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Gawd, liberals are stupid!
The last Republican doofus obliterated a surplus.
NOTE THAT THE GDP/DEBT chart is different from the GDP/DEFICIT chart during the same time periods.
That could be significant! For instance, the 1940-41 GDP/Debt ratio peak was close to 100% while
the 1940 -41GDP/DEFICIT chart shows a much lower peak ratio near 30%.
The Deficit, in fact , has never been more than 30% of GDP and, notably, it is almost imperceptible on the graph during the Vietnam War years!
NOW, that idyllic period some call the "good 'ol days" has all but faded away in the face of Nixon's visit to China, NAFTA and other government efforts to undermine the American workforce
Actually the revenues dropped more like a trillion if compared to pre-crisis trend. But it must be Obama's fault since he signed the budget.
I don't think there is such a thing. Japan, for example, has debt to GDP ratio three times bigger than the US, yet they can borrow at lower interest than we do.
Also, it is very naive to view debt as some sort of evil. Debt is what makes our economy running. Even money are nothing more than IOUs (that is paying off all debt in an economy would destroy whole money stock). And it's not some recent invention, gold money 1000s years ago were no different.
Of course bad things may happen when some entity ends up with too much debt. That is why it makes sense for the government to try and reduce its debt load when it is safe to do so. But history shows that a country that borrows in its own currency can deal with very high debt loads -- much higher than what we have now.
Japan is good for it's debt. It's the largest creditor nation in the world with a huge trade surplus, second only to China. America is not. It's the largest debtor nation and a broke loser merely living off the charity of the rest of the world.
Until interest rates will be forced to rise. Then you're screwed.
Actually the revenues dropped more like a trillion if compared to pre-crisis trend. But it must be Obama's fault since he signed the budget.
Tax revenue decreasing in a recession...
I really don't understand why that would happen.
NOTE THAT THE GDP/DEBT chart is different from the GDP/DEFICIT chart during the same time periods.
That could be significant! For instance, the 1940-41 GDP/Debt ratio peak was close to 100% while
the 1940 -41GDP/DEFICIT chart shows a much lower peak ratio near 30%.
The Deficit, in fact , has never been more than 30% of GDP and, notably, it is almost imperceptible on the graph during the Vietnam War years!
AmazonTania said:Deficits are only but a small portion of the economy. Debt to GDP will always be larger on the granular. What you are trying to show doesn't really mean anything.
JQpublic1 said:NOW, that idyllic period some call the "good 'ol days" has all but faded away in the face of Nixon's visit to China, NAFTA and other government efforts to undermine the American workforce
AmazonTania said:No one is undermining the American workforce except the America people.
Really? Since when the rest of the world has become so charitable? Sorry, but I don't think you know what you are talking about.
And why interest rates would be "forced" to rise, and by whom? Why hasn't it happen already?
HAHAHA! After a few beers It really made sense at the time...What I was trying to show was the difference in revenue available during peak debt periods. With that info, it was my intent to provide a base for analyzing those differences; for instance by overlaying those periods of GDP/Debt peaks representing WW2 and those representing the Vietnam Era and then comparing them with their respective GDP/Deficit peaks I could then formulate questions as to why the shorter war(WW2) showed more of a spending curve than the much longer Vietnam Conflict. Ultimately, I wanted to apply that paradigm to our present day scenrio and look for a solution! Perhaps in my beer induced haze I did not quite present my data as intended... but....NOW you know the rest of the story! Thanks for at least giving me a chance to explain.
I think the off shoring of jobs has hurt the American workers more than any other single factor. NAFTA and Nixon's visit to China seems to have been instrumental in all but destroying our manufacturing base and thus the jobs provided by that base.
Perhaps a review of my controversial charts might be useful in plotting a rise in the National Deficit as tax revenue was lost when China began to take our manufacturing jobs and buy our debt through treasury Bonds! More IOUs to add to those already being generated by Social Security and MEDICARE!///clear enough?
Actually the revenues dropped more like a trillion if compared to pre-crisis trend. But it must be Obama's fault since he signed the budget.
Tax revenue decreasing in a recession...
I really don't understand why that would happen.
I hope you're joking
The last Republican doofus obliterated a surplus.
What surplus would that be?
The last Republican doofus obliterated a surplus.
What surplus would that be?
If you don't know you are not as bright as you think you are.
I am not sure I follow you here! You seem to be saying that the Gold Standard had something to do with the high National Debt and deficits of WWII but that the relatively mild debt and deficits incurred by the Vietnam conflict were due to a the absence of the Gold Standard!AmazonTania said:The economy was still under the Gold Standard during this time. In cases when money is tight, people and Foreign Banks will turn in their gold in exchange for dollars. During WWII, gold was turned in for the creating of new money and majority of it went into the war. This was generally not allowed to happen during the Vietnam war, up until the Gold Standard was abandoned in 1971.
As I've said, no one is destroying American manufacturing jobs except Americans.
American is the only developing nation in the world which really has this problem of exporting jobs to least productive nations which are still in the process of developing.
I am not sure I follow you here! You seem to be saying that the Gold Standard had something to do with the high National Debt and deficits of WWII but that the relatively mild debt and deficits incurred by the Vietnam conflict were due to a the absence of the Gold Standard!
I would certainly like to see some validating data to support that premise
Agreed! Who could possibly be responsible for off shoring American jobs BUT American manufacturers? How could you think I meant anything else after reading my post above?
Are you saying China is one of the least productive nations in the world?
And I don't think America is a developing nation... I think you might have had too many beers when you wrote that!
JQPublic1 said:Perhaps a review of my controversial charts might be useful in plotting a rise in the National Deficit as tax revenue was lost when China began to take our manufacturing jobs and buy our debt through treasury Bonds! More IOUs to add to those already being generated by Social Security and MEDICARE!///clear enough?
AmazonTania said:China hasn't taken anything. Jobs have gone away because America has decided that they no longer want to be competitive.
If America can't manufacture at it's current cost of manufacturing, then it shouldn't be in the business of manufacturing at all.
China also has the ability to purchase your debt through all the trading you have done with them. Not because the US actually exports to them, but because the United States is too broke and un-competitive that it would rather trade worthless paper, in exchange for Chinese exports.
No.What surplus would that be?
If you don't know you are not as bright as you think you are.
Have you ever seen a budget surplus which makes the public debt increase for 3 years in a row?
No.If you don't know you are not as bright as you think you are.
Have you ever seen a budget surplus which makes the public debt increase for 3 years in a row?
Debt held by the public relative to GDP rose rapidly again in the 1980s. President Ronald Reagan's economic policies lowered tax rates and increased military spending, while congressional Democrats held fast against attempts to reverse spending on social programs.[12][13] As a result, debt as a share of GDP increased from 26.2% in 1980 to 40.9% in 1988, and continued to rise during the presidency of George H. W. Bush, reaching 48.3% of GDP in 1992.[10][14]
Debt held by the public reached 49.5% of GDP at the beginning of President Clinton's first term. However, it fell to 34.5% of GDP by the end of Clinton's presidency due in part to decreased military spending, increased taxes (in 1990, 1993 and 1997), and increased tax revenue resulting from the Dot-com bubble.[10][11][15][16][17] The budget controls instituted in the 1990s successfully restrained fiscal action by the Congress and the President and together with economic growth contributed to the budget surpluses at the end of the decade.[18]
In the early 21st century, debt relative to GDP rose again due in part to the Bush tax cuts and increased military spending caused by the wars in the Middle-East and a new entitlement Medicare D program. During the presidency of George W. Bush, debt held by the public increased from $3.339 trillion in September 2001 to $6.369 trillion by the end of 2008,
National debt of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Without clarifying which Americans you are talking about your point is meaningless! ANd I will forgo China's brand of "competitiveness" anytime for living wages and a healthy environment.
What I see in your statement is an affinity for corporate greed. American companies have lost that jingoistic quality that made them loyal to their American workforce. Our economy
fares far better when the workforce has money to spend.
Now the factories of our our Corporate expatriates are relentlessly belching toxins into China's air and many are the catalysts behind some of China's most notorious sweatshops. Better thee than me!
In America, Labor is the highest cost associated with manufacturing. But with emerging technology, something that Americans are noted for, labor of all types may be less of a factor in production. Those offshore jobs might be coming home sooner than you think.
IMHO the key to our future success lies in education. I also think we ought to shut down immigration for a decade and close out borders except for tourists!
The United States is NOT broke!
And your "uncompetitive" remark drips with sarcasm but you really mean that American workers wanting a fair wage and healthy work environment are making our country uncompetitive! I disagree!
Obviously, U are NO United States Citizen although you might be from one of the Americas! Thanks GOD I live in the USA and not where you come from!
The problem is that Americans do too much spending. The spend on consumer goods which are not even produced in America. They spend without any regard of what the future may bring Even when they have less money to spend, they find a way to spend more. Americans need to start saving and start producing.
