Removing The Burden Of America’s Original Sin

[initforme]

I have swedish DNA. I was born in america. I am a swedish american. That's what I wrote down when asked for ethnicity.

 

[Curried Goats]

Young Republicans, Young Trump Voters, and the Future of the GOP

Young people played an influential role in the 2020 election. Youth voter turnout rose significantly compared to 2016, and young voters’ strong preference for President Biden (61% vs. 37% for former President Trump) was key to his electoral victory. That said, nationally nearly four in 10 young...

circle.tufts.edu

You don't seem to realize your precious beliefs are not facts, but just your beliefs.

Nope they are facts. Your link doesn't really do anything to dissuade me of my beliefs. In fact your link seems to bolster them.

Unless you live in middle of Mississippi or in a cabin in Wyoming I don't think many would doubt that
the Confederate states were an evil force that we were right to stomp down.
As far as pulling down statues of long dead rebels I think many people see that as unnecessary over reaction
to symbols that were actually instructive and necessary as historical object lessons.

You can deny the pervasiveness of Confederate idolatry that used to exist in this country if you want to but I wonder what about them you think makes them any more evil or immoral than Washington of Jefferson.

It's a millennial obsession to rename schools, streets, ships, army bases etc. so you don't lie awake at
night shivering and wetting yourself in fear. Most rational adults see the compulsory obsession as a
Soviet style attack on iconography that's just juvenile, absurd and pointless.

Iconography and propaganda are important. Who we choose to venerate and idolize is important. Hell you just tried to make the case they were important when you were defining them as instructive and necessary historical objects. Which is it?

Most statues, etc. were purposely erected as part of a policy of reconciliation under Abraham Lincoln
designed to heal wounds. But what the hell did he know?

To be clear you mean they were placed there to reconcile with the "evil forces" of the Confederacy. Don't you think it's time we stop promoting evil?

Ironic bull shit coming from someone who claims to fight against racism. The victory over CTR in
Virginia schools was anything but "minor". Just ask Terry McAullife.

I don't care about Terry McAullife. He was a weak moderate who got taken out. So what? Sometimes clear opponents are better than fake friends.

Do professionals really find codifying and teaching racism "useful"? CRT has been chased out of the
public sphere and back into dark corners and closets from whence it came. And without black support this would have never happened.
But I suppose you are just smarter than all the black parents who didn't want their children indoctrinated
with racist agitprop under the guise of teaching "history".

It's been snuffed out of public schools were it really never was. Big deal. Lol.

 

[Curried Goats]

Formatting problems in post #152 but as long as I'm closing this chapter on you I should address this too.

In one delusional sentence you claim you "took" this country (without people noticing it) yet in another claim
say the takeover will not happen over night.

So which is it? You've snatched the country away from the folks you consider racists? Or you are working
on that little issue currently and cannot say when the "empire" will collapse?

Keep everyone posted, okay? Have fun playing with words.

Well we've already broken you ideologically. The rest will follow.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Nope they are facts. Your link doesn't really do anything to dissuade me of my beliefs. In fact your link seems to bolster them.

Because your unquestioned beliefs trump facts?

 

[Clipper]

You're the fucking commie, asshole.

Still parroting your boy's raaaaaaants about Communists, I gather.

How are you able to type thru tears?

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

You can deny the pervasiveness of Confederate idolatry that used to exist in this country if you want to but I wonder what about them you think makes them any more evil or immoral than Washington of Jefferson.

That would depend on who wanted to present as an example.
Washington and Jefferson were ambivalent about slavery and thought to be relatively permissive, as slave holders go though they both believed the preserving the union was more important than the issue of slavery
at the particular time they were in public life.

Both men granted freedom to their slaves upon their deaths.

 

[Curried Goats]

Because your unquestioned beliefs trump facts?

Your link doesn't disagree with anything I said. Did you even read it?

 

[Curried Goats]

That would depend on who wanted to present as an example.
Washington and Jefferson were ambivalent about slavery and thought to be relatively permissive, as slave holders go though they both believed the preserving the union was more important than the issue of slavery
at the particular time they were in public life.

Both men granted freedom to their slaves upon their deaths.

I'd argue owning slaves is being a bit more than ambivalent over slavery. They were active participants in it. That they stopped participating in slavery on their death really isn't the character reference you think it is.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Iconography and propaganda are important. Who we choose to venerate and idolize is important. Hell you just tried to make the case they were important when you were defining them as instructive and necessary historical objects. Which is it?

I already clearly stated that confederate monuments served an instructional purpose for young people
in the negative!

That is to say they were important because we do NOT venerate people like Jefferson Davis or Stonewall
Jackson. Not because we do!
"Mommy, who is that man in the park?"
"Oh, He was a confederate general".
""What does that mean?'
"Well, he fought against the United States and wanted people to be able to hold slaves."
"But that's wrong, isn't it?"
"Yes. That was very wrong."
Are you catching on?

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

I'd argue owning slaves is being a bit more than ambivalent over slavery. They were active participants in it. That they stopped participating in slavery on their death really isn't the character reference you think it is.

"Ambivalent" means someone has mixed emotions about something.
For their time, where they lived and what they did (farmers) their treatment of blacks were
pretty enlightened.

Of course from your perch on a pedestal as the pinnacle of all human illumination you can judge everyone
else with ease. Aren't you the lucky one.

Men like Washington and Jefferson were balancing appeasing Southern slaveholders with keeping together
our new nation than could easily evaporate if slavery were denounced.
You have no idea how complex things are. You are something of a dope.

 

[bripat9643]

Still parroting your boy's raaaaaaants about Communists, I gather.

How are you able to type thru tears?

What "tears?" I just point out facts that you find painful.

 

[Curried Goats]

I already clearly stated that confederate monuments served an instructional purpose for young people
in the negative!

lol. Why do you think shouting makes your point more valid? It doesn't. My point was iconography was important and you seem to be agreeing with me. Where I will disagree with you is that statues of Confederates displayed as heroes serves to help associate Confederate culture with negstivity. I think taking them down as things to be ashamed of accomplishes that a lot better.

That is to say they were important because we do NOT venerate people like Jefferson Davis or Stonewall
Jackson. Not because we do!
"Mommy, who is that man in the park?"
"Oh, He was a confederate general".
""What does that mean?'
"Well, he fought against the United States and wanted people to be able to hold slaves."
"But that's wrong, isn't it?"
"Yes. That was very wrong."
Are you catching on?

You don't really need statues of Confederates to teach they were wrong any more than we need statues of Nazis to teach they were wrong. Do you think a lack of statue based education is going to usher in a new wave of antisemitism?

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Your link doesn't disagree with anything I said. Did you even read it?

Did you? Rhetorical question. I know you didn't.

 

[Curried Goats]

"Ambivalent" means someone has mixed emotions about something.
For their time, where they lived and what they did (farmers) their treatment of blacks were
pretty enlightened.

If you want to argue that treating blacks as property is enlightened you can go ahead but I don't think that's a winning argument.

Of course from your perch on a pedestal as the pinnacle of all human illumination you can judge everyone
else with ease. Aren't you the lucky one.

I have been blessed with education and good moral foundation. Thanks for noticing.

Men like Washington and Jefferson were balancing appeasing Southern slaveholders with keeping together
our new nation than could easily evaporate if slavery were denounced.
You have no idea how complex things are. You are something of a dope.

Where did I say they weren't complex or where is your evidence that I don't understand the complexity? Be that as it may, Washington and Jefferson are those Southern slave owners you're talking about. Seems like they did a pretty good job appeasing themselves.

 

[Curried Goats]

Did you? Rhetorical question. I know you didn't.

How do you know that? Are you telepathic?

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

You don't really need statues of Confederates to teach they were wrong any more than we need statues of Nazis to teach they were wrong. Do you think a lack of statue based education is going to usher in a new wave of antisemitism?

Red herring. We never built monuments to Nazism to facilitate reconciliation.
Pulling down ALL references to the confederacy just seems needless and smacks of Soviet Union totalitarianism to me.
You seem young and overly impressed with your own infallibility. Odd that no one that I grew up around
thought confederate rebels were cool because the name of some general was in a park or on a bridge.

It's a mental disorder called Millenialism.
Maybe one day you'll grow up. But chances of that seems remote, to me.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

How do you know that? Are you telepathic?

Because I know what my link says as opposed to what you claim.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

If you want to argue that treating blacks as property is enlightened you can go ahead but I don't think that's a winning argument.

See, there's the evidence again that your thinking is impervious to nuance and comparative values.

George Washington is NOT enlightened compared to you.
George Washington WAS enlightened when compared to peers and other men of his times.

You know in the time of Jesus slavery was considered an unexceptional common place thing.
One day you might grow up to discover everyone should be seen through the prism of
the times in which they lived.
But I doubt it. It's a concept way too advanced for you.

 

[Curried Goats]

Red herring. We never built monuments to Nazism to facilitate reconciliation.

No we didn't, and yet millions of children still learn that Nazi's are pieces of shit. Imagine that.

Pulling down ALL references to the confederacy just seems needless and smacks of Soviet Union totalitarianism to me.

And that is a type of ad hominem fallacy trying to accuse me of totalitarianism without actually proving it. There is nothing totalitarian about voters deciding to remove Confederate iconography or in voting for representatives that promise to.

You seem young and overly impressed with your own infallibility. Odd that no one that I grew up around
thought confederate rebels were cool because the name of some general was in a park or on a bridge.

Well your personal anecdote is obviously indicative of larger social truths because that's exactly how those work.

It's a mental disorder called Millenialism.
Maybe one day you'll grow up.

Is it? Can you site a source for that or have you given up because I'm your intellectual superior and all you have left are these none arguments?

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

I have been blessed with education and good moral foundation. Thanks for noticing.

Actually I haven't noticed.

Where did I say they weren't complex or where is your evidence that I don't understand the complexity? Be that as it may, Washington and Jefferson are those Southern slave owners you're talking about. Seems like they did a pretty good job appeasing themselves.

Washington and Jefferson are on Mr. Rushmore because most people don't go through life with blinders
on and folks realize the issue of slavery doesn't define them in totality.

There goes your Millenialism again.