Relax, Paula Deen is just being Jimmy The Greeked!

[tinydancer]

Because it was law it wasn't racism? Really? Do you understand exactly what racism is?

Oh gosh.

The US has had all kinds of racist laws, what does that have to do with the CSA? Do you think plantation owners, who legally bought slaves because that's how we harvested cotton, were "racists" while people who didn't buy slaves, weren't? Did any of those people buy slave-produced cotton, or profit from the trade of it in any way? Then they are just as duplicitous. Did all the "non-racists" rise up and demand a Constitutional Amendment from our government before the Civil War?

Yes. I understand what "racism" is, do you? It's the belief that one race is superior or inferior to another, and curious fucking thing about 1860s America, pretty much everyone believed blacks were inferior to whites, including Lincoln himself. See... Here you are attempting to use slavery as the scapegoat... see? we outlawed slavery, we're not racists anymore! The majority of those opposed to slavery, were not opposed because they weren't racists. Most were simply incensed by the abhorrent practice of enslaving humans. I don't like dog fighting...doesn't mean I think dogs should get to vote.

Do you want to know about the first time black people were invited to the White House? A group of black leaders was selected and invited by President Lincoln, a short time before the Civil War. They were not allowed to speak. They met with the President, who informed them of his plan to repatriate freed slaves (and other free black men) to a parcel of land in Central America, which the US had acquisitioned for the endeavor. He wanted to encourage them to support his effort by leading hoards of black people off to some primitive armpit.... far away from the white folk. So this was YOUR guy's idea of "brotherly love" in those days.

Yeah..the south was absolutely fighting for the right to enslave people.

They were also the aggressors and they were traitors.

Re writing history doesn't help your cause.

Well, hard head, no they weren't. They already had the right, it was law of the land. How can they be fighting for something they already had? There was no treason and the South were not aggressors, they simply declared independence. They had no intent of taking control of the Union, overthrowing the Union government or anything else. You will find nothing in any succession document speaking of controlling or even attacking the Union. It was purely defensive posture, we will defend our State sovereignty. So you've not made your case here, and if you would like to submit something to do so, I welcome it.

Rewriting history is exactly what you are doing. But that was my initial point, we have been doing this since the Civil War and Slavery. Hey... Look at us... See? We're not racists anymore!

I'm not using slavery as a "scapegoat" and I am not "rewriting" history. You are. The south fired the first shots.

That's what the south was fighting for, the right to enslave human beings. They committed treason to retain that right. And got their asses kicked.

The biggest mistake the North made was reconstruction.

Jefferson Davis and Robert E Lee should have been executed in the slowest and most painful manner. The ground of the south should have been burned and salted. There should have been impaled southern soldiers lining the roads. The most fearful thing in the southern mind should be revolution.

It's not. And that's a problem.

You've lost it entirely.

Holy toledo Sallow you have gone koo koo bye bye.

Wow.

 

[Boss]

Now you are addressing southern cuisine as slave food but there are differences. Many differences.

Creole and Cajun for just one quick example. And they are very different cuisines.

But food prepared by servants/slaves world wide completely affected the culinary tastes of the elite depending on the country.

For example, on my mothers side from the Ukraine and Russia borscht is considered a peasant food.

And yet in the finest restaurants in Moscow, you will find borscht. Basically we are talking field food. Beets potatoes with a hit of meat if any my ancestors were lucky enough to have a rib or too to throw in for stock.

But it still became the soup of Czars.

Blacks in America are not alone in this. Take great pride.

Truly. Jacques Pepin did an amazing series on French "country" or what we would call rural cuisine.

Once again the slave/serf/servant was the greatest influence.

Creole and Cajun are not typically included in "southern cuisine" but are very much a part of it because of regional geography. However, both Creole and Cajun cuisine, can be traced to Africa. Okra and gumbo are distinctly African.

I didn't raise the point to complain of some injustice which has befallen people of African descent, and isn't apparent elsewhere. The fact that you are fully aware of these 'histories' indicates you had the information available to know that. It means that at some level, people acknowledged this fact, and articulated it. Much of African-American contribution is simply never acknowledged, we're too busy preparing the next sacrifice to show we're not racist anymore.

 

[Sunshine]

I really thought this thread would generate some comments. I guess everyone must be tired of the whole Paula Deen thing? Maybe they are too wrapped up in the next scapegoat, Zimmerman? Yep, I said it, he's another example of someone who is singled out, portrayed as a racist, and our crucification is supposed to cleanse our souls and make us whole again.

You have an issue with a person who took something very ordinary and made a fortune with it. You think she was too white to have done this because the food is from West Africa and some black person should be the one getting the credit. What is there to say to that. Your opening post is stupid. It is based on a stupid premise. We all know who cooked during slave days. We all know that southern food is 'soul food.' But it was around long before it was called that. And plenty of whites know how to cook that way and do cook that way. You are just another stupid reverse racist bigot.

Cookbooks are sold in every bookstore and on Amazon. Deal with it, shit head.

 

[Pogo]

So Paula Deen, who grew up in the Southern United States, at some point in her life, used a racial slur... the "N" word. Is this surprising to you? I think most people in the South have said the word at least once, it's not like the word automatically means you are a racist to the core and no amount of time can ever change that. Some people, do indeed feel ashamed for using that word in the past, and realize they were wrong. Not just about the word, but about their attitude. Some people actually grow through their life experiences, and become better in character as people, as they mature. Racism is a belief that one race is superior or inferior to another, it has nothing to do with colloquial or socially-inclined language, or youthful ignorance.

I grew up in southern culture, around white people who used the word freely in private, and every now and then, in public as well. They would let one slip out, and cringe, while looking around to see if any black folk were nearby. I don't know if they were racists, or if they ever repented, I don't have the ability to see inside their heart. I can only go by my own heart and life experience. I won't say that I never used the word, but I never felt comfortable saying it, every time that it came from my lips, it felt awkward and wrong. I don't recall ever saying it as an adult. I know that I am not a racist, I don't believe we have race anymore, we're all part of the universal gene pool now.

What is happening to Paula Deen is appalling to me. It's the same thing that happened to Jimmy The Greek, who made some off-key comment about Africans being bred as naturally better athletes, or something. The firestorm which ensued, ended his public life for good. They are destroying Paula the same way, because these are the scapegoats. The examples to be made that we have 'overcome' our racism, when nothing is further from the truth. Every now and then, a sacrificial lamb has to be offered up, so that the institutional racism can continue with a clear conscience.

Take the food biz, for example. Paula Deen made a fortune on her cooking shows, featuring cuisine that largely came from Western Africa, and was brought to this country by slaves. Barbecue, a Southern tradition... came from Africa. But this story is never told. Plantation museums feature blacks as "servants" while every single morsel of the food on the elaborate dining table, was literally "slaved over in the kitchen" which was detached from the main house. What black people have contributed to Southern food culture, is completely ignored, while people like Paula Deen get wealthy off the heritage. I can get far more upset with Paula for this, than for using the "N" word.

I can never forget the first time I had "soul food" in Mississippi. It shocked me, because I was expecting to have something I never had, and it was just like what my grandmother used to cook. I always called it "old-fashioned" cooking. So much of what we call "southern culture" is the result of influence from African culture. Promoters and marketers avoid honesty to play to a white market. Cheerio's recently pulled a commercial because it featured a biracial couple and their mixed child, and this was viewed as too controversial. ...But you see, they've sacrificed Paula for saying the "N" word, so it's all okay!

Now you are addressing southern cuisine as slave food but there are differences. Many differences.

Creole and Cajun for just one quick example. And they are very different cuisines.

But food prepared by servants/slaves world wide completely affected the culinary tastes of the elite depending on the country.

For example, on my mothers side from the Ukraine and Russia borscht is considered a peasant food.

And yet in the finest restaurants in Moscow, you will find borscht. Basically we are talking field food. Beets potatoes with a hit of meat if any my ancestors were lucky enough to have a rib or too to throw in for stock.

But it still became the soup of Czars.

Blacks in America are not alone in this. Take great pride.

Truly. Jacques Pepin did an amazing series on French "country" or what we would call rural cuisine.

Once again the slave/serf/servant was the greatest influence.

Hmm... not so different. For one thing Creole (Euro/African mix) and Cajun traditions are pretty much limited to Louisiana, not the South as a whole. And while there is an element of French cuisine that survives in Cajun cuisine (boudin, the word jambalaya and possibly Holy Trinity), even there the African (and Caribbean) influence is still heavy. We've already mentioned Gumbo, the word itself being straight from Africa.

And just to stew the broth, filé comes from native America, talk about a subdued race. There's a whole lot of that in Southern cuisine we haven't mentioned (grits anyone? Cornbread?).

But the fried chicken and barbecue and greens, that's all Africa. Ironically, butter, as noted earlier being despised in the South, is a European influence, Paula Deen notwithstanding. Go figure.

 

[wavingrl]

I still want to know how this lawsuit began.

I suspect 'personality differences' in the workplace and then the plaintiff took it to the next level.

Beyond that--I don't enjoy much of what the Food Channel offers.

I would not need a 'name brand' product to cook. Nor do I particularly want to visit the restaurants owned by the food channel personalities.

The most useful bit of information I have gained from these cooking shows--you can use a coffee grinder to grind spices and peppercorns.

 

[Pogo]

I still want to know how this lawsuit began.

I suspect 'personality differences' in the workplace and then the plaintiff took it to the next level.

Beyond that--I don't enjoy much of what the Food Channel offers.

I would not need a 'name brand' product to cook. Nor do I particularly want to visit the restaurants owned by the food channel personalities.

The most useful bit of information I have gained from these cooking shows--you can use a coffee grinder to grind spices and peppercorns.

And then you have pepper coffee
Actually I regularly toss coriander seeds in my coffee grinder already...

It's a complaint about conditions in the workplace, having to do with sexual and racial harassment, assault and battery, emotional distress and so forth. And the complaints refer not to Paula Deen but to her brother. Paula is the owner of the business. How something Paula Deen said 30 years ago would be connected to any of this, considering the employee's history only goes back to 2005, is something nobody has explained yet. That's a head scratcher. But I'm not a TV person anyway so I came in late to this kerfuffle.

 

[wavingrl]

I still want to know how this lawsuit began.

I suspect 'personality differences' in the workplace and then the plaintiff took it to the next level.

Beyond that--I don't enjoy much of what the Food Channel offers.

I would not need a 'name brand' product to cook. Nor do I particularly want to visit the restaurants owned by the food channel personalities.

The most useful bit of information I have gained from these cooking shows--you can use a coffee grinder to grind spices and peppercorns.

And then you have pepper coffee
Actually I regularly toss coriander seeds in my coffee grinder already...

It's a complaint about conditions in the workplace, having to do with sexual harassment, assault and battery, emotional distress and so forth. How something Paula Deen said 30 years ago would be connected to any of this, considering the employee's history only goes back to 2005, is something nobody has explained yet. That's a head scratcher. But I'm not a TV person anyway so I came in late to this kerfuffle.

I completely agree.

lol--Whichever, whomever advised about the use of the coffee grinder suggested that one be dedicated to spices, fwiw. I wipe mine out --lol --and that works pretty well.

From what I have gleaned about the restaurant business--it is stressful and I don't doubt that 'things are said that shouldn't be said' from time to time. Robert Irvine and others seem fully capable of speaking bluntly.

Meanwhile--'The Pioneer Woman' demonstrated how to make baked beans today. And someone else made chicken salad with avocado--I think that was Guatemala. Rather senseless--a waste of time. I like chicken salad and avocados --not certain I would like them together, but maybe I would?

It seems like 'culture' is a big issue. I have seen some weddings on TLC--'4 Weddings'--4 brides rate each others' weddings--that would not be my preference. How far do we have to go with this--I wonder. If Paula Deen said that she 'liked' the antebellum style--I can't get too upset about that. I wouldn't. Savannah has that sort of architecture and I understand that it is aesthetically pleasing. whatever.

~~~
growling to myself that CNN thinks we need to be more informed about the N word.

 

[Pogo]

I still want to know how this lawsuit began.

I suspect 'personality differences' in the workplace and then the plaintiff took it to the next level.

Beyond that--I don't enjoy much of what the Food Channel offers.

I would not need a 'name brand' product to cook. Nor do I particularly want to visit the restaurants owned by the food channel personalities.

The most useful bit of information I have gained from these cooking shows--you can use a coffee grinder to grind spices and peppercorns.

And then you have pepper coffee
Actually I regularly toss coriander seeds in my coffee grinder already...

It's a complaint about conditions in the workplace, having to do with sexual harassment, assault and battery, emotional distress and so forth. How something Paula Deen said 30 years ago would be connected to any of this, considering the employee's history only goes back to 2005, is something nobody has explained yet. That's a head scratcher. But I'm not a TV person anyway so I came in late to this kerfuffle.

I completely agree.

lol--Whichever, whomever advised about the use of the coffee grinder suggested that one be dedicated to spices, fwiw. I wipe mine out --lol --and that works pretty well.

From what I have gleaned about the restaurant business--it is stressful and I don't doubt that 'things are said that shouldn't be said' from time to time. Robert Irvine and others seem fully capable of speaking bluntly.

Meanwhile--'The Pioneer Woman' demonstrated how to make baked beans today. And someone else made chicken salad with avocado--I think that was Guatemala. Rather senseless--a waste of time. I like chicken salad and avocados --not certain I would like them together, but maybe I would?

It seems like 'culture' is a big issue. I have seen some weddings on TLC--'4 Weddings'--4 brides rate each others' weddings--that would not be my preference. How far do we have to go with this--I wonder. If Paula Deen said that she 'liked' the antebellum style--I can't get too upset about that. I wouldn't. Savannah has that sort of architecture and I understand that it is aesthetically pleasing. whatever.

~~~
growling to myself that CNN thinks we need to be more informed about the N word.

Since I don't have TV I haven't seen what CNN is proposing to do but it seems to me what we need is more conversation on this -- not less. Aren't we already drowning in misconceptions?

 

[wavingrl]

And then you have pepper coffee
Actually I regularly toss coriander seeds in my coffee grinder already...

It's a complaint about conditions in the workplace, having to do with sexual harassment, assault and battery, emotional distress and so forth. How something Paula Deen said 30 years ago would be connected to any of this, considering the employee's history only goes back to 2005, is something nobody has explained yet. That's a head scratcher. But I'm not a TV person anyway so I came in late to this kerfuffle.

I completely agree.

lol--Whichever, whomever advised about the use of the coffee grinder suggested that one be dedicated to spices, fwiw. I wipe mine out --lol --and that works pretty well.

From what I have gleaned about the restaurant business--it is stressful and I don't doubt that 'things are said that shouldn't be said' from time to time. Robert Irvine and others seem fully capable of speaking bluntly.

Meanwhile--'The Pioneer Woman' demonstrated how to make baked beans today. And someone else made chicken salad with avocado--I think that was Guatemala. Rather senseless--a waste of time. I like chicken salad and avocados --not certain I would like them together, but maybe I would?

It seems like 'culture' is a big issue. I have seen some weddings on TLC--'4 Weddings'--4 brides rate each others' weddings--that would not be my preference. How far do we have to go with this--I wonder. If Paula Deen said that she 'liked' the antebellum style--I can't get too upset about that. I wouldn't. Savannah has that sort of architecture and I understand that it is aesthetically pleasing. whatever.

~~~
growling to myself that CNN thinks we need to be more informed about the N word.

Since I don't have TV I haven't seen what CNN is proposing to do but it seems to me what we need is more conversation on this -- not less. Aren't we already drowning in misconceptions?

According to the media we are. 'Civilized' people seem to have some comprehension of 'getting along' with others and I don't think anything that CNN might provide will be an asset to such people and the others will continue to do what they do.

'Some' 20-30 somethings and others use a number of words that I think are ill advised. fwiw. Some discussion of that might be of interest to me.

 

[Boss]

I really thought this thread would generate some comments. I guess everyone must be tired of the whole Paula Deen thing? Maybe they are too wrapped up in the next scapegoat, Zimmerman? Yep, I said it, he's another example of someone who is singled out, portrayed as a racist, and our crucification is supposed to cleanse our souls and make us whole again.

You have an issue with a person who took something very ordinary and made a fortune with it. You think she was too white to have done this because the food is from West Africa and some black person should be the one getting the credit. What is there to say to that. Your opening post is stupid. It is based on a stupid premise. We all know who cooked during slave days. We all know that southern food is 'soul food.' But it was around long before it was called that. And plenty of whites know how to cook that way and do cook that way. You are just another stupid reverse racist bigot.

Cookbooks are sold in every bookstore and on Amazon. Deal with it, shit head.

No... I think she is too white, and her sponsors/network/marketers/producers are too white, or geared to white audiences, to mention the food originated in Africa and was brought here by people of African descent. And I think America in general is too white to ever start acknowledging the contributions of people who came from Africa, in a fair and objective way. We are constantly presented the "antebellum" version of "southern culture" as if this was the true story, when it's not the true story, it's far from it. But that is overlooked because we trot out a "Paula Deen" every now and then, and show everyone that we're not racists anymore.

It wasn't until just recently, we started teaching children in school about the Tuskegee Airmen. For decades, we simply ignored the history and the contribution, but hey looky-looky... we removed the racist governor from the schoolhouse door! We constantly offer up these sacrifices so we can continue ignoring the truth as a society, in our everyday culture. Paula Deen is just the latest example.

Now that her career is destroyed, what will happen? Well, someone else will emerge to fill the niche, to appeal to the demographic, the white suburban southern households, and they won't be a black person or someone who acknowledges black contributions to southern food culture. Because that kind of TV show wouldn't appeal to enough people, not enough black people buy cookbooks or watch cooking shows. But hey... it's all cool because we got rid of the N-word-sayer... we're not racist anymore!