Rome fell, will we also fall?

[Wildman]

...yeah we will fall.

we will NOT fall or fail, but IF the cocker in chief were to have another term we (the U.S.A.) would become the U.S.L.S.A. (United Socialist Liberal States of America)

 

[Wildman]

Take two, and don't call us in the morning, just STFU.

damn good advice, give it a try, if two don't help take the whole damn bottle and wash it down with nitric acid.

 

[Political Junky]

It seems we are in the process of falling. Our infrastructure is crumbling.
FDR and then Eisenhower built the infrastructure, putting people to work in the process. They made the US a world power.

 

[Redfish]

The 47% have their slice, and its being provided free by the other 53%. And, for the record, there are more liberals in the top 1% than there are conservatives.

progressive ideologies always put all of the wealth and all of the power in a very small group of super elites and everyone else is kept in EQUAL misery as long as they do and think as directed by the elite few.

You have no idea what you are asking for.

Remember this post next time you are throwing your weight behind the wealthy and accusing the left of class warfare.

are you claiming that obama, the libs, and the dems have not been engaging in class warfare? Really ??

According to your earlier post the plutocrats are mostly liberals and the income inequality is all a progressive plot but you and others are quick to jump to the plutocrat's defense when progressives try to address it's corrosive effects on society. It didn't make sense to me so I was wondering if you could enlighten us with further explanation.

Taking away freedom is a progressive tenet. plutocracy is a socialist system. The problems you claim to be so worried about are the direct result of our move towards socialism over the last 100 years or so

The problems we have are a direct result of instituting "free market" trade policy since about 1980 or so. Most of our industrial base left to chase cheap slave labor around the developing world and no one on the right did a god damned thing to prevent it, in fact they facilitated it to a degree that could be considered economic treason if such a concept existed in conservative dogma.

LOL, thats some funny shit.

Manufacturing jobs left this country for two reasons: unions and taxes.

I do agree with you that we need a tariff system to keep cheap imports from competing with quality american products.

Democrats have controlled congress for most of the last 75 years, so the policies you complain about were mostly put in place by democrats (and liberal republicans).

 

[Redfish]

It seems we are in the process of falling. Our infrastructure is crumbling.
FDR and then Eisenhower built the infrastructure, putting people to work in the process. They made the US a world power.

our infrastructure is not crumbling, that is a dem/lib lie. Want to see crumbling infrastructure? visit Russia.

 

[occupied]

Remember this post next time you are throwing your weight behind the wealthy and accusing the left of class warfare.

are you claiming that obama, the libs, and the dems have not been engaging in class warfare? Really ??

According to your earlier post the plutocrats are mostly liberals and the income inequality is all a progressive plot but you and others are quick to jump to the plutocrat's defense when progressives try to address it's corrosive effects on society. It didn't make sense to me so I was wondering if you could enlighten us with further explanation.

Taking away freedom is a progressive tenet. plutocracy is a socialist system. The problems you claim to be so worried about are the direct result of our move towards socialism over the last 100 years or so

The problems we have are a direct result of instituting "free market" trade policy since about 1980 or so. Most of our industrial base left to chase cheap slave labor around the developing world and no one on the right did a god damned thing to prevent it, in fact they facilitated it to a degree that could be considered economic treason if such a concept existed in conservative dogma.

LOL, thats some funny shit.

Manufacturing jobs left this country for two reasons: unions and taxes.

I do agree with you that we need a tariff system to keep cheat imports from competing with quality american products.

Democrats have controlled congress for most of the last 75 years, so the policies you complain about were mostly put in place by democrats (and liberal republicans).

Don't blame our formerly high standard of living and generous wages of the working class for that. It's the thing we should be aiming for, not trying to avoid. The "free market" people somehow thought it would be good for American workers to directly compete with third world slave labor and our wages and benefits fell and have never recovered. I wonder how they thought we could have a vibrant economy when the working class no longer has significant disposable income. As for who supports "free market" reforms take a look at who supports the Trans-Pacific partnership.

 

[Political Junky]

It seems we are in the process of falling. Our infrastructure is crumbling.
FDR and then Eisenhower built the infrastructure, putting people to work in the process. They made the US a world power.

our infrastructure is not crumbling, that is a dem/lib lie. Want to see crumbling infrastructure? visit Russia.

Bullshit -

 

[Redfish]

are you claiming that obama, the libs, and the dems have not been engaging in class warfare? Really ??

According to your earlier post the plutocrats are mostly liberals and the income inequality is all a progressive plot but you and others are quick to jump to the plutocrat's defense when progressives try to address it's corrosive effects on society. It didn't make sense to me so I was wondering if you could enlighten us with further explanation.

Taking away freedom is a progressive tenet. plutocracy is a socialist system. The problems you claim to be so worried about are the direct result of our move towards socialism over the last 100 years or so

The problems we have are a direct result of instituting "free market" trade policy since about 1980 or so. Most of our industrial base left to chase cheap slave labor around the developing world and no one on the right did a god damned thing to prevent it, in fact they facilitated it to a degree that could be considered economic treason if such a concept existed in conservative dogma.

LOL, thats some funny shit.

Manufacturing jobs left this country for two reasons: unions and taxes.

I do agree with you that we need a tariff system to keep cheat imports from competing with quality american products.

Democrats have controlled congress for most of the last 75 years, so the policies you complain about were mostly put in place by democrats (and liberal republicans).

Don't blame our formerly high standard of living and generous wages of the working class for that. It's the thing we should be aiming for, not trying to avoid. The "free market" people somehow thought it would be good for American workers to directly compete with third world slave labor and our wages and benefits fell and have never recovered. I wonder how they thought we could have a vibrant economy when the working class no longer has significant disposable income. As for who supports "free market" reforms take a look at who supports the Trans-Pacific partnership.

Did I say I blamed the people? no

The government has created an anti- business environment wherein the only way some companies could survive was to leave this country. That is terrible policy and no other country on earth does such things.

These policies come from a liberal mindset that we should feel guilty for being rich and successful as a country and we need to punish ourselves for that. That is, of course, lunacy. But both parties brought that kind of thinking to DC.

Unions, while necessary in the beginning, gained way too much power and drove the prices for american goods out of the competitive range. We have the highest corporate tax rate in the world, and instead of talking about reducing it to help create american jobs, congress talks about making it even higher to "punish" the evil corporations.

Its self destructive and we citizens just sit around and watch the idiots in DC destroy this great country, it makes me very sad.

 

[Redfish]

It seems we are in the process of falling. Our infrastructure is crumbling.
FDR and then Eisenhower built the infrastructure, putting people to work in the process. They made the US a world power.

our infrastructure is not crumbling, that is a dem/lib lie. Want to see crumbling infrastructure? visit Russia.

Bullshit -

have you been to Russia? I have. Have you driven the US interstate highway system from coast to coast? I have. Have you used airports in our major cities ? Sure, we have some bridges that need work, and they should be maintained. But overall our infrastructure is the best in the world.

 

[rdean]

Republicans think we are an empire. No wonder they had no problem with invading Iraq.

 

[rdean]

If we keep following GOP policies, there is no doubt this country will fall. Look how fucked up Red States are. Look at what they did under Bush, Bush and Reagan. People only fight when there is something worth fighting for. What do Republicans bring to the table besides debt, war, ignorance and poor health. They are the true "Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse".

 

[occupied]

According to your earlier post the plutocrats are mostly liberals and the income inequality is all a progressive plot but you and others are quick to jump to the plutocrat's defense when progressives try to address it's corrosive effects on society. It didn't make sense to me so I was wondering if you could enlighten us with further explanation.

Taking away freedom is a progressive tenet. plutocracy is a socialist system. The problems you claim to be so worried about are the direct result of our move towards socialism over the last 100 years or so

The problems we have are a direct result of instituting "free market" trade policy since about 1980 or so. Most of our industrial base left to chase cheap slave labor around the developing world and no one on the right did a god damned thing to prevent it, in fact they facilitated it to a degree that could be considered economic treason if such a concept existed in conservative dogma.

LOL, thats some funny shit.

Manufacturing jobs left this country for two reasons: unions and taxes.

I do agree with you that we need a tariff system to keep cheat imports from competing with quality american products.

Democrats have controlled congress for most of the last 75 years, so the policies you complain about were mostly put in place by democrats (and liberal republicans).

Don't blame our formerly high standard of living and generous wages of the working class for that. It's the thing we should be aiming for, not trying to avoid. The "free market" people somehow thought it would be good for American workers to directly compete with third world slave labor and our wages and benefits fell and have never recovered. I wonder how they thought we could have a vibrant economy when the working class no longer has significant disposable income. As for who supports "free market" reforms take a look at who supports the Trans-Pacific partnership.

Did I say I blamed the people? no

The government has created an anti- business environment wherein the only way some companies could survive was to leave this country. That is terrible policy and no other country on earth does such things.

These policies come from a liberal mindset that we should feel guilty for being rich and successful as a country and we need to punish ourselves for that. That is, of course, lunacy. But both parties brought that kind of thinking to DC.

Unions, while necessary in the beginning, gained way too much power and drove the prices for american goods out of the competitive range. We have the highest corporate tax rate in the world, and instead of talking about reducing it to help create american jobs, congress talks about making it even higher to "punish" the evil corporations.

Its self destructive and we citizens just sit around and watch the idiots in DC destroy this great country, it makes me very sad.

OK since you think unions are unnecessary, how much further do we have to slide back towards the 1920s before they again become necessary? The average worker is now working 7+ hours of unpaid overtime, job and wage security is a thing of past, things like paid vacations and pensions are a rarity and wages have declined as productivity has skyrocketed. Things are going pretty good for the stockholders but the working class is being left behind. How long will the "unions are unnecessary" argument persist when the real picture is one where workers have not been so powerless since before the great depression?

 

[Redfish]

Taking away freedom is a progressive tenet. plutocracy is a socialist system. The problems you claim to be so worried about are the direct result of our move towards socialism over the last 100 years or so

The problems we have are a direct result of instituting "free market" trade policy since about 1980 or so. Most of our industrial base left to chase cheap slave labor around the developing world and no one on the right did a god damned thing to prevent it, in fact they facilitated it to a degree that could be considered economic treason if such a concept existed in conservative dogma.

LOL, thats some funny shit.

Manufacturing jobs left this country for two reasons: unions and taxes.

I do agree with you that we need a tariff system to keep cheat imports from competing with quality american products.

Democrats have controlled congress for most of the last 75 years, so the policies you complain about were mostly put in place by democrats (and liberal republicans).

Don't blame our formerly high standard of living and generous wages of the working class for that. It's the thing we should be aiming for, not trying to avoid. The "free market" people somehow thought it would be good for American workers to directly compete with third world slave labor and our wages and benefits fell and have never recovered. I wonder how they thought we could have a vibrant economy when the working class no longer has significant disposable income. As for who supports "free market" reforms take a look at who supports the Trans-Pacific partnership.

Did I say I blamed the people? no

The government has created an anti- business environment wherein the only way some companies could survive was to leave this country. That is terrible policy and no other country on earth does such things.

These policies come from a liberal mindset that we should feel guilty for being rich and successful as a country and we need to punish ourselves for that. That is, of course, lunacy. But both parties brought that kind of thinking to DC.

Unions, while necessary in the beginning, gained way too much power and drove the prices for american goods out of the competitive range. We have the highest corporate tax rate in the world, and instead of talking about reducing it to help create american jobs, congress talks about making it even higher to "punish" the evil corporations.

Its self destructive and we citizens just sit around and watch the idiots in DC destroy this great country, it makes me very sad.

OK since you think unions are unnecessary, how much further do we have to slide back towards the 1920s before they again become necessary? The average worker is now working 7+ hours of unpaid overtime, job and wage security is a thing of past, things like paid vacations and pensions are a rarity and wages have declined as productivity has skyrocketed. Things are going pretty good for the stockholders but the working class is being left behind. How long will the "unions are unnecessary" argument persist when the real picture is one where workers have not been so powerless since before the great depression.

Detroit is a shithole due to liberals and unions running it for years. Corruption within the UAW has been demonstrated many times.

the non union car factories in the south are doing great, paying good wages, and providing good benefits. (Mercedes, BMW, Toyota, VW, Subaru, Kia, Honda, Hyundai). We now have laws to prevent the abuses that the unions stood up for in the 1920s. Unions today are nothing more than fund raisers for the dem party.

Workers are getting fewer hours because of obamacare.

 

[occupied]

The problems we have are a direct result of instituting "free market" trade policy since about 1980 or so. Most of our industrial base left to chase cheap slave labor around the developing world and no one on the right did a god damned thing to prevent it, in fact they facilitated it to a degree that could be considered economic treason if such a concept existed in conservative dogma.

LOL, thats some funny shit.

Manufacturing jobs left this country for two reasons: unions and taxes.

I do agree with you that we need a tariff system to keep cheat imports from competing with quality american products.

Democrats have controlled congress for most of the last 75 years, so the policies you complain about were mostly put in place by democrats (and liberal republicans).

Don't blame our formerly high standard of living and generous wages of the working class for that. It's the thing we should be aiming for, not trying to avoid. The "free market" people somehow thought it would be good for American workers to directly compete with third world slave labor and our wages and benefits fell and have never recovered. I wonder how they thought we could have a vibrant economy when the working class no longer has significant disposable income. As for who supports "free market" reforms take a look at who supports the Trans-Pacific partnership.

Did I say I blamed the people? no

The government has created an anti- business environment wherein the only way some companies could survive was to leave this country. That is terrible policy and no other country on earth does such things.

These policies come from a liberal mindset that we should feel guilty for being rich and successful as a country and we need to punish ourselves for that. That is, of course, lunacy. But both parties brought that kind of thinking to DC.

Unions, while necessary in the beginning, gained way too much power and drove the prices for american goods out of the competitive range. We have the highest corporate tax rate in the world, and instead of talking about reducing it to help create american jobs, congress talks about making it even higher to "punish" the evil corporations.

Its self destructive and we citizens just sit around and watch the idiots in DC destroy this great country, it makes me very sad.

OK since you think unions are unnecessary, how much further do we have to slide back towards the 1920s before they again become necessary? The average worker is now working 7+ hours of unpaid overtime, job and wage security is a thing of past, things like paid vacations and pensions are a rarity and wages have declined as productivity has skyrocketed. Things are going pretty good for the stockholders but the working class is being left behind. How long will the "unions are unnecessary" argument persist when the real picture is one where workers have not been so powerless since before the great depression.

Detroit is a shithole due to liberals and unions running it for years. Corruption within the UAW has been demonstrated many times.

the non union car factories in the south are doing great, paying good wages, and providing good benefits. (Mercedes, BMW, Toyota, VW, Subaru, Kia, Honda, Hyundai). We now have laws to prevent the abuses that the unions stood up for in the 1920s. Unions today are nothing more than fund raisers for the dem party.

Workers are getting fewer hours because of obamacare.

So no answer other than the same old shit, that was not unexpected as I have never received a straight answer to that question from anyone who has used the "Unions are no longer necessary" argument.

 

[Redfish]

LOL, thats some funny shit.

Manufacturing jobs left this country for two reasons: unions and taxes.

I do agree with you that we need a tariff system to keep cheat imports from competing with quality american products.

Democrats have controlled congress for most of the last 75 years, so the policies you complain about were mostly put in place by democrats (and liberal republicans).

Don't blame our formerly high standard of living and generous wages of the working class for that. It's the thing we should be aiming for, not trying to avoid. The "free market" people somehow thought it would be good for American workers to directly compete with third world slave labor and our wages and benefits fell and have never recovered. I wonder how they thought we could have a vibrant economy when the working class no longer has significant disposable income. As for who supports "free market" reforms take a look at who supports the Trans-Pacific partnership.

Did I say I blamed the people? no

The government has created an anti- business environment wherein the only way some companies could survive was to leave this country. That is terrible policy and no other country on earth does such things.

These policies come from a liberal mindset that we should feel guilty for being rich and successful as a country and we need to punish ourselves for that. That is, of course, lunacy. But both parties brought that kind of thinking to DC.

Unions, while necessary in the beginning, gained way too much power and drove the prices for american goods out of the competitive range. We have the highest corporate tax rate in the world, and instead of talking about reducing it to help create american jobs, congress talks about making it even higher to "punish" the evil corporations.

Its self destructive and we citizens just sit around and watch the idiots in DC destroy this great country, it makes me very sad.

OK since you think unions are unnecessary, how much further do we have to slide back towards the 1920s before they again become necessary? The average worker is now working 7+ hours of unpaid overtime, job and wage security is a thing of past, things like paid vacations and pensions are a rarity and wages have declined as productivity has skyrocketed. Things are going pretty good for the stockholders but the working class is being left behind. How long will the "unions are unnecessary" argument persist when the real picture is one where workers have not been so powerless since before the great depression.

Detroit is a shithole due to liberals and unions running it for years. Corruption within the UAW has been demonstrated many times.

the non union car factories in the south are doing great, paying good wages, and providing good benefits. (Mercedes, BMW, Toyota, VW, Subaru, Kia, Honda, Hyundai). We now have laws to prevent the abuses that the unions stood up for in the 1920s. Unions today are nothing more than fund raisers for the dem party.

Workers are getting fewer hours because of obamacare.

So no answer other than the same old shit, that was not unexpected as I have never received a straight answer to that question from anyone who has used the "Unions are no longer necessary" argument.

I explained it quite clearly, unions are no longer necessary because we have laws that prevent the abuses that unions fought against in the past. The non-union car factories in the south are perfect examples.

what is it that you don't understand?

 

[Kondor3]

If we keep following GOP policies, there is no doubt this country will fall. Look how fucked up Red States are. Look at what they did under Bush, Bush and Reagan. People only fight when there is something worth fighting for. What do Republicans bring to the table besides debt, war, ignorance and poor health. They are the true "Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse".

If we keep believing that Republicans and Democrats are anything but opposite sides of the same sick coin, and if we continue to limit ourselves to two choices, and if we don't get our heads out of our asses and start finding middle-ground between the two poles, there is no doubt this country will fall. Hyper-partisans are the true Four Horsemen.

 

[Kondor3]

...Workers are getting fewer hours because of obamacare.

Yep... and it's happening all over the country... the damned thing is gonna have to go... after January 20, 2017, anyway.

 

[occupied]

Don't blame our formerly high standard of living and generous wages of the working class for that. It's the thing we should be aiming for, not trying to avoid. The "free market" people somehow thought it would be good for American workers to directly compete with third world slave labor and our wages and benefits fell and have never recovered. I wonder how they thought we could have a vibrant economy when the working class no longer has significant disposable income. As for who supports "free market" reforms take a look at who supports the Trans-Pacific partnership.

Did I say I blamed the people? no

The government has created an anti- business environment wherein the only way some companies could survive was to leave this country. That is terrible policy and no other country on earth does such things.

These policies come from a liberal mindset that we should feel guilty for being rich and successful as a country and we need to punish ourselves for that. That is, of course, lunacy. But both parties brought that kind of thinking to DC.

Unions, while necessary in the beginning, gained way too much power and drove the prices for american goods out of the competitive range. We have the highest corporate tax rate in the world, and instead of talking about reducing it to help create american jobs, congress talks about making it even higher to "punish" the evil corporations.

Its self destructive and we citizens just sit around and watch the idiots in DC destroy this great country, it makes me very sad.

OK since you think unions are unnecessary, how much further do we have to slide back towards the 1920s before they again become necessary? The average worker is now working 7+ hours of unpaid overtime, job and wage security is a thing of past, things like paid vacations and pensions are a rarity and wages have declined as productivity has skyrocketed. Things are going pretty good for the stockholders but the working class is being left behind. How long will the "unions are unnecessary" argument persist when the real picture is one where workers have not been so powerless since before the great depression.

Detroit is a shithole due to liberals and unions running it for years. Corruption within the UAW has been demonstrated many times.

the non union car factories in the south are doing great, paying good wages, and providing good benefits. (Mercedes, BMW, Toyota, VW, Subaru, Kia, Honda, Hyundai). We now have laws to prevent the abuses that the unions stood up for in the 1920s. Unions today are nothing more than fund raisers for the dem party.

Workers are getting fewer hours because of obamacare.

So no answer other than the same old shit, that was not unexpected as I have never received a straight answer to that question from anyone who has used the "Unions are no longer necessary" argument.

I explained it quite clearly, unions are no longer necessary because we have laws that prevent the abuses that unions fought against in the past. The non-union car factories in the south are perfect examples.

what is it that you don't understand?

I understand that those laws are unenforceable because the republicans on the NLRB and republican congressmen at all levels do everything in their power to subvert labor law . If the laws are enough why then are the republicans opposed to them as well as unions?

Also I used to live very near the Honda plant in Alabama, it is not the economic boon that you haters of the working class like to hold it up as. None of those factories had the effect of raising Alabama's economy out of the toilet because they just do not generate enough economic activity and tax revenue.

 

[rdean]

The problems we have are a direct result of instituting "free market" trade policy since about 1980 or so. Most of our industrial base left to chase cheap slave labor around the developing world and no one on the right did a god damned thing to prevent it, in fact they facilitated it to a degree that could be considered economic treason if such a concept existed in conservative dogma.

LOL, thats some funny shit.

Manufacturing jobs left this country for two reasons: unions and taxes.

I do agree with you that we need a tariff system to keep cheat imports from competing with quality american products.

Democrats have controlled congress for most of the last 75 years, so the policies you complain about were mostly put in place by democrats (and liberal republicans).

Don't blame our formerly high standard of living and generous wages of the working class for that. It's the thing we should be aiming for, not trying to avoid. The "free market" people somehow thought it would be good for American workers to directly compete with third world slave labor and our wages and benefits fell and have never recovered. I wonder how they thought we could have a vibrant economy when the working class no longer has significant disposable income. As for who supports "free market" reforms take a look at who supports the Trans-Pacific partnership.

Did I say I blamed the people? no

The government has created an anti- business environment wherein the only way some companies could survive was to leave this country. That is terrible policy and no other country on earth does such things.

These policies come from a liberal mindset that we should feel guilty for being rich and successful as a country and we need to punish ourselves for that. That is, of course, lunacy. But both parties brought that kind of thinking to DC.

Unions, while necessary in the beginning, gained way too much power and drove the prices for american goods out of the competitive range. We have the highest corporate tax rate in the world, and instead of talking about reducing it to help create american jobs, congress talks about making it even higher to "punish" the evil corporations.

Its self destructive and we citizens just sit around and watch the idiots in DC destroy this great country, it makes me very sad.

OK since you think unions are unnecessary, how much further do we have to slide back towards the 1920s before they again become necessary? The average worker is now working 7+ hours of unpaid overtime, job and wage security is a thing of past, things like paid vacations and pensions are a rarity and wages have declined as productivity has skyrocketed. Things are going pretty good for the stockholders but the working class is being left behind. How long will the "unions are unnecessary" argument persist when the real picture is one where workers have not been so powerless since before the great depression.

Detroit is a shithole due to liberals and unions running it for years. Corruption within the UAW has been demonstrated many times.

the non union car factories in the south are doing great, paying good wages, and providing good benefits. (Mercedes, BMW, Toyota, VW, Subaru, Kia, Honda, Hyundai). We now have laws to prevent the abuses that the unions stood up for in the 1920s. Unions today are nothing more than fund raisers for the dem party.

Workers are getting fewer hours because of obamacare.

Easy to point out a couple of cities. I can point out over a dozen states. How do you explain that?

 

[Rexx Taylor]

anyone want to predict the next few cities that will fall? so far we have chicago, detroit, oakland, baltimore, los angleles. who's next? Newark?