Renewable Energy Will Be Consistently Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels By 2020

[Redfish]

I don't disagree with any of that. But most of the liberals rant that we have to find renewables to prevent climate change, that is the fraud I am addressing.

consider the source...

but dont knock a confirmed tech over politics,

I don't knock confirmed tech, but you need to be realistic in what it can do in the near term. Scandinavia invested billions and it is not returning the investment. When I was in Denmark about 1/3 of the wind turbines were shut down due to mechanical problems and the rest were killing birds. We need to proceed with sensible caution on this.

thats all true to a point, but you do have to kill a few birds and waste a little money for any chance to make it work.
think about all the people that have died due to bad pharma, 10 yrs ago it was the #1 killer and today its down to about 3rd

and there are thousands of homes across the country being powered by solar and wind and a lot of them its unrealistic to bring a hardwire to them...no other options

as to the birds the problem is they are use vertical windmills instead of the horizontal ones, and yes its been proven that large solar farms are not the solution where as induvidual systems are a very positive solution or at least in some areas a good offset during high usage periods

there are zero homes across the country being powered solely by solar and wind. that is a fantasy. Here in south Louisiana you can get a solar system for around 25K with 70-80% of it being refunded by the state and federal govt on your tax return, several of my neighbors have had them installed, the average saving on their power bill is $70 per month. So 25K times 80% = 5K out of pocket, divided by 70 = 71 months to break even. almost 6 years and the expected life of the panels is not much more than that. so even with the govt contribution (paid for by the rest of the taxpayers) its not a very good deal.

We will get there, but we aint there yet by a long shot.

Yet here in the Rocky Mountains above where there are any powerlines or gas lines, Solar and Wind power is used for many homes. Suagge is done by leak fields, water is either hauled in or done by wells or natural springs, heat is done by hardwood. It's uncommon but not unheard of. My Sister has a place like that. The closest power line is over 2 miles away. It would cost over 50,000 bucks to string power into her place. She uses batteries in the evenings. Funny, as far out as she is, she has Wifi since she can see the city. So don't tell me that it's neither done nor it can't be done. High country residents are all like that. And there are more out there than you would imagine. You flatlanders are just wimps.

don't give me that crap, I lived in Denver for many years, as well as Michigan, San Diego, Atlanta, and Wash DC. for each house living "off the grid" as you describe there are 10 million living in cities and using fossil fuel generated electricity.

and "heat is done by hardwood" like by burning it? How do you justify putting all that pollution into the air just to stay warm? (sarcasm, since the whole alternative fuel thing is supposed to stop pollution).

How is an apartment dweller in Newark supposed to live off the grid? Its a fantasy, wake up.

 

[Redfish]

I don't knock confirmed tech, but you need to be realistic in what it can do in the near term. Scandinavia invested billions and it is not returning the investment. When I was in Denmark about 1/3 of the wind turbines were shut down due to mechanical problems and the rest were killing birds. We need to proceed with sensible caution on this.

thats all true to a point, but you do have to kill a few birds and waste a little money for any chance to make it work.
think about all the people that have died due to bad pharma, 10 yrs ago it was the #1 killer and today its down to about 3rd

and there are thousands of homes across the country being powered by solar and wind and a lot of them its unrealistic to bring a hardwire to them...no other options

as to the birds the problem is they are use vertical windmills instead of the horizontal ones, and yes its been proven that large solar farms are not the solution where as induvidual systems are a very positive solution or at least in some areas a good offset during high usage periods

there are zero homes across the country being powered solely by solar and wind. that is a fantasy. Here in south Louisiana you can get a solar system for around 25K with 70-80% of it being refunded by the state and federal govt on your tax return, several of my neighbors have had them installed, the average saving on their power bill is $70 per month. So 25K times 80% = 5K out of pocket, divided by 70 = 71 months to break even. almost 6 years and the expected life of the panels is not much more than that. so even with the govt contribution (paid for by the rest of the taxpayers) its not a very good deal.

We will get there, but we aint there yet by a long shot.

so youve been to every house in the country to confirm such a claim...NOT
one of the youtubers I watch spend his life installing systems in full off grid houses,,,but its the internet so it must be a lie


ITS CLEAR FROM YOUR COMMENT YOU ARE BLOWING SMOKE JUST FOR THE SAKE OF IT, AND NOT WORTH MORE OF MY TIME

sorry if facts piss you off, there may be people living off the grid on a mountaintop in Hawaii, but its not a life style that most people would like or choose.

run off if you want, I don't care.

those arent facts because I have personally seen them and you can not have seen every house in the country to say zero

stop being a closed minded bigot and get out your cave and experience the world outside...its quite grand

no its not zero, there are probably a few thousand US citizens living off the grid, out of 330,000,000 that aren't. I am not a bigot, I am a realist.

 

[Redfish]

consider the source...

but dont knock a confirmed tech over politics,

I don't knock confirmed tech, but you need to be realistic in what it can do in the near term. Scandinavia invested billions and it is not returning the investment. When I was in Denmark about 1/3 of the wind turbines were shut down due to mechanical problems and the rest were killing birds. We need to proceed with sensible caution on this.

thats all true to a point, but you do have to kill a few birds and waste a little money for any chance to make it work.
think about all the people that have died due to bad pharma, 10 yrs ago it was the #1 killer and today its down to about 3rd

and there are thousands of homes across the country being powered by solar and wind and a lot of them its unrealistic to bring a hardwire to them...no other options

as to the birds the problem is they are use vertical windmills instead of the horizontal ones, and yes its been proven that large solar farms are not the solution where as induvidual systems are a very positive solution or at least in some areas a good offset during high usage periods

there are zero homes across the country being powered solely by solar and wind. that is a fantasy. Here in south Louisiana you can get a solar system for around 25K with 70-80% of it being refunded by the state and federal govt on your tax return, several of my neighbors have had them installed, the average saving on their power bill is $70 per month. So 25K times 80% = 5K out of pocket, divided by 70 = 71 months to break even. almost 6 years and the expected life of the panels is not much more than that. so even with the govt contribution (paid for by the rest of the taxpayers) its not a very good deal.

We will get there, but we aint there yet by a long shot.

Yet here in the Rocky Mountains above where there are any powerlines or gas lines, Solar and Wind power is used for many homes. Suagge is done by leak fields, water is either hauled in or done by wells or natural springs, heat is done by hardwood. It's uncommon but not unheard of. My Sister has a place like that. The closest power line is over 2 miles away. It would cost over 50,000 bucks to string power into her place. She uses batteries in the evenings. Funny, as far out as she is, she has Wifi since she can see the city. So don't tell me that it's neither done nor it can't be done. High country residents are all like that. And there are more out there than you would imagine. You flatlanders are just wimps.

daryl youre not saying redfish is full of it are you???

he is displaying his ignorance, nothing more.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

And exactly who promised electricity would be free to you.

Where, Exactly, Did I Say It Would Be Free

Are We Trying To Play With Semantics Now ??

Hey, it's your game.

 

[karpenter]

for each house living "off the grid" as you describe there are 10 million living in cities and using fossil fuel generated electricity.
and "heat is done by hardwood" like by burning it?

Not Out West
All Coniferous Softwoods
Burns Hot, Fast And It's Gone

How is an apartment dweller in Newark supposed to live off the grid? Its a fantasy, wake up.

See ??

Even He Admits It's A Return To The 19th Century
He Doesn't Even Consider Urban Population Densities
And What It Takes To Feed, Clothe, And House Them

I Already Asked Him
What Happens To The Excess Population
Of Which You, He, And I Will All Be A Member

Because All That Survivalist
Down In The Bunker Stuff
Is A Bunch Of Hooey Too

 

[progressive hunter]

The only way that stupid solar and wind energy can compete with fossil fuel is to have massive government subsidies.

It is a Moon Bat's pipe dream.

Morons!

if fossils ran out then there is no competition, better to get the kinks out now instead of waiting til after the last minute

 

[progressive hunter]

consider the source...

but dont knock a confirmed tech over politics,

I don't knock confirmed tech, but you need to be realistic in what it can do in the near term. Scandinavia invested billions and it is not returning the investment. When I was in Denmark about 1/3 of the wind turbines were shut down due to mechanical problems and the rest were killing birds. We need to proceed with sensible caution on this.

thats all true to a point, but you do have to kill a few birds and waste a little money for any chance to make it work.
think about all the people that have died due to bad pharma, 10 yrs ago it was the #1 killer and today its down to about 3rd

and there are thousands of homes across the country being powered by solar and wind and a lot of them its unrealistic to bring a hardwire to them...no other options

as to the birds the problem is they are use vertical windmills instead of the horizontal ones, and yes its been proven that large solar farms are not the solution where as induvidual systems are a very positive solution or at least in some areas a good offset during high usage periods

there are zero homes across the country being powered solely by solar and wind. that is a fantasy. Here in south Louisiana you can get a solar system for around 25K with 70-80% of it being refunded by the state and federal govt on your tax return, several of my neighbors have had them installed, the average saving on their power bill is $70 per month. So 25K times 80% = 5K out of pocket, divided by 70 = 71 months to break even. almost 6 years and the expected life of the panels is not much more than that. so even with the govt contribution (paid for by the rest of the taxpayers) its not a very good deal.

We will get there, but we aint there yet by a long shot.

Yet here in the Rocky Mountains above where there are any powerlines or gas lines, Solar and Wind power is used for many homes. Suagge is done by leak fields, water is either hauled in or done by wells or natural springs, heat is done by hardwood. It's uncommon but not unheard of. My Sister has a place like that. The closest power line is over 2 miles away. It would cost over 50,000 bucks to string power into her place. She uses batteries in the evenings. Funny, as far out as she is, she has Wifi since she can see the city. So don't tell me that it's neither done nor it can't be done. High country residents are all like that. And there are more out there than you would imagine. You flatlanders are just wimps.

don't give me that crap, I lived in Denver for many years, as well as Michigan, San Diego, Atlanta, and Wash DC. for each house living "off the grid" as you describe there are 10 million living in cities and using fossil fuel generated electricity.

and "heat is done by hardwood" like by burning it? How do you justify putting all that pollution into the air just to stay warm? (sarcasm, since the whole alternative fuel thing is supposed to stop pollution).

How is an apartment dweller in Newark supposed to live off the grid? Its a fantasy, wake up.

redfish you said no one is living off grid...your story changes faster than trumps hookers

 

[martybegan]

it means end of states gas-stations : KSA, "Russia", all Gulf states , etc. how our world without states gas-stations will be look like?

Renewable Energy Will Be Consistently Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels By 2020,
The organisation – which has more than 150 member countries – says the cost of generating power from onshore wind has fallen by around 23% since 2010 while the cost of solar photovoltaic (PV) electricity has fallen by 73% in that time. With further price falls expected for these and other green energy options, IRENA says all renewable energy technologies should be competitive on price with fossil fuels by 2020.Globally, onshore wind schemes are now costing an average of $0.06 per kilowatt hour (kWh), although some schemes are coming in at $0.04 per KwH, while the cost of solar PV is down to $0.10 per KwH. In comparison, the cost of electricity generation based on fossil fuels typically falls in a range of $0.05 to $0.17 per KwH.

Renewable Energy Will Be Consistently Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels By 2020, Report Claims

Your link:

"Globally, onshore wind schemes are now costing an average of $0.06 per kilowatt hour (kWh), although some schemes are coming in at $0.04 per KwH, while the cost of solar PV is down to $0.10 per KwH. In comparison, the cost of electricity generation based on fossil fuels typically falls in a range of $0.05 to $0.17 per KwH."

There are a few public utility customers whose solar panels not only provide "free" electricity but they actually sell some of their surplus energy back to their local utility.

Can we live in a world without fossil fuels? | DW | 09.11.2017

Wow, a graph projecting out to 2045 assuming what?

They see the complete end to the coal and oil and nuclear industries?

Apparently, ending the contributions of all non-renewable energy sources to global GDP is the end game, but I'm unsure how long that is supposed to take?

Can we live in a world without fossil fuels? | DW | 09.11.2017

"Global energy production - especially coal - contributes to 20 percent of all carbon emissions. If the electricity system were to only be powered by renewables, emissions could drop by 60 percent by 2025.

"By 2030, they could drop by 80 percent.

"'Such a scenario is indeed realistic, since renewable energy sources are becoming cheaper and cheaper,' said climate economist Claudia Kemfert of the German Institute for Economic Research in Berlin (DIW) when the study was released.

"Utopia or realistic scenario?

"'We've seen in the past that all studies did underestimate the development of renewable energy. That's why it's going so much quicker than anticipated and we are looking ahead to the next three decades, where we can meet the target of 100 percent renewables in our energy mix,' she added.

"Energy Watch Group head Hans-Josef Fell agrees with that assessment and says the finance sector also plays a huge role in accelerating this dynamic. 'Financial institutions now regard investments in coal, nuclear, oil and gas as risky and terminate their commitments,' he said."

more the same, trying to pass outrageous projections as something based in reality or fact.

 

[progressive hunter]

I don't knock confirmed tech, but you need to be realistic in what it can do in the near term. Scandinavia invested billions and it is not returning the investment. When I was in Denmark about 1/3 of the wind turbines were shut down due to mechanical problems and the rest were killing birds. We need to proceed with sensible caution on this.

thats all true to a point, but you do have to kill a few birds and waste a little money for any chance to make it work.
think about all the people that have died due to bad pharma, 10 yrs ago it was the #1 killer and today its down to about 3rd

and there are thousands of homes across the country being powered by solar and wind and a lot of them its unrealistic to bring a hardwire to them...no other options

as to the birds the problem is they are use vertical windmills instead of the horizontal ones, and yes its been proven that large solar farms are not the solution where as induvidual systems are a very positive solution or at least in some areas a good offset during high usage periods

there are zero homes across the country being powered solely by solar and wind. that is a fantasy. Here in south Louisiana you can get a solar system for around 25K with 70-80% of it being refunded by the state and federal govt on your tax return, several of my neighbors have had them installed, the average saving on their power bill is $70 per month. So 25K times 80% = 5K out of pocket, divided by 70 = 71 months to break even. almost 6 years and the expected life of the panels is not much more than that. so even with the govt contribution (paid for by the rest of the taxpayers) its not a very good deal.

We will get there, but we aint there yet by a long shot.

Yet here in the Rocky Mountains above where there are any powerlines or gas lines, Solar and Wind power is used for many homes. Suagge is done by leak fields, water is either hauled in or done by wells or natural springs, heat is done by hardwood. It's uncommon but not unheard of. My Sister has a place like that. The closest power line is over 2 miles away. It would cost over 50,000 bucks to string power into her place. She uses batteries in the evenings. Funny, as far out as she is, she has Wifi since she can see the city. So don't tell me that it's neither done nor it can't be done. High country residents are all like that. And there are more out there than you would imagine. You flatlanders are just wimps.

daryl youre not saying redfish is full of it are you???

he is displaying his ignorance, nothing more.

redfish its funny to watch you complain about ignorance

 

[martybegan]

Large batteries.

Large HEAVY batteries.

Let's not forget that with liquid jet fuel the weight of the aircraft lessens as the fuel is consumed thereby extending the range of the aircraft. With a battery when the power is drained you still have to lug around the weight

I just had an awesome idea for detachable drone batteries that fly to collection points along the route....

The drone Vacuum Cleaners beat you to it.

Yeah, because running over a floor sucking up dirt remotely is the same as detaching from a moving airplane and landing at a centralized collection point....

And having the ability to return to the docking station and recharge itself. It's the same concept.

Like tee ball and MLB are the same thing....

 

[karpenter]

Ever Notice In Prepper Shows
They Have An Armory, And Food Stock-Piles
But No Seed Or Livestock
No Farm Implements

How Will They Hide And Protect Their Farms From Roving Marauders

Anarchists Say We'll All Live On The Honor System

 

[Pilot1]

if fossils ran out then there is no competition, better to get the kinks out now instead of waiting til after the last minute

We have centuries of fossil fuels, and finding more huge reserves all the time, and that is just in the U.S. It is so plentiful it can be considered somewhat like a renewable resource.

A lot more people are living off the grid than people realize, and not for energy reasons.

 

[martybegan]

You do realize a roof built to say a florida code wouldn't last a single winter in say Maine, right?

what kind of moron would build a roof to florida standards in maine???

a complete moron

whats worse is a moron using that as a comparison or ...exactly why are you comparing them???put down the hammer and step away from the nail....please

What I am trying to allude to is a State like California mandating a code requirement like solar panels for a State so large as to have multiple climate types.

Again, it may be a good idea in San Diego, but north of San fran they have a far more cloudy/overcast climate.

But progressives like one size fits all solutions to "problems" and who the fuck cares if it adds $20k to the cost of a new home.

as far as structure thats already been calculated in and houses in the north are just fine,,
but I agree in state wide in cali might be over reach where as state wide in new mexico,arizona or texas would only make sense

youd be a moron to live in say phoenix and not have them

but structure is the last concern since the add up to less than 5lbs per sq ft

You also have to take into account the additional penetrations needed for the electrical connections, and as these locations up north see more precipitation than south it adds to the complexity of the roof above and beyond the loading.

My point is with the reduced efficiencies found in more northern latitudes, is mandating it state-wide just virtue signaling?

So instead of 90 percent you only get 75%. That's better than nothing. Around here, we have a ton of Solar. Solar even puts out power during rain storms but it might be only 60%. But 60% is better than nothing. With the new Solar Panels, during a real sunny day right at Noon, it's nothing to get a 95% rating. Add batteries to that for the evenings and you have your lights, AC, and more 24/7 with a surplus. So you only get 70% where you are at with the new systems. That's better than nothing. And it's cost affective pretty quick if it's already built into the cost of building the house. All the new Commercial Buildings being built for the last 2 years all have Solar built into them. Your point doesn't have a point other than just throwing BS into the Ball game.

That reduction could be enough to extend the payoff period of the panels past their usable life. and 60% during the rain? Do you have backup for that?

It's more of the same, government forcing a one size fits all cost to people regardless of the desire to do it.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

consider the source...

but dont knock a confirmed tech over politics,

I don't knock confirmed tech, but you need to be realistic in what it can do in the near term. Scandinavia invested billions and it is not returning the investment. When I was in Denmark about 1/3 of the wind turbines were shut down due to mechanical problems and the rest were killing birds. We need to proceed with sensible caution on this.

thats all true to a point, but you do have to kill a few birds and waste a little money for any chance to make it work.
think about all the people that have died due to bad pharma, 10 yrs ago it was the #1 killer and today its down to about 3rd

and there are thousands of homes across the country being powered by solar and wind and a lot of them its unrealistic to bring a hardwire to them...no other options

as to the birds the problem is they are use vertical windmills instead of the horizontal ones, and yes its been proven that large solar farms are not the solution where as induvidual systems are a very positive solution or at least in some areas a good offset during high usage periods

there are zero homes across the country being powered solely by solar and wind. that is a fantasy. Here in south Louisiana you can get a solar system for around 25K with 70-80% of it being refunded by the state and federal govt on your tax return, several of my neighbors have had them installed, the average saving on their power bill is $70 per month. So 25K times 80% = 5K out of pocket, divided by 70 = 71 months to break even. almost 6 years and the expected life of the panels is not much more than that. so even with the govt contribution (paid for by the rest of the taxpayers) its not a very good deal.

We will get there, but we aint there yet by a long shot.

Yet here in the Rocky Mountains above where there are any powerlines or gas lines, Solar and Wind power is used for many homes. Suagge is done by leak fields, water is either hauled in or done by wells or natural springs, heat is done by hardwood. It's uncommon but not unheard of. My Sister has a place like that. The closest power line is over 2 miles away. It would cost over 50,000 bucks to string power into her place. She uses batteries in the evenings. Funny, as far out as she is, she has Wifi since she can see the city. So don't tell me that it's neither done nor it can't be done. High country residents are all like that. And there are more out there than you would imagine. You flatlanders are just wimps.

don't give me that crap, I lived in Denver for many years, as well as Michigan, San Diego, Atlanta, and Wash DC. for each house living "off the grid" as you describe there are 10 million living in cities and using fossil fuel generated electricity.

and "heat is done by hardwood" like by burning it? How do you justify putting all that pollution into the air just to stay warm? (sarcasm, since the whole alternative fuel thing is supposed to stop pollution).

How is an apartment dweller in Newark supposed to live off the grid? Its a fantasy, wake up.

Let's see. For every yard of wood grown, they plant two yards of trees or care for 10 yards of trees. That means for every carbon element they put into the system, they take out either the same or more carbon units by replacing them with oxygen. True caretakers of the land give back more then they take out. The person in Newark is just taking out and giving nothing in return. I currently don't heat with fossil fuels of any kind. Since my electricity comes from Hydro Electricity, I don't take out to heat or cool like you do. I try to drive as little a possible.

My current project is to put a 3 wheeled electric Car/trike onto the road that uses NO fossil fuel at all and costs pennies on the dollar to operate. It will have a heater, defroster, AC, stereo and all that. And get the equiv of about 800 mpg in fuel costs. And have a range of only 100 miles. But I don't drive even that far anymore so whats the difference. But there is still my trustworthy and gas hoggy F-250 sitting out there for any long hauls or hauls period. Total cost of the build? About 2 thousand before adding the niceties like AC, Stereo and Heater. Total cost per year to operate, about 100 bucks. Total cost to register and insure it per year? About 100 bucks. How safe is it? Safety Roll Cage with a 4 pt safety harness. Your 2 ton monstrosity should be so safe. Performance? It only has about 4 hp but it should do zero to 60 in about 7 seconds. Seats 2. Now, you know I do things for the world, what are YOU doing for the world other than just making excuses.

 

[karpenter]

A lot more people are living off the grid than people realize, and not for energy reasons.

And Most Still Commute To Their Jobs In The City
And Harvest Their Food In The Supermarkets

I Could Tiny Home It Myself
But I'd Need A Barn For All The Stuff I Do

 

[Redfish]

I don't knock confirmed tech, but you need to be realistic in what it can do in the near term. Scandinavia invested billions and it is not returning the investment. When I was in Denmark about 1/3 of the wind turbines were shut down due to mechanical problems and the rest were killing birds. We need to proceed with sensible caution on this.

thats all true to a point, but you do have to kill a few birds and waste a little money for any chance to make it work.
think about all the people that have died due to bad pharma, 10 yrs ago it was the #1 killer and today its down to about 3rd

and there are thousands of homes across the country being powered by solar and wind and a lot of them its unrealistic to bring a hardwire to them...no other options

as to the birds the problem is they are use vertical windmills instead of the horizontal ones, and yes its been proven that large solar farms are not the solution where as induvidual systems are a very positive solution or at least in some areas a good offset during high usage periods

there are zero homes across the country being powered solely by solar and wind. that is a fantasy. Here in south Louisiana you can get a solar system for around 25K with 70-80% of it being refunded by the state and federal govt on your tax return, several of my neighbors have had them installed, the average saving on their power bill is $70 per month. So 25K times 80% = 5K out of pocket, divided by 70 = 71 months to break even. almost 6 years and the expected life of the panels is not much more than that. so even with the govt contribution (paid for by the rest of the taxpayers) its not a very good deal.

We will get there, but we aint there yet by a long shot.

Yet here in the Rocky Mountains above where there are any powerlines or gas lines, Solar and Wind power is used for many homes. Suagge is done by leak fields, water is either hauled in or done by wells or natural springs, heat is done by hardwood. It's uncommon but not unheard of. My Sister has a place like that. The closest power line is over 2 miles away. It would cost over 50,000 bucks to string power into her place. She uses batteries in the evenings. Funny, as far out as she is, she has Wifi since she can see the city. So don't tell me that it's neither done nor it can't be done. High country residents are all like that. And there are more out there than you would imagine. You flatlanders are just wimps.

don't give me that crap, I lived in Denver for many years, as well as Michigan, San Diego, Atlanta, and Wash DC. for each house living "off the grid" as you describe there are 10 million living in cities and using fossil fuel generated electricity.

and "heat is done by hardwood" like by burning it? How do you justify putting all that pollution into the air just to stay warm? (sarcasm, since the whole alternative fuel thing is supposed to stop pollution).

How is an apartment dweller in Newark supposed to live off the grid? Its a fantasy, wake up.

Let's see. For every yard of wood grown, they plant two yards of trees or care for 10 yards of trees. That means for every carbon element they put into the system, they take out either the same or more carbon units by replacing them with oxygen. True caretakers of the land give back more then they take out. The person in Newark is just taking out and giving nothing in return. I currently don't heat with fossil fuels of any kind. Since my electricity comes from Hydro Electricity, I don't take out to heat or cool like you do. I try to drive as little a possible.

My current project is to put a 3 wheeled electric Car/trike onto the road that uses NO fossil fuel at all and costs pennies on the dollar to operate. It will have a heater, defroster, AC, stereo and all that. And get the equiv of about 800 mpg in fuel costs. And have a range of only 100 miles. But I don't drive even that far anymore so whats the difference. But there is still my trustworthy and gas hoggy F-250 sitting out there for any long hauls or hauls period. Total cost of the build? About 2 thousand before adding the niceties like AC, Stereo and Heater. Total cost per year to operate, about 100 bucks. Total cost to register and insure it per year? About 100 bucks. How safe is it? Safety Roll Cage with a 4 pt safety harness. Your 2 ton monstrosity should be so safe. Performance? It only has about 4 hp but it should do zero to 60 in about 7 seconds. Seats 2. Now, you know I do things for the world, what are YOU doing for the world other than just making excuses.

all of that is just great, I hope it works for you. I assume that your vehicle is battery powered, where do you plan to get the electricity to recharge the batteries? Do you plan to pay for it?

what am I doing? enjoying life and not worrying about some sky is falling scenario about man made climate change. I try to limit my fuel consumption and keep my thermostats are reasonable settings year round. If you want to live like a cave dweller, go for it.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

what kind of moron would build a roof to florida standards in maine???

a complete moron

whats worse is a moron using that as a comparison or ...exactly why are you comparing them???put down the hammer and step away from the nail....please

What I am trying to allude to is a State like California mandating a code requirement like solar panels for a State so large as to have multiple climate types.

Again, it may be a good idea in San Diego, but north of San fran they have a far more cloudy/overcast climate.

But progressives like one size fits all solutions to "problems" and who the fuck cares if it adds $20k to the cost of a new home.

as far as structure thats already been calculated in and houses in the north are just fine,,
but I agree in state wide in cali might be over reach where as state wide in new mexico,arizona or texas would only make sense

youd be a moron to live in say phoenix and not have them

but structure is the last concern since the add up to less than 5lbs per sq ft

You also have to take into account the additional penetrations needed for the electrical connections, and as these locations up north see more precipitation than south it adds to the complexity of the roof above and beyond the loading.

My point is with the reduced efficiencies found in more northern latitudes, is mandating it state-wide just virtue signaling?

So instead of 90 percent you only get 75%. That's better than nothing. Around here, we have a ton of Solar. Solar even puts out power during rain storms but it might be only 60%. But 60% is better than nothing. With the new Solar Panels, during a real sunny day right at Noon, it's nothing to get a 95% rating. Add batteries to that for the evenings and you have your lights, AC, and more 24/7 with a surplus. So you only get 70% where you are at with the new systems. That's better than nothing. And it's cost affective pretty quick if it's already built into the cost of building the house. All the new Commercial Buildings being built for the last 2 years all have Solar built into them. Your point doesn't have a point other than just throwing BS into the Ball game.

That reduction could be enough to extend the payoff period of the panels past their usable life. and 60% during the rain? Do you have backup for that?

It's more of the same, government forcing a one size fits all cost to people regardless of the desire to do it.

On the average, 8 hours a day, the sun don't shine. Even in a rain storm or overcast, the sun shines and you still get 60% solar power. On a sunny day, using the new solar panels, you can get up to 95% output. Now, couple that with lithium batteries or even old style Deep Cells and you have power for that 8 hours you don't have any power coming from your panels. Again, when you do the planning for construction and you build this in, the cost is much lower than if you add it later. We don't have any mandate here that requires new Commercial Builds to install solar power but they are doing it anyway because it's just plain the smart thing to do. So it doesn't matter if the Government says you have to do it or not, it's the smart thing to do. You can play the spoiled little kid if you want but the rest of us will do the smart thing.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

thats all true to a point, but you do have to kill a few birds and waste a little money for any chance to make it work.
think about all the people that have died due to bad pharma, 10 yrs ago it was the #1 killer and today its down to about 3rd

and there are thousands of homes across the country being powered by solar and wind and a lot of them its unrealistic to bring a hardwire to them...no other options

as to the birds the problem is they are use vertical windmills instead of the horizontal ones, and yes its been proven that large solar farms are not the solution where as induvidual systems are a very positive solution or at least in some areas a good offset during high usage periods

there are zero homes across the country being powered solely by solar and wind. that is a fantasy. Here in south Louisiana you can get a solar system for around 25K with 70-80% of it being refunded by the state and federal govt on your tax return, several of my neighbors have had them installed, the average saving on their power bill is $70 per month. So 25K times 80% = 5K out of pocket, divided by 70 = 71 months to break even. almost 6 years and the expected life of the panels is not much more than that. so even with the govt contribution (paid for by the rest of the taxpayers) its not a very good deal.

We will get there, but we aint there yet by a long shot.

Yet here in the Rocky Mountains above where there are any powerlines or gas lines, Solar and Wind power is used for many homes. Suagge is done by leak fields, water is either hauled in or done by wells or natural springs, heat is done by hardwood. It's uncommon but not unheard of. My Sister has a place like that. The closest power line is over 2 miles away. It would cost over 50,000 bucks to string power into her place. She uses batteries in the evenings. Funny, as far out as she is, she has Wifi since she can see the city. So don't tell me that it's neither done nor it can't be done. High country residents are all like that. And there are more out there than you would imagine. You flatlanders are just wimps.

don't give me that crap, I lived in Denver for many years, as well as Michigan, San Diego, Atlanta, and Wash DC. for each house living "off the grid" as you describe there are 10 million living in cities and using fossil fuel generated electricity.

and "heat is done by hardwood" like by burning it? How do you justify putting all that pollution into the air just to stay warm? (sarcasm, since the whole alternative fuel thing is supposed to stop pollution).

How is an apartment dweller in Newark supposed to live off the grid? Its a fantasy, wake up.

Let's see. For every yard of wood grown, they plant two yards of trees or care for 10 yards of trees. That means for every carbon element they put into the system, they take out either the same or more carbon units by replacing them with oxygen. True caretakers of the land give back more then they take out. The person in Newark is just taking out and giving nothing in return. I currently don't heat with fossil fuels of any kind. Since my electricity comes from Hydro Electricity, I don't take out to heat or cool like you do. I try to drive as little a possible.

My current project is to put a 3 wheeled electric Car/trike onto the road that uses NO fossil fuel at all and costs pennies on the dollar to operate. It will have a heater, defroster, AC, stereo and all that. And get the equiv of about 800 mpg in fuel costs. And have a range of only 100 miles. But I don't drive even that far anymore so whats the difference. But there is still my trustworthy and gas hoggy F-250 sitting out there for any long hauls or hauls period. Total cost of the build? About 2 thousand before adding the niceties like AC, Stereo and Heater. Total cost per year to operate, about 100 bucks. Total cost to register and insure it per year? About 100 bucks. How safe is it? Safety Roll Cage with a 4 pt safety harness. Your 2 ton monstrosity should be so safe. Performance? It only has about 4 hp but it should do zero to 60 in about 7 seconds. Seats 2. Now, you know I do things for the world, what are YOU doing for the world other than just making excuses.

all of that is just great, I hope it works for you. I assume that your vehicle is battery powered, where do you plan to get the electricity to recharge the batteries? Do you plan to pay for it?

what am I doing? enjoying life and not worrying about some sky is falling scenario about man made climate change. I try to limit my fuel consumption and keep my thermostats are reasonable settings year round. If you want to live like a cave dweller, go for it.

I pay for some of it. But I also have a Solar Panel for recharging at other times. And when I pay for it, it comes from Hydroelectric power. We really do have cheap electric power here. Decades ago, we shut down our coal and NG power plants and never looked back.

And, hey, I have thought about finding a nice hill side to build a nice home in. Think of this, the cooling and heating bills would be nothing. But the lighting bills might be staggering if you don't have solar.

 

[progressive hunter]

if fossils ran out then there is no competition, better to get the kinks out now instead of waiting til after the last minute

We have centuries of fossil fuels, and finding more huge reserves all the time, and that is just in the U.S. It is so plentiful it can be considered somewhat like a renewable resource.

A lot more people are living off the grid than people realize, and not for energy reasons.

its not a matter of how much is there, but what it takes to get it ,, 75 yrs ago crude was laying on the surface and we could just scoop it up, today we have to create mini earthquakes to get it,

think about the corn gas problem where it takes 1.5 gals of fossil to make 1 gal of ethanol...same is starting to happen to crude, it

and coal production is leveling mountains and destroying entire forest and waterways

 

[karpenter]

Let's see. For every yard of wood grown, they plant two yards of trees or care for 10 yards of trees.

We're Presuming Everyone Has The Land
The 60yrs It Takes To Grow A Tree
No Wildfires Blow Through
And No One Messes With It

There's 320 Million Of Us Living Off The Grid