Rush Reports Zimmerman Arrested again

[Lonestar_logic]

Just to check, do you really want a hypothetical answer?


>>>>

If you have one that makes any sense then by all means let's hear it.

OK, remember you asked for a hypothetical...

OK, we know Zimmerman desired a career in law enforcement and had applied for positions on the force and had been turned down. He hoped to further his career in law enforcement and thought that Neighborhood Watch Captain would look good on an application. So he steps up. Frustrated with the break-ins in the development and the previous instance of "them getting away" Zimmerman finds himself on a dark stormy night following an African-American youth walking through the development. He calls the non-emergency number to get the individual checked by the police. Was Martin really acting "suspicious" or was Zimmerman call just pushing the right buttons to elicit a police response, we'll never know.

Martin attempts to leave the vicinity of the weird guy in the pick-up truck at least twice (more likely three times) [1 - walking away from the corner near initial house, 2 - walking away from the clubhouse, 3 - running away from the vehicle]. Zimmerman determined not to have a repeat of the prior incident were the youths ran away exits the truck to follow on foot. Finds Martin behind the house and approaches. Martin being on the phone at the time doesn't notice Zimmerman until he's close. Martin turns to leave and Zimmerman grabs him buy the hoodie to prevent another "escape". If Zimmerman grabbed Martin, then Martin was fully justified in defending himself.​

And then explain why Zimmerman would call police dispatch if his intent was to attack then shoot Martin.

Being the initial aggressor and "intent to shoot" are two different things.

Under the hypothetical that you asked for Zimmerman exited the vehicle with an intent to follow which may have resulted in him being the initial aggressor, that does not mean that Zimmerman exited the vehicle with an intent to shoot. The intent upon exiting may have been to report, the action may have been to delay/restrain. Calling the police with those intents is logical.

Such a scenario would fall more under Manslaughter or Negligent Homicide instead of the Murder 2 charge the Prosecutor leveled.


*************************

But because Zimmerman is the only survivor of the encounter we are unable to "hear" Martins side of the story.

As they say, history is written by the victors. (And not evidence of losing a fight is not evidence of who started a fight.)



>>>>

The problem with your scenario is that if Martin was attempting to get away from Zimmerman, why didn't he just go the few hundreds yards to his house? Not to mention that at one point Martin approached Zimmerman's car. Which is something he isn't likely to do if he was wanting to get away from him.

Yes Zimmerman did initially follow Martin to keep an eye him per the operator's request "let me know if he does anything". When Zimmerman said Martin was running the operator asked which way was he running.

When advised not to follow there is no evidence on the 911 call that suggest he kept following, as a matter of fact Zimmerman stated Martin ran and said "I don't know where this kid is".

 

[Lonestar_logic]

thats neat lonestar, i know of the full context of the phone call. You dont need to show me. I know im right

Then show me where the evidence shows he continued to follow Martin.

You claimed the evidence was on the tape, I produced the transcript for your convenience.

All you need to do is highlight what you consider to be evidence.

 

[BDBoop]

The more people like Martin that wind up dead is better for society

-Geaux

His crime was ..... ? Smoking weed? Wearing a hoodie? Getting suspended from school? Getting into some fights? Having never been arrested?

That's deserving of a death penalty, in your eyes?

Perhaps a man defending himself deserves the death penalty in your eyes?

Sure, why not.

That's what happened to TM.

 

[Plasmaball]

thats neat lonestar, i know of the full context of the phone call. You dont need to show me. I know im right

Then show me where the evidence shows he continued to follow Martin.

You claimed the evidence was on the tape, I produced the transcript for your convenience.

All you need to do is highlight what you consider to be evidence.

he didnt, i never made the claim he did. just like there is no evidence Martin attacked him.

You have nothing. try learning how to read properly.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Splitting hairs? Told him "we don't need you to do that" when GZ answered yes to following him. Either way, anyone with common sense would know that meant not to follow him, so what did GZ do? Follow him.


OK apparently means "go to hell" in GZ's book.

No evidence supports the claim that he continued to follow Martin.

As a matter of fact Zimmerman had lost sight of Martin at that point as was looking for a street sign.

Ya, looking for a street sign (a) behind darkened houses and (b) going east when the only street signs in the development would have been located to the west or south.**


You can look at overhead photography of the development. Street signs are located at intersections. The nearest intersection was the North Gate at Retreat View Circle and Twin Trees Lane - to the west. The next nearest was the South Gate at Retreat View Circle and Twin Trees Lane - to the South. The road on the other side of the houses where the incident took place (Zimmerman's east travel) was the loop of Retreat View Circle joining the north and south entrances, there are no street signs along straight sections of road with no intersects.


>>>>

He didn't know the neighborhood that well. He walked straight toward a streetlight to see if he could locate an intersection. That was his testimony and the jury obviously believed him.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

thats neat lonestar, i know of the full context of the phone call. You dont need to show me. I know im right

Then show me where the evidence shows he continued to follow Martin.

You claimed the evidence was on the tape, I produced the transcript for your convenience.

All you need to do is highlight what you consider to be evidence.

he didnt, i never made the claim he did. just like there is no evidence Martin attacked him.

You have nothing. try learning how to read properly.

Really?

I stated that "No evidence supports the claim that he continued to follow Martin. "

You responded with, "our evidence is the phone call till he hung up and "then went back to his car to find the cops"."

I read just fine.

 

[Billo_Really]

You much do you secretly hope he does?

!0%

20%

30%

40%

50%

60%

More than that and you are just an irrational Zimmerman basher.

You have Zimmerman Derangement Syndrome.

At least I don't treat him like a God!

 

[Plasmaball]

Then show me where the evidence shows he continued to follow Martin.

You claimed the evidence was on the tape, I produced the transcript for your convenience.

All you need to do is highlight what you consider to be evidence.

he didnt, i never made the claim he did. just like there is no evidence Martin attacked him.

You have nothing. try learning how to read properly.

Really?

I stated that "No evidence supports the claim that he continued to follow Martin. "

You responded with, "our evidence is the phone call till he hung up and "then went back to his car to find the cops"."

I read just fine.

thats not what i said.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

he didnt, i never made the claim he did. just like there is no evidence Martin attacked him.

You have nothing. try learning how to read properly.

Really?

I stated that "No evidence supports the claim that he continued to follow Martin. "

You responded with, "our evidence is the phone call till he hung up and "then went back to his car to find the cops"."

I read just fine.

thats not what i said.

Yes it is what you said. Go back and see for yourself.

 

[MarcATL]

The girlfriend's first lie has been exposed. She said she was pregnant. She's not. Also, when she called 911 to say that Zimmerman was at the door trying to get in, it was the police at the door.

You are such an EFFing liar it's not funny.

It was, the killer, George Zimmerman, that said that the girlfriend was pregnant.

You are assuming that because the girlfriend SAID he had a gun, that he really had a gun.

The girlfriend might be under the erroneous impression that any accusation against Zimmerman will be believed simply because people want it to be true so badly.

After all, his ex mother in law said he broke up her furniture. That turned out not to be true.

So here we have ANOTHER outright LIE by, the killer, George Zimmerman, and you are defending him suggesting that someone ELSE is doing the lying.

You're a real sleazebag. Total scum. Guttersnipe.

 

[MarcATL]

His word against hers.

And you believe the person who has been arrested multiple times, I am guessing?
I think his luck will run out on this one, I guess we will see.

I don't believe either one.

It's just a wash huh? In your book, their BOTH probably lying. Is that it?

 

[MarcATL]

It was such a bizarre 911 call by Zimmerman.

He asks for police when 911 answers.

Then he says the police are already there.

Police are pounding on the barricaded door. 911 asks why won't you let them in?

Z: "I got nothing to say to them."

"They're pretty upset." Well, duh, George.

It was just surreal. At that point, the listener could have half expected to hear GZ put a gun up to his own head and say

"Move one step closer and the cracka gets it."

GZ supporters in unison shout: Do what he say! DO WHAT HE SAAYYYYY!

Isn't anyone going to help that poor man?

Hush, Harriet! That's a sure way to get him killed!

BwahahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Classic!

 

[Lonestar_logic]

And you believe the person who has been arrested multiple times, I am guessing?
I think his luck will run out on this one, I guess we will see.

I don't believe either one.

It's just a wash huh? In your book, their BOTH probably lying. Is that it?

They both may be telling the truth. But I haven't seen enough evidence to say either way.

 

[Yurt]

marc, do you refer to soldiers who have killed, as killers when talking about them?

 

[MarcATL]

How long does anyone think it will be before Zimmerman violates the judge's order not to posses guns or ammunition?

Someone should start another pool.

marc, do you refer to soldiers who have killed, as killers when talking about them?

Oh boy, a comparison to WAR.

Nice!!!

 

[Plasmaball]

Really?

I stated that "No evidence supports the claim that he continued to follow Martin. "

You responded with, "our evidence is the phone call till he hung up and "then went back to his car to find the cops"."

I read just fine.

thats not what i said.

Yes it is what you said. Go back and see for yourself.

the quotation is speculation and an example of what you are doing, so no i didnt say it in how you took it. We dont know if he followed him, Martin came back or they just ran into each other.

You, I nor anyone but Zimmerman and Martin can prove what happened.

You need to understand this. Your speculation is irrelevant to the actual case.

 

[JoeB131]

It's becoming quite clear that Zimmerman is a nut. An unstable one at that. His latest 911 call was full of lies and half truths. I hope the court can find a LEGAL way to remove his rights to posess a gun before someone else falls at his hand.

What you are just figuring this out NOW?

 

[WorldWatcher]

If you have one that makes any sense then by all means let's hear it.

OK, remember you asked for a hypothetical...

OK, we know Zimmerman desired a career in law enforcement and had applied for positions on the force and had been turned down. He hoped to further his career in law enforcement and thought that Neighborhood Watch Captain would look good on an application. So he steps up. Frustrated with the break-ins in the development and the previous instance of "them getting away" Zimmerman finds himself on a dark stormy night following an African-American youth walking through the development. He calls the non-emergency number to get the individual checked by the police. Was Martin really acting "suspicious" or was Zimmerman call just pushing the right buttons to elicit a police response, we'll never know.

Martin attempts to leave the vicinity of the weird guy in the pick-up truck at least twice (more likely three times) [1 - walking away from the corner near initial house, 2 - walking away from the clubhouse, 3 - running away from the vehicle]. Zimmerman determined not to have a repeat of the prior incident were the youths ran away exits the truck to follow on foot. Finds Martin behind the house and approaches. Martin being on the phone at the time doesn't notice Zimmerman until he's close. Martin turns to leave and Zimmerman grabs him buy the hoodie to prevent another "escape". If Zimmerman grabbed Martin, then Martin was fully justified in defending himself.​

And then explain why Zimmerman would call police dispatch if his intent was to attack then shoot Martin.

Being the initial aggressor and "intent to shoot" are two different things.

Under the hypothetical that you asked for Zimmerman exited the vehicle with an intent to follow which may have resulted in him being the initial aggressor, that does not mean that Zimmerman exited the vehicle with an intent to shoot. The intent upon exiting may have been to report, the action may have been to delay/restrain. Calling the police with those intents is logical.

Such a scenario would fall more under Manslaughter or Negligent Homicide instead of the Murder 2 charge the Prosecutor leveled.


*************************

But because Zimmerman is the only survivor of the encounter we are unable to "hear" Martins side of the story.

As they say, history is written by the victors. (And not evidence of losing a fight is not evidence of who started a fight.)



>>>>

The problem with your scenario is that if Martin was attempting to get away from Zimmerman, why didn't he just go the few hundreds yards to his house?

Irrelevant, Martin left the area of Zimmerman twice (according to Zimmerman), he was under no obligation to run to his house. That's what Stand Your Ground means right?

Not to mention that at one point Martin approached Zimmerman's car. Which is something he isn't likely to do if he was wanting to get away from him.

Is there any evidence to support that beyond Zimmerman's claims? Nope.

Yes Zimmerman did initially follow Martin to keep an eye him per the operator's request "let me know if he does anything".

That was not a request to follow, it was telling Zimmerman that if Martin approached to relay what was happening. To try to imply that the Dispatcher requested the Zimmerman followed is a stretch.

When Zimmerman said Martin was running the operator asked which way was he running.

So?

The answer is "I can't tell, he ran behind the houses". That is not a request to follow.

When advised not to follow there is no evidence on the 911 call that suggest he kept following, as a matter of fact Zimmerman stated Martin ran and said "I don't know where this kid is".

Actually their is incontrovertible evidence that Zimmerman proceeded in the same direction as Martin AFTER being told not to follow by the dispatcher and that is based on time/distance analysis which shows that Zimmerman could not have returned to the vehicle at the time the Dispatcher said not to follow. Those instructions came in mere seconds after the Dispatcher heard Zimmerman exit the car (IIRC, 12-13 seconds. From where Zimmerman truck was parked it would have been impossible for him to move down Twin Trees Lane the sidewalk behind the houses, traverse to Retreat View Circle on the other side of the houses, and return back toward Twin Trees Lane to the north/south sidewalk intersection.

Secondly since he'd only been traveling away from the vehicle for 12-13 seconds, if he'd turned around to return at that time, then it would have taken only 12-13 seconds at the same rate or maybe 20 seconds at a slower walk. (We know he wasn't flat out sprinting for two reasons: 1 he said so and 2 he continued to talk to the dispatcher which is hard to do when sprinting.)


>>>>

 

[WorldWatcher]

No evidence supports the claim that he continued to follow Martin.

As a matter of fact Zimmerman had lost sight of Martin at that point as was looking for a street sign.

Ya, looking for a street sign (a) behind darkened houses and (b) going east when the only street signs in the development would have been located to the west or south.**


You can look at overhead photography of the development. Street signs are located at intersections. The nearest intersection was the North Gate at Retreat View Circle and Twin Trees Lane - to the west. The next nearest was the South Gate at Retreat View Circle and Twin Trees Lane - to the South. The road on the other side of the houses where the incident took place (Zimmerman's east travel) was the loop of Retreat View Circle joining the north and south entrances, there are no street signs along straight sections of road with no intersects.


>>>>

He didn't know the neighborhood that well. He walked straight toward a streetlight to see if he could locate an intersection. That was his testimony and the jury obviously believed him.

I call "bullshit" on he didn't know the neighborhood that well for a couple of reasons:

#1 He'd lived in the development for over two years.

#2 The intersection of Retreat View Circle and Twin Trees Lane are the two streets that meet at the North and South Gates which means each and every time he drove into or out of the development those are the streets he would see.

#3 He was the Neighborhood Watch Captain and in our organization the main Captain and the Block Captains get complete address lists for the development so they can contact people when needed.

#4 During his video interviews he talked about walking his dog aground the neighborhood.

#5 There are only three freaking streets in the Neighborhood: Retreat View Circle (loops around the outside), Twin Trees Lane (bisects the development roughly north/south), and Long Oak Way which is a small connecting road in the Sourthwest quadrant which is not even relevant to the events that night. And yes, I don't live there, am not the Neighborhood Watch Captain, and don't walk my dog in the area and just pulled those names from memory.​

OK, that more than a couple of reasons. Sorry.



>>>>

 

[Plasmaball]

waits for the circular logic to kick in