Restaurants are adding labor surcharges to help offset minimum wage increases

[Skull Pilot]

Yup, no greatest generation or unions anymore, just greedy idiot GOP CEOs. That's why the gov't is the only hope for workers. $15 min. wage (by stages) and high top tax rates to get CEO pay under control...

You are totally ignorant to business if you think it works like that.

If low skill workers make more money, it doesn't affect the CEO pay one bit. The employer will cut hours, layoff people, increase prices for their products or services, or make employees pay more towards their healthcare benefits.

the vast vast vast majority of business don't have a CEO but these fucking idiots think that every little business with 4 or 5 employees has a CEO making 500 times what their employees do

Fucking clueless

Of course not, duh lol. My problem is with giant corps DUH.

and the very small percentage of CEOS have absolutely no effect on your pay

When they make 50 million a year (and pay little in taxes) they cause all kinds of problems, dupe.

how do you know how much they pay in taxes?

oh yeah you don't know

and I can guarantee it's probably more than you make in a year

 

[Skull Pilot]

so where did he cheat on his taxes like all your favorite democrat pols did?

Democrats pay taxes......Trump doesnt

And you know that how????????


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Trump admitted it

I don't recall that; at least nothing he mean seriously.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

He admitted it in a debate and bragged that not paying taxes makes him smart

well his tax attorneys are smart

 

[Skull Pilot]

Who says they're going to make any more? If they are collecting government handouts, they will work less hours and earn the same amount of money to keep them government goodies coming in.

these idiots also don't know the difference between qualifying for government handouts and actually needing government handouts

Libs tend to put the palms of their hands against their ears and sing aloud when they hear the truth.

Some of our customers use temporary help to check out the workers first and to have the flexibility during variable sales activities in their company. Many have told me when they get busy and ask the temps if the can work more hours, many refuse. Why? Because it cuts into their food stamp allowance. They must keep their income at a certain level to keep getting SNAP's cards.

Of course the company would never hire workers like that from the temp agency, so not only are these people financially holding themselves back because of government, they are also giving up an opportunity to gain full-time employment and get out of temporary services.

It's the same with these minimum wage workers. Give them a raise, and they will cut back from working 25 hours a week to 15 hours a week. What's accomplished by that?

No offense, but that's absolute greedy white Republican BULLSHITE! Most Workers take all the hours they can get. Y'all really do live in some bizarre greedy fantasy bubble. You seem to hate poor folks. It's pretty evil.

have you ever employed anyone?

Have you ever made a dozen phone calls to try to get someone in to cover a sick call and have no one say yes?

Most folks i've ever known, work as many hours available to them. They're far from being 'Lazy Welfare' folks. Y'all are demonizing people who are just struggling to get by. Hopefully one day you'll see the error of your ways.

so you've never employed anyone and had everyone you call to ask to come in say no

thanks for admitting that

and where did I call anyone lazy?

 

[Iceweasel]

The surcharge BS is just that, raise the price of the food, this surcharging people to death is a pretty deceitful way to make a dime. It's a way to get more money out of a customer.

It's just a lowdown dirty way to punish the 'slaves.' It's intended to turn the People against the Workers. But that's ok, Consumers have a lot more power these days. They can make immoral/unethical Businesses pay. Times have changed.

If the economy goes up, wages go up. Always has.

You cannot grasp that simple fact, hate is your substitute for thinking. If artificial wages worked why not mandate $50 minimum?

Again, more greedy white Republican 'Sky is Falling' exaggerations. Sorry man, but your fear mongering doesn't work with me. These folks aren't gonna get rich by making a few more dollars. They're good Americans just trying to get by.

You failed to answer the question and insulted instead. Why not make the business owner pay starting wages $50/hr to prove how good you are?

 

[Dschrute3]

these idiots also don't know the difference between qualifying for government handouts and actually needing government handouts

Libs tend to put the palms of their hands against their ears and sing aloud when they hear the truth.

Some of our customers use temporary help to check out the workers first and to have the flexibility during variable sales activities in their company. Many have told me when they get busy and ask the temps if the can work more hours, many refuse. Why? Because it cuts into their food stamp allowance. They must keep their income at a certain level to keep getting SNAP's cards.

Of course the company would never hire workers like that from the temp agency, so not only are these people financially holding themselves back because of government, they are also giving up an opportunity to gain full-time employment and get out of temporary services.

It's the same with these minimum wage workers. Give them a raise, and they will cut back from working 25 hours a week to 15 hours a week. What's accomplished by that?

No offense, but that's absolute greedy white Republican BULLSHITE! Most Workers take all the hours they can get. Y'all really do live in some bizarre greedy fantasy bubble. You seem to hate poor folks. It's pretty evil.

have you ever employed anyone?

Have you ever made a dozen phone calls to try to get someone in to cover a sick call and have no one say yes?

Most folks i've ever known, work as many hours available to them. They're far from being 'Lazy Welfare' folks. Y'all are demonizing people who are just struggling to get by. Hopefully one day you'll see the error of your ways.

so you've never employed anyone and had everyone you call to ask to come in say no

thanks for admitting that

and where did I call anyone lazy?

Obviously that happens. And they decline for various reasons. Some are valid reasons, and some aren't. But most Workers i've ever been around, accept as many hours as they can get.

So y'all greedy white Republicans are just demonizing to justify mistreating fellow Americans. It makes you feel better about it. If they're all 'Evil Lazy Welfare' folks, you feel good about mistreating them. It's hateful delusional thinking.

 

[Iceweasel]

Good. Would be about time the poor and middle class got a break.

Specifically, how would that help?

The minimum wage worker is qualified to mop floors. His/her hourly pay goes to $20.00 per hour. So from there, everyone's pay is increased a like rate. Accomplished...NOTHING. The three gallons of gas you could buy for $7.50 will now cost the floor mopper $20.00 and so on and so on. What has that $20.00 per hour accomplished Francois? ZIP, ZERO, NADA!

It produces a healthy middle class and working class that can supply the demand for a healthy economy DUHHHHHHHHH....

If everyone made a lot more everything would cost a lot more. DUUUUHHHHHH

 

[Iceweasel]

Libs tend to put the palms of their hands against their ears and sing aloud when they hear the truth.

Some of our customers use temporary help to check out the workers first and to have the flexibility during variable sales activities in their company. Many have told me when they get busy and ask the temps if the can work more hours, many refuse. Why? Because it cuts into their food stamp allowance. They must keep their income at a certain level to keep getting SNAP's cards.

Of course the company would never hire workers like that from the temp agency, so not only are these people financially holding themselves back because of government, they are also giving up an opportunity to gain full-time employment and get out of temporary services.

It's the same with these minimum wage workers. Give them a raise, and they will cut back from working 25 hours a week to 15 hours a week. What's accomplished by that?

No offense, but that's absolute greedy white Republican BULLSHITE! Most Workers take all the hours they can get. Y'all really do live in some bizarre greedy fantasy bubble. You seem to hate poor folks. It's pretty evil.

have you ever employed anyone?

Have you ever made a dozen phone calls to try to get someone in to cover a sick call and have no one say yes?

Most folks i've ever known, work as many hours available to them. They're far from being 'Lazy Welfare' folks. Y'all are demonizing people who are just struggling to get by. Hopefully one day you'll see the error of your ways.

so you've never employed anyone and had everyone you call to ask to come in say no

thanks for admitting that

and where did I call anyone lazy?

Obviously that happens. And they decline for various reasons. Some are valid reasons, and some aren't. But most Workers i've ever been around, accept as many hours as they can get.

So y'all greedy white Republicans are just demonizing to justify mistreating fellow Americans. It makes you feel better about it. If they're all 'Evil Lazy Welfare' folks, you feel good about mistreating them. It's hateful delusional thinking.

You're a racist hate monger. Gee, I think I'll use your economic philosophy!

 

[Dschrute3]

The surcharge BS is just that, raise the price of the food, this surcharging people to death is a pretty deceitful way to make a dime. It's a way to get more money out of a customer.

It's just a lowdown dirty way to punish the 'slaves.' It's intended to turn the People against the Workers. But that's ok, Consumers have a lot more power these days. They can make immoral/unethical Businesses pay. Times have changed.

If the economy goes up, wages go up. Always has.

You cannot grasp that simple fact, hate is your substitute for thinking. If artificial wages worked why not mandate $50 minimum?

Again, more greedy white Republican 'Sky is Falling' exaggerations. Sorry man, but your fear mongering doesn't work with me. These folks aren't gonna get rich by making a few more dollars. They're good Americans just trying to get by.

You failed to answer the question and insulted instead. Why not make the business owner pay starting wages $50/hr to prove how good you are?

Like i said, just more bizarre greedy white Republican exaggerating. The sky won't fall if we pay our struggling fellow Americans a few more bucks. Your fear mongering doesn't fly with me.

 

[Dschrute3]

No offense, but that's absolute greedy white Republican BULLSHITE! Most Workers take all the hours they can get. Y'all really do live in some bizarre greedy fantasy bubble. You seem to hate poor folks. It's pretty evil.

have you ever employed anyone?

Have you ever made a dozen phone calls to try to get someone in to cover a sick call and have no one say yes?

Most folks i've ever known, work as many hours available to them. They're far from being 'Lazy Welfare' folks. Y'all are demonizing people who are just struggling to get by. Hopefully one day you'll see the error of your ways.

so you've never employed anyone and had everyone you call to ask to come in say no

thanks for admitting that

and where did I call anyone lazy?

Obviously that happens. And they decline for various reasons. Some are valid reasons, and some aren't. But most Workers i've ever been around, accept as many hours as they can get.

So y'all greedy white Republicans are just demonizing to justify mistreating fellow Americans. It makes you feel better about it. If they're all 'Evil Lazy Welfare' folks, you feel good about mistreating them. It's hateful delusional thinking.

You're a racist hate monger. Gee, I think I'll use your economic philosophy!

Aw, all done beating Edith? Back to your recliner, Archie?

 

[Mr Natural]

The surcharge BS is just that, raise the price of the food, this surcharging people to death is a pretty deceitful way to make a dime. It's a way to get more money out of a customer.

It's just a lowdown dirty way to punish the 'slaves.' It's intended to turn the People against the Workers. But that's ok, Consumers have a lot more power these days. They can make immoral/unethical Businesses pay. Times have changed.

If the economy goes up, wages go up. Always has.

You cannot grasp that simple fact, hate is your substitute for thinking. If artificial wages worked why not mandate $50 minimum?

Again, more greedy white Republican 'Sky is Falling' exaggerations. Sorry man, but your fear mongering doesn't work with me. These folks aren't gonna get rich by making a few more dollars. They're good Americans just trying to get by.

You failed to answer the question and insulted instead. Why not make the business owner pay starting wages $50/hr to prove how good you are?

Like i said, just more bizarre greedy white Republican exaggerating. The sky won't fall if we pay our struggling fellow Americans a few more bucks. Your fear mongering doesn't fly with me.

I sure hope that the petty douchebags bitching about overpaid workers are employers and not employees.

 

[Dschrute3]

It's just a lowdown dirty way to punish the 'slaves.' It's intended to turn the People against the Workers. But that's ok, Consumers have a lot more power these days. They can make immoral/unethical Businesses pay. Times have changed.

If the economy goes up, wages go up. Always has.

You cannot grasp that simple fact, hate is your substitute for thinking. If artificial wages worked why not mandate $50 minimum?

Again, more greedy white Republican 'Sky is Falling' exaggerations. Sorry man, but your fear mongering doesn't work with me. These folks aren't gonna get rich by making a few more dollars. They're good Americans just trying to get by.

You failed to answer the question and insulted instead. Why not make the business owner pay starting wages $50/hr to prove how good you are?

Like i said, just more bizarre greedy white Republican exaggerating. The sky won't fall if we pay our struggling fellow Americans a few more bucks. Your fear mongering doesn't fly with me.

I sure hope that the petty douchebags bitching about overpaid workers are employers and not employees.

Some are employers, but others are just confused hateful Republicans who don't know any better. They're ignorant.

 

[Iceweasel]

have you ever employed anyone?

Have you ever made a dozen phone calls to try to get someone in to cover a sick call and have no one say yes?

Most folks i've ever known, work as many hours available to them. They're far from being 'Lazy Welfare' folks. Y'all are demonizing people who are just struggling to get by. Hopefully one day you'll see the error of your ways.

so you've never employed anyone and had everyone you call to ask to come in say no

thanks for admitting that

and where did I call anyone lazy?

Obviously that happens. And they decline for various reasons. Some are valid reasons, and some aren't. But most Workers i've ever been around, accept as many hours as they can get.

So y'all greedy white Republicans are just demonizing to justify mistreating fellow Americans. It makes you feel better about it. If they're all 'Evil Lazy Welfare' folks, you feel good about mistreating them. It's hateful delusional thinking.

You're a racist hate monger. Gee, I think I'll use your economic philosophy!

Aw, all done beating Edith? Back to your recliner, Archie?

Who would hire you? You're unemployable.

 

[Dschrute3]

Most folks i've ever known, work as many hours available to them. They're far from being 'Lazy Welfare' folks. Y'all are demonizing people who are just struggling to get by. Hopefully one day you'll see the error of your ways.

so you've never employed anyone and had everyone you call to ask to come in say no

thanks for admitting that

and where did I call anyone lazy?

Obviously that happens. And they decline for various reasons. Some are valid reasons, and some aren't. But most Workers i've ever been around, accept as many hours as they can get.

So y'all greedy white Republicans are just demonizing to justify mistreating fellow Americans. It makes you feel better about it. If they're all 'Evil Lazy Welfare' folks, you feel good about mistreating them. It's hateful delusional thinking.

You're a racist hate monger. Gee, I think I'll use your economic philosophy!

Aw, all done beating Edith? Back to your recliner, Archie?

Who would hire you? You're unemployable.

Just another greedy white Republican delusion. Y'all really do have problems. All American Workers aren't 'Evil Lazy Welfare' folks. Y'all have just created that Boogeyman in your warped minds. It's a way for you to justify mistreating your fellow Americans.

I mean if they're all 'Evil Lazy Welfare' folks, than it's perfectly ok to abuse them, right? Y'all are consumed with greed. I really do hope you come around and see the light someday. I really do.

 

[francoHFW]

The surcharge BS is just that, raise the price of the food, this surcharging people to death is a pretty deceitful way to make a dime. It's a way to get more money out of a customer.

To pay for higher pay of employees. GOOD.

I am glad they get higher wages, I'm not against workers getting more pay, just put it in the cost of the food prices, why the surcharge? Raise your damn prices 3%-4%, don't be a chicken shit and play games with your customers.

What difference does it make? lol

Huge difference, it is good to know the price up front. You give a person a price and then add all sorts of taxes and surcharges and the person winds up paying an extra 15-20%. Tell me about your $50 cell phone plan, when you pay $65 a month for it.

The OP says it's 3-4%. No big

I know successful guys too who should have never went to college. All they did was start their own business.

I'm glad I went to college. Makes it a lot easier to get a job.

Well, in the case of my waiter, that's not what happened. When my daughter turned 21 she moved to New York. She couldn't get a job because of all the college grads waiting and bussing tables, many with advanced degrees...

Your waiter might be sorry one day. Have you ever been a waiter? I'd rather be an electrical engineer.

And that would be great, but the reality is that the one job offer he got in New York barely would've paid him a living wage for New York.

My best friend graduated from the University of Rochester (New York) with an advanced degree in neurobiology. He works as a software designer now when he's not touring as a guitar player...

And everyone inflates their salary. Always take half off what someone tells you they make.

I based my comment on what I tipped him and on what I've seen as customary in high-end restaurants. It's not unusual to see four figure checks in a restaurant like this with a large party. Four figure checks carry rather sizable tips. The only people leaving a $20 tip in a place like this are people who want to ensure they get shitty service the next time through.

When our waiter said he had no desire to give up his waiter gig, I had no reason to doubt him...

Groveling before our ridiculously bloated rich is not a bad idea after 35 years of Reaganism...see sig.

Wow, Bubba and Obama are Reaganites. Who knew?

No, they were totally obstructed. Duh. At least no GOP corrupt bubbles under them, and intelligent foreign policy. Reaganism rolls on, dupe.

 

[francoHFW]

Then keep doing that. Why the hell should it be everyone else's problem to make you feel better?

We should be looking out for our fellow Americans. Pay em a living wage. It'll get em off the Government Entitlements, and they'll feel they're worth something.

The average Republican approach on wages borders on 'Evil.' Yet most of them consider themselves 'Good Christians.' Our Minimum Wage is truly embarrassing. The rest of the world can't believe such a wealthy nation would treat its People so poorly.

We don't, you just stupidly think so. Most people are not making minimum wage because they've been working for a while. Unlike you I lived within my means and didn't expect my neighbor to share his earnings so I could live the same.

Wages aren't going up until the economy goes up. The liberal's policies (not party) suppresses growth. More jobs=more opportunities=better pay. Your mindset demonstrates you might have been a party member but you were never a conservative.

If 'most people' aren't making Minimum Wage, what's the harm in raising it?

Many industries pay scales are tied to the minimum wage. If you increase the minimum wage, salaries above the minimum wage are forced to be raised also.

To say nothing of the fact the over half the workforce makes $20/hr or less. All of them are going to demand raises too when they go from comfortably twice the MW to just a dollar or two above it.

GOOD. About time.

 

[Iceweasel]

so you've never employed anyone and had everyone you call to ask to come in say no

thanks for admitting that

and where did I call anyone lazy?

Obviously that happens. And they decline for various reasons. Some are valid reasons, and some aren't. But most Workers i've ever been around, accept as many hours as they can get.

So y'all greedy white Republicans are just demonizing to justify mistreating fellow Americans. It makes you feel better about it. If they're all 'Evil Lazy Welfare' folks, you feel good about mistreating them. It's hateful delusional thinking.

You're a racist hate monger. Gee, I think I'll use your economic philosophy!

Aw, all done beating Edith? Back to your recliner, Archie?

Who would hire you? You're unemployable.

Just another greedy white Republican delusion. Y'all really do have problems. All American Workers aren't 'Evil Lazy Welfare' folks. Y'all have just created that Boogeyman in your warped minds. It's a way for you to justify mistreating your fellow Americans.

I mean if they're all 'Evil Lazy Welfare' folks, than it's perfectly ok to abuse them, right? Y'all are consumed with greed. I really do hope you come around and see the light someday. I really do.

I really hope you learn how to read someday. When you do, post where I said all that.

 

[Dschrute3]

Obviously that happens. And they decline for various reasons. Some are valid reasons, and some aren't. But most Workers i've ever been around, accept as many hours as they can get.

So y'all greedy white Republicans are just demonizing to justify mistreating fellow Americans. It makes you feel better about it. If they're all 'Evil Lazy Welfare' folks, you feel good about mistreating them. It's hateful delusional thinking.

You're a racist hate monger. Gee, I think I'll use your economic philosophy!

Aw, all done beating Edith? Back to your recliner, Archie?

Who would hire you? You're unemployable.

Just another greedy white Republican delusion. Y'all really do have problems. All American Workers aren't 'Evil Lazy Welfare' folks. Y'all have just created that Boogeyman in your warped minds. It's a way for you to justify mistreating your fellow Americans.

I mean if they're all 'Evil Lazy Welfare' folks, than it's perfectly ok to abuse them, right? Y'all are consumed with greed. I really do hope you come around and see the light someday. I really do.

I really hope you learn how to read someday. When you do, post where I said all that.

You've invented this 'Evil Lazy Welfare' Boogeyman in your greedy little minds. It isn't representative of most American Workers. I assure you, most American Workers aren't that Boogeyman. They're just decent folks struggling to get by.

 

[francoHFW]

You are totally ignorant to business if you think it works like that.

If low skill workers make more money, it doesn't affect the CEO pay one bit. The employer will cut hours, layoff people, increase prices for their products or services, or make employees pay more towards their healthcare benefits.

the vast vast vast majority of business don't have a CEO but these fucking idiots think that every little business with 4 or 5 employees has a CEO making 500 times what their employees do

Fucking clueless

Of course not, duh lol. My problem is with giant corps DUH.

and the very small percentage of CEOS have absolutely no effect on your pay

When they make 50 million a year (and pay little in taxes) they cause all kinds of problems, dupe.

how do you know how much they pay in taxes?

oh yeah you don't know

and I can guarantee it's probably more than you make in a year

I read facts and journalism from IRS sources, DUH dupe.

 

[francoHFW]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjhxNjc39bSAhUo0oMKHREvB9gQFggrMAU&url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/09/19/heres-why-the-47-percent-argument-is-an-abuse-of-tax-data/&usg=AFQjCNE_8LZl_VB-o4FAbNsJrxLxLCPy8g&sig2=uy0aF6Qfav3OEFdmDiIHbA

At the heart of the debate over "the 47 percent" is an awful abuse of tax data.

This entire conversation is the result of a (largely successful) effort to redefine the debate over taxes from "how much in taxes do you pay" to "how much in federal income taxes do you pay?" This is good framing if you want to cut taxes on the rich. It's bad framing if you want to have even a basic understanding of who pays how much in taxes.

There's a reason some would prefer that more limited conversation. For most Americans, payroll and state and local taxes make up the majority of their tax bill. The federal income tax, by contrast, is our most progressive tax -- it's the tax we've designed to place the heaviest burden on the rich while bypassing the poor. And we've done that, again, because the working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.

But most people don't know very much about the tax code. And the federal income tax is still our most famous tax. So when they hear that half of Americans aren't paying federal income taxes, they're outraged -- even if they're among the folks who have a net negative tax burden! After all, they know they're paying taxes, and there's no reason for normal human beings to assume that the taxes getting taken out of their paycheck every week and some of the taxes they pay at the end of the year aren't classified as "federal income taxes."

Confining the discussion to the federal income tax plays another role, too: It makes the tax code look much more progressive than it actually is.

Take someone who makes $4 million dollars a year and someone who makes $40,000 a year. The person making $4 million dollars, assuming he's not doing some Romney-esque planning, is paying a 35 percent tax on most of that money. The person making $40,000 is probably paying no income tax at all. So that makes the system look really unfair to the rich guy.

That's the basic analysis of the 47 percent line. And it's a basic analysis that serves a purpose: It makes further tax cuts for the rich sound more reasonable.

But what if we did the same thing for the payroll tax? Remember, the payroll tax only applies to first $110,100 or so, our rich friends is only paying payroll taxes on 2.7 percent of his income. The guy making $40,000? He's paying payroll taxes on every dollar of his income. Now who's not getting a fair shake?

Which is why, if you want to understand who's paying what in taxes, you don't want to just look at federal income taxes, or federal payroll taxes, or state sales taxes -- you want to look at total taxes. And, luckily, the tax analysis group Citizens for Tax Justice keeps those numbers. So here is total taxes -- which includes corporate taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, state sales taxes, and more -- paid by different income groups and broken into federal and state and local burdens:

As you can see, the poorer you are, the more state and local taxes bite into your income. As you get richer, those taxes recede, and you're mainly getting hit be federal taxes. So that's another lesson: When you omit state and local taxes from your analysis, you're omitting the taxes that hit lower-income taxpayers hardest.

 

[francoHFW]

You are totally ignorant to business if you think it works like that.

If low skill workers make more money, it doesn't affect the CEO pay one bit. The employer will cut hours, layoff people, increase prices for their products or services, or make employees pay more towards their healthcare benefits.

the vast vast vast majority of business don't have a CEO but these fucking idiots think that every little business with 4 or 5 employees has a CEO making 500 times what their employees do

Fucking clueless

Of course not, duh lol. My problem is with giant corps DUH.

and the very small percentage of CEOS have absolutely no effect on your pay

When they make 50 million a year (and pay little in taxes) they cause all kinds of problems, dupe.

how do you know how much they pay in taxes?

oh yeah you don't know

and I can guarantee it's probably more than you make in a year

Like that matters, Pub dupe. They pay less %wise and end up with all the new wealth, dope
At the heart of the debate over "the 47 percent" is an awful abuse of tax data.

This entire conversation is the result of a (largely successful) effort to redefine the debate over taxes from "how much in taxes do you pay" to "how much in federal income taxes do you pay?" This is good framing if you want to cut taxes on the rich. It's bad framing if you want to have even a basic understanding of who pays how much in taxes.

There's a reason some would prefer that more limited conversation. For most Americans, payroll and state and local taxes make up the majority of their tax bill. The federal income tax, by contrast, is our most progressive tax -- it's the tax we've designed to place the heaviest burden on the rich while bypassing the poor. And we've done that, again, because the working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.

But most people don't know very much about the tax code. And the federal income tax is still our most famous tax. So when they hear that half of Americans aren't paying federal income taxes, they're outraged -- even if they're among the folks who have a net negative tax burden! After all, they know they're paying taxes, and there's no reason for normal human beings to assume that the taxes getting taken out of their paycheck every week and some of the taxes they pay at the end of the year aren't classified as "federal income taxes."

Confining the discussion to the federal income tax plays another role, too: It makes the tax code look much more progressive than it actually is.

Take someone who makes $4 million dollars a year and someone who makes $40,000 a year. The person making $4 million dollars, assuming he's not doing some Romney-esque planning, is paying a 35 percent tax on most of that money. The person making $40,000 is probably paying no income tax at all. So that makes the system look really unfair to the rich guy.

That's the basic analysis of the 47 percent line. And it's a basic analysis that serves a purpose: It makes further tax cuts for the rich sound more reasonable.

But what if we did the same thing for the payroll tax? Remember, the payroll tax only applies to first $110,100 or so, our rich friends is only paying payroll taxes on 2.7 percent of his income. The guy making $40,000? He's paying payroll taxes on every dollar of his income. Now who's not getting a fair shake?

Which is why, if you want to understand who's paying what in taxes, you don't want to just look at federal income taxes, or federal payroll taxes, or state sales taxes -- you want to look at total taxes. And, luckily, the tax analysis group Citizens for Tax Justice keeps those numbers. So here is total taxes -- which includes corporate taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, state sales taxes, and more -- paid by different income groups and broken into federal and state and local burdens:



As you can see, the poorer you are, the more state and local taxes bite into your income. As you get richer, those taxes recede, and you're mainly getting hit be federal taxes. So that's another lesson: When you omit state and local taxes from your analysis, you're omitting the taxes that hit lower-income taxpayers hardest.