Reparations???

[Lesh]

Interesting question and I HOPE we can discuss it without the racial animus that usually accompanies the subject.
First things first let's understand and agree that that black folks WERE ripped from their culture and families and made slaves. That is something not easily overcome. In fact it's something that leaves a lasting scar.

Then let's understand that after we freed these people from slavery...that they underwent a century of Jim Crow laws that were not a lot different from the slavery they had been freed from and that that only ended 50 or so years ago.

And then lets understand that black folks STILL have to deal with the results of this. All one has to do is look on THIS fucking board to see that racism is STILL an issue. One that us white folks aren't affected by but black folks confront every day

So where does that leave us?

Clearly it's a difficult question. And no one running for President is proposing that we "cut a check" to "pay for this.

That's a HUGE understanding..

Someone has very clearly focused grouped "reparations" and found that people are against direct cash payments to "fix" this.

Again. No Presidential candidates are proposing that and that changes the discussion dramatically.

So what does that leave? What are the "reparations" being proposed?

I have heard NO actual proposals. NONE.

I happen to be a project manager who deals with Federal contracts. As part of satisfying the requirements for submitting bids, a contractor has to satisfy requirements for "attempting to acquire" sub contractors who fall into minority and women owned businesses. You don't have to fulfill the "required" 15%. You have to show that you "tried".

And the reason for that is that there simply aren't enough businesses that meet those requirements. Think about that. There are just not enough businesses owned by minority folks and women to meet that 15% requirement!

That's an issue...and that's a problem.

So how do we fix that?

Low interest/no interest loans and grants.

As a small business owner...I can tell you that those are simply not available to ANYONE. They are just not there for anyone and they would result in middle class business growth and job growth.

Do we target them at all low income businesses? Do we do that AND make an emphasis towards minority/women owned business?

I say we do ALL of that.

Small business is he engine of Democracy

And THAT is what Kamala Harris is talking about

I don't know what they are asking, and when I questioned you about it, you didn't know either.

Was that unclear in some way?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Interesting question and I HOPE we can discuss it without the racial animus that usually accompanies the subject.
First things first let's understand and agree that that black folks WERE ripped from their culture and families and made slaves. That is something not easily overcome. In fact it's something that leaves a lasting scar.

Then let's understand that after we freed these people from slavery...that they underwent a century of Jim Crow laws that were not a lot different from the slavery they had been freed from and that that only ended 50 or so years ago.

And then lets understand that black folks STILL have to deal with the results of this. All one has to do is look on THIS fucking board to see that racism is STILL an issue. One that us white folks aren't affected by but black folks confront every day

So where does that leave us?

Clearly it's a difficult question. And no one running for President is proposing that we "cut a check" to "pay for this.

That's a HUGE understanding..

Someone has very clearly focused grouped "reparations" and found that people are against direct cash payments to "fix" this.

Again. No Presidential candidates are proposing that and that changes the discussion dramatically.

So what does that leave? What are the "reparations" being proposed?

I have heard NO actual proposals. NONE.

I happen to be a project manager who deals with Federal contracts. As part of satisfying the requirements for submitting bids, a contractor has to satisfy requirements for "attempting to acquire" sub contractors who fall into minority and women owned businesses. You don't have to fulfill the "required" 15%. You have to show that you "tried".

And the reason for that is that there simply aren't enough businesses that meet those requirements. Think about that. There are just not enough businesses owned by minority folks and women to meet that 15% requirement!

That's an issue...and that's a problem.

So how do we fix that?

Low interest/no interest loans and grants.

As a small business owner...I can tell you that those are simply not available to ANYONE. They are just not there for anyone and they would result in middle class business growth and job growth.

Do we target them at all low income businesses? Do we do that AND make an emphasis towards minority/women owned business?

I say we do ALL of that.

Small business is he engine of Democracy

And THAT is what Kamala Harris is talking about

I don't know what they are asking, and when I questioned you about it, you didn't know either.

Was that unclear in some way?

It was very clear. You didn't know either. Without knowing, you insist it's not monetary reparations.

 

[Lesh]

It was very clear. You didn't know either. Without knowing, you insist it's not monetary reparations.

I hadda feeling that was too much for you to read...being more than twitter length

I even bolded the most relevant sentence

Again. No Presidential candidates are proposing that and that changes the discussion dramatically.

So what does that leave? What are the "reparations" being proposed?

I have heard NO actual proposals. NONE.

 

[Slade3200]

No I shouldn’t. I also don’t think that is an accurate comparison to this situation

It's an exact comparison. If you believe in reparations, then what you believe are that people today should be paying a debt for the actions of generations before them; people they've never met and probably never heard of.

I’m not in favor of blanket reparations. I’m open to hearing ideas and responding to them. I think affirmative action was a good idea in the 60s and 70s following the civil rights act, which I support as well. There were generations of people that were held back and restricted of opportunity for employment and education by our laws. It makes sense to provide a balancing factor to make up for that in order to right the scales. Not forever but for a period of time. Do you agree?

No I do not. I'm 58 years old and only as a child actually remember people being openly discriminated against. In other words the people that suffered that discrimination are long gone or very old now and likely on some sort of social program whether they contributed to it or not.

If it's one thing I think we can all agree on, this subject (which keeps coming up) is for political purposes only and will likely not result in anything. I believe that those of working age today have no issues they did not create for themselves. In the black community, their problem is not what happened to their father or grandfather. Their problem is single-family homes, lack of education by dropping out of school, and parent(s) who don't look over their children. In other words, their problems are self-made, not the result of people that lived before them, slavery or Jim Crow.

You are being extremely short sighted. For example. Generally speaking, which child has a better chance of going to college? A child from a high class family who’s parents and grandparents all went to college or a child from a poor family who’s parents didn’t complete high school? Simple question, please give a simple and direct answer

The child that has the best chance at going to college is the one who studied the hardest and got the better grades. It's not up to race, it's up to accomplishments.

Ok but we are talking about a society so take 1000 families from the first scenario and 1000 families from the second... what outcome do you think the results will show? We both know the answer. Just say it and then we can go from there.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It's an exact comparison. If you believe in reparations, then what you believe are that people today should be paying a debt for the actions of generations before them; people they've never met and probably never heard of.

I’m not in favor of blanket reparations. I’m open to hearing ideas and responding to them. I think affirmative action was a good idea in the 60s and 70s following the civil rights act, which I support as well. There were generations of people that were held back and restricted of opportunity for employment and education by our laws. It makes sense to provide a balancing factor to make up for that in order to right the scales. Not forever but for a period of time. Do you agree?

No I do not. I'm 58 years old and only as a child actually remember people being openly discriminated against. In other words the people that suffered that discrimination are long gone or very old now and likely on some sort of social program whether they contributed to it or not.

If it's one thing I think we can all agree on, this subject (which keeps coming up) is for political purposes only and will likely not result in anything. I believe that those of working age today have no issues they did not create for themselves. In the black community, their problem is not what happened to their father or grandfather. Their problem is single-family homes, lack of education by dropping out of school, and parent(s) who don't look over their children. In other words, their problems are self-made, not the result of people that lived before them, slavery or Jim Crow.

You are being extremely short sighted. For example. Generally speaking, which child has a better chance of going to college? A child from a high class family who’s parents and grandparents all went to college or a child from a poor family who’s parents didn’t complete high school? Simple question, please give a simple and direct answer

The child that has the best chance at going to college is the one who studied the hardest and got the better grades. It's not up to race, it's up to accomplishments.

Ok but we are talking about a society so take 1000 families from the first scenario and 1000 families from the second... what outcome do you think the results will show? We both know the answer. Just say it and then we can go from there.

Of course the lower income family stands less of a chance because of the family structure--not because of their race. Poorer white families face the same dilemma.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It was very clear. You didn't know either. Without knowing, you insist it's not monetary reparations.

I hadda feeling that was too much for you to read...being more than twitter length

I even bolded the most relevant sentence

Again. No Presidential candidates are proposing that and that changes the discussion dramatically.

So what does that leave? What are the "reparations" being proposed?

I have heard NO actual proposals. NONE.

Which is exactly what I said.

 

[Lesh]

Which is exactly what I said.

That none of the candidates have made actual proposals on this and absolutely none have mentioned "payments" at all?

That would be correct.

Now pretend otherwise...ghead

 

[Damaged Eagle]

If liberals weren't so historically, damnably IGNORANT, they would realize that EVERY group of people on this planet has been abused and brutalized at one point or another in history. ALL races have a bloody history, not simply the whites that liberals love to blame for everything. Hell, the biggest mass-murderer in recorded human history was NOT WHITE. He was an Asian named Mao Zedong. Human history is universally barbaric, no one race owns the ultimate monopoly on human rights atrocities. Which makes liberal "white guilt" nothing but arrogant, preening, virtue-signaling posturing from atop a golden pedestal.

We aren’t exactly talking about human history of the world. There are still people alive today who lived through Jim Crow and systemic discrimination through our laws. That’s worth a serious debate about how to rectify don’t you think?

Yet the ones I'm siting in my OP were not even in the United States and suffered any abuses such as slavery or those Jim Crow laws because they are immigrants who've arrived here after those issues...

What makes them eligible for Affirmative Action or any other program designed to make 'reparations' for those wrongs?

*****SMILE*****

 

[Damaged Eagle]

I'm white so should I expect "reparations" from England for the 800 years they oppressed, starved and brutalized my Paddy ancestors (who had to flee to America in 1800s)?

Did you have to deal with a century a Jim Crow laws?

Have the immigrants who've come here since then?

That's the topic line of the OP.

Why do we owe them any Affirmative Action or quotas based on race?

*****SMILE*****

 

[Lesh]

The OP is rambling nonsense.

NO one...NO ONE is considering reparations of any kind for voluntary immigrants. That's just plain stupid.

No one has mentioned it (besides the idiot OP)...so...yea.

You can ignore that bullshit

 

[Slade3200]

I’m not in favor of blanket reparations. I’m open to hearing ideas and responding to them. I think affirmative action was a good idea in the 60s and 70s following the civil rights act, which I support as well. There were generations of people that were held back and restricted of opportunity for employment and education by our laws. It makes sense to provide a balancing factor to make up for that in order to right the scales. Not forever but for a period of time. Do you agree?

No I do not. I'm 58 years old and only as a child actually remember people being openly discriminated against. In other words the people that suffered that discrimination are long gone or very old now and likely on some sort of social program whether they contributed to it or not.

If it's one thing I think we can all agree on, this subject (which keeps coming up) is for political purposes only and will likely not result in anything. I believe that those of working age today have no issues they did not create for themselves. In the black community, their problem is not what happened to their father or grandfather. Their problem is single-family homes, lack of education by dropping out of school, and parent(s) who don't look over their children. In other words, their problems are self-made, not the result of people that lived before them, slavery or Jim Crow.

You are being extremely short sighted. For example. Generally speaking, which child has a better chance of going to college? A child from a high class family who’s parents and grandparents all went to college or a child from a poor family who’s parents didn’t complete high school? Simple question, please give a simple and direct answer

The child that has the best chance at going to college is the one who studied the hardest and got the better grades. It's not up to race, it's up to accomplishments.

Ok but we are talking about a society so take 1000 families from the first scenario and 1000 families from the second... what outcome do you think the results will show? We both know the answer. Just say it and then we can go from there.

Of course the lower income family stands less of a chance because of the family structure--not because of their race. Poorer white families face the same dilemma.

Ok, thank you for recognizing that. Now you have to also recognize the fact that black family’s were held down for generations by our society and more importantly by our laws. When our system is responsible for holding back a race of people from receiving proper education or achieving wealth for generations and when you look at the after effects of what develops from that you can’t simply change the law and presume it is an even playing field. Do you understand why?

 

[Damaged Eagle]

View attachment 247558

Perhaps it's time to rid ourselves of a few government funded programs. Programs such as Affirmative Action and other things meant to supposedly make reparations to specific minority groups are pretty vague in my humble opinion. The blacks site that it's reparations for slavery and things that happened to violate their civil rights since that time. However today is not then and since then there have been a large number of new immigrants who have no justification to claim such reparations just because they happen to be from Africa and elsewhere.

In what way do the American people owe "reparations" or Affirmative Action to people who immigrated here after the Civil War, much less after the Civil Rights Acts of the 50's and 60's, just because a person has dark skin?

If these programs are meant as reparations and such then the person applying for said programs should have to prove that their families were citizens of the United States during those times.

Additionally if there are immigrants who have used these programs then they should be required to return said money to the United States with interest.

*****SMILE*****

Interesting question and I HOPE we can discuss it without the racial animus that usually accompanies the subject.
First things first let's understand and agree that that black folks WERE ripped from their culture and families and made slaves. That is something not easily overcome. In fact it's something that leaves a lasting scar.

Then let's understand that after we freed these people from slavery...that they underwent a century of Jim Crow laws that were not a lot different from the slavery they had been freed from and that that only ended 50 or so years ago.

And then lets understand that black folks STILL have to deal with the results of this. All one has to do is look on THIS fucking board to see that racism is STILL an issue. One that us white folks aren't affected by but black folks confront every day

So where does that leave us?

CLearly it's a difficult question. And no one running for President is proposing that we "cut a check" to "pay for this.

That's a HUGE understanding..

Someone has very clearly focused grouped "reparations" and found that people are against direct cash payments to "fix" this.

Again. No Presidential candidates are proposing that and that changes the discussion dramatically.

So what does that leave? What are the "reparations" being proposed?

I have heard NO actual proposals. NONE.

I happen to be a project manager who deals with Federal contracts. As part of satisfying the requirements for submitting bids, a contractor has to satisfy requirements for "attempting to acquire" sub contractors who fall into minority and women owned businesses. You don't have to fulfill the "required" 15%. You have to show that you "tried".

And the reason for that is that there simply aren't enough businesses that meet those requirements. Think about that. There are just not enough businesses owned by minority folks and women to meet that 15% requirement!

That's an issue...and that's a problem.

So how do we fix that?

Low interest/no interest loans and grants.

As a small business owner...I can tell you that those are simply not available to ANYONE. They are just not there for anyone and they would result in middle class business growth and job growth.

Do we target them at all low income businesses? Do we do that AND make an emphasis towards minority/women owned business?

I say we do ALL of that.

Small business is he engine of Democracy

And THAT is what Kamala Harris is talking about

Then they should only be available to those families that can prove their families were in the United States during those times.

However that's not the case because there are plenty of immigrants who have come here since then who are on those programs who are in my opinion not deserving to said 'reparations' such as affirmative action.

*****SMILE*****

 

[deannalw]

TOO THE REPARATIONS CROWD

View attachment 247569

I already winnered someone in this thread so now I feel like a cheater.

 

[Lesh]

Interesting question and I HOPE we can discuss it without the racial animus that usually accompanies the subject.
First things first let's understand and agree that that black folks WERE ripped from their culture and families and made slaves. That is something not easily overcome. In fact it's something that leaves a lasting scar.

Then let's understand that after we freed these people from slavery...that they underwent a century of Jim Crow laws that were not a lot different from the slavery they had been freed from and that that only ended 50 or so years ago.

And then lets understand that black folks STILL have to deal with the results of this. All one has to do is look on THIS fucking board to see that racism is STILL an issue. One that us white folks aren't affected by but black folks confront every day

So where does that leave us?

CLearly it's a difficult question. And no one running for President is proposing that we "cut a check" to "pay for this.

That's a HUGE understanding..

Someone has very clearly focused grouped "reparations" and found that people are against direct cash payments to "fix" this.

Again. No Presidential candidates are proposing that and that changes the discussion dramatically.

So what does that leave? What are the "reparations" being proposed?

I have heard NO actual proposals. NONE.

I happen to be a project manager who deals with Federal contracts. As part of satisfying the requirements for submitting bids, a contractor has to satisfy requirements for "attempting to acquire" sub contractors who fall into minority and women owned businesses. You don't have to fulfill the "required" 15%. You have to show that you "tried".

And the reason for that is that there simply aren't enough businesses that meet those requirements. Think about that. There are just not enough businesses owned by minority folks and women to meet that 15% requirement!

That's an issue...and that's a problem.

So how do we fix that?

Low interest/no interest loans and grants.

As a small business owner...I can tell you that those are simply not available to ANYONE. They are just not there for anyone and they would result in middle class business growth and job growth.

Do we target them at all low income businesses? Do we do that AND make an emphasis towards minority/women owned business?

I say we do ALL of that.

Small business is he engine of Democracy

And THAT is what Kamala Harris is talking about

 

[Damaged Eagle]

So you just proved yourself to be a lair or stupid.

Nothing in that mentions families selling family members into slavery.

And blaming blacks for selling their enemies from different tribes to ty to excuse white Americans from BUYING those slaves (thus creating that market) is ...disgusting and dishonest.

The SLAVES..the ones HERE...bear no responsibility for their condition.

Fail on all counts

There are no slaves HERE..... Other than wage slaves.

*****SMILE*****

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No I do not. I'm 58 years old and only as a child actually remember people being openly discriminated against. In other words the people that suffered that discrimination are long gone or very old now and likely on some sort of social program whether they contributed to it or not.

If it's one thing I think we can all agree on, this subject (which keeps coming up) is for political purposes only and will likely not result in anything. I believe that those of working age today have no issues they did not create for themselves. In the black community, their problem is not what happened to their father or grandfather. Their problem is single-family homes, lack of education by dropping out of school, and parent(s) who don't look over their children. In other words, their problems are self-made, not the result of people that lived before them, slavery or Jim Crow.

You are being extremely short sighted. For example. Generally speaking, which child has a better chance of going to college? A child from a high class family who’s parents and grandparents all went to college or a child from a poor family who’s parents didn’t complete high school? Simple question, please give a simple and direct answer

The child that has the best chance at going to college is the one who studied the hardest and got the better grades. It's not up to race, it's up to accomplishments.

Ok but we are talking about a society so take 1000 families from the first scenario and 1000 families from the second... what outcome do you think the results will show? We both know the answer. Just say it and then we can go from there.

Of course the lower income family stands less of a chance because of the family structure--not because of their race. Poorer white families face the same dilemma.

Ok, thank you for recognizing that. Now you have to also recognize the fact that black family’s were held down for generations by our society and more importantly by our laws. When our system is responsible for holding back a race of people from receiving proper education or achieving wealth for generations and when you look at the after effects of what develops from that you can’t simply change the law and presume it is an even playing field. Do you understand why?

Nobody is holding anybody back but themselves. What happened in generations before you has little to no effect on you today.

My father grew up poor, and not by today's definition. He lived in a house the size of a three car garage with his six siblings. They had no indoor plumbing. When they had to use the bathroom, it was outside in the backyard.

They were on welfare which back then meant one of the kids would pull the red wagon five miles to the fire station where they loaded it up with fruits and vegetables. My father had to quit school in 9th grade to help support the family.

Yet my father nor uncles and aunts ever spent a day in jail. Most of the men fought in wars, and eventually learned trades and raised families. Nothing was passed down to them like most white families during that time, and if we get anything, we will be the first generation to do so.

People come here from other countries, particularly the middle-east where they grew up in real poverty, and within a couple of years, they own their own businesses. They find the American dream. Some even become wealthy.

So I don't buy this stuff of generations before. Your life starts the day you were born, not when your grandfather was born. You didn't live his life, you live yours and make the best of it.

 

[Lesh]

Nobody is holding anybody back but themselves

Always said by white males

Statistics say otherwise.

There is a reason that I can't find enough women or minority owned businesses...and it's not that minorities or women aren't capable

 

[Slade3200]

If liberals weren't so historically, damnably IGNORANT, they would realize that EVERY group of people on this planet has been abused and brutalized at one point or another in history. ALL races have a bloody history, not simply the whites that liberals love to blame for everything. Hell, the biggest mass-murderer in recorded human history was NOT WHITE. He was an Asian named Mao Zedong. Human history is universally barbaric, no one race owns the ultimate monopoly on human rights atrocities. Which makes liberal "white guilt" nothing but arrogant, preening, virtue-signaling posturing from atop a golden pedestal.

We aren’t exactly talking about human history of the world. There are still people alive today who lived through Jim Crow and systemic discrimination through our laws. That’s worth a serious debate about how to rectify don’t you think?

Yet the ones I'm siting in my OP were not even in the United States and suffered any abuses such as slavery or those Jim Crow laws because they are immigrants who've arrived here after those issues...

What makes them eligible for Affirmative Action or any other program designed to make 'reparations' for those wrongs?

*****SMILE*****

I don’t know, I asked what modern day affirmative action or reparations laws you are speaking of but you didn’t answer.

 

[Slade3200]

You are being extremely short sighted. For example. Generally speaking, which child has a better chance of going to college? A child from a high class family who’s parents and grandparents all went to college or a child from a poor family who’s parents didn’t complete high school? Simple question, please give a simple and direct answer

The child that has the best chance at going to college is the one who studied the hardest and got the better grades. It's not up to race, it's up to accomplishments.

Ok but we are talking about a society so take 1000 families from the first scenario and 1000 families from the second... what outcome do you think the results will show? We both know the answer. Just say it and then we can go from there.

Of course the lower income family stands less of a chance because of the family structure--not because of their race. Poorer white families face the same dilemma.

Ok, thank you for recognizing that. Now you have to also recognize the fact that black family’s were held down for generations by our society and more importantly by our laws. When our system is responsible for holding back a race of people from receiving proper education or achieving wealth for generations and when you look at the after effects of what develops from that you can’t simply change the law and presume it is an even playing field. Do you understand why?

Nobody is holding anybody back but themselves. What happened in generations before you has little to no effect on you today.

My father grew up poor, and not by today's definition. He lived in a house the size of a three car garage with his six siblings. They had no indoor plumbing. When they had to use the bathroom, it was outside in the backyard.

They were on welfare which back then meant one of the kids would pull the red wagon five miles to the fire station where they loaded it up with fruits and vegetables. My father had to quit school in 9th grade to help support the family.

Yet my father nor uncles and aunts ever spent a day in jail. Most of the men fought in wars, and eventually learned trades and raised families. Nothing was passed down to them like most white families during that time, and if we get anything, we will be the first generation to do so.

People come here from other countries, particularly the middle-east where they grew up in real poverty, and within a couple of years, they own their own businesses. They find the American dream. Some even become wealthy.

So I don't buy this stuff of generations before. Your life starts the day you were born, not when your grandfather was born. You didn't live his life, you live yours and make the best of it.

You completely ignored my last statement and went on a rant about your family who was poor but not because of government suppression. Want to try again to address my post and stay on topic?

 

[Damaged Eagle]

I’m not in favor of blanket reparations. I’m open to hearing ideas and responding to them. I think affirmative action was a good idea in the 60s and 70s following the civil rights act, which I support as well. There were generations of people that were held back and restricted of opportunity for employment and education by our laws. It makes sense to provide a balancing factor to make up for that in order to right the scales. Not forever but for a period of time. Do you agree?

No I do not. I'm 58 years old and only as a child actually remember people being openly discriminated against. In other words the people that suffered that discrimination are long gone or very old now and likely on some sort of social program whether they contributed to it or not.

If it's one thing I think we can all agree on, this subject (which keeps coming up) is for political purposes only and will likely not result in anything. I believe that those of working age today have no issues they did not create for themselves. In the black community, their problem is not what happened to their father or grandfather. Their problem is single-family homes, lack of education by dropping out of school, and parent(s) who don't look over their children. In other words, their problems are self-made, not the result of people that lived before them, slavery or Jim Crow.

You are being extremely short sighted. For example. Generally speaking, which child has a better chance of going to college? A child from a high class family who’s parents and grandparents all went to college or a child from a poor family who’s parents didn’t complete high school? Simple question, please give a simple and direct answer

The child that has the best chance at going to college is the one who studied the hardest and got the better grades. It's not up to race, it's up to accomplishments.

Ok but we are talking about a society so take 1000 families from the first scenario and 1000 families from the second... what outcome do you think the results will show? We both know the answer. Just say it and then we can go from there.

Of course the lower income family stands less of a chance because of the family structure--not because of their race. Poorer white families face the same dilemma.

Unfortunately academic achievement does not guarantee a student a free ride through college like a sports scholarship does. Otherwise this country would be doing a lot better in the areas of science and technology because, at least some of, the poor would be willing to study harder for that goal.

*****SMILE*****