Salon.com: "America is Ready for Socialism!" (Didn't we fight against Socialism in WW II?)

[westwall]

We fought socialism in world war 2? Really? We fought with the USSR against the fascist pigs. In the words of a fascist: "Fascism is a mix of corporate and state power"

We fought against collectivism, yes. Socialism is a form of collectivism. The National Socialist German Workers Party was most certainly an extreme form of socialism.

My God, the Right will do anything to distance themselves from Nazis.

Actually it's the other way round. There are only two types of government systems. Collectivist and individualist. Fascist, Socialist, Communist, are all the same house. They are merely painted slightly different colors. Individualist government in its extreme form is anarchy in other words no government.

Your claim that nazis are right wingers and socialists are left wingers but as any thinking person can tell you that is simply not true. That is a propaganda construct created by the Fabian Socialists to try and distance themselves from the wanton murder of the political systems they helped devise.

For someone who claims to be a "political junky" you sure don't know much about political systems.

Fascism and socialism/communism are not at all related, it's pathetic to try to relate them, considering hitler invaded the soviet union and broke with the "socialist" message after acquiring power.

Sure they are. They both place government control over that of the individual. They both assume that when the individual is no longer of value to the State they are superfluous and can be got rid of.
They both take the majority of the workers money because they assume that the people aren't capable of caring for themselves and use that money to buy whatever votes they need to remain in power.

When you look at how the Nazi's and the Soviets treated their citizens there is virtually no difference.
One other thing that is similar to both is that when they go to war the individual is EXPECTED to die for the country, variously called the "The Fatherland", or in Soviet parlance "The Motherland", whereas in a "free" society we are grateful for the individuals sacrifice.

There is no question that fascism and socialism are related. Only brainwashed drones think otherwise.

 

[Socialist]

Bullshit. They all want it. They all endorse government run healthcare. The all endorse the progressive income tax. The all endorse massive government regulations. The all endorse the EPA, DOE, SEC, DOT, . . . . . . yada, yada, yada.

Then they claim the are opposed to government control.

Socialists are all delusional.[/QUOTE]
Government run healthcare seems to work quite well if you don't label every solitary source as "propaganda" to fit your idiotic worldview. The progressive income tax is common sense, and it works, sorry. Regulations are needed to control the capitalists, as shown throughout history. They are opposed to government control? Yes, I personally am when it comes to many thing, but there is a difference between an authoritarian dictatorship like the soviet union and america, you fucking idiot.[/QUOTE]

In other words you endorse government controlling the means of my survival.

Thanks for admitting it.[/QUOTE]
Apparently, universal healthcare and environmental regulations are the most evil thing to you.

 

[bripat9643]

"Means of production" is me. Socialism is slavery.

Socialism is simply the re-invigoration of Feudalism. It is placing all capital in the hands of a ruling elite to distribute as they see fit. All capital, including human capital, is the exclusive property of the state, to be disposed of as the state sees fit.

Socialism, as discussed by almost all socialists/people who don't spew baseless bullshit, refers to democratic control of the means of production. You're describing state capitalism.

ROFL! yeah, we know that socialist believe in a triangle with four sides.

 

[bripat9643]

Bullshit. They all want it. They all endorse government run healthcare. The all endorse the progressive income tax. The all endorse massive government regulations. The all endorse the EPA, DOE, SEC, DOT, . . . . . . yada, yada, yada.

Then they claim the are opposed to government control.

Socialists are all delusional.

Government run healthcare seems to work quite well if you don't label every solitary source as "propaganda" to fit your idiotic worldview. The progressive income tax is common sense, and it works, sorry. Regulations are needed to control the capitalists, as shown throughout history. They are opposed to government control? Yes, I personally am when it comes to many thing, but there is a difference between an authoritarian dictatorship like the soviet union and america, you fucking idiot.[/QUOTE]

In other words you endorse government controlling the means of my survival.

Thanks for admitting it.[/QUOTE]
Apparently, universal healthcare and environmental regulations are the most evil thing to you.[/QUOTE]

Those are only a small part of the government control you endorse, and, yes, they are both evil. The EPA is especially evil because it has turned into a rogue agency infested with communist who want to destroy the American economy.

 

[Socialist]

We fought socialism in world war 2? Really? We fought with the USSR against the fascist pigs. In the words of a fascist: "Fascism is a mix of corporate and state power"

We fought against collectivism, yes. Socialism is a form of collectivism. The National Socialist German Workers Party was most certainly an extreme form of socialism.

My God, the Right will do anything to distance themselves from Nazis.

Actually it's the other way round. There are only two types of government systems. Collectivist and individualist. Fascist, Socialist, Communist, are all the same house. They are merely painted slightly different colors. Individualist government in its extreme form is anarchy in other words no government.

Your claim that nazis are right wingers and socialists are left wingers but as any thinking person can tell you that is simply not true. That is a propaganda construct created by the Fabian Socialists to try and distance themselves from the wanton murder of the political systems they helped devise.

For someone who claims to be a "political junky" you sure don't know much about political systems.

Fascism and socialism/communism are not at all related, it's pathetic to try to relate them, considering hitler invaded the soviet union and broke with the "socialist" message after acquiring power.

Sure they are. They both place government control over that of the individual. They both assume that when the individual is no longer of value to the State they are superfluous and can be got rid of.
They both take the majority of the workers money because they assume that the people aren't capable of caring for themselves and use that money to buy whatever votes they need to remain in power.

When you look at how the Nazi's and the Soviets treated their citizens there is virtually no difference.
One other thing that is similar to both is that when they go to war the individual is EXPECTED to die for the country, variously called the "The Fatherland", or in Soviet parlance "The Motherland", whereas in a "free" society we are grateful for the individuals sacrifice.

There is no question that fascism and socialism are related. Only brainwashed drones think otherwise.

You're referring to the actions carried out by the soviet union/germany during world war 2 as your basis for labeling the ideological views of all socialists/communists, and heck, even fascists, which is sad, truly, I pity you. They assume people aren't capable of caring for themselves? Yes, I'd love for you to back that up, along with the "buying votes claim." Wait, hold on, wasn't the soviet union an authoritarian dictatorship? Make up your mind. No difference? NO DIFFERENCE? LOOOOOOOOL. They are not related, at all, theirs a reason hitler killed socialists/communists.

 

[dblack]

Apparently, universal healthcare and environmental regulations are the most evil thing to you.

[/Quote][/quote]
The most evil thing to me is violence, the act of voicing another person to bend to your will. That your will is supported by the majority is irrelevant.

 

[Socialist]

Bullshit. They all want it. They all endorse government run healthcare. The all endorse the progressive income tax. The all endorse massive government regulations. The all endorse the EPA, DOE, SEC, DOT, . . . . . . yada, yada, yada.

Then they claim the are opposed to government control.

Socialists are all delusional.

Government run healthcare seems to work quite well if you don't label every solitary source as "propaganda" to fit your idiotic worldview. The progressive income tax is common sense, and it works, sorry. Regulations are needed to control the capitalists, as shown throughout history. They are opposed to government control? Yes, I personally am when it comes to many thing, but there is a difference between an authoritarian dictatorship like the soviet union and america, you fucking idiot.

In other words you endorse government controlling the means of my survival.

Thanks for admitting it.[/QUOTE]
Apparently, universal healthcare and environmental regulations are the most evil thing to you.[/QUOTE]

Those are only a small part of the government control you endorse, and, yes, they are both evil. The EPA is especially evil because it has turned into a rogue agency infested with communist who want to destroy the American economy.[/QUOTE]
How is universal healthcare and environmental protection evil? LOL. How the hell is the EPA infested with a communist?

 

[Socialist]

"Means of production" is me. Socialism is slavery.

Socialism is simply the re-invigoration of Feudalism. It is placing all capital in the hands of a ruling elite to distribute as they see fit. All capital, including human capital, is the exclusive property of the state, to be disposed of as the state sees fit.

Socialism, as discussed by almost all socialists/people who don't spew baseless bullshit, refers to democratic control of the means of production. You're describing state capitalism.

ROFL! yeah, we know that socialist believe in a triangle with four sides.

No, I really do not, none the less, I have better things to do then listen to someone who believes the EPA is communist and that the WHO/doctors without borders/unicef are all marxist.

 

[dblack]

Apparently, universal healthcare and environmental regulations are the most evil thing to you.

The most evil thing to me is violence, the act of voicing another person to bend to your will. That your will is supported by the majority is irrelevant.

 

[bripat9643]

Bullshit. They all want it. They all endorse government run healthcare. The all endorse the progressive income tax. The all endorse massive government regulations. The all endorse the EPA, DOE, SEC, DOT, . . . . . . yada, yada, yada.

Then they claim the are opposed to government control.

Socialists are all delusional.

Government run healthcare seems to work quite well if you don't label every solitary source as "propaganda" to fit your idiotic worldview. The progressive income tax is common sense, and it works, sorry. Regulations are needed to control the capitalists, as shown throughout history. They are opposed to government control? Yes, I personally am when it comes to many thing, but there is a difference between an authoritarian dictatorship like the soviet union and america, you fucking idiot.

In other words you endorse government controlling the means of my survival.

Thanks for admitting it.

Apparently, universal healthcare and environmental regulations are the most evil thing to you.[/QUOTE]

Those are only a small part of the government control you endorse, and, yes, they are both evil. The EPA is especially evil because it has turned into a rogue agency infested with communist who want to destroy the American economy.[/QUOTE]
How is universal healthcare and environmental protection evil? LOL. How the hell is the EPA infested with a communist?[/QUOTE]

Both use force against innocent people to achieve their ends. Initiating force against people is evil. That makes almost all the government does evil.

The EPA, for example, can make private property totally useless to the person who owns it by finding it's part of the habitat of an endangered species. Such actions constitute a taking of private property. It's recent war on coal is driving up the cost of energy. I could go on and on all day about the crimes the EPA has committed.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Capitalism cannot function without a state regulating the capitalists, this is proven in all instances, unless you're ok with child labor, 60 hour work weeks, pitiful wages, environmental destruction..

Actually, child labor, 80 hour work weeks, and environmental destruction are all features of communism, not Capitalism. These are the gifts you offer the world.

You don't even know what the economic systems are, or how they operate. Societies are built with either a foundation in law, or a foundation in dictatorship. The economic system in place does not dictate which - though socialism is authoritarian in nature since men do not work to their own harm absent force. Laws regulating social parameters are not contrary to a market, nor do they make the market a function of the state.

State Capitalism is contradiction in terms, and oxymoron, and rather stupid.

 

[Socialist]

Bullshit. They all want it. They all endorse government run healthcare. The all endorse the progressive income tax. The all endorse massive government regulations. The all endorse the EPA, DOE, SEC, DOT, . . . . . . yada, yada, yada.

Then they claim the are opposed to government control.

Socialists are all delusional.

Government run healthcare seems to work quite well if you don't label every solitary source as "propaganda" to fit your idiotic worldview. The progressive income tax is common sense, and it works, sorry. Regulations are needed to control the capitalists, as shown throughout history. They are opposed to government control? Yes, I personally am when it comes to many thing, but there is a difference between an authoritarian dictatorship like the soviet union and america, you fucking idiot.

In other words you endorse government controlling the means of my survival.

Thanks for admitting it.

Apparently, universal healthcare and environmental regulations are the most evil thing to you.

Those are only a small part of the government control you endorse, and, yes, they are both evil. The EPA is especially evil because it has turned into a rogue agency infested with communist who want to destroy the American economy.[/QUOTE]
How is universal healthcare and environmental protection evil? LOL. How the hell is the EPA infested with a communist?[/QUOTE]

Both use force against innocent people to achieve their ends. Initiating force against people is evil. That makes almost all the government does evil.

The EPA, for example, can make private property totally useless to the person who owns it by finding it's part of the habitat of an endangered species. Such actions constitute a taking of private property. It's recent war on coal is driving up the cost of energy. I could go on and on all day about the crimes the EPA has committed.[/QUOTE]
Yes, and the EPA rarely takes someone house to protect an endangered species, what, should we hate businesses for taking peoples home/effectively forcing them out by surrounding them? Oh wait, you're fine with that, as long as it's not government. War on coal? Good, keep it up. Still like to see how they're communist.

 

[bripat9643]

"Means of production" is me. Socialism is slavery.

Socialism is simply the re-invigoration of Feudalism. It is placing all capital in the hands of a ruling elite to distribute as they see fit. All capital, including human capital, is the exclusive property of the state, to be disposed of as the state sees fit.

Socialism, as discussed by almost all socialists/people who don't spew baseless bullshit, refers to democratic control of the means of production. You're describing state capitalism.

ROFL! yeah, we know that socialist believe in a triangle with four sides.

No, I really do not, none the less, I have better things to do then listen to someone who believes the EPA is communist and that the WHO/doctors without borders/unicef are all marxist.

Yes, you do. You believe in "democratic socialism," which is an oxymoron. By the way, if socialism requires democracy, then why put the qualifier "democratic" in front of socialism?

BTW, I didn't say the doctors were Marxist. I said the WHO is Marxist. Not everyone who lived in the USSR was a Marxist. Your reasoning abilities are severely substandard.

 

[Uncensored2008]

You keep bringing up st petersburg and yet, I cannot find anything remotely related to support your ludicrous claims. Oh lord, Ayn rand is your source? Socialism mixed with democracy results in the most evil? Based on what, one semi-autobiographical piece of writing by ayn rand and complete ignorance of the revolutionary period in the soviet union?

When groups can vote on the life or death of others - that is evil. That you are ignorant of history and economics is well understood by all here.

You have yet to back this up, and I'm literally, desperately, searching for where your getting your revisionist history on the revolutionary period.

Start here;

Soviet Everyday Life

 

[Socialist]

Capitalism cannot function without a state regulating the capitalists, this is proven in all instances, unless you're ok with child labor, 60 hour work weeks, pitiful wages, environmental destruction..

Actually, child labor, 80 hour work weeks, and environmental destruction are all features of communism, not Capitalism. These are the gifts you offer the world.

You don't even know what the economic systems are, or how they operate. Societies are built with either a foundation in law, or a foundation in dictatorship. The economic system in place does not dictate which - though socialism is authoritarian in nature since men do not work to their own harm absent force. Laws regulating social parameters are not contrary to a market, nor do they make the market a function of the state.

State Capitalism is contradiction in terms, and oxymoron, and rather stupid.

Child labor rampantly occurs in all capitalist societies without regulation, as it did in america, 80 hour work weeks? Tell me more about america before regulations or any modern capitalist state without regulations.

 

[Socialist]

You keep bringing up st petersburg and yet, I cannot find anything remotely related to support your ludicrous claims. Oh lord, Ayn rand is your source? Socialism mixed with democracy results in the most evil? Based on what, one semi-autobiographical piece of writing by ayn rand and complete ignorance of the revolutionary period in the soviet union?

When groups can vote on the life or death of others - that is evil. That you are ignorant of history and economics is well understood by all here.

You have yet to back this up, and I'm literally, desperately, searching for where your getting your revisionist history on the revolutionary period.

Start here;

Soviet Everyday Life

I'm referring to the period where Lenin was alive and the revolution was in full swing, not the later years. This would come obvious to you if you kept up with our conversation.

 

[Uncensored2008]

So is flooding the market with cheap goods until your competitors fold and then raising prices because you have no more competition a "good thing"? That was the Chinese model. It's also called "unrestrained competition". What you want.

Market flooding is restraint of trade.

You have no grasp of the subject you post on.

 

[Socialist]

"Means of production" is me. Socialism is slavery.

Socialism is simply the re-invigoration of Feudalism. It is placing all capital in the hands of a ruling elite to distribute as they see fit. All capital, including human capital, is the exclusive property of the state, to be disposed of as the state sees fit.

Socialism, as discussed by almost all socialists/people who don't spew baseless bullshit, refers to democratic control of the means of production. You're describing state capitalism.

ROFL! yeah, we know that socialist believe in a triangle with four sides.

No, I really do not, none the less, I have better things to do then listen to someone who believes the EPA is communist and that the WHO/doctors without borders/unicef are all marxist.

Yes, you do. You believe in "democratic socialism," which is an oxymoron. By the way, if socialism requires democracy, then why put the qualifier "democratic" in front of socialism?

BTW, I didn't say the doctors were Marxist. I said the WHO is Marxist. Not everyone who lived in the USSR was a Marxist. Your reasoning abilities are severely substandard.

Doctors without borders strongly supports healthcare for all, same with the WHO, they're both marxist by your standards. Of course they weren't all marxists, who said that?
"

1. Democratic socialism is a political ideology advocating a democratic political system alongside a socialist economic system, involving a combination of political democracy with social ownership of the means of production.

"

 

[Uncensored2008]

Child labor rampantly occurs in all capitalist societies without regulation, as it did in america, 80 hour work weeks? Tell me more about america before regulations or any modern capitalist state without regulations.

No, child labor occurs in economies which are transitioning from agrarian to industrial, as it did in the Soviet Union and Communist China (and continues) as well as North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela.

Child prostitution is rampant in socialist states - does that make it a feature of the economic system, or is it simply a matter of criminality. Again, your arguments are absurd, childish and without merit.

 

[dblack]

Doctors without borders strongly supports healthcare for all, same with the WHO, they're both marxist by your standards. Of course they weren't all marxists, who said that?
"

1. Democratic socialism is a political ideology advocating a democratic political system alongside a socialist economic system, involving a combination of political democracy with social ownership of the means of production.

"

I'm starting a new organization - "Software Without Borders" - that supports websites for all. Financed by taxpayers, of course. You no doubt support our cause, right?