Right wing militia detains 200 migrants at gun point on New Mexico!! HELL YEAH!

[Porter Rockwell]

Since Correll keeps typing and ignoring my challenges, I will keep repeating them:

America has had foreigners regulated since the Mayflower hit the shores of the New World in 1620. However, this process has been done by different levels of government at different times. From your own article:

"The federal government assumed control of immigration on April 18, 1890"

Here are the serious questions for you Correll:

A) Where, in the Constitution, does the federal government have the authority to tell the states who can and cannot come to that respective state?

B) PRIOR to 1890 the federal government did not have control over immigration. Obviously if someone were regulating the flow of foreigners and it was not the federal government, somebody did it for that period between 1789 and 1890 A FULL CENTURY OF REGULATION WITHOUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BY YOUR OWN LINK!

C) HOW did the federal government, after a century end up controlling the flow of foreigners? Which Amendment changed that?

 

[koshergrl]

Since Correll keeps typing and ignoring my challenges, I will keep repeating them:

America has had foreigners regulated since the Mayflower hit the shores of the New World in 1620. However, this process has been done by different levels of government at different times. From your own article:

"The federal government assumed control of immigration on April 18, 1890"

Here are the serious questions for you Correll:

A) Where, in the Constitution, does the federal government have the authority to tell the states who can and cannot come to that respective state?

B) PRIOR to 1890 the federal government did not have control over immigration. Obviously if someone were regulating the flow of foreigners and it was not the federal government, somebody did it for that period between 1789 and 1890 A FULL CENTURY OF REGULATION WITHOUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BY YOUR OWN LINK!

C) HOW did the federal government, after a century end up controlling the flow of foreigners? Which Amendment changed that?

Shut the hell up, you're just a brainwashed, lying dupe.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

1) You are wrong. The United States Supreme Court RULED that being in the United States is not a crime. Furthermore if the American people did not want them here, they would not hire to them, sell to them, buy from them, or do business with anyone that does. We, do, however, and the majority of the American people have proven your statement to be an absolute lie and you can't accept it

2) Our Constitution cannot survive the repeal of the Bill of Rights

3) You can make all the presuppositions you want and keep that open borders lie going, but repeating it over and over won't make it true. Your wishes do not reflect the will of the majority - and YOU have argued for democracy ever since you and I first tangled. FWIW - I'm not a democrat like you and I know what it would take to rectify the current situation

4) On all the key issues Trump has lost his ass in court; he did not come up with a plan to make Mexico pay; Trump then tried to take away from the military AND seniors thereby creating even MORE opposition to his idea. He did that on purpose.

1.a. I do not know what legal travesty you are referring to, but a foreigner who entered here against our laws is breaking the laws by being here. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar or a fool.

1b. The American people have a process by which to change the law if they want the Open Border you describe. They have not. YOur argument that they support the presence of people that are here illegally does not make any sense.


2. You made that point. I responded. That you ignored my response and reasserted your position is the logical fallacy of Proof by Assertion. You just admitted that you cannot refute my points, and that you know my point about the Right of Self Determination is correct.


3. My description of the behavior of you and others like you, is not an assumption, but a observation of your behavior. Your denial of open border types is not credible.


4. Your speculation about what Trump is thinking is noted. My point about his platform being the most aggressive on this issue stands.

1) Correll, are you a fucking idiot? A foreigner is NOT committing a crime by law by being here. It is strictly a civil matter. WTF? Are you completely STUPID? You are wrong and there is no argument here

2) What? That made even less sense the second time. If you think you're in a formal debate, you lost that eons ago. WTF are you saying?

3) Denial of what you cannot prove exists? You can't even give an example. You want a militarized border and you want to make a blanket accusation your dumb ass cannot prove. Like I said, if you like walls and fences so damn much, try prison... maybe a mental facility (that's probably where you belong)

4) I don't speculate about Trump. Past behavior is a good indicator of future performance. Keep that duly noted.

1. Your support of the illegals is noted. Why do you care more for their interests than the interests and rights of your fellow citizens?

2. You made a claim and when challenged, all you did was make the claim again. That is an admission that you cannot refute my counterpoints. That is true regardless of the level of formality.

3. Your desire to allow foreigners to flow into our nation unchecked and unvetted, while denying that there are open border people, is a sign of irrationality on your part.

4. Trump has been more aggressive on the issue of immigration, legal and illegal than anyone in living memory. That is current behavior, and you are attacking him for it.

1) Your inability to reason and the stupid shit you say that only cowards will say and only when they don't have to be held accountable (as in with their real name or in a public setting) is duly noted. As for me personally, I have a ministry where I try to find people that want a second chance and are willing to work for it. It isn't a handout; they work and go to school and / or get job training. We help. What are you doing in that regard?

2) What claim do you allege that has not been addressed a dozen times? If I have been asked and addressed it, you better hope that we don't address it again here lest you be branded a liar by your own words

3) This absolute horseshit of "unchecked and unvetted" foreigners is nutcase neo-Nazi HORSESHIT. If a foreign country wants to send you a bad apple, they sure as Hell aren't going to tell you. Mexico has printed up comic books instructing their citizens how to avoid our border patrol. Only an idiot would give their background check info any credibility.

OTOH, since we have the 14th Amendment, many Americans are kept out of jobs for doing things that ARE NOT recorded in foreign countries (i.e. domestic family problems, drug / alcohol convictions, etc.) A lot of things that are felonies in the U.S. aren't crimes in many other countries. The ONLY people you're hurting are Americans

4) Trump has given you the illusion that he's doing something and each time his proposals get shot down, it sets a nasty precedent for our future (YOUR future and mine.) A good example is legislative fiat. Kamala Harris has already stated if elected she will use the same misuse of Executive Powers to confiscate firearms in the U.S.

You're never going to catch on to the way political psychology, political warfare, psychopolitics, and legal precedents are used so this is a waste of time.

It's a waste of time for you, this is true. Because you're a brainwashed leftist dolt.

I want to see infrastructure, we all do, specifically because we need prisons and nuthouses to lodge you and your buddies.

Correll under another name. I'm no leftist and nobody's dolt. You can create as many profiles as you deem necessary.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

David Duke organizes Border Watch in 1977:

That time David Duke and KKK patrolled the Mexican border…

David Duke and Donald Trump both belonged to the Reform Party at the same time, which demonstrates a unity of ideology:

“Duke joined the Reform Party in 1999 while working for Pat Buchanan's 2000 presidential campaign”

David Duke - Wikipedia

“Donald Trump's presidential campaign of 2000 for the nomination of the Reform Party began when real estate magnate Donald Trump of New York announced the creation of a presidential exploratory committee on the October 8, 1999 edition of Larry King Live”

Donald Trump 2000 presidential campaign - Wikipedia

The Real David Duke This info will become very important to the subject



Trump plays stupid and tries to deny his ideological ties to white supremacy:

Trump dodges on David Duke question: ' I know nothing about white supremacists'Trump dodges on David Duke question: ' I know nothing about white supremacists'

Jim Gilchrist, a former newsman and Chris Simcox become the fathers of the “Secure the border / monitor (sic) the flow of Undocumented immigrants effort:

“The Minuteman Project was a vigilante organization started in August 2004[1] by a group of private individuals in the United States to extrajudicially monitor the United States – Mexico border's flow of Undocumented immigrants.[2] Founded by Jim Gilchrist and Chris Simcox,..”

Minuteman Project - Wikipedia


Today, the founder of the wallist religion is proudly displaying his ties to the Tea Party publicly:


Jim Gilchrist's Page


So, who is Jim Gilchrist?

Jim Gilchrist is a former newsman, left of center, who is politically a National Socialist. His views are palatable enough so that Bernie Sanders once voted to Gilchrist’s benefit:

Julian Castro claims Bernie Sanders voted with Republicans to protect a hate group

The top lieutenants of his “Minuteman Project” were exposed as being neo – Nazis and even murderers.

Co-founder Chris Simcox Gilchrist’s most trusted friend) was proven to be both a pedophile as well as a nazi:



Ex-Minuteman Chris Simcox sentenced to 19.5 years in child sex-abuse case


Chris Simcox befriended J.T. Ready who was also mainstream Republican that, on the surface only wanted to fight so – called “illegal immigration,” but was, in reality, a neo-nazi that ended up committing a mass murder before committing suicide:

“Jason Todd "J. T." Ready (February 17, 1973[1][2] – May 2, 2012) was a former American Marine, founder and leader of a border militia group[3] and a former member of the neo-Nazi National Socialist Movement

J. T. Ready - Wikipedia


Gilchrist was a very cunning politician type (learning lessons from his newsman days) so he would deny knowing his own officers when they got into trouble. An article I read had this to say in response to one of Gilchrist’s false claims that he knew one of his own top officers “briefly”:

“Well, one of those "brief meetings" with {Shawna}Forde involved a big public Minuteman rally organized by Forde in Everett, Washington, back in 2006, about the same time Forde was appearing onstage representing the Minutemen in public-TV forums, too. Gilchrist was the star attraction at the Everett rally, and he and Forde praised each other onstage.

In an earlier report, moreover, Steller pointed out that Gilchrist was up to his ankles in communicating with Forde right up to the point of her arrest -- and in fact appears to have tried to tip her off that federal authorities were looking for her:



Jim Gilchrist, founder of the Minuteman Project and an early leader of the movement, said last week that he donated $200 to a member of Forde's group, that he called Forde a few days after the murders as investigators closed in, and that his group removed postings by and about Forde from its Web site after the arrests. But he called Forde and her associates "rogues," and denied that he or his group had a formal relationship with her.”

Orcinus: Minuteman leader Jim Gilchrist's ties to Shawna Forde's gang of killers finally catch up with him


“Formal relationship?” Shawna Forde was one of his top organizers! And he had a lot of faith in her:

Jim Gilchrist Speaks on Shawna - Justice for Shawna Forde

Evidently, Minutemen Founder Gilchrist Doesn't Like Us

Shawna Forde was convicted of the murder of a nine year old and her father:

Shawna Forde Guilty of Murder: Exclusive Interview with Arizona Minuteman

Also see this:

5 of Arizona's Most Notorious Racists and Their Crimes

Shawna Forde’s co-conspirator, Jason Bush, was a carbon copy of the kinds of people Gilchrist attracted:

“… Bush was also charged for the murder of a Latino man in Washington state in 1997, and in the murder of an Aryan Nations member he considered to be a “race-traitor”…”

The meltdown of the anti-immigration Minuteman militia


Gilchrist knows how to hide the National Socialist trimmings and then deny those who embarrass the effort. Make no mistake. Jim Gilchrist and Chris Simcox are the founding fathers of the wallist religion – where the wall and so – called “illegal immigration” are the ONLY topics they have any concern with. What are the odds that all the founders of the wallist religion ARE proven Nazis and their followers are not? Then again, that might not be a rhetorical question as I’ve been reading that right now is the first time in history where more people without an education are supporting the Republicans than are supporting them.


Be that as it may, the DADDY of the wallist religion IS a Tea Party member:

Jim Gilchrist's Page

Jim Gilchrist: Illegal Alien Children Being Used As Political Human Shields - Tea Party News


THE IDEOLOGY

The major organizations / think tanks were founded and funded by a single individual by the name of John Tanton. According to Wikipedia:

John H. Tanton (born February 23, 1934)[1] is an American retired ophthalmologist and activist in efforts aimed at reducing immigration levels in the United States. He was the founder and first chairman of the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), an anti-immigration organization. He was chairman of U.S. English and ProEnglish. He is the founder of The Social Contract Press, which publishes the quarterly journal The Social Contract. He founded the pro-eugenics organization Society for Genetic Education.

“FAIR, CIS and NumbersUSA are all part of a network of restrictionist organizations conceived and created by John Tanton, the "puppeteer" of the nativist movement and a man with deep racist roots. As the first article in this report shows, Tanton has for decades been at the heart of the white nationalist scene. He has met with leading white supremacists and associated closely with the leaders of a eugenicist foundation once described by a leading newspaper as a "neo-Nazi organization." He has made a series of racist statements about Latinos and worried that they were outbreeding whites. At one point, he wrote candidly that to maintain American culture, "a European-American majority" is required.”[25]

John Tanton - Wikipedia


So, here is the man responsible for the think tanks and the rhetoric that is generated relative to the wallist religion. But what, exactly is eugenics? I’d be a long time explaining it, but Wikipedia did a balanced article on it, so check it out:

Eugenics in the United States - Wikipedia


I only want to point out that the Rockefellers helped finance eugenics research… and the Rockefellers were all about the NEW WORLD ORDER / One World Government. It’s kind of hard to connect the dots until you figure out how the NEW WORLD ORDER types help finance both sides so that they can take each other out liberals v conservatives, right v left, Constitutionalists v National Socialists, etc. But, I digress. Now that I’ve spent over 15 years spreading my research about the David Duke – John Tanton ideologies (and Tanton supplied Duke his talking points back in the 1970s) other researchers have taken note:

Calling Former KKK Grand Wizard David Duke's Bluff


A Look at the Forces Behind the Anti-Immigrant Movement | Democracy Now!

A John Tanton Connect the Dots « American Border Patrol « Immigration « The Pink Flamingo

Team Trump's ties to white supremacy are even deeper than you imagined

https://splinternews.com/the-eugenicist-doctor-and-the-vast-fortune-behind-trump-1827322435


NOTE: It is unfortunate that I have to cite the left, but the Tea Party is never going to admit to who pioneered their political rhetoric. They also make the links to Nazism. Again, I am not getting into the fray over racial issues. I disagree with the current power structure because I oppose National Socialism. And the fact that the right’s think tanks are owned by a guy into eugenics and is pro-abortion signal significant differences of opinion between he and I.


The proposed solutions to the immigration debacle as adopted by those in the Tea Party are National Socialist NOT those of a constitutionalist group

 

[koshergrl]

1.a. I do not know what legal travesty you are referring to, but a foreigner who entered here against our laws is breaking the laws by being here. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar or a fool.

1b. The American people have a process by which to change the law if they want the Open Border you describe. They have not. YOur argument that they support the presence of people that are here illegally does not make any sense.


2. You made that point. I responded. That you ignored my response and reasserted your position is the logical fallacy of Proof by Assertion. You just admitted that you cannot refute my points, and that you know my point about the Right of Self Determination is correct.


3. My description of the behavior of you and others like you, is not an assumption, but a observation of your behavior. Your denial of open border types is not credible.


4. Your speculation about what Trump is thinking is noted. My point about his platform being the most aggressive on this issue stands.

1) Correll, are you a fucking idiot? A foreigner is NOT committing a crime by law by being here. It is strictly a civil matter. WTF? Are you completely STUPID? You are wrong and there is no argument here

2) What? That made even less sense the second time. If you think you're in a formal debate, you lost that eons ago. WTF are you saying?

3) Denial of what you cannot prove exists? You can't even give an example. You want a militarized border and you want to make a blanket accusation your dumb ass cannot prove. Like I said, if you like walls and fences so damn much, try prison... maybe a mental facility (that's probably where you belong)

4) I don't speculate about Trump. Past behavior is a good indicator of future performance. Keep that duly noted.

1. Your support of the illegals is noted. Why do you care more for their interests than the interests and rights of your fellow citizens?

2. You made a claim and when challenged, all you did was make the claim again. That is an admission that you cannot refute my counterpoints. That is true regardless of the level of formality.

3. Your desire to allow foreigners to flow into our nation unchecked and unvetted, while denying that there are open border people, is a sign of irrationality on your part.

4. Trump has been more aggressive on the issue of immigration, legal and illegal than anyone in living memory. That is current behavior, and you are attacking him for it.

1) Your inability to reason and the stupid shit you say that only cowards will say and only when they don't have to be held accountable (as in with their real name or in a public setting) is duly noted. As for me personally, I have a ministry where I try to find people that want a second chance and are willing to work for it. It isn't a handout; they work and go to school and / or get job training. We help. What are you doing in that regard?

2) What claim do you allege that has not been addressed a dozen times? If I have been asked and addressed it, you better hope that we don't address it again here lest you be branded a liar by your own words

3) This absolute horseshit of "unchecked and unvetted" foreigners is nutcase neo-Nazi HORSESHIT. If a foreign country wants to send you a bad apple, they sure as Hell aren't going to tell you. Mexico has printed up comic books instructing their citizens how to avoid our border patrol. Only an idiot would give their background check info any credibility.

OTOH, since we have the 14th Amendment, many Americans are kept out of jobs for doing things that ARE NOT recorded in foreign countries (i.e. domestic family problems, drug / alcohol convictions, etc.) A lot of things that are felonies in the U.S. aren't crimes in many other countries. The ONLY people you're hurting are Americans

4) Trump has given you the illusion that he's doing something and each time his proposals get shot down, it sets a nasty precedent for our future (YOUR future and mine.) A good example is legislative fiat. Kamala Harris has already stated if elected she will use the same misuse of Executive Powers to confiscate firearms in the U.S.

You're never going to catch on to the way political psychology, political warfare, psychopolitics, and legal precedents are used so this is a waste of time.

It's a waste of time for you, this is true. Because you're a brainwashed leftist dolt.

I want to see infrastructure, we all do, specifically because we need prisons and nuthouses to lodge you and your buddies.

Correll under another name. I'm no leftist and nobody's dolt. You can create as many profiles as you deem necessary.

Still lying, lol.

Nope I'm not correll, you liar. I'm just another person who has your number, you pos, anti American scumbag.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Kosher girl and Correll are one and the same. More proof that Correll and his alter ego (Kosher girl) are lying:

Make no mistake. The wall, most likely will not be built. Since you're asking the wrong questions predicated on the wrong presuppositions, let's examine this very closely. The entire talk about walls, fences, etc. started with National Socialists like David Duke. Remember him and Border Watch?

Hat Thief: David Duke Wanted to Secure the Border Before It Was Cool

The issue was hot throughout the late 1970s and into the 1980s. Where was "conservative" thinking back then?




And, when the liberals wanted to gain power, where was their thinking on the issue?



So, between 1977 and the 1980s this border wall talk was started by National Socialists, opposed by conservatives, and by 1995 the rhetoric was adopted by the Democrats. Have you ever asked yourself what happened? What changed?

In 2003, a right wing border patrol group lost a case that set the precedent for what would follow. Seizing on the court losses and the fear generated by 9 / 11, all of a sudden Jim Gilchrist, a former newsman enlisted real life Nazis and began his self proclaimed "Minutemen." Gilchrist only rehashed David Duke's rhetoric, using the same think tanks, financed by the same financier, and still misleading the people. Only now, it is supported by "conservatives."

While I realize that an issue exists, I'm banished from the right wing. Most of the time, I see those who follow Trump (who is parroting the propaganda coming from real life Nazi organizations) trying the same discredited and refuted talking points. The way I see it, the people following Trump are the left wing National Socialists. We have a problem with foreigners; however, Trump, preaching the Gilchrist / Duke gospel that they learned from organizations financed by John Tanton is not any kind of solution.

In the first place, these people cannot decide whether they want to complain about a National Emergency issue OR a problem with people they have mislabeled "illegal aliens." No matter how many times you explain that, the wallists try to use their irrelevant arguing points. Whether we like it or not; agree with it or not; believe it or not, the federal government is prohibited by law from enforcing domestic policies. If the wallists continue with the "illegal alien" rhetoric, they cannot make a case for a National Emergency since the rhetoric makes it a legal issue, NOT a military one. This is especially true when the affected states governors say NO National Emergency exists.

Again, like it or not; believe it or not, the United States Supreme Court has ruled that "being in" the United States without documentation is NOT a crime. Period. It's not up for debate. Then, to answer their rhetorical question, YES, the United States government is tasked with protecting the borders. The problem is, the majority of the American people disagree with the SOLUTIONS to the point that a majority don't want the wall. Or so they say.

The real questions should be: How did the right end up on the left of this issue? What happened that the leadership of the left abandoned their own fight and allowed the right to co-opt it? What are the real costs (not only monetary costs) are going to be involved? Does the possibility exist that people like Rupert Murdoch (whom we've talked about in other recent threads) has figured out how to use the right's momentum against the right? Could the possibility exist, to use an analogy, that rather than try to duke it out with a bigger guy in the fight, the power brokers simply grabbed the arms of their opponents and pulled it, using the momentum to make the right fall flat on their asses? Your questions would require some in depth posting. Do you really want an answer OR an opportunity to repeat the swill we've heard for over a decade and half? BTW, if I told you the truth, you'd begin to realize how much you've really lost over that period.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Since Correll keeps typing and ignoring my challenges, I will keep repeating them:

America has had foreigners regulated since the Mayflower hit the shores of the New World in 1620. However, this process has been done by different levels of government at different times. From your own article:

"The federal government assumed control of immigration on April 18, 1890"

Here are the serious questions for you Correll:

A) Where, in the Constitution, does the federal government have the authority to tell the states who can and cannot come to that respective state?

B) PRIOR to 1890 the federal government did not have control over immigration. Obviously if someone were regulating the flow of foreigners and it was not the federal government, somebody did it for that period between 1789 and 1890 A FULL CENTURY OF REGULATION WITHOUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BY YOUR OWN LINK!

C) HOW did the federal government, after a century end up controlling the flow of foreigners? Which Amendment changed that?

Shut the hell up, you're just a brainwashed, lying dupe.

Can you make me shut up, Correll? Or are you full of shit?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

To begin with, the build the wall guys say if you are not for a wall, you are a liberal, lefty, etc. That is absolutely idiotic as we shall see.

The way I view the topic is best described in an analogy. In this analogy a man is stuck in a burning apartment on the third floor of a building (this part of the analogy describes our situation in America.) If this man stays in his current position, he dies. If the man goes out the door, there is a 100 percent chance that he will be killed (that part of the analogy refers to the nutty wall idea.) If he jumps out the window, the fall might kill him, but then again, he might live. That part of the analogy refers to a solution OTHER THAN the nutty wall idea.

I am neither pro-open borders NOR am I anti – closed borders. So, let’s get that understood and make an attempt to be honest. It’s just that a militarized border with a wall around it will not work in the United States.

The REAL cost of the wall is Liberty. So far, no build the wall guy has addressed the issue of Liberty. In the Declaration of Independence, we find these words:

“WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness”

Of this document, the Declaration of Independence, the SCOTUS ruled:

The first official action of this nation declared the foundation of government in these words: "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. "While such declaration of principles may not have the force of organic law, or be made the basis of judicial decision as to the limits of right and duty, and while in all cases reference must be had to the organic law of the nation for such limits, yet the latter is but the body and the letter of which the former is the thought and the spirit, and it is always safe to read the letter of the Constitution in the spirit of the Declaration of Independence. No duty rests more imperatively upon the courts than the enforcement of those constitutional provisions intended to secure that equality of rights which is the foundation of free government." Cotting v. Godard, 183 U.S. 79 (1901)

The Bible is clear about this subject as well:

“Proclaim Liberty throughout all the land Unto All the Inhabitants thereof” Leviticus 25: 10 and this Bible verse can be found on the Liberty Bell at Independence Hall. This Old Testament verse refers to the "Jubilee", or the instructions to the Israelites to return property and free slaves.every 50 years.

In II Timothy 3: 16 we read that “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness”

Finally, in II Corinthians 3 : 17 we read that:

“Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there isLiberty.”

But what is Liberty? Well in a biblical sense, liberty means freedom (see # 1865 in the Greek Dictionary of Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible. In law, Liberty means Freedom; exemption from extraneous control. …freedom regulated by law. (Black’s Law Dictionary Fifth Edition)

My take on it is very simple:

In New Jersey, they passed a law requiring people to turn in high capacity magazines… this included even off duty police. Nobody complied? Why? People think the law is unconstitutional. The Right to Life and Liberty are unalienable Rights. The Right to keep and bear Arms is an unalienable Right. It is an extension of both a Right to Life AND a Right to Liberty. So, no matter how many laws are passed, the majority of gun owners will not forfeit that Right. On that issue, they understand the concept.

Those same people would, however, deny to me my Rights and punish me for hiring undocumented foreigners. The sad truth is, just as the feds are usurping the Second Amendment, they are waging a war against your Liberty. Those wanting a wall cannot find any biblical precedent for CONTROLLING people (which was one the first reasons cited to me in favor of a wall) and that was followed up by Ray – falsely believing we can keep people out. What a crock! (Continued in part II)

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Part II of my response to you:

In Jesus Time, there were THREE walls that surrounded Jerusalem, 90 towers stood in the first wall, 14 in the second, and 60 in the third. The third wall was built by Herod Agrippa I. These walls dated back to the time the first one was built in 130 B.C. Yet, very clearly these walls did not work. They did not keep the moneychangers out of the Temple (It didn’t even keep them outside the outer walls) Furthermore, the walls did not keep out the poseurs who claimed to be Israelites, but were in fact, half breed Canaanites that Jesus referred to as the Children of Hell.

America, being a cut above the third world is not Mexico, Canada, etc. NOR are we at war (which is the primary purpose of a wall … OTHER THANpreserving a culture.)

Those who want a wall cite they mythical stories that these foreigners steal jobs – impossible unless you live in a socialist country… and Ray wants to debate the meaning of socialism. Since he previously rejected the dictionary definition, I went directly to the socialists themselves. These are THEIR words, not mine:

“we believe that social and economic decisions should be made by those whom they most affect.

Today, corporate executives who answer only to themselves and a few wealthy stockholders make basic economic decisions affecting millions of people. Resources are used to make money for capitalists rather than to meet human needs. We believe that the workers and consumers who are affected by economic institutions should own and control them”

What is Democratic Socialism? - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)

These are Ray’s EXACT sentiments. Ray advocates for that very kind of control as do those who have bothered to answer my questions.

I think it’s time for the build the wall guys, the right, the left, etc. to cut the crap and get real. From where do your Rights come from? If the government give you your rights via your citizenship, then government is your Creator and your God. It’s time to read the Declaration of Independence and the Court cases related thereto.

Under that scenario, you have NO Right to keep and bear Arms, NO Right to Freedom of the Press or Freedom of Speech, No Right to Freedom of Religion, etc. This is NOT multiple choice; it’s either / or.

IF you believe in the foundational principles upon which America was founded, then you accept the fact that unalienable Rights pre-existed before the Constitution was written. Man cannot take them from you. And so, rather than spew this idiotic charge that I’m “pro-open borders,” you have to ask yourself the REAL question:

Is your Liberty a gift from your Creator OR is it bestowed upon you by government? IF you believe in God, you have to find the biblical justification for denying to people their Liberty. Securing the border, protecting America from an invasion, regulating the flow of people are all legal, moral and constitutional. Using the laws to control or keep people out is a violation of their unalienable Rights – unless you think that only Americans have a Right to be in the United States. We don’t have to hire those people; nobody has to do business with them; we don’t have to interact with them and it is OUR politicians that allow them to partake of the privileges of citizenship without becoming citizens. Your real beef is with the politicians.


Either you believe in Liberty or you do not. The build the wall guys understand this so they’ve created this talking point: you’re either for the wall or you are whatever insult they can conjure up. I’m not going to bother calling them names. I pointed out what socialists say and what the word of God says. IF Liberty only applies to Americans, somebody refer me to that section of the Constitution, the Bible, the Declaration of Independence or something (other that post 14th Amendment swill) that will give credence to the talking point.

Are you keeping up Correll or should I slow down? Using two different profiles is also not cool. But, if that is the way you roll... BTW, the socialists I've quoted are saying the same things as you are. Would you like me to quote you and then quote their words so you can compare? Or are you capable of reading this?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Simple question, Correll:

How do YOU define Liberty?

Somebody might actually READ what I wrote and figure out you are a pathological liar with two accounts on this board (maybe more.) You have no answers?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Since Correll keeps typing and ignoring my challenges, I will keep repeating them:

America has had foreigners regulated since the Mayflower hit the shores of the New World in 1620. However, this process has been done by different levels of government at different times. From your own article:

"The federal government assumed control of immigration on April 18, 1890"

Here are the serious questions for you Correll:

A) Where, in the Constitution, does the federal government have the authority to tell the states who can and cannot come to that respective state?

B) PRIOR to 1890 the federal government did not have control over immigration. Obviously if someone were regulating the flow of foreigners and it was not the federal government, somebody did it for that period between 1789 and 1890 A FULL CENTURY OF REGULATION WITHOUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BY YOUR OWN LINK!

C) HOW did the federal government, after a century end up controlling the flow of foreigners? Which Amendment changed that?

 

[Correll]

1. My work ethic is fine and not the cause of millions of foreigners crossing the border is violation of our democratically enacted laws and our Right of Self Determination.


2. Nope. I want solutions. The scapegoat thing is something you made up out of whole cloth.

3. The Supreme Court was suicidality stupid in deciding that people who entered illegally and stay here illegally and have to falsify records and taxes in order to work here, are " subject to the jurisdiction" of our laws. That was an obvious mistake and in a sane world would have been reversed immediately.

4. My point stands. Foreigners are let into this country by a corrupt political class, not because of our culture. Your contempt of your fellow Americans does not change that.

5. Lower work cost might be good for macro-economic numbers and employers. It is not good for employees, and the nation as a whole. It is the right of those employees and those that identify with them, to seek political representation for their interests. Your hostility to this has not been explained.


6. Nazis are an irrelevant fringe. If a nazi is for good dental hygiene, it does not make me a nazi to brush my teeth.

7. How so?

1) We are not a democracy. So, you just exposed yourself as a social democrat

2) You want scapegoats. If a willing employer hires a willing worker, what Right are you denied?

3) The United States Supreme Court did nothing you falsely accused them of. According to the Chief Actuary of the Socialist Security Administration, about 75 percent of all undocumented foreigners get an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number and pay the same illegal / unconstitutional / immoral / indefensible/ federal tax that you do. Nice to see you're still defending a plank from the Communist Manifesto AND lying about it with joy in your heart and a smile on your face

4) Foreigners come here because the Constitution so allows. The ONLY thing regulating the process is laws pushed by Ted Kennedy and an unconstitutional power grab by the United States Supreme Court

5) You do not understand basic economics much less macro economics and virtually every economist (including those on the far right admit that foreign labor is profitable.) My case rests on the premise that money should not be the only factor. My hostility is toward you because you are a pathological liar that has had this shit explained in detail and, on other threads, you did not read it NOR even formulate a responsive post on the points that you made which are in error

6) Saying Nazis are a fringe group may make you happy, but you have your head so far up their asses, you don't get a breath of fresh air til one of the farts. Perhaps that is why you don't understand

7) How so? How so what??? What are you asking?

Look, if you want me to rehash the same stuff I beat you up with on three other threads, we can go there. You'll just get your ass stomped into the ground again. You couldn't defend your crap on the other threads; have admitted you don't read the posts, so what... you think we might help someone understand what a poseur you really are if I post proof for a sixth time (at least that many times) that you have FAILED to answer???

I don't need 20 questions every exchange. Tell us the truth.

Prior to David Duke, what American in all of U.S. history, proposed the laws you support that would be put into place under the pretext of enforcing the wall? Can you name even ONE?

1. We are a Constitutional republic with our government's legitimacy based on the consent of the governed. Referencing the source of that legitimacy is not admitting that I am a social democrat. Calling me a name, was just a dodge of my point about illegal immigration violating our Right to Self Determination, which still stands. And which you have not addressed though I have brought it up many times.


2. I am denied my right of self determination. We as a nation, have the right to define who we are and how we live. Being flooded by the Turd World is not how I want America to be.

3. How do they legally get a number when they are here illegally? And don't think that I didn't notice that you ignore the other crimes I mentioned. They are not "subject to the jurisdiction" of our laws

4. Immigration was regulated and controlled WAY before Ted Kennedy.

Ellis Island - Wikipedia

"Ellis Island is a museum and former immigration inspection station in New York Harbor, within the states of New York and New Jersey. It was the gateway for over 12 million immigrants to the United States as the nation's busiest immigrant inspection station from 1892 until 1954"

for one very limited example. Ted Kennedy, who I agree is a villain, was not born until 1932, 3O years after Ellis Island started inspecting and controlling immigration. I have know that your claims about who invented certain ideas in America was wrong, and this time I was able to easily and clearly show it.


My point stands. Foreigners are let into this country by a corrupt political class, not because of our culture. Your contempt of your fellow Americans does not change that.



5. I agree that economics should not be the only factor considered. My point about low wages being bad for American workers stands, and nothing in your post explains why you oppose higher wages, or why you consider it wrong of me to want that.


6. Saying the Nazis are a fringe group does make me happy. It is a good thing. And I like speaking the Truth to panic mongers who want to panic people for no good reason.


7. HOw do you blame me for high taxes?


8. I know that there were anti-immigration movements in the past. The specific tools would have been different because the times were different. Supporting a wall between US and Mexico, when the vast majority of immigration was coming from Europe, would have been senseless, but the idea of being anti-immigration was certainly there.

1) I don't know what point you're alleging I'm dodging, but spit it out. What does that even mean that "illegal immigration" violates your Right to Self Determination (sic?)

2) I realize that this is going to come as a great big fucking surprise to you since you don't pay attention, but in many of my long posts I have stated many many times that America cannot be all things to all people and what America is about is stated in the Preamble to the Constitution:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity..."

Can you read that bolded portion? Where do you see me advocating for turning America into a third world country? Take a look at this country's FIRST naturalization law (I've posted it over 20 times.) Where does it allow for the third world to gain equal political status with you or I?

3) If people were not subject to the jurisdiction of our laws, we would have no jurisdiction to deport them. As for taxes, the IRS is a quasi private corporation and they don't give a shit who you are or where you come from. If money passes hands, they want their piece of the pie. So again, Individual Taxpayer Identification Number. Immigration status is no bar to owing the tax according to the IRS.

If / when people commit crimes, they are prosecuted regardless of their immigration status. OTOH, they also have the Right to a presumption of innocence due to the 14th Amendment (which, BTW, I believe to have been illegally ratified)

4) America has had foreigners regulated since the Mayflower hit the shores of the New World in 1620. However, this process has been done by different levels of government at different times. From your own article:

"The federal government assumed control of immigration on April 18, 1890"

Here are the serious questions for you Correll:

A) Where, in the Constitution, does the federal government have the authority to tell the states who can and cannot come to that respective state?

B) PRIOR to 1890 the federal government did not have control over immigration. Obviously if someone were regulating the flow of foreigners and it was not the federal government, somebody did it for that period between 1789 and 1890 A FULL CENTURY OF REGULATION WITHOUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BY YOUR OWN LINK!

C) HOW did the federal government, after a century end up controlling the flow of foreigners? Which Amendment changed that?

5) Aside from your bold assertions that you've done stuff you most assuredly have not, you have added to your abject stupidity by saying I'm against paying Americans high wages. In fact, I drafted legislation that I propose to my congresscritters twice each year to give strong incentives to employers to hire Americans and pay higher wages. You continue to lie about proving me wrong - YOU NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL and you lie to yourself about me. NOBODY is buying your bullshit. Not even you...

6) Whether you are a "fringe" group or just one of their bitches is irrelevant. National Socialist solutions prevail and you are all in. You won't even consider anything else - which is why you are spreading the horseshit thick as you can on this thread and LYING like a New York politician. Real change NEVER happens among the masses

7) I blame you for high taxes because you lie like Hell about me and YOU propose a government so big that the average person could never resist a tyrannical government. You endorse a plank out of the Communist Manifesto by falsely accusing foreigners of not paying that unconstitutional tax. You sabotaged our efforts to get rid of the income tax, the IRS, and make the tax burden equal on all (regardless of immigration status, income level, etc.) YOU are part of that bunch that want Orwellian National ID tied to your Socialist Surveillance Number ...ooops "Social Security Number." That is two points you are, by your own admission, advocating socialism on

8) Did you realize that in 1953 we had the lowest unemployment rates in U.S. history and people, like you, wanted a mass deportation - and so we did... and by the end of 1954 our unemployment rate DOUBLED in under five years and stayed above that 1953 level until recently???

1. We, as Americans have the right to self determination. A big part of that is having the right to decide who joins our community. When people enter illegally and stay, that right is violated. You support that.


2. When you want to let people (mostly third world) walk across the border, against our wishes and join our society, you are supporting this nation being turned into a Third World shithole.

3. That we have the power to send some one home, maybe if we catch them, does not mean they are under our jurisdiction, and I've heard of quite a lot of those illegals ILLEGALLY copying someone ELSE'S numbers, often messing with their lives, a lot. They are here illegally, send their asses home.


4. And just like that, you dropped your claim about Ted Kennedy coming up with the idea of immigration control. You don't like Federal control? Interesting. Let's talk about that a lot. AFTER WE SEND THE ILLEGALS HOME.

5. You support having Americans compete against unlimited, cheap and/or illegal labor. That has and will guarantee low wages for American workers.



6. Your desire to smear ideas, with the logical fallacy of attacking the messenger, is just a way to avoid dealing with the actual pros and cons of the issue.

7. The government was big way before I was born. NOT deporting the illegals, nor NOT building a Wall, is not going to make it smaller.


8. And now you just dropped the claim that David Duke invented it, thanks. DEPORT THEM ALL.

1) You are right. I do think that each community and each state makes their own decisions. So, if Californication wants 75 percent undocumented foreigners, have at it. Don't expect me to pay for it

2) Just because someone comes here does not and should not make them a part of our society. THAT is one of your major weaknesses

3) The United States Supreme Court has said you are wrong on jurisdiction:

Plyler v. Doe

4) You are lying out your ass again. You show me where I said that Ted Kennedy "came up with the idea of immigration control" and I'll kiss your ass on the main street of America and give you two weeks to draw a crowd. You are acting like a moron and lying out your ever loving ass. Kennedy forced through the current laws that were designed to take away from the posterity and then implode.

5) Another lie and I'm not going to respond to that. You would not make that allegation with your real name attached and that allegation destroys your credibility and is an admission on your part that you cannot sustain your arguments

6) I've dealt with the pros and cons of the issue without smearing a single soul. I've not said anything about you that YOU did not say about yourself. You've tried lying, deflecting and making the most idiotic allegations ever heard. Quite frankly, since you cannot make an honest statement, you've pretty well displayed how low your intelligence is

7) Your side has already spent over TWO TRILLION DOLLARS on your idiotic fantasy. You, by your own admission, have nothing to show for it. Cry me a river

8) I have dropped no such claim about David Duke. You lie like HELL. I challenged you to name an American who advocated it and lobbied for it in the United States and you could not come up with a single solitary name. You are fucked up and a liar. I accept your concession of defeat.

1. California's illegals are not staying in California. They are changing this nation, without our consent.

2. I agree completely, but by current rules that is what happens, so send the fuckers home.

3. Supreme Court has been wrong before. Send the fuckers home.

4. Your words from above, "The ONLY thing regulating the process is laws pushed by Ted Kennedy and "

5. You support letting the illegals waltz into California, as though they stay there. Once they are here, they compete with Americans for jobs.

6. In our culture calling someone a nazi is the greatest smear and you have done that over and over again, based on nothing.

7. I assume the two trillion number includes all border security over a long period of time. It is dishonest to put that all on me.

8. My position is not based on how else was for border security and/or a wall.

 

[Correll]

David Duke organizes Border Watch in 1977:

That time David Duke and KKK patrolled the Mexican border…

David Duke and Donald Trump both belonged to the Reform Party at the same time, which demonstrates a unity of ideology:
....

No, it does not.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

1) We are not a democracy. So, you just exposed yourself as a social democrat

2) You want scapegoats. If a willing employer hires a willing worker, what Right are you denied?

3) The United States Supreme Court did nothing you falsely accused them of. According to the Chief Actuary of the Socialist Security Administration, about 75 percent of all undocumented foreigners get an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number and pay the same illegal / unconstitutional / immoral / indefensible/ federal tax that you do. Nice to see you're still defending a plank from the Communist Manifesto AND lying about it with joy in your heart and a smile on your face

4) Foreigners come here because the Constitution so allows. The ONLY thing regulating the process is laws pushed by Ted Kennedy and an unconstitutional power grab by the United States Supreme Court

5) You do not understand basic economics much less macro economics and virtually every economist (including those on the far right admit that foreign labor is profitable.) My case rests on the premise that money should not be the only factor. My hostility is toward you because you are a pathological liar that has had this shit explained in detail and, on other threads, you did not read it NOR even formulate a responsive post on the points that you made which are in error

6) Saying Nazis are a fringe group may make you happy, but you have your head so far up their asses, you don't get a breath of fresh air til one of the farts. Perhaps that is why you don't understand

7) How so? How so what??? What are you asking?

Look, if you want me to rehash the same stuff I beat you up with on three other threads, we can go there. You'll just get your ass stomped into the ground again. You couldn't defend your crap on the other threads; have admitted you don't read the posts, so what... you think we might help someone understand what a poseur you really are if I post proof for a sixth time (at least that many times) that you have FAILED to answer???

I don't need 20 questions every exchange. Tell us the truth.

Prior to David Duke, what American in all of U.S. history, proposed the laws you support that would be put into place under the pretext of enforcing the wall? Can you name even ONE?

1. We are a Constitutional republic with our government's legitimacy based on the consent of the governed. Referencing the source of that legitimacy is not admitting that I am a social democrat. Calling me a name, was just a dodge of my point about illegal immigration violating our Right to Self Determination, which still stands. And which you have not addressed though I have brought it up many times.


2. I am denied my right of self determination. We as a nation, have the right to define who we are and how we live. Being flooded by the Turd World is not how I want America to be.

3. How do they legally get a number when they are here illegally? And don't think that I didn't notice that you ignore the other crimes I mentioned. They are not "subject to the jurisdiction" of our laws

4. Immigration was regulated and controlled WAY before Ted Kennedy.

Ellis Island - Wikipedia

"Ellis Island is a museum and former immigration inspection station in New York Harbor, within the states of New York and New Jersey. It was the gateway for over 12 million immigrants to the United States as the nation's busiest immigrant inspection station from 1892 until 1954"

for one very limited example. Ted Kennedy, who I agree is a villain, was not born until 1932, 3O years after Ellis Island started inspecting and controlling immigration. I have know that your claims about who invented certain ideas in America was wrong, and this time I was able to easily and clearly show it.


My point stands. Foreigners are let into this country by a corrupt political class, not because of our culture. Your contempt of your fellow Americans does not change that.



5. I agree that economics should not be the only factor considered. My point about low wages being bad for American workers stands, and nothing in your post explains why you oppose higher wages, or why you consider it wrong of me to want that.


6. Saying the Nazis are a fringe group does make me happy. It is a good thing. And I like speaking the Truth to panic mongers who want to panic people for no good reason.


7. HOw do you blame me for high taxes?


8. I know that there were anti-immigration movements in the past. The specific tools would have been different because the times were different. Supporting a wall between US and Mexico, when the vast majority of immigration was coming from Europe, would have been senseless, but the idea of being anti-immigration was certainly there.

1) I don't know what point you're alleging I'm dodging, but spit it out. What does that even mean that "illegal immigration" violates your Right to Self Determination (sic?)

2) I realize that this is going to come as a great big fucking surprise to you since you don't pay attention, but in many of my long posts I have stated many many times that America cannot be all things to all people and what America is about is stated in the Preamble to the Constitution:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity..."

Can you read that bolded portion? Where do you see me advocating for turning America into a third world country? Take a look at this country's FIRST naturalization law (I've posted it over 20 times.) Where does it allow for the third world to gain equal political status with you or I?

3) If people were not subject to the jurisdiction of our laws, we would have no jurisdiction to deport them. As for taxes, the IRS is a quasi private corporation and they don't give a shit who you are or where you come from. If money passes hands, they want their piece of the pie. So again, Individual Taxpayer Identification Number. Immigration status is no bar to owing the tax according to the IRS.

If / when people commit crimes, they are prosecuted regardless of their immigration status. OTOH, they also have the Right to a presumption of innocence due to the 14th Amendment (which, BTW, I believe to have been illegally ratified)

4) America has had foreigners regulated since the Mayflower hit the shores of the New World in 1620. However, this process has been done by different levels of government at different times. From your own article:

"The federal government assumed control of immigration on April 18, 1890"

Here are the serious questions for you Correll:

A) Where, in the Constitution, does the federal government have the authority to tell the states who can and cannot come to that respective state?

B) PRIOR to 1890 the federal government did not have control over immigration. Obviously if someone were regulating the flow of foreigners and it was not the federal government, somebody did it for that period between 1789 and 1890 A FULL CENTURY OF REGULATION WITHOUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BY YOUR OWN LINK!

C) HOW did the federal government, after a century end up controlling the flow of foreigners? Which Amendment changed that?

5) Aside from your bold assertions that you've done stuff you most assuredly have not, you have added to your abject stupidity by saying I'm against paying Americans high wages. In fact, I drafted legislation that I propose to my congresscritters twice each year to give strong incentives to employers to hire Americans and pay higher wages. You continue to lie about proving me wrong - YOU NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL and you lie to yourself about me. NOBODY is buying your bullshit. Not even you...

6) Whether you are a "fringe" group or just one of their bitches is irrelevant. National Socialist solutions prevail and you are all in. You won't even consider anything else - which is why you are spreading the horseshit thick as you can on this thread and LYING like a New York politician. Real change NEVER happens among the masses

7) I blame you for high taxes because you lie like Hell about me and YOU propose a government so big that the average person could never resist a tyrannical government. You endorse a plank out of the Communist Manifesto by falsely accusing foreigners of not paying that unconstitutional tax. You sabotaged our efforts to get rid of the income tax, the IRS, and make the tax burden equal on all (regardless of immigration status, income level, etc.) YOU are part of that bunch that want Orwellian National ID tied to your Socialist Surveillance Number ...ooops "Social Security Number." That is two points you are, by your own admission, advocating socialism on

8) Did you realize that in 1953 we had the lowest unemployment rates in U.S. history and people, like you, wanted a mass deportation - and so we did... and by the end of 1954 our unemployment rate DOUBLED in under five years and stayed above that 1953 level until recently???

1. We, as Americans have the right to self determination. A big part of that is having the right to decide who joins our community. When people enter illegally and stay, that right is violated. You support that.


2. When you want to let people (mostly third world) walk across the border, against our wishes and join our society, you are supporting this nation being turned into a Third World shithole.

3. That we have the power to send some one home, maybe if we catch them, does not mean they are under our jurisdiction, and I've heard of quite a lot of those illegals ILLEGALLY copying someone ELSE'S numbers, often messing with their lives, a lot. They are here illegally, send their asses home.


4. And just like that, you dropped your claim about Ted Kennedy coming up with the idea of immigration control. You don't like Federal control? Interesting. Let's talk about that a lot. AFTER WE SEND THE ILLEGALS HOME.

5. You support having Americans compete against unlimited, cheap and/or illegal labor. That has and will guarantee low wages for American workers.



6. Your desire to smear ideas, with the logical fallacy of attacking the messenger, is just a way to avoid dealing with the actual pros and cons of the issue.

7. The government was big way before I was born. NOT deporting the illegals, nor NOT building a Wall, is not going to make it smaller.


8. And now you just dropped the claim that David Duke invented it, thanks. DEPORT THEM ALL.

1) You are right. I do think that each community and each state makes their own decisions. So, if Californication wants 75 percent undocumented foreigners, have at it. Don't expect me to pay for it

2) Just because someone comes here does not and should not make them a part of our society. THAT is one of your major weaknesses

3) The United States Supreme Court has said you are wrong on jurisdiction:

Plyler v. Doe

4) You are lying out your ass again. You show me where I said that Ted Kennedy "came up with the idea of immigration control" and I'll kiss your ass on the main street of America and give you two weeks to draw a crowd. You are acting like a moron and lying out your ever loving ass. Kennedy forced through the current laws that were designed to take away from the posterity and then implode.

5) Another lie and I'm not going to respond to that. You would not make that allegation with your real name attached and that allegation destroys your credibility and is an admission on your part that you cannot sustain your arguments

6) I've dealt with the pros and cons of the issue without smearing a single soul. I've not said anything about you that YOU did not say about yourself. You've tried lying, deflecting and making the most idiotic allegations ever heard. Quite frankly, since you cannot make an honest statement, you've pretty well displayed how low your intelligence is

7) Your side has already spent over TWO TRILLION DOLLARS on your idiotic fantasy. You, by your own admission, have nothing to show for it. Cry me a river

8) I have dropped no such claim about David Duke. You lie like HELL. I challenged you to name an American who advocated it and lobbied for it in the United States and you could not come up with a single solitary name. You are fucked up and a liar. I accept your concession of defeat.

1. California's illegals are not staying in California. They are changing this nation, without our consent.

2. I agree completely, but by current rules that is what happens, so send the fuckers home.

3. Supreme Court has been wrong before. Send the fuckers home.

4. Your words from above, "The ONLY thing regulating the process is laws pushed by Ted Kennedy and "

5. You support letting the illegals waltz into California, as though they stay there. Once they are here, they compete with Americans for jobs.

6. In our culture calling someone a nazi is the greatest smear and you have done that over and over again, based on nothing.

7. I assume the two trillion number includes all border security over a long period of time. It is dishonest to put that all on me.

8. My position is not based on how else was for border security and/or a wall.

I responded to you. Time for some answers Correll. Put up or shut up. I stand by what I said, but it still isn't what you claim. You got reading comprehension issues?

I want some answers for a change. I'm not calling everyone a Nazi... just YOU. And the TWO TRILLION is on YOU. You want to be the spokesman - you want to be the big cheese.

So, now answer my questions.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

David Duke organizes Border Watch in 1977:

That time David Duke and KKK patrolled the Mexican border…

David Duke and Donald Trump both belonged to the Reform Party at the same time, which demonstrates a unity of ideology:
....

No, it does not.

Now you sound like a fifth grader. A denial doesn't refute anything. You had a lot to say and now you cannot answer the questions. Let me repeat a post for you:

America has had foreigners regulated since the Mayflower hit the shores of the New World in 1620. However, this process has been done by different levels of government at different times. From your own article:

"The federal government assumed control of immigration on April 18, 1890"

Here are the serious questions for you Correll:

A) Where, in the Constitution, does the federal government have the authority to tell the states who can and cannot come to that respective state?

B) PRIOR to 1890 the federal government did not have control over immigration. Obviously if someone were regulating the flow of foreigners and it was not the federal government, somebody did it for that period between 1789 and 1890 A FULL CENTURY OF REGULATION WITHOUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BY YOUR OWN LINK!

C) HOW did the federal government, after a century end up controlling the flow of foreigners? Which Amendment changed that?

Tell me who, before David Duke, wanted the same kind of border control you advocate? Give me a name. Tell me someone who says they are "for" open borders. You wanted a discussion. Spit it out. OR were you full of shit and now realize it? That deal with two personas was a real low.

 

[Correll]

1. We are a Constitutional republic with our government's legitimacy based on the consent of the governed. Referencing the source of that legitimacy is not admitting that I am a social democrat. Calling me a name, was just a dodge of my point about illegal immigration violating our Right to Self Determination, which still stands. And which you have not addressed though I have brought it up many times.


2. I am denied my right of self determination. We as a nation, have the right to define who we are and how we live. Being flooded by the Turd World is not how I want America to be.

3. How do they legally get a number when they are here illegally? And don't think that I didn't notice that you ignore the other crimes I mentioned. They are not "subject to the jurisdiction" of our laws

4. Immigration was regulated and controlled WAY before Ted Kennedy.

Ellis Island - Wikipedia

"Ellis Island is a museum and former immigration inspection station in New York Harbor, within the states of New York and New Jersey. It was the gateway for over 12 million immigrants to the United States as the nation's busiest immigrant inspection station from 1892 until 1954"

for one very limited example. Ted Kennedy, who I agree is a villain, was not born until 1932, 3O years after Ellis Island started inspecting and controlling immigration. I have know that your claims about who invented certain ideas in America was wrong, and this time I was able to easily and clearly show it.


My point stands. Foreigners are let into this country by a corrupt political class, not because of our culture. Your contempt of your fellow Americans does not change that.



5. I agree that economics should not be the only factor considered. My point about low wages being bad for American workers stands, and nothing in your post explains why you oppose higher wages, or why you consider it wrong of me to want that.


6. Saying the Nazis are a fringe group does make me happy. It is a good thing. And I like speaking the Truth to panic mongers who want to panic people for no good reason.


7. HOw do you blame me for high taxes?


8. I know that there were anti-immigration movements in the past. The specific tools would have been different because the times were different. Supporting a wall between US and Mexico, when the vast majority of immigration was coming from Europe, would have been senseless, but the idea of being anti-immigration was certainly there.

1) I don't know what point you're alleging I'm dodging, but spit it out. What does that even mean that "illegal immigration" violates your Right to Self Determination (sic?)

2) I realize that this is going to come as a great big fucking surprise to you since you don't pay attention, but in many of my long posts I have stated many many times that America cannot be all things to all people and what America is about is stated in the Preamble to the Constitution:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity..."

Can you read that bolded portion? Where do you see me advocating for turning America into a third world country? Take a look at this country's FIRST naturalization law (I've posted it over 20 times.) Where does it allow for the third world to gain equal political status with you or I?

3) If people were not subject to the jurisdiction of our laws, we would have no jurisdiction to deport them. As for taxes, the IRS is a quasi private corporation and they don't give a shit who you are or where you come from. If money passes hands, they want their piece of the pie. So again, Individual Taxpayer Identification Number. Immigration status is no bar to owing the tax according to the IRS.

If / when people commit crimes, they are prosecuted regardless of their immigration status. OTOH, they also have the Right to a presumption of innocence due to the 14th Amendment (which, BTW, I believe to have been illegally ratified)

4) America has had foreigners regulated since the Mayflower hit the shores of the New World in 1620. However, this process has been done by different levels of government at different times. From your own article:

"The federal government assumed control of immigration on April 18, 1890"

Here are the serious questions for you Correll:

A) Where, in the Constitution, does the federal government have the authority to tell the states who can and cannot come to that respective state?

B) PRIOR to 1890 the federal government did not have control over immigration. Obviously if someone were regulating the flow of foreigners and it was not the federal government, somebody did it for that period between 1789 and 1890 A FULL CENTURY OF REGULATION WITHOUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BY YOUR OWN LINK!

C) HOW did the federal government, after a century end up controlling the flow of foreigners? Which Amendment changed that?

5) Aside from your bold assertions that you've done stuff you most assuredly have not, you have added to your abject stupidity by saying I'm against paying Americans high wages. In fact, I drafted legislation that I propose to my congresscritters twice each year to give strong incentives to employers to hire Americans and pay higher wages. You continue to lie about proving me wrong - YOU NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL and you lie to yourself about me. NOBODY is buying your bullshit. Not even you...

6) Whether you are a "fringe" group or just one of their bitches is irrelevant. National Socialist solutions prevail and you are all in. You won't even consider anything else - which is why you are spreading the horseshit thick as you can on this thread and LYING like a New York politician. Real change NEVER happens among the masses

7) I blame you for high taxes because you lie like Hell about me and YOU propose a government so big that the average person could never resist a tyrannical government. You endorse a plank out of the Communist Manifesto by falsely accusing foreigners of not paying that unconstitutional tax. You sabotaged our efforts to get rid of the income tax, the IRS, and make the tax burden equal on all (regardless of immigration status, income level, etc.) YOU are part of that bunch that want Orwellian National ID tied to your Socialist Surveillance Number ...ooops "Social Security Number." That is two points you are, by your own admission, advocating socialism on

8) Did you realize that in 1953 we had the lowest unemployment rates in U.S. history and people, like you, wanted a mass deportation - and so we did... and by the end of 1954 our unemployment rate DOUBLED in under five years and stayed above that 1953 level until recently???

1. We, as Americans have the right to self determination. A big part of that is having the right to decide who joins our community. When people enter illegally and stay, that right is violated. You support that.


2. When you want to let people (mostly third world) walk across the border, against our wishes and join our society, you are supporting this nation being turned into a Third World shithole.

3. That we have the power to send some one home, maybe if we catch them, does not mean they are under our jurisdiction, and I've heard of quite a lot of those illegals ILLEGALLY copying someone ELSE'S numbers, often messing with their lives, a lot. They are here illegally, send their asses home.


4. And just like that, you dropped your claim about Ted Kennedy coming up with the idea of immigration control. You don't like Federal control? Interesting. Let's talk about that a lot. AFTER WE SEND THE ILLEGALS HOME.

5. You support having Americans compete against unlimited, cheap and/or illegal labor. That has and will guarantee low wages for American workers.



6. Your desire to smear ideas, with the logical fallacy of attacking the messenger, is just a way to avoid dealing with the actual pros and cons of the issue.

7. The government was big way before I was born. NOT deporting the illegals, nor NOT building a Wall, is not going to make it smaller.


8. And now you just dropped the claim that David Duke invented it, thanks. DEPORT THEM ALL.

1) You are right. I do think that each community and each state makes their own decisions. So, if Californication wants 75 percent undocumented foreigners, have at it. Don't expect me to pay for it

2) Just because someone comes here does not and should not make them a part of our society. THAT is one of your major weaknesses

3) The United States Supreme Court has said you are wrong on jurisdiction:

Plyler v. Doe

4) You are lying out your ass again. You show me where I said that Ted Kennedy "came up with the idea of immigration control" and I'll kiss your ass on the main street of America and give you two weeks to draw a crowd. You are acting like a moron and lying out your ever loving ass. Kennedy forced through the current laws that were designed to take away from the posterity and then implode.

5) Another lie and I'm not going to respond to that. You would not make that allegation with your real name attached and that allegation destroys your credibility and is an admission on your part that you cannot sustain your arguments

6) I've dealt with the pros and cons of the issue without smearing a single soul. I've not said anything about you that YOU did not say about yourself. You've tried lying, deflecting and making the most idiotic allegations ever heard. Quite frankly, since you cannot make an honest statement, you've pretty well displayed how low your intelligence is

7) Your side has already spent over TWO TRILLION DOLLARS on your idiotic fantasy. You, by your own admission, have nothing to show for it. Cry me a river

8) I have dropped no such claim about David Duke. You lie like HELL. I challenged you to name an American who advocated it and lobbied for it in the United States and you could not come up with a single solitary name. You are fucked up and a liar. I accept your concession of defeat.

1. California's illegals are not staying in California. They are changing this nation, without our consent.

2. I agree completely, but by current rules that is what happens, so send the fuckers home.

3. Supreme Court has been wrong before. Send the fuckers home.

4. Your words from above, "The ONLY thing regulating the process is laws pushed by Ted Kennedy and "

5. You support letting the illegals waltz into California, as though they stay there. Once they are here, they compete with Americans for jobs.

6. In our culture calling someone a nazi is the greatest smear and you have done that over and over again, based on nothing.

7. I assume the two trillion number includes all border security over a long period of time. It is dishonest to put that all on me.

8. My position is not based on how else was for border security and/or a wall.

I responded to you. Time for some answers Correll. Put up or shut up. I stand by what I said, but it still isn't what you claim. You got reading comprehension issues?

I want some answers for a change. I'm not calling everyone a Nazi... just YOU. And the TWO TRILLION is on YOU. You want to be the spokesman - you want to be the big cheese.

So, now answer my questions.

You lumped the Tea Party in with the freaking Nazis.


What questions do you want answers to?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

I'm tired of your bullshit Correll. You claim I want people working for low wages and would turn America over to the third world. You're never going to have the intestinal fortitude to say shit like that to my face, so I'm calling you on your shit.

Until you've manned the border, you are a poseur looking for relevance here. Not on my watch. You cannot answer basic questions, so you don't get any more free answers.

You hang with neo-Nazis and make outlandish claims and you refuse to answer simple questions. If / when the SHTF, those who believe what you do are the first to go to jail, Hell, prison, or a grave - unless you become a snitch bitch. Let's rock - got some answers? You wanted a fight. Your solutions are not solutions. They are helpful ways to get your American brethren killed.

 

[Correll]

David Duke organizes Border Watch in 1977:

That time David Duke and KKK patrolled the Mexican border…

David Duke and Donald Trump both belonged to the Reform Party at the same time, which demonstrates a unity of ideology:
....

No, it does not.

Now you sound like a fifth grader. A denial doesn't refute anything. ....

A political party is generally a very large and general organization. Look at John McCain and Donald Trump. They were both republicans at the same time. By your logic, they share an "unity of ideology".


WHich is obvious nonsense.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

1) I don't know what point you're alleging I'm dodging, but spit it out. What does that even mean that "illegal immigration" violates your Right to Self Determination (sic?)

2) I realize that this is going to come as a great big fucking surprise to you since you don't pay attention, but in many of my long posts I have stated many many times that America cannot be all things to all people and what America is about is stated in the Preamble to the Constitution:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity..."

Can you read that bolded portion? Where do you see me advocating for turning America into a third world country? Take a look at this country's FIRST naturalization law (I've posted it over 20 times.) Where does it allow for the third world to gain equal political status with you or I?

3) If people were not subject to the jurisdiction of our laws, we would have no jurisdiction to deport them. As for taxes, the IRS is a quasi private corporation and they don't give a shit who you are or where you come from. If money passes hands, they want their piece of the pie. So again, Individual Taxpayer Identification Number. Immigration status is no bar to owing the tax according to the IRS.

If / when people commit crimes, they are prosecuted regardless of their immigration status. OTOH, they also have the Right to a presumption of innocence due to the 14th Amendment (which, BTW, I believe to have been illegally ratified)

4) America has had foreigners regulated since the Mayflower hit the shores of the New World in 1620. However, this process has been done by different levels of government at different times. From your own article:

"The federal government assumed control of immigration on April 18, 1890"

Here are the serious questions for you Correll:

A) Where, in the Constitution, does the federal government have the authority to tell the states who can and cannot come to that respective state?

B) PRIOR to 1890 the federal government did not have control over immigration. Obviously if someone were regulating the flow of foreigners and it was not the federal government, somebody did it for that period between 1789 and 1890 A FULL CENTURY OF REGULATION WITHOUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BY YOUR OWN LINK!

C) HOW did the federal government, after a century end up controlling the flow of foreigners? Which Amendment changed that?

5) Aside from your bold assertions that you've done stuff you most assuredly have not, you have added to your abject stupidity by saying I'm against paying Americans high wages. In fact, I drafted legislation that I propose to my congresscritters twice each year to give strong incentives to employers to hire Americans and pay higher wages. You continue to lie about proving me wrong - YOU NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL and you lie to yourself about me. NOBODY is buying your bullshit. Not even you...

6) Whether you are a "fringe" group or just one of their bitches is irrelevant. National Socialist solutions prevail and you are all in. You won't even consider anything else - which is why you are spreading the horseshit thick as you can on this thread and LYING like a New York politician. Real change NEVER happens among the masses

7) I blame you for high taxes because you lie like Hell about me and YOU propose a government so big that the average person could never resist a tyrannical government. You endorse a plank out of the Communist Manifesto by falsely accusing foreigners of not paying that unconstitutional tax. You sabotaged our efforts to get rid of the income tax, the IRS, and make the tax burden equal on all (regardless of immigration status, income level, etc.) YOU are part of that bunch that want Orwellian National ID tied to your Socialist Surveillance Number ...ooops "Social Security Number." That is two points you are, by your own admission, advocating socialism on

8) Did you realize that in 1953 we had the lowest unemployment rates in U.S. history and people, like you, wanted a mass deportation - and so we did... and by the end of 1954 our unemployment rate DOUBLED in under five years and stayed above that 1953 level until recently???

1. We, as Americans have the right to self determination. A big part of that is having the right to decide who joins our community. When people enter illegally and stay, that right is violated. You support that.


2. When you want to let people (mostly third world) walk across the border, against our wishes and join our society, you are supporting this nation being turned into a Third World shithole.

3. That we have the power to send some one home, maybe if we catch them, does not mean they are under our jurisdiction, and I've heard of quite a lot of those illegals ILLEGALLY copying someone ELSE'S numbers, often messing with their lives, a lot. They are here illegally, send their asses home.


4. And just like that, you dropped your claim about Ted Kennedy coming up with the idea of immigration control. You don't like Federal control? Interesting. Let's talk about that a lot. AFTER WE SEND THE ILLEGALS HOME.

5. You support having Americans compete against unlimited, cheap and/or illegal labor. That has and will guarantee low wages for American workers.



6. Your desire to smear ideas, with the logical fallacy of attacking the messenger, is just a way to avoid dealing with the actual pros and cons of the issue.

7. The government was big way before I was born. NOT deporting the illegals, nor NOT building a Wall, is not going to make it smaller.


8. And now you just dropped the claim that David Duke invented it, thanks. DEPORT THEM ALL.

1) You are right. I do think that each community and each state makes their own decisions. So, if Californication wants 75 percent undocumented foreigners, have at it. Don't expect me to pay for it

2) Just because someone comes here does not and should not make them a part of our society. THAT is one of your major weaknesses

3) The United States Supreme Court has said you are wrong on jurisdiction:

Plyler v. Doe

4) You are lying out your ass again. You show me where I said that Ted Kennedy "came up with the idea of immigration control" and I'll kiss your ass on the main street of America and give you two weeks to draw a crowd. You are acting like a moron and lying out your ever loving ass. Kennedy forced through the current laws that were designed to take away from the posterity and then implode.

5) Another lie and I'm not going to respond to that. You would not make that allegation with your real name attached and that allegation destroys your credibility and is an admission on your part that you cannot sustain your arguments

6) I've dealt with the pros and cons of the issue without smearing a single soul. I've not said anything about you that YOU did not say about yourself. You've tried lying, deflecting and making the most idiotic allegations ever heard. Quite frankly, since you cannot make an honest statement, you've pretty well displayed how low your intelligence is

7) Your side has already spent over TWO TRILLION DOLLARS on your idiotic fantasy. You, by your own admission, have nothing to show for it. Cry me a river

8) I have dropped no such claim about David Duke. You lie like HELL. I challenged you to name an American who advocated it and lobbied for it in the United States and you could not come up with a single solitary name. You are fucked up and a liar. I accept your concession of defeat.

1. California's illegals are not staying in California. They are changing this nation, without our consent.

2. I agree completely, but by current rules that is what happens, so send the fuckers home.

3. Supreme Court has been wrong before. Send the fuckers home.

4. Your words from above, "The ONLY thing regulating the process is laws pushed by Ted Kennedy and "

5. You support letting the illegals waltz into California, as though they stay there. Once they are here, they compete with Americans for jobs.

6. In our culture calling someone a nazi is the greatest smear and you have done that over and over again, based on nothing.

7. I assume the two trillion number includes all border security over a long period of time. It is dishonest to put that all on me.

8. My position is not based on how else was for border security and/or a wall.

I responded to you. Time for some answers Correll. Put up or shut up. I stand by what I said, but it still isn't what you claim. You got reading comprehension issues?

I want some answers for a change. I'm not calling everyone a Nazi... just YOU. And the TWO TRILLION is on YOU. You want to be the spokesman - you want to be the big cheese.

So, now answer my questions.

You lumped the Tea Party in with the freaking Nazis.


What questions do you want answers to?

Yes, the Tea Party supported Hitler style National ID among other things. They fucked the old guard that had the fight won. Your point? Let me try again dumb ass:

America has had foreigners regulated since the Mayflower hit the shores of the New World in 1620. However, this process has been done by different levels of government at different times. From your own article:

"The federal government assumed control of immigration on April 18, 1890"

Here are the serious questions for you Correll:

A) Where, in the Constitution, does the federal government have the authority to tell the states who can and cannot come to that respective state?

B) PRIOR to 1890 the federal government did not have control over immigration. Obviously if someone were regulating the flow of foreigners and it was not the federal government, somebody did it for that period between 1789 and 1890 A FULL CENTURY OF REGULATION WITHOUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BY YOUR OWN LINK!

C) HOW did the federal government, after a century end up controlling the flow of foreigners? Which Amendment changed that?

Tell me who, before David Duke, wanted the same kind of border control you advocate? Give me a name. Tell me someone who says they are "for" open borders. You wanted a discussion. Spit it out. OR were you full of shit and now realize it? That deal with two personas was a real low.

So WTF dude, can you make a simple answer? Do you know what the Rule of Law is? When you've DONE something, you might be able to earn the Right to criticize me. Until then, you're desperately looking for support from anybody dumb enough to enter the fray without the FACTS.

 

[Correll]

I'm tired of your bullshit Correll. You claim I want people working for low wages and would turn America over to the third world. You're never going to have the intestinal fortitude to say shit like that to my face, so I'm calling you on your shit.

Until you've manned the border, you are a poseur looking for relevance here. Not on my watch. You cannot answer basic questions, so you don't get any more free answers.

You hang with neo-Nazis and make outlandish claims and you refuse to answer simple questions. If / when the SHTF, those who believe what you do are the first to go to jail, Hell, prison, or a grave - unless you become a snitch bitch. Let's rock - got some answers? You wanted a fight. Your solutions are not solutions. They are helpful ways to get your American brethren killed.

I've made no outlandish claims.


You've tried to lump the Tea Party, and many other good people, in with Nazis.


THAT is an "outlandish claim".


Hell, accusing me of "hanging out with neo-Nazis" because I want a Wall, THAT is an outlandish claim.



Nazis are not infamous because of their good border security. Building a wall and sending people home is not the same as sending them to the ovens, and it is outlandish of you to imply otherwise.