will tell me that these interpretations are incorrect or that is not what they really meant because YOU know this. Well, the common knowledge is that if you disobey the gods, you will be punished in a Hell type of place where there are devils, "gnashing of teeth", being "torn apart" and other such horrid things. Yeah, that's kind of scary when you are a child and you have your doubts about there being a god or not.

When Jesus spoke of Gehenna, hell, he was referring to a smoldering garbage dump in a valley outside the walls of the holy city, a place where every sort of foul and loathsome beast and bird calls home and feasts on corruption. Creatures in this place where the light doesn't shine think that the abundance of trash is evidence of them being blessed by God.


Its just a metaphor for the unenlightened state of mind of people who fill their minds with the vile and contaminating flesh of unclean creatures, like swine that do not ruminate, talking serpents, demons, or devils, etc., who then as a consequense degenerate into creepy critters that feed exclusively on garbage and end up in the dump where all garbage ends up.

"Flesh of unclean creatures." I understand that it is your idea that everything in the Bible is just a metaphor. I disagree. I think a lot of people believed and still do believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible, and I think that is what the "leaders" back then wanted, and that is where man made religions sprouted from. So, you and I have different ideas on what is up with this thousands year old book. Nobody REALLY knows for sure, and that is what I find annoying. How you seem to think your ideas are the ONLY valid ideas that exist. Well, were you alive back then? Are you privy to some information that nobody else really knows about? You are just taking ideas and opinions that you have read about and agree with and have adopted as your own and trying to tell me that there is just NO other explanation except for the ones that you agree with.

Its never been a secret that the Torah means instruction, not history.

It is also no secret that in every culture and language of every nation that ever existed people have compared other people to lower beasts to either praise or condemn ever since people could talk.

I've never read the Torah. I've asked a person to explain a little of it to me earlier in the thread but the person refused and would rather call me "dumb" and a "drunk" and other such things. Anyways, I am referring to the BIBLE. How else do you interpret "eternal damnation" and "being torn apart" and "writhing in agony"????

I see eternal condemnation conveying that for as long as a person perpetuates falsehood they will never find peace even if they should live forever.


Deception and pretense as a way of life will never result in anything other than suffering, confusion, corruption, and death for as long as heaven and earth endure.

I feel that religion is deception and pretense.

 

[hobelim]

Yeah and? That is what the Bible says too. Are you trying to say that the Bible is wrong about hell and there is really no hell? Because they clearly describe a place called "hell" or "hades" in the Bible. I suppose you, like so many other people, will tell me that these interpretations are incorrect or that is not what they really meant because YOU know this. Well, the common knowledge is that if you disobey the gods, you will be punished in a Hell type of place where there are devils, "gnashing of teeth", being "torn apart" and other such horrid things. Yeah, that's kind of scary when you are a child and you have your doubts about there being a god or not.

When Jesus spoke of Gehenna, hell, he was referring to a smoldering garbage dump in a valley outside the walls of the holy city, a place where every sort of foul and loathsome beast and bird calls home and feasts on corruption. Creatures in this place where the light doesn't shine think that the abundance of trash is evidence of them being blessed by God.


Its just a metaphor for the unenlightened state of mind of people who fill their minds with the vile and contaminating flesh of unclean creatures, like swine that do not ruminate, talking serpents, demons, or devils, etc., who then as a consequense degenerate into creepy critters that feed exclusively on garbage and end up in the dump where all garbage ends up.

"Flesh of unclean creatures." I understand that it is your idea that everything in the Bible is just a metaphor. I disagree. I think a lot of people believed and still do believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible, and I think that is what the "leaders" back then wanted, and that is where man made religions sprouted from. So, you and I have different ideas on what is up with this thousands year old book. Nobody REALLY knows for sure, and that is what I find annoying. How you seem to think your ideas are the ONLY valid ideas that exist. Well, were you alive back then? Are you privy to some information that nobody else really knows about? You are just taking ideas and opinions that you have read about and agree with and have adopted as your own and trying to tell me that there is just NO other explanation except for the ones that you agree with.

Its never been a secret that the Torah means instruction, not history.

It is also no secret that in every culture and language of every nation that ever existed people have compared other people to lower beasts to either praise or condemn every since people could talk.

Such bull. There are also depictions of hell in actual pictures to go along with the scare tactics.

You are confusing what you were told by liars with what the subject is actually about. Go to the source and read it for yourself if you don't believe me,

 

[Meriweather]

Such bull. There are also depictions of hell in actual pictures to go along with the scare tactics.

This sounds like it is from the perspective of someone who has never had exist amidst evil and truly rotten things. Picture an existence of slavery, poverty, and abuse. What is more reassuring: Seeing those responsible for your misery in heavenly bliss? Or seeing they would be punished? Not all have an existence or the perspective of well-to-do modern America.

 

[ChrisL]

Yeah and? That is what the Bible says too. Are you trying to say that the Bible is wrong about hell and there is really no hell? Because they clearly describe a place called "hell" or "hades" in the Bible. I suppose you, like so many other people, will tell me that these interpretations are incorrect or that is not what they really meant because YOU know this. Well, the common knowledge is that if you disobey the gods, you will be punished in a Hell type of place where there are devils, "gnashing of teeth", being "torn apart" and other such horrid things. Yeah, that's kind of scary when you are a child and you have your doubts about there being a god or not.

When Jesus spoke of Gehenna, hell, he was referring to a smoldering garbage dump in a valley outside the walls of the holy city, a place where every sort of foul and loathsome beast and bird calls home and feasts on corruption. Creatures in this place where the light doesn't shine think that the abundance of trash is evidence of them being blessed by God.


Its just a metaphor for the unenlightened state of mind of people who fill their minds with the vile and contaminating flesh of unclean creatures, like swine that do not ruminate, talking serpents, demons, or devils, etc., who then as a consequense degenerate into creepy critters that feed exclusively on garbage and end up in the dump where all garbage ends up.

"Flesh of unclean creatures." I understand that it is your idea that everything in the Bible is just a metaphor. I disagree. I think a lot of people believed and still do believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible, and I think that is what the "leaders" back then wanted, and that is where man made religions sprouted from. So, you and I have different ideas on what is up with this thousands year old book. Nobody REALLY knows for sure, and that is what I find annoying. How you seem to think your ideas are the ONLY valid ideas that exist. Well, were you alive back then? Are you privy to some information that nobody else really knows about? You are just taking ideas and opinions that you have read about and agree with and have adopted as your own and trying to tell me that there is just NO other explanation except for the ones that you agree with.

Its never been a secret that the Torah means instruction, not history.

It is also no secret that in every culture and language of every nation that ever existed people have compared other people to lower beasts to either praise or condemn every since people could talk.

Such bull. There are also depictions of hell in actual pictures to go along with the scare tactics.

You are confusing what you were told by liars with what the subject is actually about. Go to the source and read it for yourself if you don't believe me,

You just don't get it do you? It's not one particular interpretation that I don't believe in. It is the WHOLE concept of there being a "god." I just don't tend to believe in that kind of stuff. I don't believe in gods. I don't believe in ghosts. I don't believe people are really "evil" even if they might seem like they are. I believe they are suffering from mental illness or some other "difficulties" in their heads, some "evil" people have even been found to have had brain tumors or other neurodebilitating diseases.

I don't believe in a lot of things that some other people might believe in.

 

[hobelim]

When Jesus spoke of Gehenna, hell, he was referring to a smoldering garbage dump in a valley outside the walls of the holy city, a place where every sort of foul and loathsome beast and bird calls home and feasts on corruption. Creatures in this place where the light doesn't shine think that the abundance of trash is evidence of them being blessed by God.


Its just a metaphor for the unenlightened state of mind of people who fill their minds with the vile and contaminating flesh of unclean creatures, like swine that do not ruminate, talking serpents, demons, or devils, etc., who then as a consequense degenerate into creepy critters that feed exclusively on garbage and end up in the dump where all garbage ends up.

"Flesh of unclean creatures." I understand that it is your idea that everything in the Bible is just a metaphor. I disagree. I think a lot of people believed and still do believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible, and I think that is what the "leaders" back then wanted, and that is where man made religions sprouted from. So, you and I have different ideas on what is up with this thousands year old book. Nobody REALLY knows for sure, and that is what I find annoying. How you seem to think your ideas are the ONLY valid ideas that exist. Well, were you alive back then? Are you privy to some information that nobody else really knows about? You are just taking ideas and opinions that you have read about and agree with and have adopted as your own and trying to tell me that there is just NO other explanation except for the ones that you agree with.

Its never been a secret that the Torah means instruction, not history.

It is also no secret that in every culture and language of every nation that ever existed people have compared other people to lower beasts to either praise or condemn ever since people could talk.

I've never read the Torah. I've asked a person to explain a little of it to me earlier in the thread but the person refused and would rather call me "dumb" and a "drunk" and other such things. Anyways, I am referring to the BIBLE. How else do you interpret "eternal damnation" and "being torn apart" and "writhing in agony"????

I see eternal condemnation conveying that for as long as a person perpetuates falsehood they will never find peace even if they should live forever.


Deception and pretense as a way of life will never result in anything other than suffering, confusion, corruption, and death for as long as heaven and earth endure.

I feel that religion is deception and pretense.

It has been ever since the Romans effectively neutered both Christianity and Judaism with their redactions, specious falsehoods, and perverse interpretations of the figurative language used in both the OT and NT that to this day remains above the grasp of the superstitious and the irrational.

 

[ChrisL]

"Flesh of unclean creatures." I understand that it is your idea that everything in the Bible is just a metaphor. I disagree. I think a lot of people believed and still do believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible, and I think that is what the "leaders" back then wanted, and that is where man made religions sprouted from. So, you and I have different ideas on what is up with this thousands year old book. Nobody REALLY knows for sure, and that is what I find annoying. How you seem to think your ideas are the ONLY valid ideas that exist. Well, were you alive back then? Are you privy to some information that nobody else really knows about? You are just taking ideas and opinions that you have read about and agree with and have adopted as your own and trying to tell me that there is just NO other explanation except for the ones that you agree with.

Its never been a secret that the Torah means instruction, not history.

It is also no secret that in every culture and language of every nation that ever existed people have compared other people to lower beasts to either praise or condemn ever since people could talk.

I've never read the Torah. I've asked a person to explain a little of it to me earlier in the thread but the person refused and would rather call me "dumb" and a "drunk" and other such things. Anyways, I am referring to the BIBLE. How else do you interpret "eternal damnation" and "being torn apart" and "writhing in agony"????

I see eternal condemnation conveying that for as long as a person perpetuates falsehood they will never find peace even if they should live forever.


Deception and pretense as a way of life will never result in anything other than suffering, confusion, corruption, and death for as long as heaven and earth endure.

I feel that religion is deception and pretense.

It has been ever since the Romans effectively neutered both Christianity and Judaism with their specious falsehoods and perverse interpretations of figurative language in both the OT and NT that to this day remains above the grasp of the superstitious and the irrational.

Like I said, it is really just the whole concept of "gods" that I don't believe in. Interpretations on this entity will vary. They will push the belief for different motives. Some good, some not so good.

 

[hobelim]

When Jesus spoke of Gehenna, hell, he was referring to a smoldering garbage dump in a valley outside the walls of the holy city, a place where every sort of foul and loathsome beast and bird calls home and feasts on corruption. Creatures in this place where the light doesn't shine think that the abundance of trash is evidence of them being blessed by God.


Its just a metaphor for the unenlightened state of mind of people who fill their minds with the vile and contaminating flesh of unclean creatures, like swine that do not ruminate, talking serpents, demons, or devils, etc., who then as a consequense degenerate into creepy critters that feed exclusively on garbage and end up in the dump where all garbage ends up.

"Flesh of unclean creatures." I understand that it is your idea that everything in the Bible is just a metaphor. I disagree. I think a lot of people believed and still do believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible, and I think that is what the "leaders" back then wanted, and that is where man made religions sprouted from. So, you and I have different ideas on what is up with this thousands year old book. Nobody REALLY knows for sure, and that is what I find annoying. How you seem to think your ideas are the ONLY valid ideas that exist. Well, were you alive back then? Are you privy to some information that nobody else really knows about? You are just taking ideas and opinions that you have read about and agree with and have adopted as your own and trying to tell me that there is just NO other explanation except for the ones that you agree with.

Its never been a secret that the Torah means instruction, not history.

It is also no secret that in every culture and language of every nation that ever existed people have compared other people to lower beasts to either praise or condemn every since people could talk.

Such bull. There are also depictions of hell in actual pictures to go along with the scare tactics.

You are confusing what you were told by liars with what the subject is actually about. Go to the source and read it for yourself if you don't believe me,

You just don't get it do you? It's not one particular interpretation that I don't believe in. It is the WHOLE concept of there being a "god." I just don't tend to believe in that kind of stuff. I don't believe in gods. I don't believe in ghosts. I don't believe people are really "evil" even if they might seem like they are. I believe they are suffering from mental illness or some other "difficulties" in their heads, some "evil" people have even been found to have had brain tumors or other neurodebilitating diseases.

I don't believe in a lot of things that some other people might believe in.

I can't say that I blame you given the fact that most religious people who profess to be saved say and do stupid things as if they were completely out of their tree.

I find this amusing reality evidence that scriptural warnings about hell is a verifiable truth...


For you to see what I see you would have to take another closer look.

 

[Meriweather]

Sure if you believe in the supernatural. I am willing to accept that some people believe in supernatural entities and other such things. I would not force my beliefs upon you either. In fact, I feel guilt just for discussing it. I don't want to disrupt your "happy world" of heavens and other such wondrous miracles.

Gehenna was not a supernatural place. It was the well-known dump located just outside the walls of Jerusalem. The people Jesus was talking with and teaching were well aware of the place. It is not the purpose here for anyone to force their beliefs on others. The purpose is to share differing experiences and perspectives, and sometimes (from very different beliefs) we can even find a common ground.

You have no need to feel guilt because you are not forcing your beliefs on me--you are sharing them with me, and I am obviously willing to listen. You are not disrupting a "happy world" (or an educated one) with a disbelief in an afterlife--or even miracles in this life.

 

[ChrisL]

"Flesh of unclean creatures." I understand that it is your idea that everything in the Bible is just a metaphor. I disagree. I think a lot of people believed and still do believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible, and I think that is what the "leaders" back then wanted, and that is where man made religions sprouted from. So, you and I have different ideas on what is up with this thousands year old book. Nobody REALLY knows for sure, and that is what I find annoying. How you seem to think your ideas are the ONLY valid ideas that exist. Well, were you alive back then? Are you privy to some information that nobody else really knows about? You are just taking ideas and opinions that you have read about and agree with and have adopted as your own and trying to tell me that there is just NO other explanation except for the ones that you agree with.

Its never been a secret that the Torah means instruction, not history.

It is also no secret that in every culture and language of every nation that ever existed people have compared other people to lower beasts to either praise or condemn every since people could talk.

Such bull. There are also depictions of hell in actual pictures to go along with the scare tactics.

You are confusing what you were told by liars with what the subject is actually about. Go to the source and read it for yourself if you don't believe me,

You just don't get it do you? It's not one particular interpretation that I don't believe in. It is the WHOLE concept of there being a "god." I just don't tend to believe in that kind of stuff. I don't believe in gods. I don't believe in ghosts. I don't believe people are really "evil" even if they might seem like they are. I believe they are suffering from mental illness or some other "difficulties" in their heads, some "evil" people have even been found to have had brain tumors or other neurodebilitating diseases.

I don't believe in a lot of things that some other people might believe in.

I can't say that I blame you given the fact that most religious people who profess to be saved say and do stupid things as if they were completely out of their tree.

I find this amusing reality evidence that scriptural warnings about hell is the truth...


For you to see what I see you would have to take another closer look.

Well, all I can say is how do you know your interpretation is the correct one or the one intended?

 

[hobelim]

Its never been a secret that the Torah means instruction, not history.

It is also no secret that in every culture and language of every nation that ever existed people have compared other people to lower beasts to either praise or condemn every since people could talk.

Such bull. There are also depictions of hell in actual pictures to go along with the scare tactics.

You are confusing what you were told by liars with what the subject is actually about. Go to the source and read it for yourself if you don't believe me,

You just don't get it do you? It's not one particular interpretation that I don't believe in. It is the WHOLE concept of there being a "god." I just don't tend to believe in that kind of stuff. I don't believe in gods. I don't believe in ghosts. I don't believe people are really "evil" even if they might seem like they are. I believe they are suffering from mental illness or some other "difficulties" in their heads, some "evil" people have even been found to have had brain tumors or other neurodebilitating diseases.

I don't believe in a lot of things that some other people might believe in.

I can't say that I blame you given the fact that most religious people who profess to be saved say and do stupid things as if they were completely out of their tree.

I find this amusing reality evidence that scriptural warnings about hell is the truth...


For you to see what I see you would have to take another closer look.

Well, all I can say is how do you know your interpretation is the correct one or the one intended?

I have heeded the instruction in the law, climbed Jacobs ladder to that happy home in the sky, and I have, in my possession, the goose that lays the golden eggs to prove it.

 

[Meriweather]

Well, all I can say is how do you know your interpretation is the correct one or the one intended?

By incorporating the belief in the interpretation into one's own personal life and evaluating the result in one's own life.

 

[ChrisL]

Well, all I can say is how do you know your interpretation is the correct one or the one intended?

By incorporating the belief in the interpretation into one's own personal life and evaluating the result in one's own life.

That's not necessarily true though. I've known plenty of religious people who have the same hardships as anyone else in this life. I mean, everyone has their own way of dealing with their problems. Some are successful, some resort to doing more self destructive things. I don't think that has much to do with a belief but more in the way you conduct yourself.

You do realize that people without a belief in a god can conduct themselves in a civilized manner too? We can figure out how to solve problems and how to cope with bad situations without self destructing too.

 

[ChrisL]

Do you guys think that people who don't believe in god end up in some "firey dump" somewhere, being unsuccessful, drug addicted, and sad and miserable and depressed all the time? Is that correct?

 

[hobelim]

I don't think that has much to do with a belief but more in the way you conduct yourself.

Every action is preceded by a thought like a strap that binds your hand.

What a person believes has everything thing to do with how they conduct themselves.

How a person conducts themselves demonstrates their beliefs whatever they may or may not express.

 

[hobelim]

Do you guys think that people who don't believe in god end up in some "firey dump" somewhere, being unsuccessful, drug addicted, and sad and miserable and depressed all the time? Is that correct?

if your expressed animosity and confusion is any indication you certainly aren't in heaven...

 

[ChrisL]

I don't think that has much to do with a belief but more in the way you conduct yourself.

Every action is preceded by a thought.

What a person believes has everything thing to do with how they conduct themselves.

How a person conducts themselves demonstrates their beliefs whatever they may or may not express.

Well I and I'm sure plenty of other people who don't believe in gods know exactly how to conduct ourselves. In fact, I've overcome quite a few obstacles in my life. I'm not sad or depressed most of the time. I have a good relationship with my family. I live in a house and not in a dump. Lol. I go to work. I have a pet rabbit and I just live a regular boring life like anyone else.

 

[ChrisL]

Do you guys think that people who don't believe in god end up in some "firey dump" somewhere, being unsuccessful, drug addicted, and sad and miserable and depressed all the time? Is that correct?

if your expressed animosity and confusion is any indication you certainly aren't in heaven...

I am not the one who is expressing animosity here, bud. I think you need to go back and read the posts that I put altogether and posted for you all to peruse. I've already proven THAT to be a false allegation. Me getting heated in a disagreement doesn't equal any animosity. Lol. That's a pretty big jump and a pretty arrogant conclusion too.

 

[ChrisL]

The "arrogance" of religious people is what I find the most annoying about them. As if they are living a better life, when that is not true. There are plenty of miserable "believers" out there. Lol. Plenty of people go to church every Sunday and claim they have "religion" but are miserable fuckers.