Renewable Energy Will Be Consistently Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels By 2020

[Daryl Hunt]

How do you fly an airplane with solar energy?

Asking for a friend.

Does it go faster the closer you get to the sun?

Ask Icarus.

That's who Col Angus is asking for.

Do you even know who Icarus was?

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Regardless of the figures, your own article supports the claim that it's worth it even in an overcast area. You can keep chewing on this bone all you want but I choose not to play your silly assed games. Solar Power is here to stay and it works everywhere except 9 months of the year in the Artic. So go play in the street. I don't have time to play, little johnny.

There is no question that solar power is a great source of home energy. It just takes...what....15 years of no electric bills to make up for the cost of installing the system?

Efficiency is this issue.

You can make it in 5 or 6 years. Just pull it out yer keister....er...... uncomfortable place any figure you feel comfortable with.

 

[progressive hunter]

I would love to see how you came to that,,,were unicorns involved??

No unicorns. I have never seen one.

Have you seen one?

Have you seen a for real, live unicorn?


I used a few fairies and a Cornish pixie.



I estimated that it will take about 5 years to convert infrastructure once the cost of solar conversion is lower than the cost of continuing to use fossil. That's based on what I have seen in other industries. I have a friend who owns a business that converts government and private-sector offices and business facilities from florescent and halogen lighting to high-efficiency LEDs. The biggest bottle neck is inventory. The capacity of manufacturing and distributing ballasts and bulbs has apparently maxed out. Just that one type of conversion will take at least 5 years. Imagine phasing out all gas stations and fossil power plants while manufacturing components and building the replacements. 5 years seems optimistic.

Where I admittedly did a sloppy job on the numbers (as I confessed in the post above) is the increased efficiency of solar over the past 10 years as a projection going forward, mainly because it was nothing but estimates and guesses. The real point is that we will probably never have enough space and efficiency from solar to make it a viable replacement to fossil.

None of this even addresses the availability of immediate, potential energy from fossil fuels.

No other source of energy can be so easily stored and converted, except maybe hydrogen cells (which I think is probably the most compelling alternative right now). This is relevant mainly in the transportation sector. A gallon of gas has a huge amount of potential energy immediately available for quick consumption, and it only takes a short period of time to go from the ground to the gas tank. Solar could produce potential energy in the form of stored electricity, but, at least for the foreseeable future, storing electricity is much more costly and inefficient than storing gasoline, and it takes solar a whole lot more resources and time to compile the same amount potential energy as that available in a gallon of gasoline.

Right now, other than some limited applications of solar, wind/wave, geothermal, and nuclear, changing to alternative energy makes no sense compared to the availability and efficiency of fossil.

whos talking about replacing the old???
its about preparing for the future

and to add solar to a house and hook it up to a grid tie system takes 2-3 days at most, and to add it to a new house is even less time,
in my opinion in some areas like the southwest where there are 350 days of sun a yr to require it on new houses is a no brainer, more so since the savings go directly back to the owner. and that would also mean no peeks or rolling blackouts during high usage times

as for your comment about a gal of gas only holds as long as its available and it doesnt cost 2 gals to acquire 1 gal which is getting close

I dont want to call you a troglodyte but you are getting close

 

[Pete7469]

Do you even know who Icarus was?

He never "was" anymore than any other myth "was".

So no. No one does. No one ever could have.

 

[Votto]

How do you fly an airplane with solar energy?

Asking for a friend.

You put solar panels on the wings and pretend to fly.

Duh!

The Wright Brothers often did this as they smoked weed.

 

[Rustic]

That reduction could be enough to extend the payoff period of the panels past their usable life. and 60% during the rain? Do you have backup for that?

It's more of the same, government forcing a one size fits all cost to people regardless of the desire to do it.

On the average, 8 hours a day, the sun don't shine. Even in a rain storm or overcast, the sun shines and you still get 60% solar power. On a sunny day, using the new solar panels, you can get up to 95% output. Now, couple that with lithium batteries or even old style Deep Cells and you have power for that 8 hours you don't have any power coming from your panels. Again, when you do the planning for construction and you build this in, the cost is much lower than if you add it later. We don't have any mandate here that requires new Commercial Builds to install solar power but they are doing it anyway because it's just plain the smart thing to do. So it doesn't matter if the Government says you have to do it or not, it's the smart thing to do. You can play the spoiled little kid if you want but the rest of us will do the smart thing.

I see mostly 10-25% on a cloudy day, not 60%. Where did you get your number from?

Solar Panels Do Work On Cloudy Days | CleanTechnica

In the northeast the sun rises at 7 AM and sets at 4 PM in the winter. Is that 8 hours of no sun?

Why do you have to use crap numbers to justify your position?

Why do you have to use government to force me to do the "smart thing?"

I use average numbers. You can find exceptions on everything there is if you look hard enough. You can justify any poor behavior that way. So you do it. Fine by me.

Um, the difference between 10%-25% and your claimed 60% has nothing to do with "averaging". The site I referenced is a solar panel proponent site, and they only claim 10%-25%.

Where did you find the 60% value you gave as a response?

And what was your basis for "only 8 hours of no sunlight"?

Regardless of the figures, your own article supports the claim that it's worth it even in an overcast area. You can keep chewing on this bone all you want but I choose not to play your silly assed games. Solar Power is here to stay and it works everywhere except 9 months of the year in the Artic. So go play in the street. I don't have time to play, little johnny.

It depends on the area, in some areas solar is great other areas it sucks ass like in the northern plains

 

[karpenter]

And Here We Are
Still Talking Efficiency On The Level Of Single Homes And Businesses
Not Powering An Entire Industrial Society Of 320 Million
Let Alone China
No Matter How Many Wind/Solar Farms Anyone Builds

 

[progressive hunter]

And Here We Are
Still Talking Efficiency On The Level Of Single Homes And Businesses
Not Powering An Entire Industrial Society Of 320 Million
Let Alone China
No Matter How Many Wind/Solar Farms Anyone Builds

its called planning ahead

 

[Rustic]

An all of the above plan is best, don’t fix what’s not broken

 

[xyz]

 

[Daryl Hunt]

And Here We Are
Still Talking Efficiency On The Level Of Single Homes And Businesses
Not Powering An Entire Industrial Society Of 320 Million
Let Alone China
No Matter How Many Wind/Solar Farms Anyone Builds

Funny you should mention this. Any new construction of Commercial sites for the last 2 years have always included Solar arrays. Around here, we have sunshine almost year round. Even in the Winter time. This is why you will see Snow Skiers in burmuda shorts in Feb. The bulk of the snow and cloud cover happens at night so the day is usually clear skies or near clear skies. Leaving out Solar Arrays from new Commercial Construction is just plain stupid. Since you have to pay for a roof anyway, put solar arrays instead of roof tiles. It doesn't cost that much more even when you include the wiring and controls. You start getting your money back the day you throw the switch even if all you use them for is to power your Offices and outdoor lights.

But I have shown that Solar isn't the only thing that can be used. And Fusion will be here in the next 7 to 10 years which pretty well takes over for all other forms of electric generation except for Hydro, Solar and Wind. NG, Coal and Oil become forgotten.

Your original entry into this conversation was could we use Electric Power for Aircraft. The answer to that was, YES. They are already doing it. And by 2025, commuter flights will be electric power for seating of 10 to 50 people that are now using Jet Fuel. And that is a very safe prediction.

We are in a very exiting time right now. Energy Technology is making a huge leap. It's been a long time coming but like all other science evolutions, it happens in spurts. Welcome to the latest spurt.

 

[Redfish]

its not a matter of how much is there, but what it takes to get it ,, 75 yrs ago crude was laying on the surface and we could just scoop it up, today we have to create mini earthquakes to get it,

think about the corn gas problem where it takes 1.5 gals of fossil to make 1 gal of ethanol...same is starting to happen to crude, it

and coal production is leveling mountains and destroying entire forest and waterways

If it is so "hard to get" then why is world supply at an all time high with low prices to reflect that? Why is the U.S. now a NET EXPORTER OF OIL? Why are we not extracting at many locations we know? Because we are getting oil, and natural gas EASILY, and CHEAPLY, and you just CAN'T STAND THAT. LOL!

Drill baby drill! Low energy prices help the poor, and middle class the most. What about that fact Libs? Don't you want to help the poor, and their CHILDREN?

you are aware crude has nothing to do with electricity??

You are aware that all energy supply, and pricing affects ALL OTHER ENERGY and PRICING. Right? So crude has a LOT OF EFFECT on the cost to generate electricity.

I would have to ask for your proof of that

both the price of crude and coal are made up in a

That reduction could be enough to extend the payoff period of the panels past their usable life. and 60% during the rain? Do you have backup for that?

It's more of the same, government forcing a one size fits all cost to people regardless of the desire to do it.

On the average, 8 hours a day, the sun don't shine. Even in a rain storm or overcast, the sun shines and you still get 60% solar power. On a sunny day, using the new solar panels, you can get up to 95% output. Now, couple that with lithium batteries or even old style Deep Cells and you have power for that 8 hours you don't have any power coming from your panels. Again, when you do the planning for construction and you build this in, the cost is much lower than if you add it later. We don't have any mandate here that requires new Commercial Builds to install solar power but they are doing it anyway because it's just plain the smart thing to do. So it doesn't matter if the Government says you have to do it or not, it's the smart thing to do. You can play the spoiled little kid if you want but the rest of us will do the smart thing.

Lol
Without fossil fuels the northern plains are a wasteland... uninhabitable.

We have barely found the tip of the iceberg up here on the available fossil fuel energies.
That’s just the way it is, we actually have four seasons of here a lot of the country does not

Without fossil fuels the north western would be uninhabited? Are you trying to cheer me up?

No, the Climate change isn't all Man Made. But we contribute to it. We have a choice. We can work to lessen the affects of it and it will pass faster to better times or we can work to worsen it and extend it's bad times and maybe wreck things forever as we know it. Only man has that choice. Fossil Fuel Use is part of that choice.

Things like adding scrubbers to the coal burning factories that makes them as clean as Natural Gas. Cutting back on petro use in cars, trucks, trains and planes by using alternative methods that are more green friendly without giving them up. If we had allowed things to keep going like they were, the Earth would be unlivable today. You are too young to remember when Chesapeake Bay had a thick film on it with dead fish floating on top of the film. And that is our Nations Capital. You are too young to remember the warning sirens for many industrial cities to get your small children inside because the air was so bad it could kill your children. You are too young to remember the Black Snow. Welcome to the 1950s and 1960s. And we did all this in 60 short years starting when the Industrial Revolution began in the late 1890s. Yes, the Industrial Revolution is listed as sooner but it wasn't until the 1890s that it hit it's real stride. Remember this, England hit it's industrial Revolution in the late 1790s. They ended the European Mini Ice Age with it. You know, the one that stopped the Vikings Cold (get the pun there?).

We have a choice to hurt or help.

humans contribute to pollution, not climate change. There is no proven link between man made pollution and climate. The climate of planet earth is controlled by the sun, the earth's tilt on its axis, and ocean currents, it has been so for hundreds of millions of years and will be so hundreds of millions of years after the last human is gone. we are a pimple on a gnats ass on an elephant when it comes to earth's climate. Even our pollution will be gone soon after humans are gone. You give us way too much credit.

dang fish I have to agree with you on this except for the millions of yrs old, there is more proof for a young earth than an old one

I'm glad you agree, the actual age of planet earth is not really pertinent to this discussion, whether its 500 million years or 50 million years doesn't really matter, man never has, and never will, control its climate.

 

[Rustic]

And Here We Are
Still Talking Efficiency On The Level Of Single Homes And Businesses
Not Powering An Entire Industrial Society Of 320 Million
Let Alone China
No Matter How Many Wind/Solar Farms Anyone Builds

Funny you should mention this. Any new construction of Commercial sites for the last 2 years have always included Solar arrays. Around here, we have sunshine almost year round. Even in the Winter time. This is why you will see Snow Skiers in burmuda shorts in Feb. The bulk of the snow and cloud cover happens at night so the day is usually clear skies or near clear skies. Leaving out Solar Arrays from new Commercial Construction is just plain stupid. Since you have to pay for a roof anyway, put solar arrays instead of roof tiles. It doesn't cost that much more even when you include the wiring and controls. You start getting your money back the day you throw the switch even if all you use them for is to power your Offices and outdoor lights.

But I have shown that Solar isn't the only thing that can be used. And Fusion will be here in the next 7 to 10 years which pretty well takes over for all other forms of electric generation except for Hydro, Solar and Wind. NG, Coal and Oil become forgotten.

Your original entry into this conversation was could we use Electric Power for Aircraft. The answer to that was, YES. They are already doing it. And by 2025, commuter flights will be electric power for seating of 10 to 50 people that are now using Jet Fuel. And that is a very safe prediction.

We are in a very exiting time right now. Energy Technology is making a huge leap. It's been a long time coming but like all other science evolutions, it happens in spurts. Welcome to the latest spurt.

Obviously you’re not speaking for all of America, many places in America solar is not feasible and won’t be for decades

 

[healthmyths]

it means end of states gas-stations : KSA, "Russia", all Gulf states , etc. how our world without states gas-stations will be look like?

Renewable Energy Will Be Consistently Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels By 2020,
The organisation – which has more than 150 member countries – says the cost of generating power from onshore wind has fallen by around 23% since 2010 while the cost of solar photovoltaic (PV) electricity has fallen by 73% in that time. With further price falls expected for these and other green energy options, IRENA says all renewable energy technologies should be competitive on price with fossil fuels by 2020.Globally, onshore wind schemes are now costing an average of $0.06 per kilowatt hour (kWh), although some schemes are coming in at $0.04 per KwH, while the cost of solar PV is down to $0.10 per KwH. In comparison, the cost of electricity generation based on fossil fuels typically falls in a range of $0.05 to $0.17 per KwH.

Renewable Energy Will Be Consistently Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels By 2020, Report Claims

Question. How do the "Wind Turbines" rotate without some type of lubricant...i.e. oil? Won't the diminishing amount of oil produced raise the price of oil used to lubricate most
turning objects, i.e. wheels, wind turbines, etc.?

Also has the cost of interrupting wind patterns as Wind farms have shown to do been calculated?

Wind farms can affect local weather patterns
Wind farms affect local weather
The scientists also conducted multiple computer simulations of a wind farm using a climate model called RAMS (Regional Atmospheric Modeling System).
The research showed that, depending on the natural air conditions, mixing the air with a turbine's rotor would either result in a warming or a cooling near the surface.

 

[Redfish]

And Here We Are
Still Talking Efficiency On The Level Of Single Homes And Businesses
Not Powering An Entire Industrial Society Of 320 Million
Let Alone China
No Matter How Many Wind/Solar Farms Anyone Builds

Funny you should mention this. Any new construction of Commercial sites for the last 2 years have always included Solar arrays. Around here, we have sunshine almost year round. Even in the Winter time. This is why you will see Snow Skiers in burmuda shorts in Feb. The bulk of the snow and cloud cover happens at night so the day is usually clear skies or near clear skies. Leaving out Solar Arrays from new Commercial Construction is just plain stupid. Since you have to pay for a roof anyway, put solar arrays instead of roof tiles. It doesn't cost that much more even when you include the wiring and controls. You start getting your money back the day you throw the switch even if all you use them for is to power your Offices and outdoor lights.

But I have shown that Solar isn't the only thing that can be used. And Fusion will be here in the next 7 to 10 years which pretty well takes over for all other forms of electric generation except for Hydro, Solar and Wind. NG, Coal and Oil become forgotten.

Your original entry into this conversation was could we use Electric Power for Aircraft. The answer to that was, YES. They are already doing it. And by 2025, commuter flights will be electric power for seating of 10 to 50 people that are now using Jet Fuel. And that is a very safe prediction.

We are in a very exiting time right now. Energy Technology is making a huge leap. It's been a long time coming but like all other science evolutions, it happens in spurts. Welcome to the latest spurt.

how heavy are the batteries in you electric airplane? How much wing span is needed to carry that extra weight? You are also talking about large heavy electric motors to generate enough power to turn props at the needed RPMs. Then when it lands those huge batteries need recharging, where will that electricity come from?

New technology is great and we should pursue all alternative power sources, but we also need to be practical and not get deluded into thinking we can get off of fossil fuels in the near future.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

If it is so "hard to get" then why is world supply at an all time high with low prices to reflect that? Why is the U.S. now a NET EXPORTER OF OIL? Why are we not extracting at many locations we know? Because we are getting oil, and natural gas EASILY, and CHEAPLY, and you just CAN'T STAND THAT. LOL!

Drill baby drill! Low energy prices help the poor, and middle class the most. What about that fact Libs? Don't you want to help the poor, and their CHILDREN?

you are aware crude has nothing to do with electricity??

You are aware that all energy supply, and pricing affects ALL OTHER ENERGY and PRICING. Right? So crude has a LOT OF EFFECT on the cost to generate electricity.

I would have to ask for your proof of that

both the price of crude and coal are made up in a

On the average, 8 hours a day, the sun don't shine. Even in a rain storm or overcast, the sun shines and you still get 60% solar power. On a sunny day, using the new solar panels, you can get up to 95% output. Now, couple that with lithium batteries or even old style Deep Cells and you have power for that 8 hours you don't have any power coming from your panels. Again, when you do the planning for construction and you build this in, the cost is much lower than if you add it later. We don't have any mandate here that requires new Commercial Builds to install solar power but they are doing it anyway because it's just plain the smart thing to do. So it doesn't matter if the Government says you have to do it or not, it's the smart thing to do. You can play the spoiled little kid if you want but the rest of us will do the smart thing.

Lol
Without fossil fuels the northern plains are a wasteland... uninhabitable.

We have barely found the tip of the iceberg up here on the available fossil fuel energies.
That’s just the way it is, we actually have four seasons of here a lot of the country does not

Without fossil fuels the north western would be uninhabited? Are you trying to cheer me up?

No, the Climate change isn't all Man Made. But we contribute to it. We have a choice. We can work to lessen the affects of it and it will pass faster to better times or we can work to worsen it and extend it's bad times and maybe wreck things forever as we know it. Only man has that choice. Fossil Fuel Use is part of that choice.

Things like adding scrubbers to the coal burning factories that makes them as clean as Natural Gas. Cutting back on petro use in cars, trucks, trains and planes by using alternative methods that are more green friendly without giving them up. If we had allowed things to keep going like they were, the Earth would be unlivable today. You are too young to remember when Chesapeake Bay had a thick film on it with dead fish floating on top of the film. And that is our Nations Capital. You are too young to remember the warning sirens for many industrial cities to get your small children inside because the air was so bad it could kill your children. You are too young to remember the Black Snow. Welcome to the 1950s and 1960s. And we did all this in 60 short years starting when the Industrial Revolution began in the late 1890s. Yes, the Industrial Revolution is listed as sooner but it wasn't until the 1890s that it hit it's real stride. Remember this, England hit it's industrial Revolution in the late 1790s. They ended the European Mini Ice Age with it. You know, the one that stopped the Vikings Cold (get the pun there?).

We have a choice to hurt or help.

humans contribute to pollution, not climate change. There is no proven link between man made pollution and climate. The climate of planet earth is controlled by the sun, the earth's tilt on its axis, and ocean currents, it has been so for hundreds of millions of years and will be so hundreds of millions of years after the last human is gone. we are a pimple on a gnats ass on an elephant when it comes to earth's climate. Even our pollution will be gone soon after humans are gone. You give us way too much credit.

dang fish I have to agree with you on this except for the millions of yrs old, there is more proof for a young earth than an old one

I'm glad you agree, the actual age of planet earth is not really pertinent to this discussion, whether its 500 million years or 50 million years doesn't really matter, man never has, and never will, control its climate.

There is proof that we can influence it though. We can make the conditions worse or lessen the conditions to where it should be. Mother nature rarely does anything that drastic on it's own. It does things gradual. But with our help, it can get very vicious. Or we can extend the negative affects. I used the English Industrial Revolution in the late 1700s as an example. They helped to end the mini ice age that ended the Viking Raiding Era. It would have ended by itself within 50 years anyway but with the amount of carbon they were introducing into the area at the rate they were introducing it, it affected the climate. That Ice Age was not global so it didn't take nearly as much to affect it as if it were global.

The US really didn't start it's Industrial Revolution until the late 1800s. After the Civil War, they started to really go crazy with industry. In order to feed that industry, the West's resources were taken gangbusters with little regard to the repercussions. By 1895, the Industrial Revolution was at it's peak. Entire mountainsides were stripped of it's resources. We now had the technology to remove entire mountain top. Mountains were stripped bare of all vegatation leaving mud slides. Thousands of species became extinct due to the loss of their habitats. The Air started to become foul. The Rivers started to be so polluted that they could no longer support life due to pollution. By 1950, many eastern rivers were covered with deadly slime. Many of the major industrial cities had deadly air. Coal Burning caused black snow where the carbon in the air would mix with the water and come down with the snow and it would be black. Sometime in the 60s, they started to clean things up a bit. By the mid 1970s, a lot of these practices were changed. And, yes, there were a lot of people that said the same things you do today. But they were wrong. We did affect our climate at the rate we were polluting. We have come a very long way. Had we kept things like they were, many regions would have been rendered completely uninhabited and the weather conditions would have become worse than they already are. But we have a ways to go before we can let Mother Nature get back to doing it her gentle way instead of being so danged harsh.

 

[joaquinmiller]

If it is so "hard to get" then why is world supply at an all time high with low prices to reflect that? Why is the U.S. now a NET EXPORTER OF OIL? Why are we not extracting at many locations we know? Because we are getting oil, and natural gas EASILY, and CHEAPLY, and you just CAN'T STAND THAT. LOL!

Drill baby drill! Low energy prices help the poor, and middle class the most. What about that fact Libs? Don't you want to help the poor, and their CHILDREN?

you are aware crude has nothing to do with electricity??

You are aware that all energy supply, and pricing affects ALL OTHER ENERGY and PRICING. Right? So crude has a LOT OF EFFECT on the cost to generate electricity.

I would have to ask for your proof of that

both the price of crude and coal are made up in a

On the average, 8 hours a day, the sun don't shine. Even in a rain storm or overcast, the sun shines and you still get 60% solar power. On a sunny day, using the new solar panels, you can get up to 95% output. Now, couple that with lithium batteries or even old style Deep Cells and you have power for that 8 hours you don't have any power coming from your panels. Again, when you do the planning for construction and you build this in, the cost is much lower than if you add it later. We don't have any mandate here that requires new Commercial Builds to install solar power but they are doing it anyway because it's just plain the smart thing to do. So it doesn't matter if the Government says you have to do it or not, it's the smart thing to do. You can play the spoiled little kid if you want but the rest of us will do the smart thing.

Lol
Without fossil fuels the northern plains are a wasteland... uninhabitable.

We have barely found the tip of the iceberg up here on the available fossil fuel energies.
That’s just the way it is, we actually have four seasons of here a lot of the country does not

Without fossil fuels the north western would be uninhabited? Are you trying to cheer me up?

No, the Climate change isn't all Man Made. But we contribute to it. We have a choice. We can work to lessen the affects of it and it will pass faster to better times or we can work to worsen it and extend it's bad times and maybe wreck things forever as we know it. Only man has that choice. Fossil Fuel Use is part of that choice.

Things like adding scrubbers to the coal burning factories that makes them as clean as Natural Gas. Cutting back on petro use in cars, trucks, trains and planes by using alternative methods that are more green friendly without giving them up. If we had allowed things to keep going like they were, the Earth would be unlivable today. You are too young to remember when Chesapeake Bay had a thick film on it with dead fish floating on top of the film. And that is our Nations Capital. You are too young to remember the warning sirens for many industrial cities to get your small children inside because the air was so bad it could kill your children. You are too young to remember the Black Snow. Welcome to the 1950s and 1960s. And we did all this in 60 short years starting when the Industrial Revolution began in the late 1890s. Yes, the Industrial Revolution is listed as sooner but it wasn't until the 1890s that it hit it's real stride. Remember this, England hit it's industrial Revolution in the late 1790s. They ended the European Mini Ice Age with it. You know, the one that stopped the Vikings Cold (get the pun there?).

We have a choice to hurt or help.

humans contribute to pollution, not climate change. There is no proven link between man made pollution and climate. The climate of planet earth is controlled by the sun, the earth's tilt on its axis, and ocean currents, it has been so for hundreds of millions of years and will be so hundreds of millions of years after the last human is gone. we are a pimple on a gnats ass on an elephant when it comes to earth's climate. Even our pollution will be gone soon after humans are gone. You give us way too much credit.

dang fish I have to agree with you on this except for the millions of yrs old, there is more proof for a young earth than an old one

I'm glad you agree, the actual age of planet earth is not really pertinent to this discussion, whether its 500 million years or 50 million years doesn't really matter, man never has, and never will, control its climate.

If God had intended man to fly, he'd have given him wings.

 

[Redfish]

you are aware crude has nothing to do with electricity??

You are aware that all energy supply, and pricing affects ALL OTHER ENERGY and PRICING. Right? So crude has a LOT OF EFFECT on the cost to generate electricity.

I would have to ask for your proof of that

both the price of crude and coal are made up in a

Lol
Without fossil fuels the northern plains are a wasteland... uninhabitable.

We have barely found the tip of the iceberg up here on the available fossil fuel energies.
That’s just the way it is, we actually have four seasons of here a lot of the country does not

Without fossil fuels the north western would be uninhabited? Are you trying to cheer me up?

No, the Climate change isn't all Man Made. But we contribute to it. We have a choice. We can work to lessen the affects of it and it will pass faster to better times or we can work to worsen it and extend it's bad times and maybe wreck things forever as we know it. Only man has that choice. Fossil Fuel Use is part of that choice.

Things like adding scrubbers to the coal burning factories that makes them as clean as Natural Gas. Cutting back on petro use in cars, trucks, trains and planes by using alternative methods that are more green friendly without giving them up. If we had allowed things to keep going like they were, the Earth would be unlivable today. You are too young to remember when Chesapeake Bay had a thick film on it with dead fish floating on top of the film. And that is our Nations Capital. You are too young to remember the warning sirens for many industrial cities to get your small children inside because the air was so bad it could kill your children. You are too young to remember the Black Snow. Welcome to the 1950s and 1960s. And we did all this in 60 short years starting when the Industrial Revolution began in the late 1890s. Yes, the Industrial Revolution is listed as sooner but it wasn't until the 1890s that it hit it's real stride. Remember this, England hit it's industrial Revolution in the late 1790s. They ended the European Mini Ice Age with it. You know, the one that stopped the Vikings Cold (get the pun there?).

We have a choice to hurt or help.

humans contribute to pollution, not climate change. There is no proven link between man made pollution and climate. The climate of planet earth is controlled by the sun, the earth's tilt on its axis, and ocean currents, it has been so for hundreds of millions of years and will be so hundreds of millions of years after the last human is gone. we are a pimple on a gnats ass on an elephant when it comes to earth's climate. Even our pollution will be gone soon after humans are gone. You give us way too much credit.

dang fish I have to agree with you on this except for the millions of yrs old, there is more proof for a young earth than an old one

I'm glad you agree, the actual age of planet earth is not really pertinent to this discussion, whether its 500 million years or 50 million years doesn't really matter, man never has, and never will, control its climate.

There is proof that we can influence it though. We can make the conditions worse or lessen the conditions to where it should be. Mother nature rarely does anything that drastic on it's own. It does things gradual. But with our help, it can get very vicious. Or we can extend the negative affects. I used the English Industrial Revolution in the late 1700s as an example. They helped to end the mini ice age that ended the Viking Raiding Era. It would have ended by itself within 50 years anyway but with the amount of carbon they were introducing into the area at the rate they were introducing it, it affected the climate. That Ice Age was not global so it didn't take nearly as much to affect it as if it were global.

The US really didn't start it's Industrial Revolution until the late 1800s. After the Civil War, they started to really go crazy with industry. In order to feed that industry, the West's resources were taken gangbusters with little regard to the repercussions. By 1895, the Industrial Revolution was at it's peak. Entire mountainsides were stripped of it's resources. We now had the technology to remove entire mountain top. Mountains were stripped bare of all vegatation leaving mud slides. Thousands of species became extinct due to the loss of their habitats. The Air started to become foul. The Rivers started to be so polluted that they could no longer support life due to pollution. By 1950, many eastern rivers were covered with deadly slime. Many of the major industrial cities had deadly air. Coal Burning caused black snow where the carbon in the air would mix with the water and come down with the snow and it would be black. Sometime in the 60s, they started to clean things up a bit. By the mid 1970s, a lot of these practices were changed. And, yes, there were a lot of people that said the same things you do today. But they were wrong. We did affect our climate at the rate we were polluting. We have come a very long way. Had we kept things like they were, many regions would have been rendered completely uninhabited and the weather conditions would have become worse than they already are. But we have a ways to go before we can let Mother Nature get back to doing it her gentle way instead of being so danged harsh.

nice rant, but you continue to make my point for me. Man can pollute the earth, air and water, but nothing man has done has resulted in changing the climate of the planet. Now, an all out nuclear war with nukes exploded all over the planet would certainly change the climate for a few hundred, or maybe a few thousand years, but that's still a finger snap in the life of the planet. To think we can change the climate in the immediate short term is "scientifically" naïve.

the current climate change narrative is designed to control the actions of humans, not to save the planet. It is Orwellian. Big brother is watching you.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

And Here We Are
Still Talking Efficiency On The Level Of Single Homes And Businesses
Not Powering An Entire Industrial Society Of 320 Million
Let Alone China
No Matter How Many Wind/Solar Farms Anyone Builds

Funny you should mention this. Any new construction of Commercial sites for the last 2 years have always included Solar arrays. Around here, we have sunshine almost year round. Even in the Winter time. This is why you will see Snow Skiers in burmuda shorts in Feb. The bulk of the snow and cloud cover happens at night so the day is usually clear skies or near clear skies. Leaving out Solar Arrays from new Commercial Construction is just plain stupid. Since you have to pay for a roof anyway, put solar arrays instead of roof tiles. It doesn't cost that much more even when you include the wiring and controls. You start getting your money back the day you throw the switch even if all you use them for is to power your Offices and outdoor lights.

But I have shown that Solar isn't the only thing that can be used. And Fusion will be here in the next 7 to 10 years which pretty well takes over for all other forms of electric generation except for Hydro, Solar and Wind. NG, Coal and Oil become forgotten.

Your original entry into this conversation was could we use Electric Power for Aircraft. The answer to that was, YES. They are already doing it. And by 2025, commuter flights will be electric power for seating of 10 to 50 people that are now using Jet Fuel. And that is a very safe prediction.

We are in a very exiting time right now. Energy Technology is making a huge leap. It's been a long time coming but like all other science evolutions, it happens in spurts. Welcome to the latest spurt.

Obviously you’re not speaking for all of America, many places in America solar is not feasible and won’t be for decades

Funny you should bring that up. They use Solar in the Arctic and the Antarctic even during the winter months when you might have only an hour or so of actual direct sunlight. They are experimenting to get ready for using it on Mars which will have about the same conditions as the Arctic for solar during the Arctic summer months. Something is better than nothing.

 

[Redfish]

you are aware crude has nothing to do with electricity??

You are aware that all energy supply, and pricing affects ALL OTHER ENERGY and PRICING. Right? So crude has a LOT OF EFFECT on the cost to generate electricity.

I would have to ask for your proof of that

both the price of crude and coal are made up in a

Lol
Without fossil fuels the northern plains are a wasteland... uninhabitable.

We have barely found the tip of the iceberg up here on the available fossil fuel energies.
That’s just the way it is, we actually have four seasons of here a lot of the country does not

Without fossil fuels the north western would be uninhabited? Are you trying to cheer me up?

No, the Climate change isn't all Man Made. But we contribute to it. We have a choice. We can work to lessen the affects of it and it will pass faster to better times or we can work to worsen it and extend it's bad times and maybe wreck things forever as we know it. Only man has that choice. Fossil Fuel Use is part of that choice.

Things like adding scrubbers to the coal burning factories that makes them as clean as Natural Gas. Cutting back on petro use in cars, trucks, trains and planes by using alternative methods that are more green friendly without giving them up. If we had allowed things to keep going like they were, the Earth would be unlivable today. You are too young to remember when Chesapeake Bay had a thick film on it with dead fish floating on top of the film. And that is our Nations Capital. You are too young to remember the warning sirens for many industrial cities to get your small children inside because the air was so bad it could kill your children. You are too young to remember the Black Snow. Welcome to the 1950s and 1960s. And we did all this in 60 short years starting when the Industrial Revolution began in the late 1890s. Yes, the Industrial Revolution is listed as sooner but it wasn't until the 1890s that it hit it's real stride. Remember this, England hit it's industrial Revolution in the late 1790s. They ended the European Mini Ice Age with it. You know, the one that stopped the Vikings Cold (get the pun there?).

We have a choice to hurt or help.

humans contribute to pollution, not climate change. There is no proven link between man made pollution and climate. The climate of planet earth is controlled by the sun, the earth's tilt on its axis, and ocean currents, it has been so for hundreds of millions of years and will be so hundreds of millions of years after the last human is gone. we are a pimple on a gnats ass on an elephant when it comes to earth's climate. Even our pollution will be gone soon after humans are gone. You give us way too much credit.

dang fish I have to agree with you on this except for the millions of yrs old, there is more proof for a young earth than an old one

I'm glad you agree, the actual age of planet earth is not really pertinent to this discussion, whether its 500 million years or 50 million years doesn't really matter, man never has, and never will, control its climate.

If God had intended man to fly, he'd have given him wings.

God gave man a brain so he could figure out how to fly.