Renewable Energy Will Be Consistently Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels By 2020

[Rustic]

You also have to take into account the additional penetrations needed for the electrical connections, and as these locations up north see more precipitation than south it adds to the complexity of the roof above and beyond the loading.

My point is with the reduced efficiencies found in more northern latitudes, is mandating it state-wide just virtue signaling?

So instead of 90 percent you only get 75%. That's better than nothing. Around here, we have a ton of Solar. Solar even puts out power during rain storms but it might be only 60%. But 60% is better than nothing. With the new Solar Panels, during a real sunny day right at Noon, it's nothing to get a 95% rating. Add batteries to that for the evenings and you have your lights, AC, and more 24/7 with a surplus. So you only get 70% where you are at with the new systems. That's better than nothing. And it's cost affective pretty quick if it's already built into the cost of building the house. All the new Commercial Buildings being built for the last 2 years all have Solar built into them. Your point doesn't have a point other than just throwing BS into the Ball game.

That reduction could be enough to extend the payoff period of the panels past their usable life. and 60% during the rain? Do you have backup for that?

It's more of the same, government forcing a one size fits all cost to people regardless of the desire to do it.

On the average, 8 hours a day, the sun don't shine. Even in a rain storm or overcast, the sun shines and you still get 60% solar power. On a sunny day, using the new solar panels, you can get up to 95% output. Now, couple that with lithium batteries or even old style Deep Cells and you have power for that 8 hours you don't have any power coming from your panels. Again, when you do the planning for construction and you build this in, the cost is much lower than if you add it later. We don't have any mandate here that requires new Commercial Builds to install solar power but they are doing it anyway because it's just plain the smart thing to do. So it doesn't matter if the Government says you have to do it or not, it's the smart thing to do. You can play the spoiled little kid if you want but the rest of us will do the smart thing.

Lol
Without fossil fuels the northern plains are a wasteland... uninhabitable.

We have barely found the tip of the iceberg up here on the available fossil fuel energies.
That’s just the way it is, we actually have four seasons of here a lot of the country does not

Without fossil fuels the north western would be uninhabited? Are you trying to cheer me up?

No, the Climate change isn't all Man Made. But we contribute to it. We have a choice. We can work to lessen the affects of it and it will pass faster to better times or we can work to worsen it and extend it's bad times and maybe wreck things forever as we know it. Only man has that choice. Fossil Fuel Use is part of that choice.

Things like adding scrubbers to the coal burning factories that makes them as clean as Natural Gas. Cutting back on petro use in cars, trucks, trains and planes by using alternative methods that are more green friendly without giving them up. If we had allowed things to keep going like they were, the Earth would be unlivable today. You are too young to remember when Chesapeake Bay had a thick film on it with dead fish floating on top of the film. And that is our Nations Capital. You are too young to remember the warning sirens for many industrial cities to get your small children inside because the air was so bad it could kill your children. You are too young to remember the Black Snow. Welcome to the 1950s and 1960s. And we did all this in 60 short years starting when the Industrial Revolution began in the late 1890s. Yes, the Industrial Revolution is listed as sooner but it wasn't until the 1890s that it hit it's real stride. Remember this, England hit it's industrial Revolution in the late 1790s. They ended the European Mini Ice Age with it. You know, the one that stopped the Vikings Cold (get the pun there?).

We have a choice to hurt or help.

Lol
That’s why I say it depends on where you’re at, an all of the above policy is best.

 

[DOTR]

Tesla Model 3 = #1 Best Selling Car In The US (In Revenue)

Tesla Model 3 = #1 Best Selling Car In The US (In Revenue) | CleanTechnica

Nope. "Although Tesla did not exceed other gasoline cars in terms of unit sales, it was by far the best selling electric vehicle, taking nearly 50% market share of all electric vehicles"

By the way Teslas run on fossil fuels, mostly coal, delivered through wires.

 

[Rustic]

Let's see. For every yard of wood grown, they plant two yards of trees or care for 10 yards of trees.

We're Presuming Everyone Has The Land
The 60yrs It Takes To Grow A Tree
And No One Messes With It

There's 320 Million Of Us Living Off The Grid

And 20 million are taking more than their fair share of it and giving zero back in return.

The individual is better off without the village

Then go out and bury all your "Village" made products and gear in a very deep hole and live without them. Want to bet you won't make it.

Lol
The entrepreneur makes the stuff for the village...

 

[Daryl Hunt]

as far as structure thats already been calculated in and houses in the north are just fine,,
but I agree in state wide in cali might be over reach where as state wide in new mexico,arizona or texas would only make sense

youd be a moron to live in say phoenix and not have them

but structure is the last concern since the add up to less than 5lbs per sq ft

You also have to take into account the additional penetrations needed for the electrical connections, and as these locations up north see more precipitation than south it adds to the complexity of the roof above and beyond the loading.

My point is with the reduced efficiencies found in more northern latitudes, is mandating it state-wide just virtue signaling?

So instead of 90 percent you only get 75%. That's better than nothing. Around here, we have a ton of Solar. Solar even puts out power during rain storms but it might be only 60%. But 60% is better than nothing. With the new Solar Panels, during a real sunny day right at Noon, it's nothing to get a 95% rating. Add batteries to that for the evenings and you have your lights, AC, and more 24/7 with a surplus. So you only get 70% where you are at with the new systems. That's better than nothing. And it's cost affective pretty quick if it's already built into the cost of building the house. All the new Commercial Buildings being built for the last 2 years all have Solar built into them. Your point doesn't have a point other than just throwing BS into the Ball game.

That reduction could be enough to extend the payoff period of the panels past their usable life. and 60% during the rain? Do you have backup for that?

It's more of the same, government forcing a one size fits all cost to people regardless of the desire to do it.

On the average, 8 hours a day, the sun don't shine. Even in a rain storm or overcast, the sun shines and you still get 60% solar power. On a sunny day, using the new solar panels, you can get up to 95% output. Now, couple that with lithium batteries or even old style Deep Cells and you have power for that 8 hours you don't have any power coming from your panels. Again, when you do the planning for construction and you build this in, the cost is much lower than if you add it later. We don't have any mandate here that requires new Commercial Builds to install solar power but they are doing it anyway because it's just plain the smart thing to do. So it doesn't matter if the Government says you have to do it or not, it's the smart thing to do. You can play the spoiled little kid if you want but the rest of us will do the smart thing.

I see mostly 10-25% on a cloudy day, not 60%. Where did you get your number from?

Solar Panels Do Work On Cloudy Days | CleanTechnica

In the northeast the sun rises at 7 AM and sets at 4 PM in the winter. Is that 8 hours of no sun?

Why do you have to use crap numbers to justify your position?

Why do you have to use government to force me to do the "smart thing?"

I use average numbers. You can find exceptions on everything there is if you look hard enough. You can justify any poor behavior that way. So you do it. Fine by me.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

as far as structure thats already been calculated in and houses in the north are just fine,,
but I agree in state wide in cali might be over reach where as state wide in new mexico,arizona or texas would only make sense

youd be a moron to live in say phoenix and not have them

but structure is the last concern since the add up to less than 5lbs per sq ft

You also have to take into account the additional penetrations needed for the electrical connections, and as these locations up north see more precipitation than south it adds to the complexity of the roof above and beyond the loading.

My point is with the reduced efficiencies found in more northern latitudes, is mandating it state-wide just virtue signaling?

So instead of 90 percent you only get 75%. That's better than nothing. Around here, we have a ton of Solar. Solar even puts out power during rain storms but it might be only 60%. But 60% is better than nothing. With the new Solar Panels, during a real sunny day right at Noon, it's nothing to get a 95% rating. Add batteries to that for the evenings and you have your lights, AC, and more 24/7 with a surplus. So you only get 70% where you are at with the new systems. That's better than nothing. And it's cost affective pretty quick if it's already built into the cost of building the house. All the new Commercial Buildings being built for the last 2 years all have Solar built into them. Your point doesn't have a point other than just throwing BS into the Ball game.

That reduction could be enough to extend the payoff period of the panels past their usable life. and 60% during the rain? Do you have backup for that?

It's more of the same, government forcing a one size fits all cost to people regardless of the desire to do it.

what we have now is one size fits all with electric,,,as well as toilets

did you complain then??

I want an electric connection to my house. it doesn't have to be forced on me.

and may places are forcing the bullshit low flow toilets that sometimes require 2-3 flushes to get rid of the waste.

The better option is the dual mode toilets, but some places even the 2nd larger flush mode is too limited.

Eat smaller barritos

 

[DOTR]

it means end of states gas-stations : KSA, "Russia", all Gulf states , etc. how our world without states gas-stations will be look like?

Renewable Energy Will Be Consistently Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels By 2020,
The organisation – which has more than 150 member countries – says the cost of generating power from onshore wind has fallen by around 23% since 2010 while the cost of solar photovoltaic (PV) electricity has fallen by 73% in that time. With further price falls expected for these and other green energy options, IRENA says all renewable energy technologies should be competitive on price with fossil fuels by 2020.Globally, onshore wind schemes are now costing an average of $0.06 per kilowatt hour (kWh), although some schemes are coming in at $0.04 per KwH, while the cost of solar PV is down to $0.10 per KwH. In comparison, the cost of electricity generation based on fossil fuels typically falls in a range of $0.05 to $0.17 per KwH.

Renewable Energy Will Be Consistently Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels By 2020, Report Claims

IRENA is a sales organization. Whatever. Put this in your pipe and smoke it.

Rising use of plastics to drive oil demand to 2050: IEA | Reuters

 

[Rustic]

You also have to take into account the additional penetrations needed for the electrical connections, and as these locations up north see more precipitation than south it adds to the complexity of the roof above and beyond the loading.

My point is with the reduced efficiencies found in more northern latitudes, is mandating it state-wide just virtue signaling?

So instead of 90 percent you only get 75%. That's better than nothing. Around here, we have a ton of Solar. Solar even puts out power during rain storms but it might be only 60%. But 60% is better than nothing. With the new Solar Panels, during a real sunny day right at Noon, it's nothing to get a 95% rating. Add batteries to that for the evenings and you have your lights, AC, and more 24/7 with a surplus. So you only get 70% where you are at with the new systems. That's better than nothing. And it's cost affective pretty quick if it's already built into the cost of building the house. All the new Commercial Buildings being built for the last 2 years all have Solar built into them. Your point doesn't have a point other than just throwing BS into the Ball game.

That reduction could be enough to extend the payoff period of the panels past their usable life. and 60% during the rain? Do you have backup for that?

It's more of the same, government forcing a one size fits all cost to people regardless of the desire to do it.

On the average, 8 hours a day, the sun don't shine. Even in a rain storm or overcast, the sun shines and you still get 60% solar power. On a sunny day, using the new solar panels, you can get up to 95% output. Now, couple that with lithium batteries or even old style Deep Cells and you have power for that 8 hours you don't have any power coming from your panels. Again, when you do the planning for construction and you build this in, the cost is much lower than if you add it later. We don't have any mandate here that requires new Commercial Builds to install solar power but they are doing it anyway because it's just plain the smart thing to do. So it doesn't matter if the Government says you have to do it or not, it's the smart thing to do. You can play the spoiled little kid if you want but the rest of us will do the smart thing.

I see mostly 10-25% on a cloudy day, not 60%. Where did you get your number from?

Solar Panels Do Work On Cloudy Days | CleanTechnica

In the northeast the sun rises at 7 AM and sets at 4 PM in the winter. Is that 8 hours of no sun?

Why do you have to use crap numbers to justify your position?

Why do you have to use government to force me to do the "smart thing?"

I use average numbers. You can find exceptions on everything there is if you look hard enough. You can justify any poor behavior that way. So you do it. Fine by me.

Wind turbines are a joke up here, the They lose efficiency by the day.
Solar is much further along, but still hardly viable certainly not affordable and reliable.
That’s why we need an all of the above policy, We have unlimited fossil fuels up here in the northern plains.

 

[progressive hunter]

So instead of 90 percent you only get 75%. That's better than nothing. Around here, we have a ton of Solar. Solar even puts out power during rain storms but it might be only 60%. But 60% is better than nothing. With the new Solar Panels, during a real sunny day right at Noon, it's nothing to get a 95% rating. Add batteries to that for the evenings and you have your lights, AC, and more 24/7 with a surplus. So you only get 70% where you are at with the new systems. That's better than nothing. And it's cost affective pretty quick if it's already built into the cost of building the house. All the new Commercial Buildings being built for the last 2 years all have Solar built into them. Your point doesn't have a point other than just throwing BS into the Ball game.

That reduction could be enough to extend the payoff period of the panels past their usable life. and 60% during the rain? Do you have backup for that?

It's more of the same, government forcing a one size fits all cost to people regardless of the desire to do it.

On the average, 8 hours a day, the sun don't shine. Even in a rain storm or overcast, the sun shines and you still get 60% solar power. On a sunny day, using the new solar panels, you can get up to 95% output. Now, couple that with lithium batteries or even old style Deep Cells and you have power for that 8 hours you don't have any power coming from your panels. Again, when you do the planning for construction and you build this in, the cost is much lower than if you add it later. We don't have any mandate here that requires new Commercial Builds to install solar power but they are doing it anyway because it's just plain the smart thing to do. So it doesn't matter if the Government says you have to do it or not, it's the smart thing to do. You can play the spoiled little kid if you want but the rest of us will do the smart thing.

I see mostly 10-25% on a cloudy day, not 60%. Where did you get your number from?

Solar Panels Do Work On Cloudy Days | CleanTechnica

In the northeast the sun rises at 7 AM and sets at 4 PM in the winter. Is that 8 hours of no sun?

Why do you have to use crap numbers to justify your position?

Why do you have to use government to force me to do the "smart thing?"

I use average numbers. You can find exceptions on everything there is if you look hard enough. You can justify any poor behavior that way. So you do it. Fine by me.

Wind turbines are a joke up here, the They lose efficiency by the day.
Solar is much further along, but still hardly viable certainly not affordable and reliable.
That’s why we need an all of the above policy, We have unlimited fossil fuels up here in the northern plains.

is not unlimited, and at some point it will cost more to get it than its worth

 

[DOTR]

The article says alternate energy will be CHEAPER than fossil fuels by 2020.

It does not say alternate energy will REPLACE fossil fuels by 2020.

Big difference.

It will take a while, but we will hopefully get there eventually.

yes, but it ´ll be political - economic shock or even death for states - gas stations like Muscovy, KSA , etc.

Nothing will make life better for a nations citizens than economic death. That should be a fucking hoot.

The hatred is rally for America. America is the number one oil producing country in the world now to the chagrin of Democrats. It is America they are thinking of when they rub their hands together at the thought of taking down petroleum producing countries.

 

[Rustic]

That reduction could be enough to extend the payoff period of the panels past their usable life. and 60% during the rain? Do you have backup for that?

It's more of the same, government forcing a one size fits all cost to people regardless of the desire to do it.

On the average, 8 hours a day, the sun don't shine. Even in a rain storm or overcast, the sun shines and you still get 60% solar power. On a sunny day, using the new solar panels, you can get up to 95% output. Now, couple that with lithium batteries or even old style Deep Cells and you have power for that 8 hours you don't have any power coming from your panels. Again, when you do the planning for construction and you build this in, the cost is much lower than if you add it later. We don't have any mandate here that requires new Commercial Builds to install solar power but they are doing it anyway because it's just plain the smart thing to do. So it doesn't matter if the Government says you have to do it or not, it's the smart thing to do. You can play the spoiled little kid if you want but the rest of us will do the smart thing.

I see mostly 10-25% on a cloudy day, not 60%. Where did you get your number from?

Solar Panels Do Work On Cloudy Days | CleanTechnica

In the northeast the sun rises at 7 AM and sets at 4 PM in the winter. Is that 8 hours of no sun?

Why do you have to use crap numbers to justify your position?

Why do you have to use government to force me to do the "smart thing?"

I use average numbers. You can find exceptions on everything there is if you look hard enough. You can justify any poor behavior that way. So you do it. Fine by me.

Wind turbines are a joke up here, the They lose efficiency by the day.
Solar is much further along, but still hardly viable certainly not affordable and reliable.
That’s why we need an all of the above policy, We have unlimited fossil fuels up here in the northern plains.

is not unlimited, and at some point it will cost more to get it than its worth

Actually with technology it’s getting cheaper, they are drilling just north of me were they thought it was impossible just a few years ago.

 

[Pilot1]

if fossils ran out then there is no competition, better to get the kinks out now instead of waiting til after the last minute

We have centuries of fossil fuels, and finding more huge reserves all the time, and that is just in the U.S. It is so plentiful it can be considered somewhat like a renewable resource.

A lot more people are living off the grid than people realize, and not for energy reasons.

its not a matter of how much is there, but what it takes to get it ,, 75 yrs ago crude was laying on the surface and we could just scoop it up, today we have to create mini earthquakes to get it,

think about the corn gas problem where it takes 1.5 gals of fossil to make 1 gal of ethanol...same is starting to happen to crude, it

and coal production is leveling mountains and destroying entire forest and waterways

If it is so "hard to get" then why is world supply at an all time high with low prices to reflect that? Why is the U.S. now a NET EXPORTER OF OIL? Why are we not extracting at many locations we know? Because we are getting oil, and natural gas EASILY, and CHEAPLY, and you just CAN'T STAND THAT. LOL!

Drill baby drill! Low energy prices help the poor, and middle class the most. What about that fact Libs? Don't you want to help the poor, and their CHILDREN?

you are aware crude has nothing to do with electricity??

You are aware that all energy supply, and pricing affects ALL OTHER ENERGY and PRICING. Right? So crude has a LOT OF EFFECT on the cost to generate electricity.

 

[Redfish]

You also have to take into account the additional penetrations needed for the electrical connections, and as these locations up north see more precipitation than south it adds to the complexity of the roof above and beyond the loading.

My point is with the reduced efficiencies found in more northern latitudes, is mandating it state-wide just virtue signaling?

So instead of 90 percent you only get 75%. That's better than nothing. Around here, we have a ton of Solar. Solar even puts out power during rain storms but it might be only 60%. But 60% is better than nothing. With the new Solar Panels, during a real sunny day right at Noon, it's nothing to get a 95% rating. Add batteries to that for the evenings and you have your lights, AC, and more 24/7 with a surplus. So you only get 70% where you are at with the new systems. That's better than nothing. And it's cost affective pretty quick if it's already built into the cost of building the house. All the new Commercial Buildings being built for the last 2 years all have Solar built into them. Your point doesn't have a point other than just throwing BS into the Ball game.

That reduction could be enough to extend the payoff period of the panels past their usable life. and 60% during the rain? Do you have backup for that?

It's more of the same, government forcing a one size fits all cost to people regardless of the desire to do it.

On the average, 8 hours a day, the sun don't shine. Even in a rain storm or overcast, the sun shines and you still get 60% solar power. On a sunny day, using the new solar panels, you can get up to 95% output. Now, couple that with lithium batteries or even old style Deep Cells and you have power for that 8 hours you don't have any power coming from your panels. Again, when you do the planning for construction and you build this in, the cost is much lower than if you add it later. We don't have any mandate here that requires new Commercial Builds to install solar power but they are doing it anyway because it's just plain the smart thing to do. So it doesn't matter if the Government says you have to do it or not, it's the smart thing to do. You can play the spoiled little kid if you want but the rest of us will do the smart thing.

Lol
Without fossil fuels the northern plains are a wasteland... uninhabitable.

We have barely found the tip of the iceberg up here on the available fossil fuel energies.
That’s just the way it is, we actually have four seasons of here a lot of the country does not

Without fossil fuels the north western would be uninhabited? Are you trying to cheer me up?

No, the Climate change isn't all Man Made. But we contribute to it. We have a choice. We can work to lessen the affects of it and it will pass faster to better times or we can work to worsen it and extend it's bad times and maybe wreck things forever as we know it. Only man has that choice. Fossil Fuel Use is part of that choice.

Things like adding scrubbers to the coal burning factories that makes them as clean as Natural Gas. Cutting back on petro use in cars, trucks, trains and planes by using alternative methods that are more green friendly without giving them up. If we had allowed things to keep going like they were, the Earth would be unlivable today. You are too young to remember when Chesapeake Bay had a thick film on it with dead fish floating on top of the film. And that is our Nations Capital. You are too young to remember the warning sirens for many industrial cities to get your small children inside because the air was so bad it could kill your children. You are too young to remember the Black Snow. Welcome to the 1950s and 1960s. And we did all this in 60 short years starting when the Industrial Revolution began in the late 1890s. Yes, the Industrial Revolution is listed as sooner but it wasn't until the 1890s that it hit it's real stride. Remember this, England hit it's industrial Revolution in the late 1790s. They ended the European Mini Ice Age with it. You know, the one that stopped the Vikings Cold (get the pun there?).

We have a choice to hurt or help.

humans contribute to pollution, not climate change. There is no proven link between man made pollution and climate. The climate of planet earth is controlled by the sun, the earth's tilt on its axis, and ocean currents, it has been so for hundreds of millions of years and will be so hundreds of millions of years after the last human is gone. we are a pimple on a gnats ass on an elephant when it comes to earth's climate. Even our pollution will be gone soon after humans are gone. You give us way too much credit.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

So instead of 90 percent you only get 75%. That's better than nothing. Around here, we have a ton of Solar. Solar even puts out power during rain storms but it might be only 60%. But 60% is better than nothing. With the new Solar Panels, during a real sunny day right at Noon, it's nothing to get a 95% rating. Add batteries to that for the evenings and you have your lights, AC, and more 24/7 with a surplus. So you only get 70% where you are at with the new systems. That's better than nothing. And it's cost affective pretty quick if it's already built into the cost of building the house. All the new Commercial Buildings being built for the last 2 years all have Solar built into them. Your point doesn't have a point other than just throwing BS into the Ball game.

That reduction could be enough to extend the payoff period of the panels past their usable life. and 60% during the rain? Do you have backup for that?

It's more of the same, government forcing a one size fits all cost to people regardless of the desire to do it.

On the average, 8 hours a day, the sun don't shine. Even in a rain storm or overcast, the sun shines and you still get 60% solar power. On a sunny day, using the new solar panels, you can get up to 95% output. Now, couple that with lithium batteries or even old style Deep Cells and you have power for that 8 hours you don't have any power coming from your panels. Again, when you do the planning for construction and you build this in, the cost is much lower than if you add it later. We don't have any mandate here that requires new Commercial Builds to install solar power but they are doing it anyway because it's just plain the smart thing to do. So it doesn't matter if the Government says you have to do it or not, it's the smart thing to do. You can play the spoiled little kid if you want but the rest of us will do the smart thing.

Lol
Without fossil fuels the northern plains are a wasteland... uninhabitable.

We have barely found the tip of the iceberg up here on the available fossil fuel energies.
That’s just the way it is, we actually have four seasons of here a lot of the country does not

Without fossil fuels the north western would be uninhabited? Are you trying to cheer me up?

No, the Climate change isn't all Man Made. But we contribute to it. We have a choice. We can work to lessen the affects of it and it will pass faster to better times or we can work to worsen it and extend it's bad times and maybe wreck things forever as we know it. Only man has that choice. Fossil Fuel Use is part of that choice.

Things like adding scrubbers to the coal burning factories that makes them as clean as Natural Gas. Cutting back on petro use in cars, trucks, trains and planes by using alternative methods that are more green friendly without giving them up. If we had allowed things to keep going like they were, the Earth would be unlivable today. You are too young to remember when Chesapeake Bay had a thick film on it with dead fish floating on top of the film. And that is our Nations Capital. You are too young to remember the warning sirens for many industrial cities to get your small children inside because the air was so bad it could kill your children. You are too young to remember the Black Snow. Welcome to the 1950s and 1960s. And we did all this in 60 short years starting when the Industrial Revolution began in the late 1890s. Yes, the Industrial Revolution is listed as sooner but it wasn't until the 1890s that it hit it's real stride. Remember this, England hit it's industrial Revolution in the late 1790s. They ended the European Mini Ice Age with it. You know, the one that stopped the Vikings Cold (get the pun there?).

We have a choice to hurt or help.

Lol
That’s why I say it depends on where you’re at, an all of the above policy is best.

We have a different policy here than say Maryland. Our polcies are closer to where you live because our conditions are closer to where you live. But our population is much higher and our industrial base is much higher therefore we can't be the same as where you are. To give you an idea, we have more people in one Metro Area than you have in your entire state. And we are considered tiny for the United States. But we also have the western slope that mirrors most of what you see where you are at including natural resources. We are so diverse that we have to have two different polices for the same state to make it work. I live on the Lucky side of the state where life is just a bit better in some ways and worse in others. I think it averages out. They don't tell me when I need to do something, where I need to do, where I can't go, etc.. They don't tell me that I can't carry my sidearm down the street as long as I am not menacing with it. We are pretty free around here and we like it. Meanwhile, the Denver Metro Area has different laws and standards because it needs them. And I can see why. For instance, in air quality, they had no choice but to clean that smog up fast. The Smog got so bad that it killed small children until they started going after industry and cars and trucks. Today, you can actually see across the city from the Mountains. Meanwhile, we don't have the mandatory inspections they have there on our vehicles because we don't need the air cleaned up. We exceed the standards without the inspections. Things like this is why you and I are at odds. You seem to think that everywhere should adhere to where you live. But I think the rules have to change with each and every local to make each and every local work.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

So instead of 90 percent you only get 75%. That's better than nothing. Around here, we have a ton of Solar. Solar even puts out power during rain storms but it might be only 60%. But 60% is better than nothing. With the new Solar Panels, during a real sunny day right at Noon, it's nothing to get a 95% rating. Add batteries to that for the evenings and you have your lights, AC, and more 24/7 with a surplus. So you only get 70% where you are at with the new systems. That's better than nothing. And it's cost affective pretty quick if it's already built into the cost of building the house. All the new Commercial Buildings being built for the last 2 years all have Solar built into them. Your point doesn't have a point other than just throwing BS into the Ball game.

That reduction could be enough to extend the payoff period of the panels past their usable life. and 60% during the rain? Do you have backup for that?

It's more of the same, government forcing a one size fits all cost to people regardless of the desire to do it.

On the average, 8 hours a day, the sun don't shine. Even in a rain storm or overcast, the sun shines and you still get 60% solar power. On a sunny day, using the new solar panels, you can get up to 95% output. Now, couple that with lithium batteries or even old style Deep Cells and you have power for that 8 hours you don't have any power coming from your panels. Again, when you do the planning for construction and you build this in, the cost is much lower than if you add it later. We don't have any mandate here that requires new Commercial Builds to install solar power but they are doing it anyway because it's just plain the smart thing to do. So it doesn't matter if the Government says you have to do it or not, it's the smart thing to do. You can play the spoiled little kid if you want but the rest of us will do the smart thing.

Lol
Without fossil fuels the northern plains are a wasteland... uninhabitable.

We have barely found the tip of the iceberg up here on the available fossil fuel energies.
That’s just the way it is, we actually have four seasons of here a lot of the country does not

Without fossil fuels the north western would be uninhabited? Are you trying to cheer me up?

No, the Climate change isn't all Man Made. But we contribute to it. We have a choice. We can work to lessen the affects of it and it will pass faster to better times or we can work to worsen it and extend it's bad times and maybe wreck things forever as we know it. Only man has that choice. Fossil Fuel Use is part of that choice.

Things like adding scrubbers to the coal burning factories that makes them as clean as Natural Gas. Cutting back on petro use in cars, trucks, trains and planes by using alternative methods that are more green friendly without giving them up. If we had allowed things to keep going like they were, the Earth would be unlivable today. You are too young to remember when Chesapeake Bay had a thick film on it with dead fish floating on top of the film. And that is our Nations Capital. You are too young to remember the warning sirens for many industrial cities to get your small children inside because the air was so bad it could kill your children. You are too young to remember the Black Snow. Welcome to the 1950s and 1960s. And we did all this in 60 short years starting when the Industrial Revolution began in the late 1890s. Yes, the Industrial Revolution is listed as sooner but it wasn't until the 1890s that it hit it's real stride. Remember this, England hit it's industrial Revolution in the late 1790s. They ended the European Mini Ice Age with it. You know, the one that stopped the Vikings Cold (get the pun there?).

We have a choice to hurt or help.

humans contribute to pollution, not climate change. There is no proven link between man made pollution and climate. The climate of planet earth is controlled by the sun, the earth's tilt on its axis, and ocean currents, it has been so for hundreds of millions of years and will be so hundreds of millions of years after the last human is gone. we are a pimple on a gnats ass on an elephant when it comes to earth's climate. Even our pollution will be gone soon after humans are gone. You give us way too much credit.

My, My, it must be wonderful to live in your little fantasy world. Wish we all could live there.

 

[progressive hunter]

if fossils ran out then there is no competition, better to get the kinks out now instead of waiting til after the last minute

We have centuries of fossil fuels, and finding more huge reserves all the time, and that is just in the U.S. It is so plentiful it can be considered somewhat like a renewable resource.

A lot more people are living off the grid than people realize, and not for energy reasons.

its not a matter of how much is there, but what it takes to get it ,, 75 yrs ago crude was laying on the surface and we could just scoop it up, today we have to create mini earthquakes to get it,

think about the corn gas problem where it takes 1.5 gals of fossil to make 1 gal of ethanol...same is starting to happen to crude, it

and coal production is leveling mountains and destroying entire forest and waterways

If it is so "hard to get" then why is world supply at an all time high with low prices to reflect that? Why is the U.S. now a NET EXPORTER OF OIL? Why are we not extracting at many locations we know? Because we are getting oil, and natural gas EASILY, and CHEAPLY, and you just CAN'T STAND THAT. LOL!

Drill baby drill! Low energy prices help the poor, and middle class the most. What about that fact Libs? Don't you want to help the poor, and their CHILDREN?

you are aware crude has nothing to do with electricity??

You are aware that all energy supply, and pricing affects ALL OTHER ENERGY and PRICING. Right? So crude has a LOT OF EFFECT on the cost to generate electricity.

I would have to ask for your proof of that

 

[Redfish]

That reduction could be enough to extend the payoff period of the panels past their usable life. and 60% during the rain? Do you have backup for that?

It's more of the same, government forcing a one size fits all cost to people regardless of the desire to do it.

On the average, 8 hours a day, the sun don't shine. Even in a rain storm or overcast, the sun shines and you still get 60% solar power. On a sunny day, using the new solar panels, you can get up to 95% output. Now, couple that with lithium batteries or even old style Deep Cells and you have power for that 8 hours you don't have any power coming from your panels. Again, when you do the planning for construction and you build this in, the cost is much lower than if you add it later. We don't have any mandate here that requires new Commercial Builds to install solar power but they are doing it anyway because it's just plain the smart thing to do. So it doesn't matter if the Government says you have to do it or not, it's the smart thing to do. You can play the spoiled little kid if you want but the rest of us will do the smart thing.

Lol
Without fossil fuels the northern plains are a wasteland... uninhabitable.

We have barely found the tip of the iceberg up here on the available fossil fuel energies.
That’s just the way it is, we actually have four seasons of here a lot of the country does not

Without fossil fuels the north western would be uninhabited? Are you trying to cheer me up?

No, the Climate change isn't all Man Made. But we contribute to it. We have a choice. We can work to lessen the affects of it and it will pass faster to better times or we can work to worsen it and extend it's bad times and maybe wreck things forever as we know it. Only man has that choice. Fossil Fuel Use is part of that choice.

Things like adding scrubbers to the coal burning factories that makes them as clean as Natural Gas. Cutting back on petro use in cars, trucks, trains and planes by using alternative methods that are more green friendly without giving them up. If we had allowed things to keep going like they were, the Earth would be unlivable today. You are too young to remember when Chesapeake Bay had a thick film on it with dead fish floating on top of the film. And that is our Nations Capital. You are too young to remember the warning sirens for many industrial cities to get your small children inside because the air was so bad it could kill your children. You are too young to remember the Black Snow. Welcome to the 1950s and 1960s. And we did all this in 60 short years starting when the Industrial Revolution began in the late 1890s. Yes, the Industrial Revolution is listed as sooner but it wasn't until the 1890s that it hit it's real stride. Remember this, England hit it's industrial Revolution in the late 1790s. They ended the European Mini Ice Age with it. You know, the one that stopped the Vikings Cold (get the pun there?).

We have a choice to hurt or help.

humans contribute to pollution, not climate change. There is no proven link between man made pollution and climate. The climate of planet earth is controlled by the sun, the earth's tilt on its axis, and ocean currents, it has been so for hundreds of millions of years and will be so hundreds of millions of years after the last human is gone. we are a pimple on a gnats ass on an elephant when it comes to earth's climate. Even our pollution will be gone soon after humans are gone. You give us way too much credit.

My, My, it must be wonderful to live in your little fantasy world. Wish we all could live there.

Ok, prove that man made pollution is changing the climate, and then show us how that worked in previous warming and cooling cycles long before the first human walked on earth.

 

[Pilot1]

I would have to ask for your proof of that

Duckduckgo is your friend. It is basic economics, and how global commodity markets work. This is just a small sample of how two energy commodities affect each other. Natural gas is a major component of U.S. electricity generation.

Do Oil and Natural Gas Prices Rise And Fall Together?

ALL energy prices rise, and fall together. Coal, Oil, Natural Gas, etc

 

[Manonthestreet]

We have centuries of fossil fuels, and finding more huge reserves all the time, and that is just in the U.S. It is so plentiful it can be considered somewhat like a renewable resource.

A lot more people are living off the grid than people realize, and not for energy reasons.

its not a matter of how much is there, but what it takes to get it ,, 75 yrs ago crude was laying on the surface and we could just scoop it up, today we have to create mini earthquakes to get it,

think about the corn gas problem where it takes 1.5 gals of fossil to make 1 gal of ethanol...same is starting to happen to crude, it

and coal production is leveling mountains and destroying entire forest and waterways

If it is so "hard to get" then why is world supply at an all time high with low prices to reflect that? Why is the U.S. now a NET EXPORTER OF OIL? Why are we not extracting at many locations we know? Because we are getting oil, and natural gas EASILY, and CHEAPLY, and you just CAN'T STAND THAT. LOL!

Drill baby drill! Low energy prices help the poor, and middle class the most. What about that fact Libs? Don't you want to help the poor, and their CHILDREN?

you are aware crude has nothing to do with electricity??

You are aware that all energy supply, and pricing affects ALL OTHER ENERGY and PRICING. Right? So crude has a LOT OF EFFECT on the cost to generate electricity.

I would have to ask for your proof of that

Air is cleaner because of drilling producing Nat gas ....say thank you. Now go up to NE USA and shut off their liquid coal fuel oil ..as usual libs are biggest hypicrites

 

[progressive hunter]

We have centuries of fossil fuels, and finding more huge reserves all the time, and that is just in the U.S. It is so plentiful it can be considered somewhat like a renewable resource.

A lot more people are living off the grid than people realize, and not for energy reasons.

its not a matter of how much is there, but what it takes to get it ,, 75 yrs ago crude was laying on the surface and we could just scoop it up, today we have to create mini earthquakes to get it,

think about the corn gas problem where it takes 1.5 gals of fossil to make 1 gal of ethanol...same is starting to happen to crude, it

and coal production is leveling mountains and destroying entire forest and waterways

If it is so "hard to get" then why is world supply at an all time high with low prices to reflect that? Why is the U.S. now a NET EXPORTER OF OIL? Why are we not extracting at many locations we know? Because we are getting oil, and natural gas EASILY, and CHEAPLY, and you just CAN'T STAND THAT. LOL!

Drill baby drill! Low energy prices help the poor, and middle class the most. What about that fact Libs? Don't you want to help the poor, and their CHILDREN?

you are aware crude has nothing to do with electricity??

You are aware that all energy supply, and pricing affects ALL OTHER ENERGY and PRICING. Right? So crude has a LOT OF EFFECT on the cost to generate electricity.

I would have to ask for your proof of that

both the price of crude and coal are made up in a

So instead of 90 percent you only get 75%. That's better than nothing. Around here, we have a ton of Solar. Solar even puts out power during rain storms but it might be only 60%. But 60% is better than nothing. With the new Solar Panels, during a real sunny day right at Noon, it's nothing to get a 95% rating. Add batteries to that for the evenings and you have your lights, AC, and more 24/7 with a surplus. So you only get 70% where you are at with the new systems. That's better than nothing. And it's cost affective pretty quick if it's already built into the cost of building the house. All the new Commercial Buildings being built for the last 2 years all have Solar built into them. Your point doesn't have a point other than just throwing BS into the Ball game.

That reduction could be enough to extend the payoff period of the panels past their usable life. and 60% during the rain? Do you have backup for that?

It's more of the same, government forcing a one size fits all cost to people regardless of the desire to do it.

On the average, 8 hours a day, the sun don't shine. Even in a rain storm or overcast, the sun shines and you still get 60% solar power. On a sunny day, using the new solar panels, you can get up to 95% output. Now, couple that with lithium batteries or even old style Deep Cells and you have power for that 8 hours you don't have any power coming from your panels. Again, when you do the planning for construction and you build this in, the cost is much lower than if you add it later. We don't have any mandate here that requires new Commercial Builds to install solar power but they are doing it anyway because it's just plain the smart thing to do. So it doesn't matter if the Government says you have to do it or not, it's the smart thing to do. You can play the spoiled little kid if you want but the rest of us will do the smart thing.

Lol
Without fossil fuels the northern plains are a wasteland... uninhabitable.

We have barely found the tip of the iceberg up here on the available fossil fuel energies.
That’s just the way it is, we actually have four seasons of here a lot of the country does not

Without fossil fuels the north western would be uninhabited? Are you trying to cheer me up?

No, the Climate change isn't all Man Made. But we contribute to it. We have a choice. We can work to lessen the affects of it and it will pass faster to better times or we can work to worsen it and extend it's bad times and maybe wreck things forever as we know it. Only man has that choice. Fossil Fuel Use is part of that choice.

Things like adding scrubbers to the coal burning factories that makes them as clean as Natural Gas. Cutting back on petro use in cars, trucks, trains and planes by using alternative methods that are more green friendly without giving them up. If we had allowed things to keep going like they were, the Earth would be unlivable today. You are too young to remember when Chesapeake Bay had a thick film on it with dead fish floating on top of the film. And that is our Nations Capital. You are too young to remember the warning sirens for many industrial cities to get your small children inside because the air was so bad it could kill your children. You are too young to remember the Black Snow. Welcome to the 1950s and 1960s. And we did all this in 60 short years starting when the Industrial Revolution began in the late 1890s. Yes, the Industrial Revolution is listed as sooner but it wasn't until the 1890s that it hit it's real stride. Remember this, England hit it's industrial Revolution in the late 1790s. They ended the European Mini Ice Age with it. You know, the one that stopped the Vikings Cold (get the pun there?).

We have a choice to hurt or help.

humans contribute to pollution, not climate change. There is no proven link between man made pollution and climate. The climate of planet earth is controlled by the sun, the earth's tilt on its axis, and ocean currents, it has been so for hundreds of millions of years and will be so hundreds of millions of years after the last human is gone. we are a pimple on a gnats ass on an elephant when it comes to earth's climate. Even our pollution will be gone soon after humans are gone. You give us way too much credit.

dang fish I have to agree with you on this except for the millions of yrs old, there is more proof for a young earth than an old one

 

[Rustic]

That reduction could be enough to extend the payoff period of the panels past their usable life. and 60% during the rain? Do you have backup for that?

It's more of the same, government forcing a one size fits all cost to people regardless of the desire to do it.

On the average, 8 hours a day, the sun don't shine. Even in a rain storm or overcast, the sun shines and you still get 60% solar power. On a sunny day, using the new solar panels, you can get up to 95% output. Now, couple that with lithium batteries or even old style Deep Cells and you have power for that 8 hours you don't have any power coming from your panels. Again, when you do the planning for construction and you build this in, the cost is much lower than if you add it later. We don't have any mandate here that requires new Commercial Builds to install solar power but they are doing it anyway because it's just plain the smart thing to do. So it doesn't matter if the Government says you have to do it or not, it's the smart thing to do. You can play the spoiled little kid if you want but the rest of us will do the smart thing.

Lol
Without fossil fuels the northern plains are a wasteland... uninhabitable.

We have barely found the tip of the iceberg up here on the available fossil fuel energies.
That’s just the way it is, we actually have four seasons of here a lot of the country does not

Without fossil fuels the north western would be uninhabited? Are you trying to cheer me up?

No, the Climate change isn't all Man Made. But we contribute to it. We have a choice. We can work to lessen the affects of it and it will pass faster to better times or we can work to worsen it and extend it's bad times and maybe wreck things forever as we know it. Only man has that choice. Fossil Fuel Use is part of that choice.

Things like adding scrubbers to the coal burning factories that makes them as clean as Natural Gas. Cutting back on petro use in cars, trucks, trains and planes by using alternative methods that are more green friendly without giving them up. If we had allowed things to keep going like they were, the Earth would be unlivable today. You are too young to remember when Chesapeake Bay had a thick film on it with dead fish floating on top of the film. And that is our Nations Capital. You are too young to remember the warning sirens for many industrial cities to get your small children inside because the air was so bad it could kill your children. You are too young to remember the Black Snow. Welcome to the 1950s and 1960s. And we did all this in 60 short years starting when the Industrial Revolution began in the late 1890s. Yes, the Industrial Revolution is listed as sooner but it wasn't until the 1890s that it hit it's real stride. Remember this, England hit it's industrial Revolution in the late 1790s. They ended the European Mini Ice Age with it. You know, the one that stopped the Vikings Cold (get the pun there?).

We have a choice to hurt or help.

Lol
That’s why I say it depends on where you’re at, an all of the above policy is best.

We have a different policy here than say Maryland. Our polcies are closer to where you live because our conditions are closer to where you live. But our population is much higher and our industrial base is much higher therefore we can't be the same as where you are. To give you an idea, we have more people in one Metro Area than you have in your entire state. And we are considered tiny for the United States. But we also have the western slope that mirrors most of what you see where you are at including natural resources. We are so diverse that we have to have two different polices for the same state to make it work. I live on the Lucky side of the state where life is just a bit better in some ways and worse in others. I think it averages out. They don't tell me when I need to do something, where I need to do, where I can't go, etc.. They don't tell me that I can't carry my sidearm down the street as long as I am not menacing with it. We are pretty free around here and we like it. Meanwhile, the Denver Metro Area has different laws and standards because it needs them. And I can see why. For instance, in air quality, they had no choice but to clean that smog up fast. The Smog got so bad that it killed small children until they started going after industry and cars and trucks. Today, you can actually see across the city from the Mountains. Meanwhile, we don't have the mandatory inspections they have there on our vehicles because we don't need the air cleaned up. We exceed the standards without the inspections. Things like this is why you and I are at odds. You seem to think that everywhere should adhere to where you live. But I think the rules have to change with each and every local to make each and every local work.

Na, things that work in urban America do not work here in Rural America. That is just the way it is... live with it