Renewable Energy Will Be Consistently Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels By 2020

[progressive hunter]

what kind of moron would build a roof to florida standards in maine???

a complete moron

whats worse is a moron using that as a comparison or ...exactly why are you comparing them???put down the hammer and step away from the nail....please

What I am trying to allude to is a State like California mandating a code requirement like solar panels for a State so large as to have multiple climate types.

Again, it may be a good idea in San Diego, but north of San fran they have a far more cloudy/overcast climate.

But progressives like one size fits all solutions to "problems" and who the fuck cares if it adds $20k to the cost of a new home.

as far as structure thats already been calculated in and houses in the north are just fine,,
but I agree in state wide in cali might be over reach where as state wide in new mexico,arizona or texas would only make sense

youd be a moron to live in say phoenix and not have them

but structure is the last concern since the add up to less than 5lbs per sq ft

You also have to take into account the additional penetrations needed for the electrical connections, and as these locations up north see more precipitation than south it adds to the complexity of the roof above and beyond the loading.

My point is with the reduced efficiencies found in more northern latitudes, is mandating it state-wide just virtue signaling?

So instead of 90 percent you only get 75%. That's better than nothing. Around here, we have a ton of Solar. Solar even puts out power during rain storms but it might be only 60%. But 60% is better than nothing. With the new Solar Panels, during a real sunny day right at Noon, it's nothing to get a 95% rating. Add batteries to that for the evenings and you have your lights, AC, and more 24/7 with a surplus. So you only get 70% where you are at with the new systems. That's better than nothing. And it's cost affective pretty quick if it's already built into the cost of building the house. All the new Commercial Buildings being built for the last 2 years all have Solar built into them. Your point doesn't have a point other than just throwing BS into the Ball game.

That reduction could be enough to extend the payoff period of the panels past their usable life. and 60% during the rain? Do you have backup for that?

It's more of the same, government forcing a one size fits all cost to people regardless of the desire to do it.

what we have now is one size fits all with electric,,,as well as toilets

did you complain then??

 

[Redfish]

there are zero homes across the country being powered solely by solar and wind. that is a fantasy. Here in south Louisiana you can get a solar system for around 25K with 70-80% of it being refunded by the state and federal govt on your tax return, several of my neighbors have had them installed, the average saving on their power bill is $70 per month. So 25K times 80% = 5K out of pocket, divided by 70 = 71 months to break even. almost 6 years and the expected life of the panels is not much more than that. so even with the govt contribution (paid for by the rest of the taxpayers) its not a very good deal.

We will get there, but we aint there yet by a long shot.

Yet here in the Rocky Mountains above where there are any powerlines or gas lines, Solar and Wind power is used for many homes. Suagge is done by leak fields, water is either hauled in or done by wells or natural springs, heat is done by hardwood. It's uncommon but not unheard of. My Sister has a place like that. The closest power line is over 2 miles away. It would cost over 50,000 bucks to string power into her place. She uses batteries in the evenings. Funny, as far out as she is, she has Wifi since she can see the city. So don't tell me that it's neither done nor it can't be done. High country residents are all like that. And there are more out there than you would imagine. You flatlanders are just wimps.

don't give me that crap, I lived in Denver for many years, as well as Michigan, San Diego, Atlanta, and Wash DC. for each house living "off the grid" as you describe there are 10 million living in cities and using fossil fuel generated electricity.

and "heat is done by hardwood" like by burning it? How do you justify putting all that pollution into the air just to stay warm? (sarcasm, since the whole alternative fuel thing is supposed to stop pollution).

How is an apartment dweller in Newark supposed to live off the grid? Its a fantasy, wake up.

Let's see. For every yard of wood grown, they plant two yards of trees or care for 10 yards of trees. That means for every carbon element they put into the system, they take out either the same or more carbon units by replacing them with oxygen. True caretakers of the land give back more then they take out. The person in Newark is just taking out and giving nothing in return. I currently don't heat with fossil fuels of any kind. Since my electricity comes from Hydro Electricity, I don't take out to heat or cool like you do. I try to drive as little a possible.

My current project is to put a 3 wheeled electric Car/trike onto the road that uses NO fossil fuel at all and costs pennies on the dollar to operate. It will have a heater, defroster, AC, stereo and all that. And get the equiv of about 800 mpg in fuel costs. And have a range of only 100 miles. But I don't drive even that far anymore so whats the difference. But there is still my trustworthy and gas hoggy F-250 sitting out there for any long hauls or hauls period. Total cost of the build? About 2 thousand before adding the niceties like AC, Stereo and Heater. Total cost per year to operate, about 100 bucks. Total cost to register and insure it per year? About 100 bucks. How safe is it? Safety Roll Cage with a 4 pt safety harness. Your 2 ton monstrosity should be so safe. Performance? It only has about 4 hp but it should do zero to 60 in about 7 seconds. Seats 2. Now, you know I do things for the world, what are YOU doing for the world other than just making excuses.

all of that is just great, I hope it works for you. I assume that your vehicle is battery powered, where do you plan to get the electricity to recharge the batteries? Do you plan to pay for it?

what am I doing? enjoying life and not worrying about some sky is falling scenario about man made climate change. I try to limit my fuel consumption and keep my thermostats are reasonable settings year round. If you want to live like a cave dweller, go for it.

I pay for some of it. But I also have a Solar Panel for recharging at other times. And when I pay for it, it comes from Hydroelectric power. We really do have cheap electric power here. Decades ago, we shut down our coal and NG power plants and never looked back.

And, hey, I have thought about finding a nice hill side to build a nice home in. Think of this, the cooling and heating bills would be nothing. But the lighting bills might be staggering if you don't have solar.

great, it may work for you, but an apartment dweller in a big city? I think not. and there are a lot more of them than there are people living in the woods on the side of a mountain.

 

[martybegan]

What I am trying to allude to is a State like California mandating a code requirement like solar panels for a State so large as to have multiple climate types.

Again, it may be a good idea in San Diego, but north of San fran they have a far more cloudy/overcast climate.

But progressives like one size fits all solutions to "problems" and who the fuck cares if it adds $20k to the cost of a new home.

as far as structure thats already been calculated in and houses in the north are just fine,,
but I agree in state wide in cali might be over reach where as state wide in new mexico,arizona or texas would only make sense

youd be a moron to live in say phoenix and not have them

but structure is the last concern since the add up to less than 5lbs per sq ft

You also have to take into account the additional penetrations needed for the electrical connections, and as these locations up north see more precipitation than south it adds to the complexity of the roof above and beyond the loading.

My point is with the reduced efficiencies found in more northern latitudes, is mandating it state-wide just virtue signaling?

So instead of 90 percent you only get 75%. That's better than nothing. Around here, we have a ton of Solar. Solar even puts out power during rain storms but it might be only 60%. But 60% is better than nothing. With the new Solar Panels, during a real sunny day right at Noon, it's nothing to get a 95% rating. Add batteries to that for the evenings and you have your lights, AC, and more 24/7 with a surplus. So you only get 70% where you are at with the new systems. That's better than nothing. And it's cost affective pretty quick if it's already built into the cost of building the house. All the new Commercial Buildings being built for the last 2 years all have Solar built into them. Your point doesn't have a point other than just throwing BS into the Ball game.

That reduction could be enough to extend the payoff period of the panels past their usable life. and 60% during the rain? Do you have backup for that?

It's more of the same, government forcing a one size fits all cost to people regardless of the desire to do it.

On the average, 8 hours a day, the sun don't shine. Even in a rain storm or overcast, the sun shines and you still get 60% solar power. On a sunny day, using the new solar panels, you can get up to 95% output. Now, couple that with lithium batteries or even old style Deep Cells and you have power for that 8 hours you don't have any power coming from your panels. Again, when you do the planning for construction and you build this in, the cost is much lower than if you add it later. We don't have any mandate here that requires new Commercial Builds to install solar power but they are doing it anyway because it's just plain the smart thing to do. So it doesn't matter if the Government says you have to do it or not, it's the smart thing to do. You can play the spoiled little kid if you want but the rest of us will do the smart thing.

I see mostly 10-25% on a cloudy day, not 60%. Where did you get your number from?

Solar Panels Do Work On Cloudy Days | CleanTechnica

In the northeast the sun rises at 7 AM and sets at 4 PM in the winter. Is that 8 hours of no sun?

Why do you have to use crap numbers to justify your position?

Why do you have to use government to force me to do the "smart thing?"

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Let's see. For every yard of wood grown, they plant two yards of trees or care for 10 yards of trees.

We're Presuming Everyone Has The Land
The 60yrs It Takes To Grow A Tree
And No One Messes With It

There's 320 Million Of Us Living Off The Grid

And 20 million are taking more than their fair share of it and giving zero back in return.

 

[martybegan]

What I am trying to allude to is a State like California mandating a code requirement like solar panels for a State so large as to have multiple climate types.

Again, it may be a good idea in San Diego, but north of San fran they have a far more cloudy/overcast climate.

But progressives like one size fits all solutions to "problems" and who the fuck cares if it adds $20k to the cost of a new home.

as far as structure thats already been calculated in and houses in the north are just fine,,
but I agree in state wide in cali might be over reach where as state wide in new mexico,arizona or texas would only make sense

youd be a moron to live in say phoenix and not have them

but structure is the last concern since the add up to less than 5lbs per sq ft

You also have to take into account the additional penetrations needed for the electrical connections, and as these locations up north see more precipitation than south it adds to the complexity of the roof above and beyond the loading.

My point is with the reduced efficiencies found in more northern latitudes, is mandating it state-wide just virtue signaling?

So instead of 90 percent you only get 75%. That's better than nothing. Around here, we have a ton of Solar. Solar even puts out power during rain storms but it might be only 60%. But 60% is better than nothing. With the new Solar Panels, during a real sunny day right at Noon, it's nothing to get a 95% rating. Add batteries to that for the evenings and you have your lights, AC, and more 24/7 with a surplus. So you only get 70% where you are at with the new systems. That's better than nothing. And it's cost affective pretty quick if it's already built into the cost of building the house. All the new Commercial Buildings being built for the last 2 years all have Solar built into them. Your point doesn't have a point other than just throwing BS into the Ball game.

That reduction could be enough to extend the payoff period of the panels past their usable life. and 60% during the rain? Do you have backup for that?

It's more of the same, government forcing a one size fits all cost to people regardless of the desire to do it.

what we have now is one size fits all with electric,,,as well as toilets

did you complain then??

I want an electric connection to my house. it doesn't have to be forced on me.

and may places are forcing the bullshit low flow toilets that sometimes require 2-3 flushes to get rid of the waste.

The better option is the dual mode toilets, but some places even the 2nd larger flush mode is too limited.

 

[progressive hunter]

Let's see. For every yard of wood grown, they plant two yards of trees or care for 10 yards of trees.

We're Presuming Everyone Has The Land
The 60yrs It Takes To Grow A Tree
And No One Messes With It

There's 320 Million Of Us Living Off The Grid

where did you get the idea it takes 60 yrs to grow a tree, your ignorance is showing so it might be best to STFU until you understand what youre talking about

 

[Rustic]

What I am trying to allude to is a State like California mandating a code requirement like solar panels for a State so large as to have multiple climate types.

Again, it may be a good idea in San Diego, but north of San fran they have a far more cloudy/overcast climate.

But progressives like one size fits all solutions to "problems" and who the fuck cares if it adds $20k to the cost of a new home.

as far as structure thats already been calculated in and houses in the north are just fine,,
but I agree in state wide in cali might be over reach where as state wide in new mexico,arizona or texas would only make sense

youd be a moron to live in say phoenix and not have them

but structure is the last concern since the add up to less than 5lbs per sq ft

You also have to take into account the additional penetrations needed for the electrical connections, and as these locations up north see more precipitation than south it adds to the complexity of the roof above and beyond the loading.

My point is with the reduced efficiencies found in more northern latitudes, is mandating it state-wide just virtue signaling?

So instead of 90 percent you only get 75%. That's better than nothing. Around here, we have a ton of Solar. Solar even puts out power during rain storms but it might be only 60%. But 60% is better than nothing. With the new Solar Panels, during a real sunny day right at Noon, it's nothing to get a 95% rating. Add batteries to that for the evenings and you have your lights, AC, and more 24/7 with a surplus. So you only get 70% where you are at with the new systems. That's better than nothing. And it's cost affective pretty quick if it's already built into the cost of building the house. All the new Commercial Buildings being built for the last 2 years all have Solar built into them. Your point doesn't have a point other than just throwing BS into the Ball game.

That reduction could be enough to extend the payoff period of the panels past their usable life. and 60% during the rain? Do you have backup for that?

It's more of the same, government forcing a one size fits all cost to people regardless of the desire to do it.

On the average, 8 hours a day, the sun don't shine. Even in a rain storm or overcast, the sun shines and you still get 60% solar power. On a sunny day, using the new solar panels, you can get up to 95% output. Now, couple that with lithium batteries or even old style Deep Cells and you have power for that 8 hours you don't have any power coming from your panels. Again, when you do the planning for construction and you build this in, the cost is much lower than if you add it later. We don't have any mandate here that requires new Commercial Builds to install solar power but they are doing it anyway because it's just plain the smart thing to do. So it doesn't matter if the Government says you have to do it or not, it's the smart thing to do. You can play the spoiled little kid if you want but the rest of us will do the smart thing.

Lol
Without fossil fuels the northern plains are a wasteland... uninhabitable.

We have barely found the tip of the iceberg up here on the available fossil fuel energies.
That’s just the way it is, we actually have four seasons of here a lot of the country does not

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Yet here in the Rocky Mountains above where there are any powerlines or gas lines, Solar and Wind power is used for many homes. Suagge is done by leak fields, water is either hauled in or done by wells or natural springs, heat is done by hardwood. It's uncommon but not unheard of. My Sister has a place like that. The closest power line is over 2 miles away. It would cost over 50,000 bucks to string power into her place. She uses batteries in the evenings. Funny, as far out as she is, she has Wifi since she can see the city. So don't tell me that it's neither done nor it can't be done. High country residents are all like that. And there are more out there than you would imagine. You flatlanders are just wimps.

don't give me that crap, I lived in Denver for many years, as well as Michigan, San Diego, Atlanta, and Wash DC. for each house living "off the grid" as you describe there are 10 million living in cities and using fossil fuel generated electricity.

and "heat is done by hardwood" like by burning it? How do you justify putting all that pollution into the air just to stay warm? (sarcasm, since the whole alternative fuel thing is supposed to stop pollution).

How is an apartment dweller in Newark supposed to live off the grid? Its a fantasy, wake up.

Let's see. For every yard of wood grown, they plant two yards of trees or care for 10 yards of trees. That means for every carbon element they put into the system, they take out either the same or more carbon units by replacing them with oxygen. True caretakers of the land give back more then they take out. The person in Newark is just taking out and giving nothing in return. I currently don't heat with fossil fuels of any kind. Since my electricity comes from Hydro Electricity, I don't take out to heat or cool like you do. I try to drive as little a possible.

My current project is to put a 3 wheeled electric Car/trike onto the road that uses NO fossil fuel at all and costs pennies on the dollar to operate. It will have a heater, defroster, AC, stereo and all that. And get the equiv of about 800 mpg in fuel costs. And have a range of only 100 miles. But I don't drive even that far anymore so whats the difference. But there is still my trustworthy and gas hoggy F-250 sitting out there for any long hauls or hauls period. Total cost of the build? About 2 thousand before adding the niceties like AC, Stereo and Heater. Total cost per year to operate, about 100 bucks. Total cost to register and insure it per year? About 100 bucks. How safe is it? Safety Roll Cage with a 4 pt safety harness. Your 2 ton monstrosity should be so safe. Performance? It only has about 4 hp but it should do zero to 60 in about 7 seconds. Seats 2. Now, you know I do things for the world, what are YOU doing for the world other than just making excuses.

all of that is just great, I hope it works for you. I assume that your vehicle is battery powered, where do you plan to get the electricity to recharge the batteries? Do you plan to pay for it?

what am I doing? enjoying life and not worrying about some sky is falling scenario about man made climate change. I try to limit my fuel consumption and keep my thermostats are reasonable settings year round. If you want to live like a cave dweller, go for it.

I pay for some of it. But I also have a Solar Panel for recharging at other times. And when I pay for it, it comes from Hydroelectric power. We really do have cheap electric power here. Decades ago, we shut down our coal and NG power plants and never looked back.

And, hey, I have thought about finding a nice hill side to build a nice home in. Think of this, the cooling and heating bills would be nothing. But the lighting bills might be staggering if you don't have solar.

great, it may work for you, but an apartment dweller in a big city? I think not. and there are a lot more of them than there are people living in the woods on the side of a mountain.

Not me. Had enough of that at an early age. I like being able to go get an ice cream at the corner store. But we can do more even living in that apartment if we force the big whigs to do it.

 

[Redfish]

if fossils ran out then there is no competition, better to get the kinks out now instead of waiting til after the last minute

We have centuries of fossil fuels, and finding more huge reserves all the time, and that is just in the U.S. It is so plentiful it can be considered somewhat like a renewable resource.

A lot more people are living off the grid than people realize, and not for energy reasons.

its not a matter of how much is there, but what it takes to get it ,, 75 yrs ago crude was laying on the surface and we could just scoop it up, today we have to create mini earthquakes to get it,

think about the corn gas problem where it takes 1.5 gals of fossil to make 1 gal of ethanol...same is starting to happen to crude, it

and coal production is leveling mountains and destroying entire forest and waterways

there is plenty of crude offshore. open all coasts to drilling leases and the price of gas will plummet.

 

[Pilot1]

if fossils ran out then there is no competition, better to get the kinks out now instead of waiting til after the last minute

We have centuries of fossil fuels, and finding more huge reserves all the time, and that is just in the U.S. It is so plentiful it can be considered somewhat like a renewable resource.

A lot more people are living off the grid than people realize, and not for energy reasons.

its not a matter of how much is there, but what it takes to get it ,, 75 yrs ago crude was laying on the surface and we could just scoop it up, today we have to create mini earthquakes to get it,

think about the corn gas problem where it takes 1.5 gals of fossil to make 1 gal of ethanol...same is starting to happen to crude, it

and coal production is leveling mountains and destroying entire forest and waterways

If it is so "hard to get" then why is world supply at an all time high with low prices to reflect that? Why is the U.S. now a NET EXPORTER OF OIL? Why are we not extracting at many locations we know? Because we are getting oil, and natural gas EASILY, and CHEAPLY, and you just CAN'T STAND THAT. LOL!

Drill baby drill! Low energy prices help the poor, and middle class the most. What about that fact Libs? Don't you want to help the poor, and their CHILDREN?

 

[progressive hunter]

if fossils ran out then there is no competition, better to get the kinks out now instead of waiting til after the last minute

We have centuries of fossil fuels, and finding more huge reserves all the time, and that is just in the U.S. It is so plentiful it can be considered somewhat like a renewable resource.

A lot more people are living off the grid than people realize, and not for energy reasons.

its not a matter of how much is there, but what it takes to get it ,, 75 yrs ago crude was laying on the surface and we could just scoop it up, today we have to create mini earthquakes to get it,

think about the corn gas problem where it takes 1.5 gals of fossil to make 1 gal of ethanol...same is starting to happen to crude, it

and coal production is leveling mountains and destroying entire forest and waterways

If it is so "hard to get" then why is world supply at an all time high with low prices to reflect that? Why is the U.S. now a NET EXPORTER OF OIL? Why are we not extracting at many locations we know? Because we are getting oil, and natural gas EASILY, and CHEAPLY, and you just CAN'T STAND THAT. LOL!

Drill baby drill! Low energy prices help the poor, and middle class the most. What about that fact Libs? Don't you want to help the poor, and their CHILDREN?

you are aware crude has nothing to do with electricity???

 

[Rustic]

there are zero homes across the country being powered solely by solar and wind. that is a fantasy. Here in south Louisiana you can get a solar system for around 25K with 70-80% of it being refunded by the state and federal govt on your tax return, several of my neighbors have had them installed, the average saving on their power bill is $70 per month. So 25K times 80% = 5K out of pocket, divided by 70 = 71 months to break even. almost 6 years and the expected life of the panels is not much more than that. so even with the govt contribution (paid for by the rest of the taxpayers) its not a very good deal.

We will get there, but we aint there yet by a long shot.

Yet here in the Rocky Mountains above where there are any powerlines or gas lines, Solar and Wind power is used for many homes. Suagge is done by leak fields, water is either hauled in or done by wells or natural springs, heat is done by hardwood. It's uncommon but not unheard of. My Sister has a place like that. The closest power line is over 2 miles away. It would cost over 50,000 bucks to string power into her place. She uses batteries in the evenings. Funny, as far out as she is, she has Wifi since she can see the city. So don't tell me that it's neither done nor it can't be done. High country residents are all like that. And there are more out there than you would imagine. You flatlanders are just wimps.

don't give me that crap, I lived in Denver for many years, as well as Michigan, San Diego, Atlanta, and Wash DC. for each house living "off the grid" as you describe there are 10 million living in cities and using fossil fuel generated electricity.

and "heat is done by hardwood" like by burning it? How do you justify putting all that pollution into the air just to stay warm? (sarcasm, since the whole alternative fuel thing is supposed to stop pollution).

How is an apartment dweller in Newark supposed to live off the grid? Its a fantasy, wake up.

Let's see. For every yard of wood grown, they plant two yards of trees or care for 10 yards of trees. That means for every carbon element they put into the system, they take out either the same or more carbon units by replacing them with oxygen. True caretakers of the land give back more then they take out. The person in Newark is just taking out and giving nothing in return. I currently don't heat with fossil fuels of any kind. Since my electricity comes from Hydro Electricity, I don't take out to heat or cool like you do. I try to drive as little a possible.

My current project is to put a 3 wheeled electric Car/trike onto the road that uses NO fossil fuel at all and costs pennies on the dollar to operate. It will have a heater, defroster, AC, stereo and all that. And get the equiv of about 800 mpg in fuel costs. And have a range of only 100 miles. But I don't drive even that far anymore so whats the difference. But there is still my trustworthy and gas hoggy F-250 sitting out there for any long hauls or hauls period. Total cost of the build? About 2 thousand before adding the niceties like AC, Stereo and Heater. Total cost per year to operate, about 100 bucks. Total cost to register and insure it per year? About 100 bucks. How safe is it? Safety Roll Cage with a 4 pt safety harness. Your 2 ton monstrosity should be so safe. Performance? It only has about 4 hp but it should do zero to 60 in about 7 seconds. Seats 2. Now, you know I do things for the world, what are YOU doing for the world other than just making excuses.

all of that is just great, I hope it works for you. I assume that your vehicle is battery powered, where do you plan to get the electricity to recharge the batteries? Do you plan to pay for it?

what am I doing? enjoying life and not worrying about some sky is falling scenario about man made climate change. I try to limit my fuel consumption and keep my thermostats are reasonable settings year round. If you want to live like a cave dweller, go for it.

I pay for some of it. But I also have a Solar Panel for recharging at other times. And when I pay for it, it comes from Hydroelectric power. We really do have cheap electric power here. Decades ago, we shut down our coal and NG power plants and never looked back.

And, hey, I have thought about finding a nice hill side to build a nice home in. Think of this, the cooling and heating bills would be nothing. But the lighting bills might be staggering if you don't have solar.

Lol
That may work down there in cozy Colorado, Renewables don’t work worth a shit up here in the northern plains... They are decades away from being viable, affordable and reliable here.
Without fossil feels the northern plains would be Uninhabitable...

 

[Redfish]

if fossils ran out then there is no competition, better to get the kinks out now instead of waiting til after the last minute

We have centuries of fossil fuels, and finding more huge reserves all the time, and that is just in the U.S. It is so plentiful it can be considered somewhat like a renewable resource.

A lot more people are living off the grid than people realize, and not for energy reasons.

its not a matter of how much is there, but what it takes to get it ,, 75 yrs ago crude was laying on the surface and we could just scoop it up, today we have to create mini earthquakes to get it,

think about the corn gas problem where it takes 1.5 gals of fossil to make 1 gal of ethanol...same is starting to happen to crude, it

and coal production is leveling mountains and destroying entire forest and waterways

If it is so "hard to get" then why is world supply at an all time high with low prices to reflect that? Why is the U.S. now a NET EXPORTER OF OIL? Why are we not extracting at many locations we know? Because we are getting oil, and natural gas EASILY, and CHEAPLY, and you just CAN'T STAND THAT. LOL!

Drill baby drill! Low energy prices help the poor, and middle class the most. What about that fact Libs? Don't you want to help the poor, and their CHILDREN?

you are aware crude has nothing to do with electricity???

so there are no oil fired power plants? Really?

 

[DOTR]

How do you fly an airplane with solar energy?

Asking for a friend.

ask the richest country on earth

Norway aims for all short-haul flights to be 100% electric by 2040 ...

https://www.theguardian.com/.../norway-aims-for-all-short-haul-flights-to-be-100-electri...
Jan 18, 2018 - All of Norway's short-haul airliners should be entirely electric by 2040, the ..... But you are right about the potential for solar-powered airplanes.

Go ahead and "aim". Maybe they can aim for dilithium crystals like the Enterprise used in Star Track while they are at it.

 

[Rustic]

don't give me that crap, I lived in Denver for many years, as well as Michigan, San Diego, Atlanta, and Wash DC. for each house living "off the grid" as you describe there are 10 million living in cities and using fossil fuel generated electricity.

and "heat is done by hardwood" like by burning it? How do you justify putting all that pollution into the air just to stay warm? (sarcasm, since the whole alternative fuel thing is supposed to stop pollution).

How is an apartment dweller in Newark supposed to live off the grid? Its a fantasy, wake up.

Let's see. For every yard of wood grown, they plant two yards of trees or care for 10 yards of trees. That means for every carbon element they put into the system, they take out either the same or more carbon units by replacing them with oxygen. True caretakers of the land give back more then they take out. The person in Newark is just taking out and giving nothing in return. I currently don't heat with fossil fuels of any kind. Since my electricity comes from Hydro Electricity, I don't take out to heat or cool like you do. I try to drive as little a possible.

My current project is to put a 3 wheeled electric Car/trike onto the road that uses NO fossil fuel at all and costs pennies on the dollar to operate. It will have a heater, defroster, AC, stereo and all that. And get the equiv of about 800 mpg in fuel costs. And have a range of only 100 miles. But I don't drive even that far anymore so whats the difference. But there is still my trustworthy and gas hoggy F-250 sitting out there for any long hauls or hauls period. Total cost of the build? About 2 thousand before adding the niceties like AC, Stereo and Heater. Total cost per year to operate, about 100 bucks. Total cost to register and insure it per year? About 100 bucks. How safe is it? Safety Roll Cage with a 4 pt safety harness. Your 2 ton monstrosity should be so safe. Performance? It only has about 4 hp but it should do zero to 60 in about 7 seconds. Seats 2. Now, you know I do things for the world, what are YOU doing for the world other than just making excuses.

all of that is just great, I hope it works for you. I assume that your vehicle is battery powered, where do you plan to get the electricity to recharge the batteries? Do you plan to pay for it?

what am I doing? enjoying life and not worrying about some sky is falling scenario about man made climate change. I try to limit my fuel consumption and keep my thermostats are reasonable settings year round. If you want to live like a cave dweller, go for it.

I pay for some of it. But I also have a Solar Panel for recharging at other times. And when I pay for it, it comes from Hydroelectric power. We really do have cheap electric power here. Decades ago, we shut down our coal and NG power plants and never looked back.

And, hey, I have thought about finding a nice hill side to build a nice home in. Think of this, the cooling and heating bills would be nothing. But the lighting bills might be staggering if you don't have solar.

great, it may work for you, but an apartment dweller in a big city? I think not. and there are a lot more of them than there are people living in the woods on the side of a mountain.

Not me. Had enough of that at an early age. I like being able to go get an ice cream at the corner store. But we can do more even living in that apartment if we force the big whigs to do it.

Lol
To each his own...
I would rather be dead than live in an apartment in urban America… But that’s just me. If I can’t see or hear a neighbor that’s just fine with me....

 

[progressive hunter]

if fossils ran out then there is no competition, better to get the kinks out now instead of waiting til after the last minute

We have centuries of fossil fuels, and finding more huge reserves all the time, and that is just in the U.S. It is so plentiful it can be considered somewhat like a renewable resource.

A lot more people are living off the grid than people realize, and not for energy reasons.

its not a matter of how much is there, but what it takes to get it ,, 75 yrs ago crude was laying on the surface and we could just scoop it up, today we have to create mini earthquakes to get it,

think about the corn gas problem where it takes 1.5 gals of fossil to make 1 gal of ethanol...same is starting to happen to crude, it

and coal production is leveling mountains and destroying entire forest and waterways

there is plenty of crude offshore. open all coasts to drilling leases and the price of gas will plummet.

you are aware crude has nothing to do with electricity??

 

[Rustic]

Let's see. For every yard of wood grown, they plant two yards of trees or care for 10 yards of trees.

We're Presuming Everyone Has The Land
The 60yrs It Takes To Grow A Tree
And No One Messes With It

There's 320 Million Of Us Living Off The Grid

And 20 million are taking more than their fair share of it and giving zero back in return.

The individual is better off without the village

 

[progressive hunter]

if fossils ran out then there is no competition, better to get the kinks out now instead of waiting til after the last minute

We have centuries of fossil fuels, and finding more huge reserves all the time, and that is just in the U.S. It is so plentiful it can be considered somewhat like a renewable resource.

A lot more people are living off the grid than people realize, and not for energy reasons.

its not a matter of how much is there, but what it takes to get it ,, 75 yrs ago crude was laying on the surface and we could just scoop it up, today we have to create mini earthquakes to get it,

think about the corn gas problem where it takes 1.5 gals of fossil to make 1 gal of ethanol...same is starting to happen to crude, it

and coal production is leveling mountains and destroying entire forest and waterways

If it is so "hard to get" then why is world supply at an all time high with low prices to reflect that? Why is the U.S. now a NET EXPORTER OF OIL? Why are we not extracting at many locations we know? Because we are getting oil, and natural gas EASILY, and CHEAPLY, and you just CAN'T STAND THAT. LOL!

Drill baby drill! Low energy prices help the poor, and middle class the most. What about that fact Libs? Don't you want to help the poor, and their CHILDREN?

you are aware crude has nothing to do with electricity??

 

[Daryl Hunt]

as far as structure thats already been calculated in and houses in the north are just fine,,
but I agree in state wide in cali might be over reach where as state wide in new mexico,arizona or texas would only make sense

youd be a moron to live in say phoenix and not have them

but structure is the last concern since the add up to less than 5lbs per sq ft

You also have to take into account the additional penetrations needed for the electrical connections, and as these locations up north see more precipitation than south it adds to the complexity of the roof above and beyond the loading.

My point is with the reduced efficiencies found in more northern latitudes, is mandating it state-wide just virtue signaling?

So instead of 90 percent you only get 75%. That's better than nothing. Around here, we have a ton of Solar. Solar even puts out power during rain storms but it might be only 60%. But 60% is better than nothing. With the new Solar Panels, during a real sunny day right at Noon, it's nothing to get a 95% rating. Add batteries to that for the evenings and you have your lights, AC, and more 24/7 with a surplus. So you only get 70% where you are at with the new systems. That's better than nothing. And it's cost affective pretty quick if it's already built into the cost of building the house. All the new Commercial Buildings being built for the last 2 years all have Solar built into them. Your point doesn't have a point other than just throwing BS into the Ball game.

That reduction could be enough to extend the payoff period of the panels past their usable life. and 60% during the rain? Do you have backup for that?

It's more of the same, government forcing a one size fits all cost to people regardless of the desire to do it.

On the average, 8 hours a day, the sun don't shine. Even in a rain storm or overcast, the sun shines and you still get 60% solar power. On a sunny day, using the new solar panels, you can get up to 95% output. Now, couple that with lithium batteries or even old style Deep Cells and you have power for that 8 hours you don't have any power coming from your panels. Again, when you do the planning for construction and you build this in, the cost is much lower than if you add it later. We don't have any mandate here that requires new Commercial Builds to install solar power but they are doing it anyway because it's just plain the smart thing to do. So it doesn't matter if the Government says you have to do it or not, it's the smart thing to do. You can play the spoiled little kid if you want but the rest of us will do the smart thing.

Lol
Without fossil fuels the northern plains are a wasteland... uninhabitable.

We have barely found the tip of the iceberg up here on the available fossil fuel energies.
That’s just the way it is, we actually have four seasons of here a lot of the country does not

Without fossil fuels the north western would be uninhabited? Are you trying to cheer me up?

No, the Climate change isn't all Man Made. But we contribute to it. We have a choice. We can work to lessen the affects of it and it will pass faster to better times or we can work to worsen it and extend it's bad times and maybe wreck things forever as we know it. Only man has that choice. Fossil Fuel Use is part of that choice.

Things like adding scrubbers to the coal burning factories that makes them as clean as Natural Gas. Cutting back on petro use in cars, trucks, trains and planes by using alternative methods that are more green friendly without giving them up. If we had allowed things to keep going like they were, the Earth would be unlivable today. You are too young to remember when Chesapeake Bay had a thick film on it with dead fish floating on top of the film. And that is our Nations Capital. You are too young to remember the warning sirens for many industrial cities to get your small children inside because the air was so bad it could kill your children. You are too young to remember the Black Snow. Welcome to the 1950s and 1960s. And we did all this in 60 short years starting when the Industrial Revolution began in the late 1890s. Yes, the Industrial Revolution is listed as sooner but it wasn't until the 1890s that it hit it's real stride. Remember this, England hit it's industrial Revolution in the late 1790s. They ended the European Mini Ice Age with it. You know, the one that stopped the Vikings Cold (get the pun there?).

We have a choice to hurt or help.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Let's see. For every yard of wood grown, they plant two yards of trees or care for 10 yards of trees.

We're Presuming Everyone Has The Land
The 60yrs It Takes To Grow A Tree
And No One Messes With It

There's 320 Million Of Us Living Off The Grid

And 20 million are taking more than their fair share of it and giving zero back in return.

The individual is better off without the village

Then go out and bury all your "Village" made products and gear in a very deep hole and live without them. Want to bet you won't make it.