Renewable Energy Will Be Consistently Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels By 2020

[Redfish]

And Here We Are
Still Talking Efficiency On The Level Of Single Homes And Businesses
Not Powering An Entire Industrial Society Of 320 Million
Let Alone China
No Matter How Many Wind/Solar Farms Anyone Builds

Funny you should mention this. Any new construction of Commercial sites for the last 2 years have always included Solar arrays. Around here, we have sunshine almost year round. Even in the Winter time. This is why you will see Snow Skiers in burmuda shorts in Feb. The bulk of the snow and cloud cover happens at night so the day is usually clear skies or near clear skies. Leaving out Solar Arrays from new Commercial Construction is just plain stupid. Since you have to pay for a roof anyway, put solar arrays instead of roof tiles. It doesn't cost that much more even when you include the wiring and controls. You start getting your money back the day you throw the switch even if all you use them for is to power your Offices and outdoor lights.

But I have shown that Solar isn't the only thing that can be used. And Fusion will be here in the next 7 to 10 years which pretty well takes over for all other forms of electric generation except for Hydro, Solar and Wind. NG, Coal and Oil become forgotten.

Your original entry into this conversation was could we use Electric Power for Aircraft. The answer to that was, YES. They are already doing it. And by 2025, commuter flights will be electric power for seating of 10 to 50 people that are now using Jet Fuel. And that is a very safe prediction.

We are in a very exiting time right now. Energy Technology is making a huge leap. It's been a long time coming but like all other science evolutions, it happens in spurts. Welcome to the latest spurt.

Obviously you’re not speaking for all of America, many places in America solar is not feasible and won’t be for decades

Funny you should bring that up. They use Solar in the Arctic and the Antarctic even during the winter months when you might have only an hour or so of actual direct sunlight. They are experimenting to get ready for using it on Mars which will have about the same conditions as the Arctic for solar during the Arctic summer months. Something is better than nothing.

this gets more amusing with each new post. you want solar panel farms and the libs in California are now demanding that the solar farms be removed because they are disrupting the habitat of small desert reptiles.

Liberalism is a mental disease, that is proven every day.

 

[joaquinmiller]

And Here We Are
Still Talking Efficiency On The Level Of Single Homes And Businesses
Not Powering An Entire Industrial Society Of 320 Million
Let Alone China
No Matter How Many Wind/Solar Farms Anyone Builds

Funny you should mention this. Any new construction of Commercial sites for the last 2 years have always included Solar arrays. Around here, we have sunshine almost year round. Even in the Winter time. This is why you will see Snow Skiers in burmuda shorts in Feb. The bulk of the snow and cloud cover happens at night so the day is usually clear skies or near clear skies. Leaving out Solar Arrays from new Commercial Construction is just plain stupid. Since you have to pay for a roof anyway, put solar arrays instead of roof tiles. It doesn't cost that much more even when you include the wiring and controls. You start getting your money back the day you throw the switch even if all you use them for is to power your Offices and outdoor lights.

But I have shown that Solar isn't the only thing that can be used. And Fusion will be here in the next 7 to 10 years which pretty well takes over for all other forms of electric generation except for Hydro, Solar and Wind. NG, Coal and Oil become forgotten.

Your original entry into this conversation was could we use Electric Power for Aircraft. The answer to that was, YES. They are already doing it. And by 2025, commuter flights will be electric power for seating of 10 to 50 people that are now using Jet Fuel. And that is a very safe prediction.

We are in a very exiting time right now. Energy Technology is making a huge leap. It's been a long time coming but like all other science evolutions, it happens in spurts. Welcome to the latest spurt.

how heavy are the batteries in you electric airplane? How much wing span is needed to carry that extra weight? You are also talking about large heavy electric motors to generate enough power to turn props at the needed RPMs. Then when it lands those huge batteries need recharging, where will that electricity come from?

New technology is great and we should pursue all alternative power sources, but we also need to be practical and not get deluded into thinking we can get off of fossil fuels in the near future.

A 747 carries 329,426 pounds of fuel at takeoff.

For the latest generation of passenger jets, fuel is up to 80% of the total takeoff weight. Futuristic of course, but leaving that off leaves room for some big batteries.

 

[joaquinmiller]

You are aware that all energy supply, and pricing affects ALL OTHER ENERGY and PRICING. Right? So crude has a LOT OF EFFECT on the cost to generate electricity.

I would have to ask for your proof of that

both the price of crude and coal are made up in a

Without fossil fuels the north western would be uninhabited? Are you trying to cheer me up?

No, the Climate change isn't all Man Made. But we contribute to it. We have a choice. We can work to lessen the affects of it and it will pass faster to better times or we can work to worsen it and extend it's bad times and maybe wreck things forever as we know it. Only man has that choice. Fossil Fuel Use is part of that choice.

Things like adding scrubbers to the coal burning factories that makes them as clean as Natural Gas. Cutting back on petro use in cars, trucks, trains and planes by using alternative methods that are more green friendly without giving them up. If we had allowed things to keep going like they were, the Earth would be unlivable today. You are too young to remember when Chesapeake Bay had a thick film on it with dead fish floating on top of the film. And that is our Nations Capital. You are too young to remember the warning sirens for many industrial cities to get your small children inside because the air was so bad it could kill your children. You are too young to remember the Black Snow. Welcome to the 1950s and 1960s. And we did all this in 60 short years starting when the Industrial Revolution began in the late 1890s. Yes, the Industrial Revolution is listed as sooner but it wasn't until the 1890s that it hit it's real stride. Remember this, England hit it's industrial Revolution in the late 1790s. They ended the European Mini Ice Age with it. You know, the one that stopped the Vikings Cold (get the pun there?).

We have a choice to hurt or help.

humans contribute to pollution, not climate change. There is no proven link between man made pollution and climate. The climate of planet earth is controlled by the sun, the earth's tilt on its axis, and ocean currents, it has been so for hundreds of millions of years and will be so hundreds of millions of years after the last human is gone. we are a pimple on a gnats ass on an elephant when it comes to earth's climate. Even our pollution will be gone soon after humans are gone. You give us way too much credit.

dang fish I have to agree with you on this except for the millions of yrs old, there is more proof for a young earth than an old one

I'm glad you agree, the actual age of planet earth is not really pertinent to this discussion, whether its 500 million years or 50 million years doesn't really matter, man never has, and never will, control its climate.

If God had intended man to fly, he'd have given him wings.

God gave man a brain so he could figure out how to fly.

Or so he could control his climate. Just noting that your "never will" is faith-based.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

And Here We Are
Still Talking Efficiency On The Level Of Single Homes And Businesses
Not Powering An Entire Industrial Society Of 320 Million
Let Alone China
No Matter How Many Wind/Solar Farms Anyone Builds

Funny you should mention this. Any new construction of Commercial sites for the last 2 years have always included Solar arrays. Around here, we have sunshine almost year round. Even in the Winter time. This is why you will see Snow Skiers in burmuda shorts in Feb. The bulk of the snow and cloud cover happens at night so the day is usually clear skies or near clear skies. Leaving out Solar Arrays from new Commercial Construction is just plain stupid. Since you have to pay for a roof anyway, put solar arrays instead of roof tiles. It doesn't cost that much more even when you include the wiring and controls. You start getting your money back the day you throw the switch even if all you use them for is to power your Offices and outdoor lights.

But I have shown that Solar isn't the only thing that can be used. And Fusion will be here in the next 7 to 10 years which pretty well takes over for all other forms of electric generation except for Hydro, Solar and Wind. NG, Coal and Oil become forgotten.

Your original entry into this conversation was could we use Electric Power for Aircraft. The answer to that was, YES. They are already doing it. And by 2025, commuter flights will be electric power for seating of 10 to 50 people that are now using Jet Fuel. And that is a very safe prediction.

We are in a very exiting time right now. Energy Technology is making a huge leap. It's been a long time coming but like all other science evolutions, it happens in spurts. Welcome to the latest spurt.

how heavy are the batteries in you electric airplane? How much wing span is needed to carry that extra weight? You are also talking about large heavy electric motors to generate enough power to turn props at the needed RPMs. Then when it lands those huge batteries need recharging, where will that electricity come from?

New technology is great and we should pursue all alternative power sources, but we also need to be practical and not get deluded into thinking we can get off of fossil fuels in the near future.

The electric motor is actually smaller and lighter than the Avgas motor. And the batteries like the Lipo4 batteries are lighter than the Avgas tanks full. While the HP of the Avgas at sea level will be higher, as the altitude goes up, the HP of the Electric will exceed the HP of the Avgas engine. The only real advantage the Avgas rig has is range,not power.

Believe it or not, we reached the pinacle of development of the gas and diesel engine in the 1940s. They are doing nothing today that wasn't already done during WWII during the war effort. In Recip Engines (Inlines) turbochargers were already perfected, so were superchargers. They could get outstanding performance on 87 octane. All they are doing is just tweaking the WWII designs that were near perfect already.

Meanwhile, the Electric was forgotten for nearly 100 years. Just plain ignored. At one time, (1903) at the World Auto Show in Chicago, the number one shown engine was the diesel while the number two was the electric with the steam running a distance 3rd. There was only one gas powered engine represented. In just a few short years, the Gas was the dominate one with the Diesel running a distant second and the electric and the steam were no longer represented. While I realize that the steam had no future as a car or truck engine, the electric did have but was completely ignored for the next 100 years. Meanwhile, the gas and diesel had that time to develop. Out of Necessity, the Electric is now getting the attention it should have received over 100 years ago. And it's starting to compete directly with gas. In about 15 years, it's gone from experimental to actually competing on a limited level. Not bad, really. Give it another 5 years and it's going to be able to go head ot head. Remember, the Gas engine really can't develop any further than it already has since it's peaked. The Electric has not peaked by far.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

And Here We Are
Still Talking Efficiency On The Level Of Single Homes And Businesses
Not Powering An Entire Industrial Society Of 320 Million
Let Alone China
No Matter How Many Wind/Solar Farms Anyone Builds

Funny you should mention this. Any new construction of Commercial sites for the last 2 years have always included Solar arrays. Around here, we have sunshine almost year round. Even in the Winter time. This is why you will see Snow Skiers in burmuda shorts in Feb. The bulk of the snow and cloud cover happens at night so the day is usually clear skies or near clear skies. Leaving out Solar Arrays from new Commercial Construction is just plain stupid. Since you have to pay for a roof anyway, put solar arrays instead of roof tiles. It doesn't cost that much more even when you include the wiring and controls. You start getting your money back the day you throw the switch even if all you use them for is to power your Offices and outdoor lights.

But I have shown that Solar isn't the only thing that can be used. And Fusion will be here in the next 7 to 10 years which pretty well takes over for all other forms of electric generation except for Hydro, Solar and Wind. NG, Coal and Oil become forgotten.

Your original entry into this conversation was could we use Electric Power for Aircraft. The answer to that was, YES. They are already doing it. And by 2025, commuter flights will be electric power for seating of 10 to 50 people that are now using Jet Fuel. And that is a very safe prediction.

We are in a very exiting time right now. Energy Technology is making a huge leap. It's been a long time coming but like all other science evolutions, it happens in spurts. Welcome to the latest spurt.

Obviously you’re not speaking for all of America, many places in America solar is not feasible and won’t be for decades

Funny you should bring that up. They use Solar in the Arctic and the Antarctic even during the winter months when you might have only an hour or so of actual direct sunlight. They are experimenting to get ready for using it on Mars which will have about the same conditions as the Arctic for solar during the Arctic summer months. Something is better than nothing.

this gets more amusing with each new post. you want solar panel farms and the libs in California are now demanding that the solar farms be removed because they are disrupting the habitat of small desert reptiles.

Liberalism is a mental disease, that is proven every day.

Ever been to southern Utah? How about western New Mexico or western Texas, or Most of Arizona, and a huge chunk of southern California? There is a reason no one lives there. It's hot, barren, arid and has killed may that have tried to just cross those areas. Why not use those areas for something other than blank spots on Google maps. And that is thinking like a Conservative. I don't call you a conservative. I really don't know what you are but you aren't a conservative.

 

[joaquinmiller]

And Here We Are
Still Talking Efficiency On The Level Of Single Homes And Businesses
Not Powering An Entire Industrial Society Of 320 Million
Let Alone China
No Matter How Many Wind/Solar Farms Anyone Builds

Funny you should mention this. Any new construction of Commercial sites for the last 2 years have always included Solar arrays. Around here, we have sunshine almost year round. Even in the Winter time. This is why you will see Snow Skiers in burmuda shorts in Feb. The bulk of the snow and cloud cover happens at night so the day is usually clear skies or near clear skies. Leaving out Solar Arrays from new Commercial Construction is just plain stupid. Since you have to pay for a roof anyway, put solar arrays instead of roof tiles. It doesn't cost that much more even when you include the wiring and controls. You start getting your money back the day you throw the switch even if all you use them for is to power your Offices and outdoor lights.

But I have shown that Solar isn't the only thing that can be used. And Fusion will be here in the next 7 to 10 years which pretty well takes over for all other forms of electric generation except for Hydro, Solar and Wind. NG, Coal and Oil become forgotten.

Your original entry into this conversation was could we use Electric Power for Aircraft. The answer to that was, YES. They are already doing it. And by 2025, commuter flights will be electric power for seating of 10 to 50 people that are now using Jet Fuel. And that is a very safe prediction.

We are in a very exiting time right now. Energy Technology is making a huge leap. It's been a long time coming but like all other science evolutions, it happens in spurts. Welcome to the latest spurt.

how heavy are the batteries in you electric airplane? How much wing span is needed to carry that extra weight? You are also talking about large heavy electric motors to generate enough power to turn props at the needed RPMs. Then when it lands those huge batteries need recharging, where will that electricity come from?

New technology is great and we should pursue all alternative power sources, but we also need to be practical and not get deluded into thinking we can get off of fossil fuels in the near future.

The electric motor is actually smaller and lighter than the Avgas motor. And the batteries like the Lipo4 batteries are lighter than the Avgas tanks full. While the HP of the Avgas at sea level will be higher, as the altitude goes up, the HP of the Electric will exceed the HP of the Avgas engine. The only real advantage the Avgas rig has is range,not power.

Believe it or not, we reached the pinacle of development of the gas and diesel engine in the 1940s. They are doing nothing today that wasn't already done during WWII during the war effort. In Recip Engines (Inlines) turbochargers were already perfected, so were superchargers. They could get outstanding performance on 87 octane. All they are doing is just tweaking the WWII designs that were near perfect already.

Meanwhile, the Electric was forgotten for nearly 100 years. Just plain ignored. At one time, (1903) at the World Auto Show in Chicago, the number one shown engine was the diesel while the number two was the electric with the steam running a distance 3rd. There was only one gas powered engine represented. In just a few short years, the Gas was the dominate one with the Diesel running a distant second and the electric and the steam were no longer represented. While I realize that the steam had no future as a car or truck engine, the electric did have but was completely ignored for the next 100 years. Meanwhile, the gas and diesel had that time to develop. Out of Necessity, the Electric is now getting the attention it should have received over 100 years ago. And it's starting to compete directly with gas. In about 15 years, it's gone from experimental to actually competing on a limited level. Not bad, really. Give it another 5 years and it's going to be able to go head ot head. Remember, the Gas engine really can't develop any further than it already has since it's peaked. The Electric has not peaked by far.

Right. The big gains in aircraft fuel-efficiency - large gains in the past 50 years - are due to aerodynamic design and lighter-weight construction materials.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

And Here We Are
Still Talking Efficiency On The Level Of Single Homes And Businesses
Not Powering An Entire Industrial Society Of 320 Million
Let Alone China
No Matter How Many Wind/Solar Farms Anyone Builds

Funny you should mention this. Any new construction of Commercial sites for the last 2 years have always included Solar arrays. Around here, we have sunshine almost year round. Even in the Winter time. This is why you will see Snow Skiers in burmuda shorts in Feb. The bulk of the snow and cloud cover happens at night so the day is usually clear skies or near clear skies. Leaving out Solar Arrays from new Commercial Construction is just plain stupid. Since you have to pay for a roof anyway, put solar arrays instead of roof tiles. It doesn't cost that much more even when you include the wiring and controls. You start getting your money back the day you throw the switch even if all you use them for is to power your Offices and outdoor lights.

But I have shown that Solar isn't the only thing that can be used. And Fusion will be here in the next 7 to 10 years which pretty well takes over for all other forms of electric generation except for Hydro, Solar and Wind. NG, Coal and Oil become forgotten.

Your original entry into this conversation was could we use Electric Power for Aircraft. The answer to that was, YES. They are already doing it. And by 2025, commuter flights will be electric power for seating of 10 to 50 people that are now using Jet Fuel. And that is a very safe prediction.

We are in a very exiting time right now. Energy Technology is making a huge leap. It's been a long time coming but like all other science evolutions, it happens in spurts. Welcome to the latest spurt.

how heavy are the batteries in you electric airplane? How much wing span is needed to carry that extra weight? You are also talking about large heavy electric motors to generate enough power to turn props at the needed RPMs. Then when it lands those huge batteries need recharging, where will that electricity come from?

New technology is great and we should pursue all alternative power sources, but we also need to be practical and not get deluded into thinking we can get off of fossil fuels in the near future.

A 747 carries 329,426 pounds of fuel at takeoff.

For the latest generation of passenger jets, fuel is up to 80% of the total takeoff weight. Futuristic of course, but leaving that off leaves room for some big batteries.

The 747 is on it's way out. The day of the huge air liner is going fast. This is the reason Airbus is having trouble selling their A380 and sales are down on the 747. Even so, we are decades away of replacing the 250 to 350 seat Jet Fueled airliner.

 

[progressive hunter]

I would have to ask for your proof of that

both the price of crude and coal are made up in a

humans contribute to pollution, not climate change. There is no proven link between man made pollution and climate. The climate of planet earth is controlled by the sun, the earth's tilt on its axis, and ocean currents, it has been so for hundreds of millions of years and will be so hundreds of millions of years after the last human is gone. we are a pimple on a gnats ass on an elephant when it comes to earth's climate. Even our pollution will be gone soon after humans are gone. You give us way too much credit.

dang fish I have to agree with you on this except for the millions of yrs old, there is more proof for a young earth than an old one

I'm glad you agree, the actual age of planet earth is not really pertinent to this discussion, whether its 500 million years or 50 million years doesn't really matter, man never has, and never will, control its climate.

If God had intended man to fly, he'd have given him wings.

God gave man a brain so he could figure out how to fly.

Or so he could control his climate. Just noting that your "never will" is faith-based.

for those of you that think man can control/change mother nature need to know one thing when fcking with her....

SHE FUCKS BACK!!!


so tread carefully

 

[Daryl Hunt]

both the price of crude and coal are made up in a
dang fish I have to agree with you on this except for the millions of yrs old, there is more proof for a young earth than an old one

I'm glad you agree, the actual age of planet earth is not really pertinent to this discussion, whether its 500 million years or 50 million years doesn't really matter, man never has, and never will, control its climate.

If God had intended man to fly, he'd have given him wings.

God gave man a brain so he could figure out how to fly.

Or so he could control his climate. Just noting that your "never will" is faith-based.

for those of you that think man can control/change mother nature need to know one thing when fcking with her....

SHE FUCKS BACK!!!


so tread carefully

And She is in the process of F....ing back right now. Damned, it hurts to be right on this one.

 

[Manonthestreet]

And Here We Are
Still Talking Efficiency On The Level Of Single Homes And Businesses
Not Powering An Entire Industrial Society Of 320 Million
Let Alone China
No Matter How Many Wind/Solar Farms Anyone Builds

Funny you should mention this. Any new construction of Commercial sites for the last 2 years have always included Solar arrays. Around here, we have sunshine almost year round. Even in the Winter time. This is why you will see Snow Skiers in burmuda shorts in Feb. The bulk of the snow and cloud cover happens at night so the day is usually clear skies or near clear skies. Leaving out Solar Arrays from new Commercial Construction is just plain stupid. Since you have to pay for a roof anyway, put solar arrays instead of roof tiles. It doesn't cost that much more even when you include the wiring and controls. You start getting your money back the day you throw the switch even if all you use them for is to power your Offices and outdoor lights.

But I have shown that Solar isn't the only thing that can be used. And Fusion will be here in the next 7 to 10 years which pretty well takes over for all other forms of electric generation except for Hydro, Solar and Wind. NG, Coal and Oil become forgotten.

Your original entry into this conversation was could we use Electric Power for Aircraft. The answer to that was, YES. They are already doing it. And by 2025, commuter flights will be electric power for seating of 10 to 50 people that are now using Jet Fuel. And that is a very safe prediction.

We are in a very exiting time right now. Energy Technology is making a huge leap. It's been a long time coming but like all other science evolutions, it happens in spurts. Welcome to the latest spurt.

how heavy are the batteries in you electric airplane? How much wing span is needed to carry that extra weight? You are also talking about large heavy electric motors to generate enough power to turn props at the needed RPMs. Then when it lands those huge batteries need recharging, where will that electricity come from?

New technology is great and we should pursue all alternative power sources, but we also need to be practical and not get deluded into thinking we can get off of fossil fuels in the near future.

The electric motor is actually smaller and lighter than the Avgas motor. And the batteries like the Lipo4 batteries are lighter than the Avgas tanks full. While the HP of the Avgas at sea level will be higher, as the altitude goes up, the HP of the Electric will exceed the HP of the Avgas engine. The only real advantage the Avgas rig has is range,not power.

Believe it or not, we reached the pinacle of development of the gas and diesel engine in the 1940s. They are doing nothing today that wasn't already done during WWII during the war effort. In Recip Engines (Inlines) turbochargers were already perfected, so were superchargers. They could get outstanding performance on 87 octane. All they are doing is just tweaking the WWII designs that were near perfect already.

Meanwhile, the Electric was forgotten for nearly 100 years. Just plain ignored. At one time, (1903) at the World Auto Show in Chicago, the number one shown engine was the diesel while the number two was the electric with the steam running a distance 3rd. There was only one gas powered engine represented. In just a few short years, the Gas was the dominate one with the Diesel running a distant second and the electric and the steam were no longer represented. While I realize that the steam had no future as a car or truck engine, the electric did have but was completely ignored for the next 100 years. Meanwhile, the gas and diesel had that time to develop. Out of Necessity, the Electric is now getting the attention it should have received over 100 years ago. And it's starting to compete directly with gas. In about 15 years, it's gone from experimental to actually competing on a limited level. Not bad, really. Give it another 5 years and it's going to be able to go head ot head. Remember, the Gas engine really can't develop any further than it already has since it's peaked. The Electric has not peaked by far.

Right. The big gains in aircraft fuel-efficiency - large gains in the past 50 years - are due to aerodynamic design and lighter-weight construction materials.

A blend of evolutionary and revolutionary designs will enable the GE9X to be the most fuel-efficient jet engine GE has ever produced on a per-pounds-of-thrust basis. It’s designed to deliver a 10% improved aircraft fuel burn versus the GE90-115B-powered 777-300ER and a 5% improved specific fuel consumption versus any twin-aisle engine available, plus achieve an approximate 10:1 bypass ratio, a 60:1 overall pressure ratio and margin to Stage 5 noise limits. GE9X Commercial Aircraft Engine | GE Aviation yeah no improvements at all.....rrrigghhhtttt just another in long line of em

 

[joaquinmiller]

both the price of crude and coal are made up in a
dang fish I have to agree with you on this except for the millions of yrs old, there is more proof for a young earth than an old one

I'm glad you agree, the actual age of planet earth is not really pertinent to this discussion, whether its 500 million years or 50 million years doesn't really matter, man never has, and never will, control its climate.

If God had intended man to fly, he'd have given him wings.

God gave man a brain so he could figure out how to fly.

Or so he could control his climate. Just noting that your "never will" is faith-based.

for those of you that think man can control/change mother nature need to know one thing when fcking with her....

SHE FUCKS BACK!!!


so tread carefully

I'm sure mankind will fuck it up. Homo sapiens just haven't been on the planet long enough. Yet.

 

[joaquinmiller]

And Here We Are
Still Talking Efficiency On The Level Of Single Homes And Businesses
Not Powering An Entire Industrial Society Of 320 Million
Let Alone China
No Matter How Many Wind/Solar Farms Anyone Builds

Funny you should mention this. Any new construction of Commercial sites for the last 2 years have always included Solar arrays. Around here, we have sunshine almost year round. Even in the Winter time. This is why you will see Snow Skiers in burmuda shorts in Feb. The bulk of the snow and cloud cover happens at night so the day is usually clear skies or near clear skies. Leaving out Solar Arrays from new Commercial Construction is just plain stupid. Since you have to pay for a roof anyway, put solar arrays instead of roof tiles. It doesn't cost that much more even when you include the wiring and controls. You start getting your money back the day you throw the switch even if all you use them for is to power your Offices and outdoor lights.

But I have shown that Solar isn't the only thing that can be used. And Fusion will be here in the next 7 to 10 years which pretty well takes over for all other forms of electric generation except for Hydro, Solar and Wind. NG, Coal and Oil become forgotten.

Your original entry into this conversation was could we use Electric Power for Aircraft. The answer to that was, YES. They are already doing it. And by 2025, commuter flights will be electric power for seating of 10 to 50 people that are now using Jet Fuel. And that is a very safe prediction.

We are in a very exiting time right now. Energy Technology is making a huge leap. It's been a long time coming but like all other science evolutions, it happens in spurts. Welcome to the latest spurt.

how heavy are the batteries in you electric airplane? How much wing span is needed to carry that extra weight? You are also talking about large heavy electric motors to generate enough power to turn props at the needed RPMs. Then when it lands those huge batteries need recharging, where will that electricity come from?

New technology is great and we should pursue all alternative power sources, but we also need to be practical and not get deluded into thinking we can get off of fossil fuels in the near future.

The electric motor is actually smaller and lighter than the Avgas motor. And the batteries like the Lipo4 batteries are lighter than the Avgas tanks full. While the HP of the Avgas at sea level will be higher, as the altitude goes up, the HP of the Electric will exceed the HP of the Avgas engine. The only real advantage the Avgas rig has is range,not power.

Believe it or not, we reached the pinacle of development of the gas and diesel engine in the 1940s. They are doing nothing today that wasn't already done during WWII during the war effort. In Recip Engines (Inlines) turbochargers were already perfected, so were superchargers. They could get outstanding performance on 87 octane. All they are doing is just tweaking the WWII designs that were near perfect already.

Meanwhile, the Electric was forgotten for nearly 100 years. Just plain ignored. At one time, (1903) at the World Auto Show in Chicago, the number one shown engine was the diesel while the number two was the electric with the steam running a distance 3rd. There was only one gas powered engine represented. In just a few short years, the Gas was the dominate one with the Diesel running a distant second and the electric and the steam were no longer represented. While I realize that the steam had no future as a car or truck engine, the electric did have but was completely ignored for the next 100 years. Meanwhile, the gas and diesel had that time to develop. Out of Necessity, the Electric is now getting the attention it should have received over 100 years ago. And it's starting to compete directly with gas. In about 15 years, it's gone from experimental to actually competing on a limited level. Not bad, really. Give it another 5 years and it's going to be able to go head ot head. Remember, the Gas engine really can't develop any further than it already has since it's peaked. The Electric has not peaked by far.

Right. The big gains in aircraft fuel-efficiency - large gains in the past 50 years - are due to aerodynamic design and lighter-weight construction materials.

A blend of evolutionary and revolutionary designs will enable the GE9X to be the most fuel-efficient jet engine GE has ever produced on a per-pounds-of-thrust basis. It’s designed to deliver a 10% improved aircraft fuel burn versus the GE90-115B-powered 777-300ER and a 5% improved specific fuel consumption versus any twin-aisle engine available, plus achieve an approximate 10:1 bypass ratio, a 60:1 overall pressure ratio and margin to Stage 5 noise limits. GE9X Commercial Aircraft Engine | GE Aviation yeah no improvements at all.....rrrigghhhtttt just another in long line of em

Right, and credit where it's due. The "big gains" - over the past 50 years - were over 55%

 

[progressive hunter]

I'm glad you agree, the actual age of planet earth is not really pertinent to this discussion, whether its 500 million years or 50 million years doesn't really matter, man never has, and never will, control its climate.

If God had intended man to fly, he'd have given him wings.

God gave man a brain so he could figure out how to fly.

Or so he could control his climate. Just noting that your "never will" is faith-based.

for those of you that think man can control/change mother nature need to know one thing when fcking with her....

SHE FUCKS BACK!!!


so tread carefully

I'm sure mankind will fuck it up. Homo sapiens just haven't been on the planet long enough. Yet.

they've been here since the first day

 

[Manonthestreet]

Funny you should mention this. Any new construction of Commercial sites for the last 2 years have always included Solar arrays. Around here, we have sunshine almost year round. Even in the Winter time. This is why you will see Snow Skiers in burmuda shorts in Feb. The bulk of the snow and cloud cover happens at night so the day is usually clear skies or near clear skies. Leaving out Solar Arrays from new Commercial Construction is just plain stupid. Since you have to pay for a roof anyway, put solar arrays instead of roof tiles. It doesn't cost that much more even when you include the wiring and controls. You start getting your money back the day you throw the switch even if all you use them for is to power your Offices and outdoor lights.

But I have shown that Solar isn't the only thing that can be used. And Fusion will be here in the next 7 to 10 years which pretty well takes over for all other forms of electric generation except for Hydro, Solar and Wind. NG, Coal and Oil become forgotten.

Your original entry into this conversation was could we use Electric Power for Aircraft. The answer to that was, YES. They are already doing it. And by 2025, commuter flights will be electric power for seating of 10 to 50 people that are now using Jet Fuel. And that is a very safe prediction.

We are in a very exiting time right now. Energy Technology is making a huge leap. It's been a long time coming but like all other science evolutions, it happens in spurts. Welcome to the latest spurt.

how heavy are the batteries in you electric airplane? How much wing span is needed to carry that extra weight? You are also talking about large heavy electric motors to generate enough power to turn props at the needed RPMs. Then when it lands those huge batteries need recharging, where will that electricity come from?

New technology is great and we should pursue all alternative power sources, but we also need to be practical and not get deluded into thinking we can get off of fossil fuels in the near future.

The electric motor is actually smaller and lighter than the Avgas motor. And the batteries like the Lipo4 batteries are lighter than the Avgas tanks full. While the HP of the Avgas at sea level will be higher, as the altitude goes up, the HP of the Electric will exceed the HP of the Avgas engine. The only real advantage the Avgas rig has is range,not power.

Believe it or not, we reached the pinacle of development of the gas and diesel engine in the 1940s. They are doing nothing today that wasn't already done during WWII during the war effort. In Recip Engines (Inlines) turbochargers were already perfected, so were superchargers. They could get outstanding performance on 87 octane. All they are doing is just tweaking the WWII designs that were near perfect already.

Meanwhile, the Electric was forgotten for nearly 100 years. Just plain ignored. At one time, (1903) at the World Auto Show in Chicago, the number one shown engine was the diesel while the number two was the electric with the steam running a distance 3rd. There was only one gas powered engine represented. In just a few short years, the Gas was the dominate one with the Diesel running a distant second and the electric and the steam were no longer represented. While I realize that the steam had no future as a car or truck engine, the electric did have but was completely ignored for the next 100 years. Meanwhile, the gas and diesel had that time to develop. Out of Necessity, the Electric is now getting the attention it should have received over 100 years ago. And it's starting to compete directly with gas. In about 15 years, it's gone from experimental to actually competing on a limited level. Not bad, really. Give it another 5 years and it's going to be able to go head ot head. Remember, the Gas engine really can't develop any further than it already has since it's peaked. The Electric has not peaked by far.

Right. The big gains in aircraft fuel-efficiency - large gains in the past 50 years - are due to aerodynamic design and lighter-weight construction materials.

A blend of evolutionary and revolutionary designs will enable the GE9X to be the most fuel-efficient jet engine GE has ever produced on a per-pounds-of-thrust basis. It’s designed to deliver a 10% improved aircraft fuel burn versus the GE90-115B-powered 777-300ER and a 5% improved specific fuel consumption versus any twin-aisle engine available, plus achieve an approximate 10:1 bypass ratio, a 60:1 overall pressure ratio and margin to Stage 5 noise limits. GE9X Commercial Aircraft Engine | GE Aviation yeah no improvements at all.....rrrigghhhtttt just another in long line of em

Right, and credit where it's due. The "big gains" - over the past 50 years - were over 55%

yeah so.....look at c130J....huge improvements...….goes from tactical to strategic cababilities
The C-130 Just Never Dies
The new engines and props yield a 24 percent increase in thrust and 15 percent increase in fuel efficiency. Whereas an L-100 could fly 1,800 nautical miles (NM) with a 35,000-lb. cargo load, an LM-100J will haul the same load 1,000 NM further.

 

[Rustic]

And Here We Are
Still Talking Efficiency On The Level Of Single Homes And Businesses
Not Powering An Entire Industrial Society Of 320 Million
Let Alone China
No Matter How Many Wind/Solar Farms Anyone Builds

Funny you should mention this. Any new construction of Commercial sites for the last 2 years have always included Solar arrays. Around here, we have sunshine almost year round. Even in the Winter time. This is why you will see Snow Skiers in burmuda shorts in Feb. The bulk of the snow and cloud cover happens at night so the day is usually clear skies or near clear skies. Leaving out Solar Arrays from new Commercial Construction is just plain stupid. Since you have to pay for a roof anyway, put solar arrays instead of roof tiles. It doesn't cost that much more even when you include the wiring and controls. You start getting your money back the day you throw the switch even if all you use them for is to power your Offices and outdoor lights.

But I have shown that Solar isn't the only thing that can be used. And Fusion will be here in the next 7 to 10 years which pretty well takes over for all other forms of electric generation except for Hydro, Solar and Wind. NG, Coal and Oil become forgotten.

Your original entry into this conversation was could we use Electric Power for Aircraft. The answer to that was, YES. They are already doing it. And by 2025, commuter flights will be electric power for seating of 10 to 50 people that are now using Jet Fuel. And that is a very safe prediction.

We are in a very exiting time right now. Energy Technology is making a huge leap. It's been a long time coming but like all other science evolutions, it happens in spurts. Welcome to the latest spurt.

Obviously you’re not speaking for all of America, many places in America solar is not feasible and won’t be for decades

Funny you should bring that up. They use Solar in the Arctic and the Antarctic even during the winter months when you might have only an hour or so of actual direct sunlight. They are experimenting to get ready for using it on Mars which will have about the same conditions as the Arctic for solar during the Arctic summer months. Something is better than nothing.

I’m for an all of the above, fossil fuels along with renewals is the way to go.
Cold turkey will not work

 

[Pilot1]

Right. The big gains in aircraft fuel-efficiency - large gains in the past 50 years - are due to aerodynamic design and lighter-weight construction materials.

A good rule of thumb, at least for the bug smasher I fly is that for every unit of drag, you need FOUR UNITS of Thrust to overcome it. Therefore, drag reduction is how you get the most gains. That being said, turbine engines have become much more efficient over the years

Wing efficiency, and airframe drag clean up are critical as well as engine efficiency.

 

[Rustic]

And Here We Are
Still Talking Efficiency On The Level Of Single Homes And Businesses
Not Powering An Entire Industrial Society Of 320 Million
Let Alone China
No Matter How Many Wind/Solar Farms Anyone Builds

Funny you should mention this. Any new construction of Commercial sites for the last 2 years have always included Solar arrays. Around here, we have sunshine almost year round. Even in the Winter time. This is why you will see Snow Skiers in burmuda shorts in Feb. The bulk of the snow and cloud cover happens at night so the day is usually clear skies or near clear skies. Leaving out Solar Arrays from new Commercial Construction is just plain stupid. Since you have to pay for a roof anyway, put solar arrays instead of roof tiles. It doesn't cost that much more even when you include the wiring and controls. You start getting your money back the day you throw the switch even if all you use them for is to power your Offices and outdoor lights.

But I have shown that Solar isn't the only thing that can be used. And Fusion will be here in the next 7 to 10 years which pretty well takes over for all other forms of electric generation except for Hydro, Solar and Wind. NG, Coal and Oil become forgotten.

Your original entry into this conversation was could we use Electric Power for Aircraft. The answer to that was, YES. They are already doing it. And by 2025, commuter flights will be electric power for seating of 10 to 50 people that are now using Jet Fuel. And that is a very safe prediction.

We are in a very exiting time right now. Energy Technology is making a huge leap. It's been a long time coming but like all other science evolutions, it happens in spurts. Welcome to the latest spurt.

how heavy are the batteries in you electric airplane? How much wing span is needed to carry that extra weight? You are also talking about large heavy electric motors to generate enough power to turn props at the needed RPMs. Then when it lands those huge batteries need recharging, where will that electricity come from?

New technology is great and we should pursue all alternative power sources, but we also need to be practical and not get deluded into thinking we can get off of fossil fuels in the near future.

The electric motor is actually smaller and lighter than the Avgas motor. And the batteries like the Lipo4 batteries are lighter than the Avgas tanks full. While the HP of the Avgas at sea level will be higher, as the altitude goes up, the HP of the Electric will exceed the HP of the Avgas engine. The only real advantage the Avgas rig has is range,not power.

Believe it or not, we reached the pinacle of development of the gas and diesel engine in the 1940s. They are doing nothing today that wasn't already done during WWII during the war effort. In Recip Engines (Inlines) turbochargers were already perfected, so were superchargers. They could get outstanding performance on 87 octane. All they are doing is just tweaking the WWII designs that were near perfect already.

Meanwhile, the Electric was forgotten for nearly 100 years. Just plain ignored. At one time, (1903) at the World Auto Show in Chicago, the number one shown engine was the diesel while the number two was the electric with the steam running a distance 3rd. There was only one gas powered engine represented. In just a few short years, the Gas was the dominate one with the Diesel running a distant second and the electric and the steam were no longer represented. While I realize that the steam had no future as a car or truck engine, the electric did have but was completely ignored for the next 100 years. Meanwhile, the gas and diesel had that time to develop. Out of Necessity, the Electric is now getting the attention it should have received over 100 years ago. And it's starting to compete directly with gas. In about 15 years, it's gone from experimental to actually competing on a limited level. Not bad, really. Give it another 5 years and it's going to be able to go head ot head. Remember, the Gas engine really can't develop any further than it already has since it's peaked. The Electric has not peaked by far.

Lol
Don’t fix what Ain’t broke...

 

[Daryl Hunt]

And Here We Are
Still Talking Efficiency On The Level Of Single Homes And Businesses
Not Powering An Entire Industrial Society Of 320 Million
Let Alone China
No Matter How Many Wind/Solar Farms Anyone Builds

Funny you should mention this. Any new construction of Commercial sites for the last 2 years have always included Solar arrays. Around here, we have sunshine almost year round. Even in the Winter time. This is why you will see Snow Skiers in burmuda shorts in Feb. The bulk of the snow and cloud cover happens at night so the day is usually clear skies or near clear skies. Leaving out Solar Arrays from new Commercial Construction is just plain stupid. Since you have to pay for a roof anyway, put solar arrays instead of roof tiles. It doesn't cost that much more even when you include the wiring and controls. You start getting your money back the day you throw the switch even if all you use them for is to power your Offices and outdoor lights.

But I have shown that Solar isn't the only thing that can be used. And Fusion will be here in the next 7 to 10 years which pretty well takes over for all other forms of electric generation except for Hydro, Solar and Wind. NG, Coal and Oil become forgotten.

Your original entry into this conversation was could we use Electric Power for Aircraft. The answer to that was, YES. They are already doing it. And by 2025, commuter flights will be electric power for seating of 10 to 50 people that are now using Jet Fuel. And that is a very safe prediction.

We are in a very exiting time right now. Energy Technology is making a huge leap. It's been a long time coming but like all other science evolutions, it happens in spurts. Welcome to the latest spurt.

Obviously you’re not speaking for all of America, many places in America solar is not feasible and won’t be for decades

Funny you should bring that up. They use Solar in the Arctic and the Antarctic even during the winter months when you might have only an hour or so of actual direct sunlight. They are experimenting to get ready for using it on Mars which will have about the same conditions as the Arctic for solar during the Arctic summer months. Something is better than nothing.

I’m for an all of the above, fossil fuels along with renewals is the way to go.
Cold turkey will not work

We have had 100 years to screw it up. We have had 50 years to work on the solution. It's not even close to becoming cold turkey. We have been making one step at a time since 2000. That's 18 years. We started out with just oil and coal and have been making strides for the last 50 years to include all other forms including NG, Propane, Nuclear, Solar, Wind and Electric. Just when do we start shutting down the tap on the original two that seem to be the largest contributor to the worst of the contributing to the bad stuff. We have come a very long way in the last 50 years but it can be done even better.

I think the real problem is, when do we make it a National Requirement like many think it should be instead of the National Crux getting in the way. Petro and coal got started by a National Push. Solar got a lot of help but there seems a push to stop pushing that. Then wind is in the cross hairs. We need the national push to get things done. Otherwise, nothing changes and we lose ground. We can no longer afford to lose ground. We are going to lose ground anyway. But just how much ground we lose can be changed.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

And Here We Are
Still Talking Efficiency On The Level Of Single Homes And Businesses
Not Powering An Entire Industrial Society Of 320 Million
Let Alone China
No Matter How Many Wind/Solar Farms Anyone Builds

Funny you should mention this. Any new construction of Commercial sites for the last 2 years have always included Solar arrays. Around here, we have sunshine almost year round. Even in the Winter time. This is why you will see Snow Skiers in burmuda shorts in Feb. The bulk of the snow and cloud cover happens at night so the day is usually clear skies or near clear skies. Leaving out Solar Arrays from new Commercial Construction is just plain stupid. Since you have to pay for a roof anyway, put solar arrays instead of roof tiles. It doesn't cost that much more even when you include the wiring and controls. You start getting your money back the day you throw the switch even if all you use them for is to power your Offices and outdoor lights.

But I have shown that Solar isn't the only thing that can be used. And Fusion will be here in the next 7 to 10 years which pretty well takes over for all other forms of electric generation except for Hydro, Solar and Wind. NG, Coal and Oil become forgotten.

Your original entry into this conversation was could we use Electric Power for Aircraft. The answer to that was, YES. They are already doing it. And by 2025, commuter flights will be electric power for seating of 10 to 50 people that are now using Jet Fuel. And that is a very safe prediction.

We are in a very exiting time right now. Energy Technology is making a huge leap. It's been a long time coming but like all other science evolutions, it happens in spurts. Welcome to the latest spurt.

how heavy are the batteries in you electric airplane? How much wing span is needed to carry that extra weight? You are also talking about large heavy electric motors to generate enough power to turn props at the needed RPMs. Then when it lands those huge batteries need recharging, where will that electricity come from?

New technology is great and we should pursue all alternative power sources, but we also need to be practical and not get deluded into thinking we can get off of fossil fuels in the near future.

The electric motor is actually smaller and lighter than the Avgas motor. And the batteries like the Lipo4 batteries are lighter than the Avgas tanks full. While the HP of the Avgas at sea level will be higher, as the altitude goes up, the HP of the Electric will exceed the HP of the Avgas engine. The only real advantage the Avgas rig has is range,not power.

Believe it or not, we reached the pinacle of development of the gas and diesel engine in the 1940s. They are doing nothing today that wasn't already done during WWII during the war effort. In Recip Engines (Inlines) turbochargers were already perfected, so were superchargers. They could get outstanding performance on 87 octane. All they are doing is just tweaking the WWII designs that were near perfect already.

Meanwhile, the Electric was forgotten for nearly 100 years. Just plain ignored. At one time, (1903) at the World Auto Show in Chicago, the number one shown engine was the diesel while the number two was the electric with the steam running a distance 3rd. There was only one gas powered engine represented. In just a few short years, the Gas was the dominate one with the Diesel running a distant second and the electric and the steam were no longer represented. While I realize that the steam had no future as a car or truck engine, the electric did have but was completely ignored for the next 100 years. Meanwhile, the gas and diesel had that time to develop. Out of Necessity, the Electric is now getting the attention it should have received over 100 years ago. And it's starting to compete directly with gas. In about 15 years, it's gone from experimental to actually competing on a limited level. Not bad, really. Give it another 5 years and it's going to be able to go head ot head. Remember, the Gas engine really can't develop any further than it already has since it's peaked. The Electric has not peaked by far.

Lol
Don’t fix what Ain’t broke...

It's already broken. It was broken the day the first belch came out of the first smoke stack and the first puff came out of the first tail pipe.

 

[Rustic]

And Here We Are
Still Talking Efficiency On The Level Of Single Homes And Businesses
Not Powering An Entire Industrial Society Of 320 Million
Let Alone China
No Matter How Many Wind/Solar Farms Anyone Builds

Funny you should mention this. Any new construction of Commercial sites for the last 2 years have always included Solar arrays. Around here, we have sunshine almost year round. Even in the Winter time. This is why you will see Snow Skiers in burmuda shorts in Feb. The bulk of the snow and cloud cover happens at night so the day is usually clear skies or near clear skies. Leaving out Solar Arrays from new Commercial Construction is just plain stupid. Since you have to pay for a roof anyway, put solar arrays instead of roof tiles. It doesn't cost that much more even when you include the wiring and controls. You start getting your money back the day you throw the switch even if all you use them for is to power your Offices and outdoor lights.

But I have shown that Solar isn't the only thing that can be used. And Fusion will be here in the next 7 to 10 years which pretty well takes over for all other forms of electric generation except for Hydro, Solar and Wind. NG, Coal and Oil become forgotten.

Your original entry into this conversation was could we use Electric Power for Aircraft. The answer to that was, YES. They are already doing it. And by 2025, commuter flights will be electric power for seating of 10 to 50 people that are now using Jet Fuel. And that is a very safe prediction.

We are in a very exiting time right now. Energy Technology is making a huge leap. It's been a long time coming but like all other science evolutions, it happens in spurts. Welcome to the latest spurt.

Obviously you’re not speaking for all of America, many places in America solar is not feasible and won’t be for decades

Funny you should bring that up. They use Solar in the Arctic and the Antarctic even during the winter months when you might have only an hour or so of actual direct sunlight. They are experimenting to get ready for using it on Mars which will have about the same conditions as the Arctic for solar during the Arctic summer months. Something is better than nothing.

I’m for an all of the above, fossil fuels along with renewals is the way to go.
Cold turkey will not work

We have had 100 years to screw it up. We have had 50 years to work on the solution. It's not even close to becoming cold turkey. We have been making one step at a time since 2000. That's 18 years. We started out with just oil and coal and have been making strides for the last 50 years to include all other forms including NG, Propane, Nuclear, Solar, Wind and Electric. Just when do we start shutting down the tap on the original two that seem to be the largest contributor to the worst of the contributing to the bad stuff. We have come a very long way in the last 50 years but it can be done even better.

I think the real problem is, when do we make it a National Requirement like many think it should be instead of the National Crux getting in the way. Petro and coal got started by a National Push. Solar got a lot of help but there seems a push to stop pushing that. Then wind is in the cross hairs. We need the national push to get things done. Otherwise, nothing changes and we lose ground. We can no longer afford to lose ground. We are going to lose ground anyway. But just how much ground we lose can be changed.

There nothing wrong with sticking to what works, fossil fuel technologies are being perfected. Solar is a lot further along than wind, wind had continuous set backs.