Roe v. Wade will be overturned soon, and then abortion will be outlawed in most states...

[pknopp]

They absolutely are and on top of that you know they are.

What does that have to do with what the discussion was?

So you believe that a zygote is life even though it will never attach to a uterus and go through the other 2 stages of gestation.

I pointed out to you that a zygote isn't life. Especially when it's ectopic. I get the feeling you don't know what that is. Look it up. As I said. There are only 2 outcomes for that zygote. It will never become life. The only thing it will ever do is either kill a woman or if she's lucky, leave her infertile. It doesn't matter if that zygote has ruptured or not. It will always be aborted.

The question is, do you believe the woman should die or live? If she lives, should her fertility be taken from her so she can't go on to have children later?

It's not right to lump all pregnancies and all stages of pregnancy into one category and the most extreme.

What you're saying is that a woman has no right to life. That she has no right to save her own life if her pregnancy goes wrong.

I disagree. So does our society, science and law.

I don't want to see tens of thousands of women die needlessly because her pregnancy goes wrong.

Obviously you do.

Its a life and as I said, you know it is. I'm not interested in your ramblings.

No I don't know it is. In fact, I know it isn't.

Obviously you aren't interested in honest facts and you won't take the time to look up the meaning of ectopic pregnancy.

So I guess I'm going to have to further educate you.

An ectopic pregnancy is a zygote, that never made it to the uterus to attach to grow. It's stuck either inside or outside the tube. That zygote will never reach the uterus to attach and never become life. All it will do is become bacteria infection that keeps getting worse and worse until it ruptures, gets into the blood stream and kills the woman. If it's caught soon enough she might not die but will be left infertile.

The only thing it's going to do is either kill the woman or leave her infertile if she doesn't die.

Do you have any education or knowledge of pregnancy or the gestation of life? Do have any education or knowledge of science of the development of life? What can and does go wrong with a pregnancy? It doesn't seem so to me because you don't accept reality and truth.

You can live your life believing what you want. You don't have the right to force that belief on anyone else.

You don't have the right to murder women just because you have a different belief from our society, science and the law.

That's your biggest problem. The truth, reality, science, the law and our society just isn't on your side in this.

Which is why you don't want to read scientific and medical fact and call it ramblings.

I believe in choice. If you want to die from an ectopic pregnancy, go for it. That's your right to make that choice. You have no right to force it on anyone else. That's real murder of a living, breathing human being.

Aborting an ectopic pregnancy isn't killing anything alive. It's saving the life of a living woman and hopefully going on to having children later.

Thank you. Great post.

Thank you.

I couldn't believe the pathetic reply that person had to that post.

That person's reply was bacteria is life.

Can they get any more ridiculous and pathetic?

I guess that person wants to outlaw all antibiotics and anything that will kill bacteria.

That person believes that bacteria have more right to life than human beings do.

Wow. That person should have done what I did when I read it's ridiculous reply, not replied.

Science isn't your strong point.

 

[initforme]

Why aren't pro lifers promoting contraception methods as one of the greatest things ever? They cut down on the number of abortions. Think of all the pregnancies that have been prevented which is a good thing.

 

[satrebil]

Why aren't pro lifers promoting contraception methods as one of the greatest things ever? They cut down on the number of abortions. Think of all the pregnancies that have been prevented which is a good thing.

We do. It's really only the fringe, die-hard bible thumpers that abhor contraception. But of course that's all you hear about from the media.

What I find humorous is the left's claim that "contraception needs to be more readily accessible" as if rubbers aren't already available at every farkin' gas station across the country.

 

[martybegan]

Sorry, but that makes the person in question an asshole.

Figures you would bond with that.

Happens to be your opinion. When you grow a uterus, your opinion might even count.

The reality- no one is having abortions at 8 months without a damned good reason. The only reason why this is an issue is some Christian nuts go dumpster diving in the Medical Waster Containers and find something that looks like a baby if you slap it togethe

my opinion counts regardless.

you are a pathetic human being, who will make the world a better place when you are 6 feet under it.

 

[SaxxyBlues]

Ban media coverage of abortion. Done. Abortion no longer an issue in America. The right to interfere in private matters has ended. Keep your opinions/care in your home.

 

[JoeB131]

So I should have free reign to walk down the street, punching pregnant women in the gut and killing their offspring, and face nothing more than an assault charge?

You people are fucked in the head.

Actually, that's all I would be guilty of, so, um, yeah.

 

[JoeB131]

my opinion counts regardless.

you are a pathetic human being, who will make the world a better place when you are 6 feet under it.

Naw, Pathetic is letting the rich fuck over the working class because you are worried about Medical Waste.

The ironic thing is, you guys have probably caused more abortions as women are putting off making babies until their 30's.

 

[martybegan]

my opinion counts regardless.

you are a pathetic human being, who will make the world a better place when you are 6 feet under it.

Naw, Pathetic is letting the rich fuck over the working class because you are worried about Medical Waste.

The ironic thing is, you guys have probably caused more abortions as women are putting off making babies until their 30's.

blah blah blah Marxist blather, blah blah blah.

and I would LOVE to hear how capitalism is causing women to have kids later in life. (/sarcasm)

Go butt fuck bernie.

 

[Faun]

Do you not see the error in your logic?

Imagine a couple where the woman gets pregnant. She wants the child, the man doesn't. So he slugs her in the gut a few times and kills it. She has zero legal recourse for her dead child. Or better yet, you can have some lunatic running around assaulting pregnant women and killing their unborn just because that's how he gets his rocks off. Now both her and the child's father have no recourse.

Nonsense. Assault is illegal. And it's right and proper to hold the assailant accountable for the damages.

So instead of "government having dominion over a woman's body" you're telling women they have full control over their body, but so does everyone else. And if THEY decide to kill her child, tough shit. This is the kind of world you want? Because that's exactly what you're going to get.

I want the kind of world where the contents of my body are none of your fucking business.

"Nonsense. Assault is illegal. And it's right and proper to hold the assailant accountable for the damages."

The penalties for assault and homicide aren't remotely similar and you damn well know it. 1st degree intentional homicide nearly always carries a life sentence. You're suggesting that a woman or couple could have their unborn child murdered by a 3rd party and be out in 5 years to do it again. Way to tell a woman her "choice" actually means fuck all because any random asshole can take it away from her for the proverbial slap on the wrist. What a wonderful fucking society you propose.

"I want the kind of world where the contents of my body are none of your fucking business."

Well that's just too goddamn bad now isn't it? Government has always regulated "your body" and will continue to do so. It's why drunk driving is illegal. It's why heroin is illegal. It's why you can't sell a kidney. Most of humanity agrees with this. Do you know why? Because we don't want to live in the fucking cesspool your fantasy utopia would be.

And according to your logic, a woman can suffer a miscarriage and face life in prison if a jury disapproves of her lifestyle and decides she's responsible.

View attachment 305306

 

[Faun]

Do you not see the error in your logic?

Imagine a couple where the woman gets pregnant. She wants the child, the man doesn't. So he slugs her in the gut a few times and kills it. She has zero legal recourse for her dead child. Or better yet, you can have some lunatic running around assaulting pregnant women and killing their unborn just because that's how he gets his rocks off. Now both her and the child's father have no recourse.

Nonsense. Assault is illegal. And it's right and proper to hold the assailant accountable for the damages.

So instead of "government having dominion over a woman's body" you're telling women they have full control over their body, but so does everyone else. And if THEY decide to kill her child, tough shit. This is the kind of world you want? Because that's exactly what you're going to get.

I want the kind of world where the contents of my body are none of your fucking business.

"Nonsense. Assault is illegal. And it's right and proper to hold the assailant accountable for the damages."

The penalties for assault and homicide aren't remotely similar and you damn well know it. 1st degree intentional homicide nearly always carries a life sentence. You're suggesting that a woman or couple could have their unborn child murdered by a 3rd party and be out in 5 years to do it again. Way to tell a woman her "choice" actually means fuck all because any random asshole can take it away from her for the proverbial slap on the wrist. What a wonderful fucking society you propose.
.

So lets follow this through logically.

IF as you propose- the fetus is a human, and causing a miscarriage is murder- then obviously every miscarriage will need to be investigated by a coroner to determine the cause of death- and whether the pregnant woman was culpable in anyway for the miscarriage.

We prosecute parents for negligent homicide for the deaths of their child for example leaving them in a car
The father of 1-year-old twins who died Friday after the police said he had left them in a hot car was charged with manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide

What about the woman who goes out drinking and miscarries? What about the woman who has a complicated pregnancy and is more active than her doctor recommends? What about the woman who just miscarries but the coroner doesn't approve of her lifestyle and suspects that could have caused the miscarriage.

If a fetus is legally a human being- then every miscarriage- even the one week old fetus that the woman may not even know she was pregnant with is a possible crime, and needs to be investigated like any other unexplained death of a child.


We can have laws that provide additional penalties if a crime results in the termination of a pregnancy- without having to call it murder.

But then again for a lot of abortion opponents- I don't doubt for a moment that they would be okay with requiring a criminal investigation of every miscarriage- because most of this is about taking control of a woman's body away from her.

You're ignoring the core requirement of virtually every criminal proceeding: Intent.

Imbecile.

Even killing someone unintentionally can be criminal if found to be negligent homicide.

Your position could lead to imprisonment of a woman who suffers a miscarriage if a jury decides her lifestyle caused it.

You're beyond nuts.

 

[SaxxyBlues]

I think the CDC needs to get it together for the good of all Americans. They should come up with a law saying information about abortion is harming Americans and, have the President sign a law for the good of all Americans, banning media coverage in the press. President Nixon did it with cigarette advertising.

 

[Faun]

Because the way the law is written is conflicted.

Virtually every state law that makes the death of a fetus homicide or manslaughter- also include provisions that exclude abortion from the law.

All of those laws are internally conflicted.

You're damn right it's conflicted.

Either a fetus is a person or it is not. If it is a person then it deserves equal protection under the law as guaranteed by the 14th Amendment. If it's not a person, then absolutely NOBODY should be held accountable for terminating one.

Make your choice.

Exactly. We have to draw the line somewhere. By my reckoning it's "location, location, location". If it's inside a person's body, it's not yet an independent entity and no one else's business.

Why stop there? Why not extend it to infants? They are just as dependent on another human being as any fetus. Do we get to kill them too?

Your logic is garbage.

No- they are not just as dependent on another human being as any fetus.

A 3 week fetus cannot survive outside the uterus- under any conditions- it literally requires a direct link to the pregnant woman to survive. It has no heart. It has no kidney. All of its functions are provided by the mother.

An infant can be feed and cared for by anyone. It has a pumping heart, it has lungs that process air.

Your logic is beyond garbage- it is frankly just propaganda lies.

"A 3 week fetus cannot survive outside the uterus- under any conditions- it literally requires a direct link to the pregnant woman to survive."

News flash: That's how our species propagates. Has been happening since the beginning of time. Why do you tards act like this is some alien concept?

"It has no heart. It has no kidney. All of its functions are provided by the mother."

If you want to base the right to life on organ function, then every single person currently in the hospital for a failing or dysfunctional organ is fair game to kill.

"An infant can be feed and cared for by anyone."

But it still requires the usage of someone's body to do it. Using your logic, who the hell are you to tell me I have to feed my infant child? What right do you have to dictate to me that I must expend the nutrients and energy of MY body to provide for him? So what if he dies without my care? My body, my right - right? If I don't want to feed him I don't have to.

"Your logic is beyond garbage- it is frankly just propaganda lies."

You're just buttmad because I've been kicking your ass and handing it to you and you know it. Your logic, when applied ANYwhere else on the human condition, completely falls apart. And you morons claim to be the "party of science".

"If you want to base the right to life on organ function, then every single person currently in the hospital for a failing or dysfunctional organ is fair game to kill."

Actually, folks on life support due to dysfunctional organs can be allowed to be taken off of life support and legally allowed to die.

Thanks for conceding that.

 

[SaxxyBlues]

What about genetics, things like delusional disorder and schizophrenia any illness that passes genetically. Can people plant their eggs is the vagina of another woman.

 

[SaxxyBlues]

 

[Staidhup]

Here we go again, when you have nothing to contribute resort back to Roe vs Wade and racism. So freaking pathetic. FYI in order to overturn Roe V Wade one must first have a case the Supreme Court would consider to review, which requires prior exhaustive lower court and appellate court review. Sounds like someone is desperate.

 

[SaxxyBlues]

 

[Faun]

If she's pregnant...

LOCK HER UP!!

 

[satrebil]

Do you not see the error in your logic?

Imagine a couple where the woman gets pregnant. She wants the child, the man doesn't. So he slugs her in the gut a few times and kills it. She has zero legal recourse for her dead child. Or better yet, you can have some lunatic running around assaulting pregnant women and killing their unborn just because that's how he gets his rocks off. Now both her and the child's father have no recourse.

Nonsense. Assault is illegal. And it's right and proper to hold the assailant accountable for the damages.

So instead of "government having dominion over a woman's body" you're telling women they have full control over their body, but so does everyone else. And if THEY decide to kill her child, tough shit. This is the kind of world you want? Because that's exactly what you're going to get.

I want the kind of world where the contents of my body are none of your fucking business.

"Nonsense. Assault is illegal. And it's right and proper to hold the assailant accountable for the damages."

The penalties for assault and homicide aren't remotely similar and you damn well know it. 1st degree intentional homicide nearly always carries a life sentence. You're suggesting that a woman or couple could have their unborn child murdered by a 3rd party and be out in 5 years to do it again. Way to tell a woman her "choice" actually means fuck all because any random asshole can take it away from her for the proverbial slap on the wrist. What a wonderful fucking society you propose.
.

So lets follow this through logically.

IF as you propose- the fetus is a human, and causing a miscarriage is murder- then obviously every miscarriage will need to be investigated by a coroner to determine the cause of death- and whether the pregnant woman was culpable in anyway for the miscarriage.

We prosecute parents for negligent homicide for the deaths of their child for example leaving them in a car
The father of 1-year-old twins who died Friday after the police said he had left them in a hot car was charged with manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide

What about the woman who goes out drinking and miscarries? What about the woman who has a complicated pregnancy and is more active than her doctor recommends? What about the woman who just miscarries but the coroner doesn't approve of her lifestyle and suspects that could have caused the miscarriage.

If a fetus is legally a human being- then every miscarriage- even the one week old fetus that the woman may not even know she was pregnant with is a possible crime, and needs to be investigated like any other unexplained death of a child.


We can have laws that provide additional penalties if a crime results in the termination of a pregnancy- without having to call it murder.

But then again for a lot of abortion opponents- I don't doubt for a moment that they would be okay with requiring a criminal investigation of every miscarriage- because most of this is about taking control of a woman's body away from her.

You're ignoring the core requirement of virtually every criminal proceeding: Intent.

Imbecile.

Even killing someone unintentionally can be criminal if found to be negligent homicide.

Your position could lead to imprisonment of a woman who suffers a miscarriage if a jury decides her lifestyle caused it.

You're beyond nuts.

You're damn right it's conflicted.

Either a fetus is a person or it is not. If it is a person then it deserves equal protection under the law as guaranteed by the 14th Amendment. If it's not a person, then absolutely NOBODY should be held accountable for terminating one.

Make your choice.

Exactly. We have to draw the line somewhere. By my reckoning it's "location, location, location". If it's inside a person's body, it's not yet an independent entity and no one else's business.

Why stop there? Why not extend it to infants? They are just as dependent on another human being as any fetus. Do we get to kill them too?

Your logic is garbage.

No- they are not just as dependent on another human being as any fetus.

A 3 week fetus cannot survive outside the uterus- under any conditions- it literally requires a direct link to the pregnant woman to survive. It has no heart. It has no kidney. All of its functions are provided by the mother.

An infant can be feed and cared for by anyone. It has a pumping heart, it has lungs that process air.

Your logic is beyond garbage- it is frankly just propaganda lies.

"A 3 week fetus cannot survive outside the uterus- under any conditions- it literally requires a direct link to the pregnant woman to survive."

News flash: That's how our species propagates. Has been happening since the beginning of time. Why do you tards act like this is some alien concept?

"It has no heart. It has no kidney. All of its functions are provided by the mother."

If you want to base the right to life on organ function, then every single person currently in the hospital for a failing or dysfunctional organ is fair game to kill.

"An infant can be feed and cared for by anyone."

But it still requires the usage of someone's body to do it. Using your logic, who the hell are you to tell me I have to feed my infant child? What right do you have to dictate to me that I must expend the nutrients and energy of MY body to provide for him? So what if he dies without my care? My body, my right - right? If I don't want to feed him I don't have to.

"Your logic is beyond garbage- it is frankly just propaganda lies."

You're just buttmad because I've been kicking your ass and handing it to you and you know it. Your logic, when applied ANYwhere else on the human condition, completely falls apart. And you morons claim to be the "party of science".

"If you want to base the right to life on organ function, then every single person currently in the hospital for a failing or dysfunctional organ is fair game to kill."

Actually, folks on life support due to dysfunctional organs can be allowed to be taken off of life support and legally allowed to die.

Thanks for conceding that.

 

[JoeB131]

and I would LOVE to hear how capitalism is causing women to have kids later in life. (/sarcasm)

Let's see.

Old model. Dad graduated high school at 18, joined a union. Married his high school sweetheart. Started having kids.

New Model... Mom and Dad both graduate college at 22. Neither one of them gets a good enough job to start a family, so they end up living at home until they're 26. They spend years paying down college debt and getting established in their careers. They put off having babies. Have a couple of abortions because "now isn't the right time". Wait until they are 30, desperately scramble before the Biological Clock runs down, hope they don't have a Down Syndrome Retard they end up having to abort.

This by you is a good system?

 

[Faun]

Nonsense. Assault is illegal. And it's right and proper to hold the assailant accountable for the damages.
I want the kind of world where the contents of my body are none of your fucking business.

"Nonsense. Assault is illegal. And it's right and proper to hold the assailant accountable for the damages."

The penalties for assault and homicide aren't remotely similar and you damn well know it. 1st degree intentional homicide nearly always carries a life sentence. You're suggesting that a woman or couple could have their unborn child murdered by a 3rd party and be out in 5 years to do it again. Way to tell a woman her "choice" actually means fuck all because any random asshole can take it away from her for the proverbial slap on the wrist. What a wonderful fucking society you propose.
.

So lets follow this through logically.

IF as you propose- the fetus is a human, and causing a miscarriage is murder- then obviously every miscarriage will need to be investigated by a coroner to determine the cause of death- and whether the pregnant woman was culpable in anyway for the miscarriage.

We prosecute parents for negligent homicide for the deaths of their child for example leaving them in a car
The father of 1-year-old twins who died Friday after the police said he had left them in a hot car was charged with manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide

What about the woman who goes out drinking and miscarries? What about the woman who has a complicated pregnancy and is more active than her doctor recommends? What about the woman who just miscarries but the coroner doesn't approve of her lifestyle and suspects that could have caused the miscarriage.

If a fetus is legally a human being- then every miscarriage- even the one week old fetus that the woman may not even know she was pregnant with is a possible crime, and needs to be investigated like any other unexplained death of a child.


We can have laws that provide additional penalties if a crime results in the termination of a pregnancy- without having to call it murder.

But then again for a lot of abortion opponents- I don't doubt for a moment that they would be okay with requiring a criminal investigation of every miscarriage- because most of this is about taking control of a woman's body away from her.

You're ignoring the core requirement of virtually every criminal proceeding: Intent.

Imbecile.

Even killing someone unintentionally can be criminal if found to be negligent homicide.

Your position could lead to imprisonment of a woman who suffers a miscarriage if a jury decides her lifestyle caused it.

You're beyond nuts.

Exactly. We have to draw the line somewhere. By my reckoning it's "location, location, location". If it's inside a person's body, it's not yet an independent entity and no one else's business.

Why stop there? Why not extend it to infants? They are just as dependent on another human being as any fetus. Do we get to kill them too?

Your logic is garbage.

No- they are not just as dependent on another human being as any fetus.

A 3 week fetus cannot survive outside the uterus- under any conditions- it literally requires a direct link to the pregnant woman to survive. It has no heart. It has no kidney. All of its functions are provided by the mother.

An infant can be feed and cared for by anyone. It has a pumping heart, it has lungs that process air.

Your logic is beyond garbage- it is frankly just propaganda lies.

"A 3 week fetus cannot survive outside the uterus- under any conditions- it literally requires a direct link to the pregnant woman to survive."

News flash: That's how our species propagates. Has been happening since the beginning of time. Why do you tards act like this is some alien concept?

"It has no heart. It has no kidney. All of its functions are provided by the mother."

If you want to base the right to life on organ function, then every single person currently in the hospital for a failing or dysfunctional organ is fair game to kill.

"An infant can be feed and cared for by anyone."

But it still requires the usage of someone's body to do it. Using your logic, who the hell are you to tell me I have to feed my infant child? What right do you have to dictate to me that I must expend the nutrients and energy of MY body to provide for him? So what if he dies without my care? My body, my right - right? If I don't want to feed him I don't have to.

"Your logic is beyond garbage- it is frankly just propaganda lies."

You're just buttmad because I've been kicking your ass and handing it to you and you know it. Your logic, when applied ANYwhere else on the human condition, completely falls apart. And you morons claim to be the "party of science".

"If you want to base the right to life on organ function, then every single person currently in the hospital for a failing or dysfunctional organ is fair game to kill."

Actually, folks on life support due to dysfunctional organs can be allowed to be taken off of life support and legally allowed to die.

Thanks for conceding that.

View attachment 305647