Reconstructing Q: Some Research Done

[ChrisL]

And THESE are the people who think they are going to some "heavenly" afterlife because they are "good." Good GAWD. I think Hell sounds like more fun than spending an eternity with these kinds of people. In fact, an eternity spent with these kinds of people would be the very definition of HELL. Lol.

 

[hobelim]

Try to look at it as an extraterrestrial intervention on a planet filled with semi intelligent beings running amok for millions of years.

God is a living being that loves us like you would love an idiot son who most likely will disregard your advice and set aside your teaching and end up in a world of self inflicted hurt.

Some people just have to learn the hard way. That is not reflection of a flaw or an indication of malevolence in the teacher.

Idiot son? Hey I've been called worse.

But you really didn't answer the questions though and your analogy is flawed since the ETs didn't create me.

I doubt God is a living being in any sense of our conception of living. Maybe in the sense that the universe is 'living'. But you are right, some people just have to learn the hard way. Unjustly it is God who makes it hard, not us. God refuses to reveal himself (where's my burning bush?) and allows alternative versions of himself, each with different mores. How can I disregard his advice and set aside his teaching if I don't know what they are? This system is deeply flawed.

I wasn't calling you an idiot son, I was making an analogy about the relationship between God and human beings in general, including me.

And I didn't say that ET's created you, I said look at Genesis as if the creation of the concept of heaven and earth, a world above and a world below, was an extraterrestrial intervention on our existing species that had been running amok like wild animals without a clue, "darkness covered the face of the deep", for the previous millions of years.

If you don't know what his teachings are, look and look and keep on looking util you find it. In the meantime use the common sense that God gave a rodent to figure out what his teachings cannot possibly be about.


If you don't look you will surely find nothing.

Sorry I neglected to put a after the idiot son reply. I understood what you meant and was not insulted.

I've always had a chicken and egg problem with faith. You must first believe in it before you can experience it. Awkwardly put but put another way, there is no rational path to religion, you must take on faith what you can not see with your own senses and which actually flies in the face of everything you've ever experienced.

It may be that some claim you must believe in it before you can experience it but thats not what I am telling you. Neither am I asking you to take on faith what you cannot see with your senses. I am telling you that you must follow the instruction in the law to prepare your mind to perceive God, who is spirit, with your mind.

If you were a scientist who wanted to discover the truth about something, you would first have to sterilize the laboratory,calibrate the instruments and beakers , cleanse the lens of your microscope and then conduct your experiment.

If you do not take the time and go through the trouble of purifying the environment the results would inevitably be contaminated and false.

In the same way you must purify and cleanse your mind, the only instrument in existence capable of such an inquiry, calibrate and update your knowledge of reality, and then try to understand the instruction in the law according to the revelation about the figurative language used and then do it.

You must follow the instruction in the law to receive the life promised for compliance. If you do it, you will see God everywhere; if you don't, you won't see God anywhere.

Remember what Jesus said?

"Blessed are the pure of mind for they shall see God." Not scoffers, liars, sorcerers, dogs, or dingbats...

 

[ChrisL]

^^^

And yet another example of religious nut bags thinking they are "blessed" by their invisible entity, therefore "better" than their fellow humans. This is just one example of why religious beliefs are a SCOURGE upon society. The biggest and MOST successful con of all is man made religion.

 

[hobelim]

^^^

And yet another example of religious nut bags thinking they are "blessed" by their invisible entity, therefore "better" than their fellow humans. This is just one example of why religious beliefs are a SCOURGE upon society. The biggest and MOST successful con of all is man made religion.

You don't even have the sense to be embarrassed by the stupid things that you say.

Religion doesn't make me feel blessed, the expressed contents of your addled mind make me feel blessed.

And I didn't have to wait to die. lol....


I see my beliefs conform to and confirmed by reality every day.

 

[ChrisL]

Yes, we hear and see examples of people who think they've "talked to god" and had "visions" and saw god, etc. People like Andrea Yates.

 

[Indeependent]

You can see atoms forming molecules?
I'm impressed.
You can see air?
Infrared? Ultraviolet?
You can see the molecules you smell?

You see, the leap of faith is in your face even when God is not in the picture.

I can do everything known to science for myself, given enough time and money. I took chemistry and saw molecules form, some of them esters. I can blow on a pinwheel or take pictures with infrared film. I can build detectors sensitive to ultraviolet light. No faith is required.

In my life I've never encountered ANYTHING that was clearly supernatural. Plenty of things I couldn't explain but that doesn't mean they are supernatural.

I consider existence to be supernatural.
I have yet to meet or Google a scientist that can state with a straight face that the universe is mathematically possible...because it isn't.

 

[ChrisL]

In this page we look at how religious delusions manifest themselves in many people suffering from the effects of psychotic thinking. In our related information sheets such as Spirituality in Schizophrenia: A Christian Perspective, other writers give their own accounts of how their spiritual and religious beliefs have helped them.

It is often said that a person with schizophrenia will go to see a priest before they see a psychiatrist. (Image: Kzenon on Shutterstock)

It is often said that a person experiencing the first stages of serious schizophrenia is more likely to go to see a priest than a psychiatrist1. This is because the delusions suffered by people with schizophrenia often have a religious content. Sufferers may believe that they are a saint, a prophet or God himself, (which is more common in men), or (in women) that they are a saint or are pregnant with the Messiah.

Sometimes the person may believe that they are being punished for some unforgivable sin that they have committed earlier in their life or that they are damned to everlasting hell.2 This can lead to feelings of intense despondency. In other cases the sufferer may believe that others around them are devils or witches and may attack them or that they themselves are possessed by devils.

There is an amusing story from the 1980s of two patients meeting for the first time on a psychiatric ward who, after telling each other their story immediately fell into an altercation with one patient accusing the other of being an imposter: “how can you be Jesus Christ?” he said, I am Christ.2.

How common are religious delusions in schizophrenia?

Various studies have found that the prevalence of religious delusions in schizophrenia is very high. Torrey in the US, for instance, has suggested that around half of sufferers there experience religious delusions.1 Other studies in other parts of the world have found differently. Mohr and Huguelet in Switzerland found the prevalence to be around 21% (this was probably representative of the overall prevalence in Western Europe)4 and Rudaleviciene and his colleagues in Lithuania found it to be as high as 64% there.5

Whatever the figures may be for an individual country it is clearly a trait that is very common in schizophrenia and psychiatrists encounter it so frequently that they have come up with a name for it: religiosity or religious preoccupation. Religiosity is definitely not new. The early psychiatrists in the 19th century observed the phenomenon although it was not thought to be quite as common then as now.6

Religiosity and psychiatry: How is religiosity diagnosed?

Psychiatry and religion have traditionally been ill at ease with each other and in today’s increasingly secular society which the UK has undoubtedly become many mental health professionals feel uncomfortable when dealing with the issue of religiosity and have difficulty in understanding it in the context of the whole person.

Religious and Spiritual Delusions in Schizophrenia - Living With Schizophrenia

Not that all religious people (some of them actually do at least TRY to walk the walk) are delusional psychos, but there are definitely a lot of "grandiose" people spouting off a lot of anger towards those of us who deny their belief system. Kind of scary to think they could be dangerous to non believers, thinking we are "devils" or "evil." Notice how they try to character assassinate those who disagree with them? Part of their thinking process.

 

[alang1216]

Try to look at it as an extraterrestrial intervention on a planet filled with semi intelligent beings running amok for millions of years.

God is a living being that loves us like you would love an idiot son who most likely will disregard your advice and set aside your teaching and end up in a world of self inflicted hurt.

Some people just have to learn the hard way. That is not reflection of a flaw or an indication of malevolence in the teacher.

Idiot son? Hey I've been called worse.

But you really didn't answer the questions though and your analogy is flawed since the ETs didn't create me.

I doubt God is a living being in any sense of our conception of living. Maybe in the sense that the universe is 'living'. But you are right, some people just have to learn the hard way. Unjustly it is God who makes it hard, not us. God refuses to reveal himself (where's my burning bush?) and allows alternative versions of himself, each with different mores. How can I disregard his advice and set aside his teaching if I don't know what they are? This system is deeply flawed.

I wasn't calling you an idiot son, I was making an analogy about the relationship between God and human beings in general, including me.

And I didn't say that ET's created you, I said look at Genesis as if the creation of the concept of heaven and earth, a world above and a world below, was an extraterrestrial intervention on our existing species that had been running amok like wild animals without a clue, "darkness covered the face of the deep", for the previous millions of years.

If you don't know what his teachings are, look and look and keep on looking util you find it. In the meantime use the common sense that God gave a rodent to figure out what his teachings cannot possibly be about.


If you don't look you will surely find nothing.

Sorry I neglected to put a after the idiot son reply. I understood what you meant and was not insulted.

I've always had a chicken and egg problem with faith. You must first believe in it before you can experience it. Awkwardly put but put another way, there is no rational path to religion, you must take on faith what you can not see with your own senses and which actually flies in the face of everything you've ever experienced.

It may be that some claim you must believe in it before you can experience it but thats not what I am telling you. Neither am I asking you to take on faith what you cannot see with your senses. I am telling you that you must follow the instruction in the law to prepare your mind to perceive God who is spirit with your mind.

If you were a scientist who wanted to discover the truth about something, you would first have to sterilize the laboratory,calibrate the instruments and beakers , cleanse the lens of your microscope and then conduct your experiment.

If you do not take the time and go through the trouble of purifying the environment the results would inevitably be contaminated and false.

In the same way you must cleanse your mind, calibrate your existing knowledge of reality, and then try to understand the instruction in the law according to the revelation about the figurative language used and then do it.

You must follow the instruction in the law to receive the life promised for compliance.

Remember what Jesus said?

"Blessed are the pure of mind for they shall see God." Not scoffers, liars, sorcerers, dogs, or dingbats...

I understand what you're saying but it is still a chicken and egg problem for me. I need to decide which path leads to God before I can start out on that path. I'm guessing that every religion would say they are the correct path.

 

[ChrisL]

Try to look at it as an extraterrestrial intervention on a planet filled with semi intelligent beings running amok for millions of years.

God is a living being that loves us like you would love an idiot son who most likely will disregard your advice and set aside your teaching and end up in a world of self inflicted hurt.

Some people just have to learn the hard way. That is not reflection of a flaw or an indication of malevolence in the teacher.

Idiot son? Hey I've been called worse.

But you really didn't answer the questions though and your analogy is flawed since the ETs didn't create me.

I doubt God is a living being in any sense of our conception of living. Maybe in the sense that the universe is 'living'. But you are right, some people just have to learn the hard way. Unjustly it is God who makes it hard, not us. God refuses to reveal himself (where's my burning bush?) and allows alternative versions of himself, each with different mores. How can I disregard his advice and set aside his teaching if I don't know what they are? This system is deeply flawed.

I wasn't calling you an idiot son, I was making an analogy about the relationship between God and human beings in general, including me.

And I didn't say that ET's created you, I said look at Genesis as if the creation of the concept of heaven and earth, a world above and a world below, was an extraterrestrial intervention on our existing species that had been running amok like wild animals without a clue, "darkness covered the face of the deep", for the previous millions of years.

If you don't know what his teachings are, look and look and keep on looking util you find it. In the meantime use the common sense that God gave a rodent to figure out what his teachings cannot possibly be about.


If you don't look you will surely find nothing.

Sorry I neglected to put a after the idiot son reply. I understood what you meant and was not insulted.

I've always had a chicken and egg problem with faith. You must first believe in it before you can experience it. Awkwardly put but put another way, there is no rational path to religion, you must take on faith what you can not see with your own senses and which actually flies in the face of everything you've ever experienced.

It may be that some claim you must believe in it before you can experience it but thats not what I am telling you. Neither am I asking you to take on faith what you cannot see with your senses. I am telling you that you must follow the instruction in the law to prepare your mind to perceive God who is spirit with your mind.

If you were a scientist who wanted to discover the truth about something, you would first have to sterilize the laboratory,calibrate the instruments and beakers , cleanse the lens of your microscope and then conduct your experiment.

If you do not take the time and go through the trouble of purifying the environment the results would inevitably be contaminated and false.

In the same way you must cleanse your mind, calibrate your existing knowledge of reality, and then try to understand the instruction in the law according to the revelation about the figurative language used and then do it.

You must follow the instruction in the law to receive the life promised for compliance.

Remember what Jesus said?

"Blessed are the pure of mind for they shall see God." Not scoffers, liars, sorcerers, dogs, or dingbats...

I understand what you're saying but it is still a chicken and egg problem for me. I need to decide which path leads to God before I can start out on that path. I'm guessing that every religion would say they are the correct path.

Do you not understand that he is insulting you in a subtle way. IOW, you are an ignorant sloth because you are not listening to HIS words about the existence of gods and the "right path" in which to follow regarding your own life! This person is actually claiming that if you haven't "seen" Gods, then you are a "scumbag." That is what it boils down to.

""Blessed are the pure of mind for they shall see God." Not scoffers, liars, sorcerers, dogs, or dingbats..."

 

[hobelim]

Yes, we hear and see examples of people who think they've "talked to god" and had "visions" and saw god, etc. People like Andrea Yates.

Sure, and I've seen people who can't figure out the meaning of a talking serpent in what amounts to a fairy tale even after the great mystery was openly revealed to them many times....


And some people don't believe in curses...

Imagine that!

 

[ChrisL]

They are telling you, "if you don't believe or if you don't believe in MY version of god, then you are not worthy." This is what they are telling us if you want to simplify it to a basic level.

 

[alang1216]

I consider existence to be supernatural.
I have yet to meet or Google a scientist that can state with a straight face that the universe is mathematically possible...because it isn't.

Sounds a bit like a God of the gaps argument. And this gap too may be closed. In the new work, The Grand Design, Professor Stephen Hawking argues that the Big Bang, rather than occurring following the intervention of a divine being, was inevitable due to the law of gravity.

 

[ChrisL]

Yes, we hear and see examples of people who think they've "talked to god" and had "visions" and saw god, etc. People like Andrea Yates.

Sure, and I've seen people who can't figure out the meaning of a talking serpent in what amounts to a fairy tale even after the great mystery was openly revealed to them many times....


And some people don't believe in curses...

Imagine that!

Yes, I get it. Your "talking serpent" is a metaphor for nonbelievers. Is that right?

 

[hobelim]

Try to look at it as an extraterrestrial intervention on a planet filled with semi intelligent beings running amok for millions of years.

God is a living being that loves us like you would love an idiot son who most likely will disregard your advice and set aside your teaching and end up in a world of self inflicted hurt.

Some people just have to learn the hard way. That is not reflection of a flaw or an indication of malevolence in the teacher.

Idiot son? Hey I've been called worse.

But you really didn't answer the questions though and your analogy is flawed since the ETs didn't create me.

I doubt God is a living being in any sense of our conception of living. Maybe in the sense that the universe is 'living'. But you are right, some people just have to learn the hard way. Unjustly it is God who makes it hard, not us. God refuses to reveal himself (where's my burning bush?) and allows alternative versions of himself, each with different mores. How can I disregard his advice and set aside his teaching if I don't know what they are? This system is deeply flawed.

I wasn't calling you an idiot son, I was making an analogy about the relationship between God and human beings in general, including me.

And I didn't say that ET's created you, I said look at Genesis as if the creation of the concept of heaven and earth, a world above and a world below, was an extraterrestrial intervention on our existing species that had been running amok like wild animals without a clue, "darkness covered the face of the deep", for the previous millions of years.

If you don't know what his teachings are, look and look and keep on looking util you find it. In the meantime use the common sense that God gave a rodent to figure out what his teachings cannot possibly be about.


If you don't look you will surely find nothing.

Sorry I neglected to put a after the idiot son reply. I understood what you meant and was not insulted.

I've always had a chicken and egg problem with faith. You must first believe in it before you can experience it. Awkwardly put but put another way, there is no rational path to religion, you must take on faith what you can not see with your own senses and which actually flies in the face of everything you've ever experienced.

It may be that some claim you must believe in it before you can experience it but thats not what I am telling you. Neither am I asking you to take on faith what you cannot see with your senses. I am telling you that you must follow the instruction in the law to prepare your mind to perceive God who is spirit with your mind.

If you were a scientist who wanted to discover the truth about something, you would first have to sterilize the laboratory,calibrate the instruments and beakers , cleanse the lens of your microscope and then conduct your experiment.

If you do not take the time and go through the trouble of purifying the environment the results would inevitably be contaminated and false.

In the same way you must cleanse your mind, calibrate your existing knowledge of reality, and then try to understand the instruction in the law according to the revelation about the figurative language used and then do it.

You must follow the instruction in the law to receive the life promised for compliance.

Remember what Jesus said?

"Blessed are the pure of mind for they shall see God." Not scoffers, liars, sorcerers, dogs, or dingbats...

I understand what you're saying but it is still a chicken and egg problem for me. I need to decide which path leads to God before I can start out on that path. I'm guessing that every religion would say they are the correct path.

I can see that you already are living a kosher life by standing guard over what teaching you would or would not give a place in your mind. Don't you believe in what you already do? You are already on the path to life.

Screw religion.

Continue seeking the truth. You'll be just fine.... God has be aware of your efforts ever since the very first day you began to diligently apply your mind to understand. Keep at it and he will open your eyes to see what has always been there...

 

[hobelim]

Yes, we hear and see examples of people who think they've "talked to god" and had "visions" and saw god, etc. People like Andrea Yates.

Sure, and I've seen people who can't figure out the meaning of a talking serpent in what amounts to a fairy tale even after the great mystery was openly revealed to them many times....


And some people don't believe in curses...

Imagine that!

Yes, I get it. Your "talking serpent" is a metaphor for nonbelievers. Is that right?

No, the talking serpent is a metaphor for the type of religious deceivers that you object to, whoever messed up your mind.

 

[ChrisL]

Yes, we hear and see examples of people who think they've "talked to god" and had "visions" and saw god, etc. People like Andrea Yates.

Sure, and I've seen people who can't figure out the meaning of a talking serpent in what amounts to a fairy tale even after the great mystery was openly revealed to them many times....


And some people don't believe in curses...

Imagine that!

Yes, I get it. Your "talking serpent" is a metaphor for nonbelievers. Is that right?

No, the talking serpent is a metaphor for the type of religious deceivers that you object to, whoever messed up your mind.

Oh, so someone must have screwed with my mind. Is this related to the fact that I'm a woman or something? Do you think I am incapable of coming to independent thought doing my own research and forming my own opinions based on such? I am sorry if it is offensive for you, but I believe in the scientific explanations, and not the religious ones.

 

[ChrisL]

Just like when watching a magic show, while I may feel amazed and in awe at the magic tricks and wish they could be "real" because it would be pretty cool if they were, I know deep down that there is a trick and an illusion involved. That is rather how I feel about religion. I don't "hate" religion. In fact, there are a lot of things about it that I think are good and that I agree with. I do feel some people probably do NEED religion in their lives for whatever reasons, but I don't really believe in any of it. I don't believe in magic tricks either . . . or ghosts or that transgenders are actually the opposite sex. All wishful thinking which, I suppose, is pretty normal for humans but don't expect everyone else to follow along and then insinuate that we are bad if we don't. That is SHITTY and makes you a SHITTY person.

 

[Indeependent]

I consider existence to be supernatural.
I have yet to meet or Google a scientist that can state with a straight face that the universe is mathematically possible...because it isn't.

Sounds a bit like a God of the gaps argument. And this gap too may be closed. In the new work, The Grand Design, Professor Stephen Hawking argues that the Big Bang, rather than occurring following the intervention of a divine being, was inevitable due to the law of gravity.

What causes the existence of gravity?

 

[alang1216]

Idiot son? Hey I've been called worse.

But you really didn't answer the questions though and your analogy is flawed since the ETs didn't create me.

I doubt God is a living being in any sense of our conception of living. Maybe in the sense that the universe is 'living'. But you are right, some people just have to learn the hard way. Unjustly it is God who makes it hard, not us. God refuses to reveal himself (where's my burning bush?) and allows alternative versions of himself, each with different mores. How can I disregard his advice and set aside his teaching if I don't know what they are? This system is deeply flawed.

I wasn't calling you an idiot son, I was making an analogy about the relationship between God and human beings in general, including me.

And I didn't say that ET's created you, I said look at Genesis as if the creation of the concept of heaven and earth, a world above and a world below, was an extraterrestrial intervention on our existing species that had been running amok like wild animals without a clue, "darkness covered the face of the deep", for the previous millions of years.

If you don't know what his teachings are, look and look and keep on looking util you find it. In the meantime use the common sense that God gave a rodent to figure out what his teachings cannot possibly be about.


If you don't look you will surely find nothing.

Sorry I neglected to put a after the idiot son reply. I understood what you meant and was not insulted.

I've always had a chicken and egg problem with faith. You must first believe in it before you can experience it. Awkwardly put but put another way, there is no rational path to religion, you must take on faith what you can not see with your own senses and which actually flies in the face of everything you've ever experienced.

It may be that some claim you must believe in it before you can experience it but thats not what I am telling you. Neither am I asking you to take on faith what you cannot see with your senses. I am telling you that you must follow the instruction in the law to prepare your mind to perceive God who is spirit with your mind.

If you were a scientist who wanted to discover the truth about something, you would first have to sterilize the laboratory,calibrate the instruments and beakers , cleanse the lens of your microscope and then conduct your experiment.

If you do not take the time and go through the trouble of purifying the environment the results would inevitably be contaminated and false.

In the same way you must cleanse your mind, calibrate your existing knowledge of reality, and then try to understand the instruction in the law according to the revelation about the figurative language used and then do it.

You must follow the instruction in the law to receive the life promised for compliance.

Remember what Jesus said?

"Blessed are the pure of mind for they shall see God." Not scoffers, liars, sorcerers, dogs, or dingbats...

I understand what you're saying but it is still a chicken and egg problem for me. I need to decide which path leads to God before I can start out on that path. I'm guessing that every religion would say they are the correct path.

I can see that you already are living a kosher life by standing guard over what teaching you would or would not give a place in your mind. Don't you believe in what you already do? You are already on the path to life.

Screw religion.

Continue seeking the truth. You'll be just fine.... God has be aware of your efforts ever since the very first day you began to diligently apply your mind to understand. Keep at it and he will open your eyes to see what has always been there...

Wow, best news I've had today, thanks. But I could never give up shellfish to be kosher. If lobster is a sin, condemn me right now.

 

[alang1216]

I consider existence to be supernatural.
I have yet to meet or Google a scientist that can state with a straight face that the universe is mathematically possible...because it isn't.

Sounds a bit like a God of the gaps argument. And this gap too may be closed. In the new work, The Grand Design, Professor Stephen Hawking argues that the Big Bang, rather than occurring following the intervention of a divine being, was inevitable due to the law of gravity.

What causes the existence of gravity?

Gravity is most accurately described by the general theory of relativity (proposed by Albert Einstein in 1915) which describes gravity not as a force, but as a consequence of the curvature of spacetime caused by the uneven distribution of mass.

Certainly there are gaps in our scientific knowledge but do you believe we will never close those gaps?