Ron Paul: Crimea Secedes. So What?...

[Unkotare]

And trying to get rid of Hugo Chavez in Venezuela because he brought OPEC countries together and wanted to increase the price of oil.

We did not do that.

 

[Steinlight]

And trying to get rid of Hugo Chavez in Venezuela because he brought OPEC countries together and wanted to increase the price of oil.

We did not do that.

You aren't part of any "we", other than your imaginary friend. So yes you didn't do shit about anything.

The US, being run by jews, homosexuals, women, uncle toms and fat baby baby boomers with no balls, who try to stir shit around the world through artificial coups all passively aggressively instead of actually fighting face to face and showing strength such as a country like Russia does.

 

[Unkotare]

And trying to get rid of Hugo Chavez in Venezuela because he brought OPEC countries together and wanted to increase the price of oil.

We did not do that.

You aren't part of any "we", other than your imaginary friend.

I am part of the United States of America. YOU are part of a tiny, worthless, and dwindling minority of sniveling cowards who couch their craven fear in the filthy cloak of racist nonsense. You're a pathetic mistake.

 

[Steinlight]

We did not do that.

You aren't part of any "we", other than your imaginary friend.

I am part of the United States of America. YOU are part of a tiny, worthless, and dwindling minority of sniveling cowards who couch their craven fear in the filthy cloak of racist nonsense. You're a pathetic mistake.

No you aren't, you are an east asian, you aren't of our nation or of our blood. Our nation was specifically founded by and for whites. You are nothing but a guest in our land.

And you know nothing of the history of the US Government starting coups in multiple nations, in the case of Chavez in 2002, and their role in the current unrest.

 

[Erand7899]

My question exactly. If the people vote to join Russia, who are we to tell them they cannot?

I agree.

We have no dog in this fight. If they vote to be part of Russia then thats what they want.

We certainly don't need to seen a billion dollars, that we don't have, to anyone.

One has to wonder what idiots we have in our Govt. Idiots that would stick their noses into something that doesn't concern us in any way shape or form.

The same type of idiots you see here ruffling up their feathers over the spread of the boogeyman. And that if we don't act now, it will soon slip silently (like the boogeyman does) right into our front door and we'll be voting russia too!

I am sure that you could find the same sentiments in the British Isles and France in the 1930's. After all, how could a small country, like Germany, become a threat to the entire world? Japan? What could they do to us? Let China and Indochina take care of themselves.

 

[Avatar4321]

So what? We are at the eve of another global war and it's so what?

Precisely why I didn't vote for Ron.

 

[Unkotare]

You aren't part of any "we", other than your imaginary friend.

I am part of the United States of America. YOU are part of a tiny, worthless, and dwindling minority of sniveling cowards who couch their craven fear in the filthy cloak of racist nonsense. You're a pathetic mistake.

No you aren't, you are an east asian [sic]

When did I ever say that, you fucking idiot?

 

[Unkotare]

you aren't of our nation or of our blood. Our nation was specifically founded by and for whites.

If you knew anything at all about my nation, you'd know that it wasn't founded on "blood" or any false notion of race, you stupid shit. Not only are you NOT an American, you don't deserve the privilege of residing in my country. GTFO, you worthless cur.

 

[Unkotare]

the US Government starting coups in multiple nations, in the case of Chavez in 2002....

We did not. You are a propagandist for bloodthirsty socialist dictators, scumbag.

 

[Redfish]

can we get back on topic?

Crimea returning to Russia has Zero impact on the USA. Its none of our fricken business. We have enough problems here at home, we don't need to be trying to save the world from imaginery villains.

 

[tinydancer]

Residents of Crimea voted over the weekend on whether they would remain an autonomous region of Ukraine or join the Russian Federation. In so doing, they joined a number of countries and regions — including recently Scotland, Catalonia and Venice — that are seeking to secede from what they view as unresponsive or oppressive governments.

These latter three are proceeding without much notice, while the overwhelming Crimea vote to secede from Ukraine has incensed U.S. and European Union officials, and has led NATO closer to conflict with Russia than since the height of the Cold War.

What's the big deal? Opponents of the Crimea vote like to point to the illegality of the referendum. But self-determination is a centerpiece of international law. Article I of the United Nations Charter points out clearly that the purpose of the U.N. is to "develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples."

Why does the U.S. care which flag will be hoisted on a small piece of land thousands of miles away?

Critics point to the Russian "occupation" of Crimea as evidence that no fair vote could have taken place. Where were these people when an election held in an Iraq occupied by U.S. troops was called a "triumph of democracy"?

Perhaps the U.S. officials who supported the unconstitutional overthrow of Ukraine's government should refocus their energies on learning our own Constitution, which does not allow the U.S. government to overthrow governments overseas or send a billion dollars to bail out Ukraine and its international creditors.

Though the Obama administration has applied some minimal sanctions on selected Russian and Crimean individuals, neither the U.S. nor the EU can afford significant sanctions against Russia. Global trade provides too much economic benefit to both sides.

Indeed, international markets rallied on news that the sanctions would be thus far minimal. They understand that trade and economic engagement are the surest roads to peace and prosperity. Let's hope governments will follow their lead.

Ron Paul: Crimea secedes. So what?
DRUDGE REPORT 2014®

The difference with Scotland, Catalonia and Venice is that any procedure to conduct a referendum on independence in Scotland, Catalonia and Venice is done with the consent of the rest of the country and the national government. That's not the case in Crimea. Crimean independence referendum is being conducted without the consent of the national government or the rest of Ukraine. It is being conducted at the point of a Russian gun, and outside independent international observers from the OSCE and the United Nations have been barred from entering the Crimea by Russian troops.

Let me remind you that 70% of the government budget in Crimea comes from tax dollars collected in the rest of Ukraine. 90% of Crimea's oil and natural gas comes from the rest of Ukraine. So the idea that Crimea can just stand up and walk away from the Ukraine is not justified under any of the present circumstances. Crimea has no more right to leave Ukraine than Mississippi has a right to leave the United States.

Russia has illegally invaded another country and seized territory and annexed it into Russia. Russia has no more right to sieze and annex Crimea from Ukraine than it does to sieze and annex Alaska from the United States. Yes, Crimea used to be apart of Russia, but so was Alaska at one time, and Alaska spent more time apart of Russia than the Crimea.

This is just crazy and what happens parallels exactly what Hitler did in Austria and Czechoslovakia in the 1930s. Ethnic Russians were not in any danger at all. The only people who had been killed and tortured in the past weeks were innocent protestors in the streets of Kiev. The government led by Yukonivich had over 100 protesters murdered on the streets of Kiev in mid-February. That is why the people overthrew him. You can't KILL people for protesting. That is against the law and against human rights.

But because Putins man in Kiev was overthrown, Putin decided he was not going to take that lying down and invaded an annexed Ukraines Crimea region. This is Hitler at his best, and the question now is, who's next? What if Russia decides that ethnic Russians in Estonia or Latvia need "protection" and invade those countries? World War III. Those are NATO countries and an attack on Estonia is considered an attack on the United States and all other NATO countries.

So that is why people are deeply concerned by this. Russia has turned back towards its ruthless imperial and expansionist past and this is a serious threat to the entire planet!

With all due respect most of your post is full of shit eeeerrrrrrrr talking points.

#1 Crimea does not recognize the new interim government in Kiev as a legitimate government. They view this travesty as a coup. Therefore Crimea had no obligation to the new illegal government.

#2 This is a biggie. Svoboda who gained great political clout for being a mega part of the muscle to overthrow the duly elected government has as a keystone of its party platform the demand to strip Crimea of its autonomy.

#3 Russia did not invade. They have a naval base and they were allowed up to 25,000 troops via a treaty signed in 1997 and goes till the end of 2042.

#4 Crimea is demographically 60% ethnic Russian. And one must remember that Crimea only became part of the Ukraine when old Nikita gave the state as a present to the Ukraine in the mid 50's.

#5 The new interim governments actions in the first days of seizing power was to ban the Russian language. Now this was vetoed by the appointed President under pressure from the EU but for how long?

Shall I go on?

 

[tinydancer]

can we get back on topic?

Crimea returning to Russia has Zero impact on the USA. Its none of our fricken business. We have enough problems here at home, we don't need to be trying to save the world from imaginery villains.

I'm with you. I elected my government to run my freaking country, not every other country in the world. And to spend my tax dollars within my country's borders.

 

[paulitician]

can we get back on topic?

Crimea returning to Russia has Zero impact on the USA. Its none of our fricken business. We have enough problems here at home, we don't need to be trying to save the world from imaginery villains.

Yup. Neither the Communists or Neocons have presented a valid argument for our involvement in this conflict. So far all they have is 'Putin's another Hitler.' The Communists are only supporting it because their Dear Leader Obama told them to. And the Neocons are just confused again. Sadly this will be another very costly interventionist misadventure. How many $Billions in Tax Dollars will be flushed over there? My guess is, way too much.

 

[bendog]

you need to shove the communist crap where the sun don't shine.

 

[paulitician]

The U.S. and Great Britain love Referendums when they feel they can benefit from them. Otherwise, everyone's a 'Hitler' and they're 'illegal.' I have a feeling the Brits aren't too happy about Scotland's coming Referendum. All i can say is...GO SCOTLAND!!

Few points here:

Since we're talking about legality of Crimean referendum, lets mention legality of things that preceded it, like constitutionality of abolition of Russian language, or even way that piece of shit Yanukovych was impeached from office. Once Kiev abandoned their own Constitution, they have no say about constitutionality of Crimean referendum.

Six years ago US government claimed that Kosovo has right to secede (Albanian Kosovars were minority in the Serbian state but large majority in the Kosovo province). The same principle applies to Crimea.

All those sanctions from our chairmen Barry are whole lotta nothing, smokescreen. Didn't our chairman Obamao promised to go easy on Putin after he got re-elected? Plus, Russia is a bite that is just too large to swallow.

And last, Putin mistake is that he rushed to accept Crimea as part of Russia. If referendum options were: stay in Ukraine or become independent state and Crimea chose to be independent, nobody would complain and later Crimea could join Russia without problems.

The U.S. and Great Britain are the most meddlesome nations on Earth. They instigate turmoil all over the World. And they've instigated in Kiev for sure. They both approve of Referendums only when they benefit from them. I assure you, Great Britain is doing everything in their power to make sure Scotland doesn't secede. There will be massive bribery and intimidation. In the end, this isn't our business. Too many $Billions in Tax Dollars will be wasted away over there. It's a crime in my opinion.

 

[tinydancer]

can we get back on topic?

Crimea returning to Russia has Zero impact on the USA. Its none of our fricken business. We have enough problems here at home, we don't need to be trying to save the world from imaginery villains.

Yup. Neither the Communists or Neocons have presented a valid argument for our involvement in this conflict. So far all they have is 'Putin's another Hitler.' The Communists are only supporting it because their Dear Leader told them to. And the Neocons are just confused again. Sadly this will be another very costly interventionist misadventure. How many $Billions in Tax Dollars will be flushed over there? My guess is, way too much.

I found a big reason. I started a thread on it.

Check this out.

Oil and gas prize

The big economic prize in Crimea lies to the south, in the Black Sea natural gas fields.

Extraction from these fields has the potential to be substantial - up to 7 million tons in annual production capacity, by Bloomberg estimates.

US ExxonMobil and UK/Dutch Shell have also been in talks with Ukraine about deepwater offshore oil drilling, but the only problem is, all this oil is located under Crimean waters. The deal is estimated at $1 billion.

ExxonMobil’s Black Sea offshore plans are currently on hold, senior vice president Andrew Swiger told investors at an early March meeting.

On Thursday, Crimea’s authorities took under their umbrella Ukrainian oil and gas fields in the Black and Azov seas, according to the speaker of Crimea’s parliament, Vladimir Konstantinov.

He supports Russia’s Gazprom taking control of the oil and gas assets.

Crimea?s economy in numbers and pictures ? RT Business

 

[paulitician]

can we get back on topic?

Crimea returning to Russia has Zero impact on the USA. Its none of our fricken business. We have enough problems here at home, we don't need to be trying to save the world from imaginery villains.

Yup. Neither the Communists or Neocons have presented a valid argument for our involvement in this conflict. So far all they have is 'Putin's another Hitler.' The Communists are only supporting it because their Dear Leader told them to. And the Neocons are just confused again. Sadly this will be another very costly interventionist misadventure. How many $Billions in Tax Dollars will be flushed over there? My guess is, way too much.

I found a big reason. I started a thread on it.

Check this out.

Oil and gas prize

The big economic prize in Crimea lies to the south, in the Black Sea natural gas fields.

Extraction from these fields has the potential to be substantial - up to 7 million tons in annual production capacity, by Bloomberg estimates.

US ExxonMobil and UK/Dutch Shell have also been in talks with Ukraine about deepwater offshore oil drilling, but the only problem is, all this oil is located under Crimean waters. The deal is estimated at $1 billion.

ExxonMobil’s Black Sea offshore plans are currently on hold, senior vice president Andrew Swiger told investors at an early March meeting.

On Thursday, Crimea’s authorities took under their umbrella Ukrainian oil and gas fields in the Black and Azov seas, according to the speaker of Crimea’s parliament, Vladimir Konstantinov.

He supports Russia’s Gazprom taking control of the oil and gas assets.

Crimea?s economy in numbers and pictures ? RT Business

Not surprising. Oil often plays a big role in U.S. interventions. I asked the Communists, what makes Ukrainians better than Georgians? They all ridiculed and rebuffed McCain when he wanted us to intervene on Georgia's behalf. Now they're all "We are all Ukrainians now." Very dishonest and hypocritical. I disagree with the Neocons, but at least they're honest & consistent. But you do make a great point. Oil could be the biggest motivation behind our involvement.

 

[Unkotare]

The U.S. and Great Britain are the most meddlesome nations on Earth. .

Where do you live?

 

[Unkotare]

can we get back on topic?

Crimea returning to Russia has Zero impact on the USA. Its none of our fricken business. We have enough problems here at home, we don't need to be trying to save the world from imaginery villains.

You're quite the visionary, Neville. I mean, what could happen?


............

 

[slava]

If they "vote" with Russian guns on their necks, it can't be a legitimate election.

oh gush how brainwashed you are . And you call yourself democratic. I pity your guys and hope that some ofyou are still able to think clearly. I'm a russian and I've been recently in Crimnea. The citizens of the republic there are quite supportive of the change in the status of the republic. More than 95% voted for the independence from Ukraine . Nobody forced them to become russians. your media has demonized our country completely forgetting that America is a real culprit in today's world. You've destroyed tens of countries saying that those states were undemocratic and had to be freed. In Irak you killed the dictator. Ok, maybe the folks of Irak whould have thanked you had not you murdered 1 million of innocent citizens and plunged the country in chaos. you didnt solve the problem you made it ten times as hard.

As to the referendum in Crimea, your hypocritical politicians point out that we shouldn't have interfered . But why? Give me one reason. The power in Ukraine was seized by the nationalists and corrupt politicians. The didn't vote for them thus the government in the country is illegitimate and has got to be overthrown. Btw, there's a law in your constitution stipulating that you don't have to support an illegitimate govenment. Why is your president doing that?

you country is just exploiting that civil unrest to provoke us. There are millions of russians living there. they are afraid of the nationalists who are now oppressing anybody who is against them. Hundreds of thousands of Ukraineans leave their country and flee to Russia while the united states officials are acting as if they were completely blind and deaf... If you had visited the republic you would have seen people crying out of happiness. I saw it with my own eyes.

Guys, I really feel sorry for you. I don't know whether to laugh or cry...