Zone1 Religion is not needed if a "golden rule" is valued

[Mashmont]

I didn't say cruel

I said petty, jealous and vindictive easily insulted and hypocritical.

That's even dumber. Is gravity or a hurricane petty jealous or vindictive?

 

[Blues Man]

That's even dumber. Is gravity or a hurricane petty jealous or vindictive?

Gravity won't kill you for insulting it.

A hurricane can be avoided because we generally know when they are coming.

And those things claim no perfection of being or moral superiority

 

[hadit]

No your god has no authority over me.

You're not recognizing it. There's a difference.

 

[hadit]

I'm not a toddler and can exercise my own reason. Something religious zealots never do.

And it's not a criticism it is an objective observation.

A toddler's ability to reason is far closer to the reality his parents live in than is your ability to reason compared to the reality that God inhabits. The toddler also thinks he has it figured out and thinks he is justified in judging daddy to just be mean because he is away again today, and mommy is a hypocrite because she plays with the stove all the time and he can't.

 

[Blues Man]

You're not recognizing it. There's a difference.

No there isn't.

If there are any gods I have confidence none of them are like the god in the bible.

 

[Blues Man]

A toddler's ability to reason is far closer to the reality his parents live in than is your ability to reason compared to the reality that God inhabits. The toddler also thinks he has it figured out and thinks he is justified in judging daddy to just be mean because he is away again today, and mommy is a hypocrite because she plays with the stove all the time and he can't.

I'm not a toddler.

And at least I know not to tell people not to do things I do myself something your god doesn't get.

 

[hadit]

I'm not a toddler.

And at least I know not to tell people not to do things I do myself something your god doesn't get.

And you again ignore the reality that people with authority over you can do things they tell you not to do. Even if you can prove your neighbor has done something wrong, you cannot go over to his house, kick his door in at 3:00 am, shoot his dog, throw him into shackles and tie him up in your basement. Call the cops and ask them if you are allowed to do it after you watch a SWAT team do exactly that, legally. Then, after you watch a murderer be executed, ask if you are allowed to go onto death row and execute the next one scheduled to die.

Apparently, you have a problem with someone having more authority than you do, but only if that person is the creator of the universe. Why do you think He needs to be limited by the same things you are? Can't you conceive of someone greater than you with more authority and autonomy than you? Would God be a hypocrite because he makes you obey gravity but doesn't Himself?

 

[Blues Man]

And you again ignore the reality that people with authority over you can do things they tell you not to do. Even if you can prove your neighbor has done something wrong, you cannot go over to his house, kick his door in at 3:00 am, shoot his dog, throw him into shackles and tie him up in your basement. Call the cops and ask them if you are allowed to do it after you watch a SWAT team do exactly that, legally. Then, after you watch a murderer be executed, ask if you are allowed to go onto death row and execute the next one scheduled to die.

Apparently, you have a problem with someone having more authority than you do, but only if that person is the creator of the universe. Why do you think He needs to be limited by the same things you are? Can't you conceive of someone greater than you with more authority and autonomy than you? Would God be a hypocrite because he makes you obey gravity but doesn't Himself?

No I don't YOU are ignoring the glaring fact that the authority in our society is granted to the state by the people and the people have power to change laws and even oust those in authority who abuse the power given them.

There is no ultimate unquestionable authority that can unilaterally make decrees and enforce them under penalty of death.

There is no analogy between gods and government.

 

[hadit]

No I don't YOU are ignoring the glaring fact that the authority in our society is granted to the state by the people and the people have power to change laws and even oust those in authority who abuse the power given them.

There is no ultimate unquestionable authority that can unilaterally make decrees and enforce them under penalty of death.

There is no analogy between gods and government.

Sigh. You want to argue semantics to avoid acknowledging the central point, which is that there is no hypocrisy in someone with greater authority than you doing things they tell you not to do. Your answer is to just deny the existence of that authority, while simultaneously criticizing said authority.

So, which is it? Are you going to bow out of the conversation by saying that you simply don't believe God exists and therefore you have no purpose in judging Him, or are you going to, for the sake of the argument, waive that and acknowledge He is no hypocrite for doing things you can't because He has greater authority? You can't have it both ways.

 

[Blues Man]

Sigh. You want to argue semantics to avoid acknowledging the central point, which is that there is no hypocrisy in someone with greater authority than you doing things they tell you not to do. Your answer is to just deny the existence of that authority, while simultaneously criticizing said authority.

So, which is it? Are you going to bow out of the conversation by saying that you simply don't believe God exists and therefore you have no purpose in judging Him, or are you going to, for the sake of the argument, waive that and acknowledge He is no hypocrite for doing things you can't because He has greater authority? You can't have it both ways.

Pot Kettle.

You are trying to tell me the unilateral authority of a god is the same as the authority we grant our government.

 

[Meriweather]

You are trying to tell me the unilateral authority of a god is the same as the authority we grant our government.

People of faith are simply explaining our perspective and hadit has done an excellent job. We recognize the authority of God, and some of us come to be in awe of its wisdom and excellence. When something fazes us, God's advice is both sought and cherished. God is the most highly esteemed being in our existence.

People who publicly hold God in contempt are going to be blinded by their own contempt, and cannot be expected to understand what is beyond that cloud of contempt.

 

[hadit]

Pot Kettle.

You are trying to tell me the unilateral authority of a god is the same as the authority we grant our government.

No, I'm merely illustrating that there is no hypocrisy when a person of higher authority can do things he/she commands you NOT to do. Heck, a barista drone at Starbucks can tell you not to go behind the counter while he/she is behind it for hours at a time. No hypocrisy involved. Likewise, God is no hypocrite for doing things He commands us not to do, because He has authority to do so and we don't. Why is it so hard for you to accept that?

 

[Blues Man]

People of faith are simply explaining our perspective and hadit has done an excellent job. We recognize the authority of God, and some of us come to be in awe of its wisdom and excellence. When something fazes us, God's advice is both sought and cherished. God is the most highly esteemed being in our existence.

People who publicly hold God in contempt are going to be blinded by their own contempt, and cannot be expected to understand what is beyond that cloud of contempt.

No he really hasn't.

There is no analogy between the authority of a capricious petty god and the authority that we as reasoned human beings grant our government.

 

[Meriweather]

There is no analogy between the authority of a capricious petty god

And...my point is confirmed.

 

[Blues Man]

And...my point is confirmed.

You have no point because you didn't address the entire quote.

You like to cherry-pick your little out of context snippets and make your snide remarks.

At least pretend to have a little intellectual integrity once in a while.

 

[Meriweather]

You have no point

I do. Sorry it was missed the first time, but perhaps another time?

 

[Blues Man]

I do. Sorry it was missed the first time, but perhaps another time?

More out of context cherry picking

Tell you what if you don't want to quote my entire post and make intelligent comments then don't bother responding to any of my posts especially if they weren't addressed to you since you'll just be wasting my time and yours.

 

[Meriweather]

quote my entire post

I quote only the part I address.

 

[ViewFromAbove]

Really? Can you explain how the universe began using your own words from off the top of your head? I can. So what makes you believe you know more about physics, research methods and philosophy than I do? Of course I'm not really sure why you think research methods are relevant to this discussion.

I cannot explain what happened 14 billion years ago. No one can, other than hypotheses & theories. I am agnostic. I believe only when there is sufficient evidence. Scientists by nature are agnostic in their research methods. You can make up stuff, but educated & wise people see thru the BS.

 

[ViewFromAbove]

Okay, so you tell us how everything spontaneously came from nothing, and where we can see this phenomenon happening today. Science is all about repeatability, after all.

I am agnostic. Science is about EVIDENCE for hypothetical claims and theories. Repeatability is NOT always possible.
You may not understand what is meant by "nothing" in the physics sense, but not many do. Something likely caused our "Big Bang", and there may have been others.