Ron Paul: Crimea Secedes. So What?...

[paulitician]

You know that Russia is lying to the people because that's what obama tells you is happening. We have a lap dog, state controlled, media that tells you what's happening.

There is no more reason to believe American media than there is to believe Russian media.

Sadly, you are Spot On. It's a Government/Media Complex. Credible Independent Media is incredibly hard to find these days. Just a handful of large Corporations control American Media at this point. And they're connected with Government. They are one entity now. If you're looking for truth, don't look to American Media for it.

 

[nodoginnafight]

You know that Russia is lying to the people because that's what obama tells you is happening. We have a lap dog, state controlled, media that tells you what's happening.

There is no more reason to believe American media than there is to believe Russian media.

Sadly, you are Spot On. It's a Government/Media Complex. Credible Independent Media is incredibly hard to find these days. Just a handful of large Corporations control American Media at this point. And they're connected with Government. They are one entity now. If you're looking for truth, don't look to American Media for it.

Sadly - waaaay off base.

Russia has been lying to their people since before Obama was born.
And they have a history of running such fair and impartial elections, don't they?
They upped the ante this time by pointing guns at the voters.

And even if the majority of Ukrainians in Crimea DID want to join Russia - doesn't matter.

If Alaskans voted to rejoin Russia or Texas voted to rejoin Mexico - you know good and well it wouldn't happen. We wouldn't allow it - and we shouldn't allow it.

 

[paulitician]

You know that Russia is lying to the people because that's what obama tells you is happening. We have a lap dog, state controlled, media that tells you what's happening.

There is no more reason to believe American media than there is to believe Russian media.

Sadly, you are Spot On. It's a Government/Media Complex. Credible Independent Media is incredibly hard to find these days. Just a handful of large Corporations control American Media at this point. And they're connected with Government. They are one entity now. If you're looking for truth, don't look to American Media for it.

Sadly - waaaay off base.

Russia has been lying to their people since before Obama was born.
And they have a history of running such fair and impartial elections, don't they?
They upped the ante this time by pointing guns at the voters.

And even if the majority of Ukrainians in Crimea DID want to join Russia - doesn't matter.

If Alaskans voted to rejoin Russia or Texas voted to rejoin Mexico - you know good and well it wouldn't happen. We wouldn't allow it - and we shouldn't allow it.

I'm underwhelmed. I haven't heard a valid argument yet convincing me to care. Communists and Neocons are all worked-up over nothing. Ukraine and Russia can sort out their own problems.

 

[tinydancer]

I added to that post you quoted. No one (or not many) in the U.S. have the stomach to engage in yet another war right now. That isn't going to happen. But frustration over our limited options to influence this situation SHOULD NOT encourage us to find ways to defend Russia's actions. Not imho.

who are we to judge whether what russia and the people of crimea did was right or wrong? why is our moral compass better than the people who are actually involved?

Yanking a hunk off of a sovereign nation and "annexing" it at gun point .... that doesn't make your moral compass wiggle?

And I'm pretty sure the Ukrainians are not real wild about getting a hunk of their country "annexed."

For crying out loud, Crimea was Russian til the mid 50's when old Nikita thought it was a swell idea to just "give" Crimea to the Ukraine.

It is 60% ethnic Russian. The goons who overthrew the government are uber Ukrainian nationalists who hate anything Russian, one of the first bills they passed was to ban the Russian language, to make Ukrainaphobia a criminal offense, they are into "ethnically pure Ukraine" (that should set off warning bells) oh and last but not least have in their party platform that Crimea should be stripped of her autonomy.

The people of Crimea were frightened of the uber right wing whack jobs that took over the government and rightfully so.

AND they at least got a chance to vote to join Russia. Not so other Ukrainians who just witnessed a coup of epic proportions.

 

[Redfish]

I added to that post you quoted. No one (or not many) in the U.S. have the stomach to engage in yet another war right now. That isn't going to happen. But frustration over our limited options to influence this situation SHOULD NOT encourage us to find ways to defend Russia's actions. Not imho.

who are we to judge whether what russia and the people of crimea did was right or wrong? why is our moral compass better than the people who are actually involved?

Yanking a hunk off of a sovereign nation and "annexing" it at gun point .... that doesn't make your moral compass wiggle?

And I'm pretty sure the Ukrainians are not real wild about getting a hunk of their country "annexed."

96% of the people in that hunk voted for it. it was not taken, the people seceded from ukraine and voluntarily rejoined Russia.

you really need to see this for what it is, not what our govt and media are trying to make it.

 

[tinydancer]

You know that Russia is lying to the people because that's what obama tells you is happening. We have a lap dog, state controlled, media that tells you what's happening.

There is no more reason to believe American media than there is to believe Russian media.

Sadly, you are Spot On. It's a Government/Media Complex. Credible Independent Media is incredibly hard to find these days. Just a handful of large Corporations control American Media at this point. And they're connected with Government. They are one entity now. If you're looking for truth, don't look to American Media for it.

Sadly - waaaay off base.

Russia has been lying to their people since before Obama was born.
And they have a history of running such fair and impartial elections, don't they?
They upped the ante this time by pointing guns at the voters.

And even if the majority of Ukrainians in Crimea DID want to join Russia - doesn't matter.

If Alaskans voted to rejoin Russia or Texas voted to rejoin Mexico - you know good and well it wouldn't happen. We wouldn't allow it - and we shouldn't allow it.

You are repeating talking points. Sad. From our propaganda machines. I'm conservative and I am bipartisanlly pissed off that my conservative government and media are pushing this lying narrative.

You actually would be surprised if you read other global media.

As to "not allowing a vote for independence" well how hypocritical are our governments. The Falklands voted to remain with the UK.

Well that was peachy keen a AOK with our governments correct?

Kovosvo declared independence and that was hunky dory with our governments correct?

So what makes one vote legal and the other not? And one more time don't hand me the bullshit that Crimea voted at the point of a gun.

Russia by a 1997 treaty are allowed up to 25,000 military personnel in Crimea. And hell's bells the defection rate to Russia's troops are over the moon.

With all due respect you need to expand your media sources to find the truth. Even the BBC has been practicing "accidental acts of journalism".

 

[tinydancer]

who are we to judge whether what russia and the people of crimea did was right or wrong? why is our moral compass better than the people who are actually involved?

Yanking a hunk off of a sovereign nation and "annexing" it at gun point .... that doesn't make your moral compass wiggle?

And I'm pretty sure the Ukrainians are not real wild about getting a hunk of their country "annexed."

96% of the people in that hunk voted for it. it was not taken, the people seceded from ukraine and voluntarily rejoined Russia.

you really need to see this for what it is, not what our govt and media are trying to make it.

At least up here I can see why all three parties are backing the goons in Kiev right now.
We have the third largest population of Ukrainians outside of the Ukraine and Russia. I am a 3rd generation Uk living in the middle of Uk land. Other half of me is Irish. That's the fighting part of my soul.

So the deal is you can't win the west unless you win the Ukrainian vote. So I understand why everyone is whoring themselves out whether they are conservative, liberal or our super duper left wing NDP.

You guys? Hells bells I have no idea apart from NATO and the military wanting to claim the base in Crimea why the hell America is involved in this bullshit.

And with taxpayers dollars. One billion for starters? Is Washington crazy? Why yes it is.

 

[Unkotare]

And one more time don't hand me the bullshit that Crimea voted at the point of a gun.

And one more time, that shit wasn't handed to you it was handed to the people of Crimea who were standing on the other side of that gun. However convenient it might seem to your so-called 'principles,' that vote was by no standard legitimate.

 

[Unkotare]

You actually would be surprised if you read other global media.



With all due respect you need to expand your media sources to find the truth. Even the BBC has been practicing "accidental acts of journalism".

Wow, you're pretentious enough to be an annoying liberal.

 

[BobPlumb]

Yanking a hunk off of a sovereign nation and "annexing" it at gun point .... that doesn't make your moral compass wiggle?

And I'm pretty sure the Ukrainians are not real wild about getting a hunk of their country "annexed."

96% of the people in that hunk voted for it. it was not taken, the people seceded from ukraine and voluntarily rejoined Russia.

you really need to see this for what it is, not what our govt and media are trying to make it.

At least up here I can see why all three parties are backing the goons in Kiev right now.
We have the third largest population of Ukrainians outside of the Ukraine and Russia. I am a 3rd generation Uk living in the middle of Uk land. Other half of me is Irish. That's the fighting part of my soul.

So the deal is you can't win the west unless you win the Ukrainian vote. So I understand why everyone is whoring themselves out whether they are conservative, liberal or our super duper left wing NDP.

You guys? Hells bells I have no idea apart from NATO and the military wanting to claim the base in Crimea why the hell America is involved in this bullshit.

And with taxpayers dollars. One billion for starters? Is Washington crazy? Why yes it is.

Hells Bells

[ame=http://youtu.be/etAIpkdhU9Q]AC/DC - Hells Bells - YouTube[/ame]

 

[tinydancer]

And one more time don't hand me the bullshit that Crimea voted at the point of a gun.

And one more time, that shit wasn't handed to you it was handed to the people of Crimea who were standing on the other side of that gun. However convenient it might seem to your so-called 'principles,' that vote was by no standard legitimate.

I don't normally get in a pissing contest with you because I like you. That said. Here we go.

Show me the invasion? Show me that they voted at the point of a gun. You can't. It's a lie. and we are being fed lie after lie after lie.

What makes their vote illegal?

You prove to me that the vote was illegal. I am not taking this bullshit anymore. And I'm a fucking Uk.

Svoboda in no uncertain terms wants to strip Crimea of its already given autonomy. You can't wrap your brain around these goons wanting to crush Crimea into the next century and Crimeans going "I'm not taking the coup in Kiev?

These uber right super wing Ukrainian nationalists and you really need to learn some history about my anti jew brethren (look up Bandera and the Right Sector).

Crimea chose wisely in my book. And I'm really getting scared at who is in charge now and the direction of the country with these goons at the helm.

 

[Unkotare]

Crimea chose wisely in my book.

They didn't "choose" at all. The choice was made for them.

 

[Unkotare]

Show me the invasion? Show me that they voted at the point of a gun.

It was all over the news on just about every media outlet that has been covering this situation. Perhaps if you had expanded the media to which you expose yourself you would have seen the Russian troop reinforcements rolling into Crimea, confronting Ukrainian troops with weapons at the ready, and patrolling the region during the 'show' of so-called elections. You should read more. You should travel. You really need to broaden your view and seek out a greater depth and variety of media. Do you even have a passport? Did I miss any of the standard insufferable pretentious bons mots? You need to use them all in order to become as worldly and wise as all the wicked, wicked smart people hiding behind their sofas pretending that spineless irresponsibility is a foreign policy.

 

[Unkotare]

I don't normally get in a pissing contest with you because I like you.

Likewise.

 

[tinydancer]

Crimea chose wisely in my book.

They didn't "choose" at all. The choice was made for them.

Prove it. I've given the demographics and the reasons why they would hate Kiev. Kiev wants to strip them of their language and destroy their autonomy.

You have given me nothing.

 

[Redfish]

Crimea chose wisely in my book.

They didn't "choose" at all. The choice was made for them.

Prove it. I've given the demographics and the reasons why they would hate Kiev. Kiev wants to strip them of their language and destroy their autonomy.

You have given me nothing.

all he has is talking points, thats why he is on my ignore list. I have no patience with morons and blind partisans.

 

[Unkotare]

Crimea chose wisely in my book.

They didn't "choose" at all. The choice was made for them.

Prove it.

http://images.smh.com.au/2014/03/14...20Simferopol-20140314230527469384-620x349.jpg


http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/0NyfsJT2uIc/0.jpg


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dQ9OSk8M3...nks-are-threatening-a-full-scale-invasion.jpg


http://assets.nydailynews.com/polop...g_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/527604029.jpg


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mtmOSjRQQ6A/Uxw8IgK3eqI/AAAAAAAAPHg/JcRUNx1WDiE/s1600/9952.jpg

 

[Unkotare]

They didn't "choose" at all. The choice was made for them.

Prove it. I've given the demographics and the reasons why they would hate Kiev. Kiev wants to strip them of their language and destroy their autonomy.

You have given me nothing.

all he has is talking points, thats why he is on my ignore list.

I'm 'supposedly' there for the same reason that you're a libertari-coward. You think that hiding from something and pretending it's not there will make it go away. Brilliant.

 

[tinydancer]

I have no reason to love Putin or Russia. I grew up hating beyond hating the USSR and Stalin. I'm not supposed to be on their side.

But I do love truth. And too often in our lives we have been handed the grand caca all in the name of "foreign policy".

I was following this long before our side seized on it. Heritage I guess keeps me linked to this old country of mine.

When I first heard of Svoboda I'm telling you all senses went up. Let alone the Right Sector. I know my own and I know and this hurts to the core that there is a certain segment of Ukrainian society who really hate jews, really hate Moscow and even worse yet conspired with the Nazis. Uber Ukrainians.

These people who now have high places in the coup government are horrid goons. There is a real here. And you are not being told about these men and women.

I can back my shit up waaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy before we got to this point. I can give you BBC in 2012. You know I can a million times over before I take a position.

This is so sad because we should not be at odds.

I would ask you to really look at what I will present up and coming and think on it.

 

[Unkotare]

There is a real here. And you are not being told about these men and women.

You are not being logical. That there are some nasty people in Ukraine in no way justifies Russia invading and annexing part of the country for their own devices, and does not legitimize a sham election. You also seem to think that no one had ever heard of Ukraine before all this except for you. All illogical positions.