Salvation is free and will be enforced.

[yiostheoy]

Romans 3New International Version (NIV)
God’s Faithfulness

3 What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? 2 Much in every way!A)'> First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God.B)'>

3 What if some were unfaithful?C)'> Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness?D)'> 4 Not at all! Let God be true,E)'> and every human being a liar.F)'> As it is written:

“So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge.”a]' data-fn="#fen-NIV-27996a">[a]G)'>

5 But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly,H)'> what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.)I)'> 6 Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world?J)'> 7 Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory,K)'> why am I still condemned as a sinner?”L)'> 8 Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”?M)'> Their condemnation is just!

No One Is Righteous
9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage?N)'> Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.O)'> 10 As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”b]' data-fn="#fen-NIV-28004b">[b]P)'>
13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”c]' data-fn="#fen-NIV-28005c">[c]Q)'>
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”d]' data-fn="#fen-NIV-28005d">[d]R)'>
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”e]' data-fn="#fen-NIV-28006e">[e]S)'>
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.”f]' data-fn="#fen-NIV-28009f">[f]T)'>
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”g]' data-fn="#fen-NIV-28010g">[g]U)'>

19 Now we know that whatever the law says,V)'> it says to those who are under the law,W)'> so that every mouth may be silencedX)'> and the whole world held accountable to God.Y)'> 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law;Z)'> rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.AA)'>

Righteousness Through Faith
21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of GodAB)'> has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.AC)'> 22 This righteousnessAD)'> is given through faithAE)'> inh]' data-fn="#fen-NIV-28014h">[h] Jesus ChristAF)'> to all who believe.AG)'> There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,AH)'> 23 for all have sinnedAI)'> and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justifiedAJ)'> freely by his graceAK)'> through the redemptionAL)'> that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,i]' data-fn="#fen-NIV-28017i">[i]AM)'> through the shedding of his bloodAN)'>—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunishedAO)'>— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

27 Where, then, is boasting?AP)'> It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.AQ)'> 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too,AR)'> 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.AS)'> 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

see my literal translation supra.

you missed it.

St. Paul was talking about the Jews and the Greeks of his day -- not us.

We cam 2000 years later.

so you have a major anachronism.

this happens to everybody who tries to use the Bible like a cookbook.

 

[LittleNipper]

Romans 3New International Version (NIV)
God’s Faithfulness

3 What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? 2 Much in every way!A)'> First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God.B)'>

3 What if some were unfaithful?C)'> Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness?D)'> 4 Not at all! Let God be true,E)'> and every human being a liar.F)'> As it is written:

“So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge.”a]' data-fn="#fen-NIV-27996a">[a]G)'>

5 But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly,H)'> what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.)I)'> 6 Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world?J)'> 7 Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory,K)'> why am I still condemned as a sinner?”L)'> 8 Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”?M)'> Their condemnation is just!

No One Is Righteous
9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage?N)'> Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.O)'> 10 As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”b]' data-fn="#fen-NIV-28004b">[b]P)'>
13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”c]' data-fn="#fen-NIV-28005c">[c]Q)'>
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”d]' data-fn="#fen-NIV-28005d">[d]R)'>
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”e]' data-fn="#fen-NIV-28006e">[e]S)'>
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.”f]' data-fn="#fen-NIV-28009f">[f]T)'>
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”g]' data-fn="#fen-NIV-28010g">[g]U)'>

19 Now we know that whatever the law says,V)'> it says to those who are under the law,W)'> so that every mouth may be silencedX)'> and the whole world held accountable to God.Y)'> 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law;Z)'> rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.AA)'>

Righteousness Through Faith
21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of GodAB)'> has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.AC)'> 22 This righteousnessAD)'> is given through faithAE)'> inh]' data-fn="#fen-NIV-28014h">[h] Jesus ChristAF)'> to all who believe.AG)'> There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,AH)'> 23 for all have sinnedAI)'> and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justifiedAJ)'> freely by his graceAK)'> through the redemptionAL)'> that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,i]' data-fn="#fen-NIV-28017i">[i]AM)'> through the shedding of his bloodAN)'>—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunishedAO)'>— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

27 Where, then, is boasting?AP)'> It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.AQ)'> 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too,AR)'> 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.AS)'> 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

see my literal translation supra.

you missed it.

St. Paul was talking about the Jews and the Greeks of his day -- not us.

We cam 2000 years later.

so you have a major anachronism.

this happens to everybody who tries to use the Bible like a cookbook.

Nothing has changed since the Fall of Adam. We all need the Savior. Apart from the Messiah there is no redemption. What Paul stated nearly 2000 years ago is just as true today.

 

[Mickiel]

God will force his freedom on humanity; we don't have a choice. There really is no such thing as " Choice" with God; its his way , or no way!

 

[Mickiel]

The salvation of all of humanity is a pre done deal of the century ; Christians can't limit it , religion cannot reduce it , sin cannot stop it.

That is how great the actual plan of God is! Don't you let these Christians pervert that awesome message to you.

 

[Mickiel]

Salvation is absolutely free; Romans 5:18; the grace of God has pardoned all of humanity; we are saved BECAUSE of God's kindness , forgiveness , mercy and his great love. And Christians cannot condemn you

 

[Clement]

I disagree , 90 % of the Christian conversation is how to condemn others who are not as " Righteous" as they are. Your always thinking of ways to limit the Kingdom of God and how to shut sinners off from that Kingdom. Like a lust. Jesus in Matt. 23:13," Woe to you Scribes and Pharisees, for you shut up the Kingdom from men."

Always judging; always condemning ; always placing a cost on freedom.

Wow. 90%. Are these the folks you chat with over coffee and donuts after church service?

I don't go to Christian churches , because I highly dislike their view of God and Christ. I disagree with their limited Atonement mentality , and I do not want to rub my shoulders with believers who are hell hounds. They handicap salvation in my view.

Yeah. That's my point. Your 90% statement is poppycock. You don't converse with Christians, you just denounce them. You might want to check your own limited mentality.

I was a Christian for 20 years, and I couldcareless what you think is poppycock. I don't care what Christians think; I don't care for mentalities wrapped in hell doctrines; I thank God he pulled me free from it. I am no longer bound.

So why are you posting? Reverse evangelization?

Misery loves company.

 

[Mickiel]

Wow. 90%. Are these the folks you chat with over coffee and donuts after church service?

I don't go to Christian churches , because I highly dislike their view of God and Christ. I disagree with their limited Atonement mentality , and I do not want to rub my shoulders with believers who are hell hounds. They handicap salvation in my view.

Yeah. That's my point. Your 90% statement is poppycock. You don't converse with Christians, you just denounce them. You might want to check your own limited mentality.

I was a Christian for 20 years, and I couldcareless what you think is poppycock. I don't care what Christians think; I don't care for mentalities wrapped in hell doctrines; I thank God he pulled me free from it. I am no longer bound.

So why are you posting? Reverse evangelization?

Misery loves company.

Why are you reading this misery? Then explain to me why so many others are reading it.

 

[Clement]

I don't go to Christian churches , because I highly dislike their view of God and Christ. I disagree with their limited Atonement mentality , and I do not want to rub my shoulders with believers who are hell hounds. They handicap salvation in my view.

Yeah. That's my point. Your 90% statement is poppycock. You don't converse with Christians, you just denounce them. You might want to check your own limited mentality.

I was a Christian for 20 years, and I couldcareless what you think is poppycock. I don't care what Christians think; I don't care for mentalities wrapped in hell doctrines; I thank God he pulled me free from it. I am no longer bound.

So why are you posting? Reverse evangelization?

Misery loves company.

Why are you reading this misery? Then explain to me why so many others are reading it.

The others read it because they are miserable, too. I read this stuff in the off chance that I might be able to steer someone who is playing along at home away from the misery toward the Truth.

 

[Mickiel]

Yeah. That's my point. Your 90% statement is poppycock. You don't converse with Christians, you just denounce them. You might want to check your own limited mentality.

I was a Christian for 20 years, and I couldcareless what you think is poppycock. I don't care what Christians think; I don't care for mentalities wrapped in hell doctrines; I thank God he pulled me free from it. I am no longer bound.

So why are you posting? Reverse evangelization?

Misery loves company.

Why are you reading this misery? Then explain to me why so many others are reading it.

The others read it because they are miserable, too. I read this stuff in the off chance that I might be able to steer someone who is playing along at home away from the misery toward the Truth.

In my experience and my study of scripture , all who would live in Christ must go through the misery. There is no short changing the suffering.

 

[Clement]

I was a Christian for 20 years, and I couldcareless what you think is poppycock. I don't care what Christians think; I don't care for mentalities wrapped in hell doctrines; I thank God he pulled me free from it. I am no longer bound.

So why are you posting? Reverse evangelization?

Misery loves company.

Why are you reading this misery? Then explain to me why so many others are reading it.

The others read it because they are miserable, too. I read this stuff in the off chance that I might be able to steer someone who is playing along at home away from the misery toward the Truth.

In my experience and my study of scripture , all who would live in Christ must go through the misery. There is no short changing the suffering.

You don't have to live through misery of your own making, you just stop making it.

 

[Mickiel]

So why are you posting? Reverse evangelization?

Misery loves company.

Why are you reading this misery? Then explain to me why so many others are reading it.

The others read it because they are miserable, too. I read this stuff in the off chance that I might be able to steer someone who is playing along at home away from the misery toward the Truth.

In my experience and my study of scripture , all who would live in Christ must go through the misery. There is no short changing the suffering.

You don't have to live through misery of your own making, you just stop making it.

Well that is true , but many people are weak and have no self control; they are not excluded from the grace of God. God and Jesus forgive ,because they love doing it , and they know we need it.

 

[Clement]

Misery loves company.

Why are you reading this misery? Then explain to me why so many others are reading it.

The others read it because they are miserable, too. I read this stuff in the off chance that I might be able to steer someone who is playing along at home away from the misery toward the Truth.

In my experience and my study of scripture , all who would live in Christ must go through the misery. There is no short changing the suffering.

You don't have to live through misery of your own making, you just stop making it.

Well that is true , but many people are weak and have no self control; they are not excluded from the grace of God. God and Jesus forgive ,because they love doing it , and they know we need it.

They are not excluded but they do have to repent, which means, quit doing it. What do you think the commands of God are for? They are to keep you from making yourself miserable and the people around you miserable.

 

[Mickiel]

Why are you reading this misery? Then explain to me why so many others are reading it.

The others read it because they are miserable, too. I read this stuff in the off chance that I might be able to steer someone who is playing along at home away from the misery toward the Truth.

In my experience and my study of scripture , all who would live in Christ must go through the misery. There is no short changing the suffering.

You don't have to live through misery of your own making, you just stop making it.

Well that is true , but many people are weak and have no self control; they are not excluded from the grace of God. God and Jesus forgive ,because they love doing it , and they know we need it.

They are not excluded but they do have to repent, which means, quit doing it. What do you think the commands of God are for? They are to keep you from making yourself miserable and the people around you miserable.

They don't have to repent, because God will force all of humanity to himself. God swore this in a holy vow ,recorded in Isaiah 45:23,"I have sworn to myself , the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness and cannot return to me void; that unto me EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY mouth shall confess;" this is the destiny of all of humanity. Whether they repent or not.

 

[Clement]

The others read it because they are miserable, too. I read this stuff in the off chance that I might be able to steer someone who is playing along at home away from the misery toward the Truth.

In my experience and my study of scripture , all who would live in Christ must go through the misery. There is no short changing the suffering.

You don't have to live through misery of your own making, you just stop making it.

Well that is true , but many people are weak and have no self control; they are not excluded from the grace of God. God and Jesus forgive ,because they love doing it , and they know we need it.

They are not excluded but they do have to repent, which means, quit doing it. What do you think the commands of God are for? They are to keep you from making yourself miserable and the people around you miserable.

They don't have to repent, because God will force all of humanity to himself. God swore this in a holy vow ,recorded in Isaiah 45:23,"I have sworn to myself , the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness and cannot return to me void; that unto me EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY mouth shall confess;" this is the destiny of all of humanity. Whether they repent or not.

It says they will finally bow to Him, it doesn't say they will be saved. When He returns they will finally get it, but it will be too late.

 

[Mickiel]

In my experience and my study of scripture , all who would live in Christ must go through the misery. There is no short changing the suffering.

You don't have to live through misery of your own making, you just stop making it.

Well that is true , but many people are weak and have no self control; they are not excluded from the grace of God. God and Jesus forgive ,because they love doing it , and they know we need it.

They are not excluded but they do have to repent, which means, quit doing it. What do you think the commands of God are for? They are to keep you from making yourself miserable and the people around you miserable.

They don't have to repent, because God will force all of humanity to himself. God swore this in a holy vow ,recorded in Isaiah 45:23,"I have sworn to myself , the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness and cannot return to me void; that unto me EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY mouth shall confess;" this is the destiny of all of humanity. Whether they repent or not.

It says they will finally bow to Him, it doesn't say they will be saved. When He returns they will finally get it, but it will be too late.

I disagree , Romans 10:9 says if you confess with your mouth and believe you SHALL be saved. God swore EVERY mouth will confess to him; its academic, you Christians can't reduce this great salvation.

 

[Clement]

You don't have to live through misery of your own making, you just stop making it.

Well that is true , but many people are weak and have no self control; they are not excluded from the grace of God. God and Jesus forgive ,because they love doing it , and they know we need it.

They are not excluded but they do have to repent, which means, quit doing it. What do you think the commands of God are for? They are to keep you from making yourself miserable and the people around you miserable.

They don't have to repent, because God will force all of humanity to himself. God swore this in a holy vow ,recorded in Isaiah 45:23,"I have sworn to myself , the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness and cannot return to me void; that unto me EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY mouth shall confess;" this is the destiny of all of humanity. Whether they repent or not.

It says they will finally bow to Him, it doesn't say they will be saved. When He returns they will finally get it, but it will be too late.

I disagree , Romans 10:9 says if you confess with your mouth and believe you SHALL be saved. God swore EVERY mouth will confess to him; its academic, you Christians can't reduce this great salvation.

Yeah, they will confess, but by that time it will be too late for them. I'm going to bed now, you're talking in circles.

 

[Mickiel]

Well that is true , but many people are weak and have no self control; they are not excluded from the grace of God. God and Jesus forgive ,because they love doing it , and they know we need it.

They are not excluded but they do have to repent, which means, quit doing it. What do you think the commands of God are for? They are to keep you from making yourself miserable and the people around you miserable.

They don't have to repent, because God will force all of humanity to himself. God swore this in a holy vow ,recorded in Isaiah 45:23,"I have sworn to myself , the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness and cannot return to me void; that unto me EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY mouth shall confess;" this is the destiny of all of humanity. Whether they repent or not.

It says they will finally bow to Him, it doesn't say they will be saved. When He returns they will finally get it, but it will be too late.

I disagree , Romans 10:9 says if you confess with your mouth and believe you SHALL be saved. God swore EVERY mouth will confess to him; its academic, you Christians can't reduce this great salvation.

Yeah, they will confess, but by that time it will be too late for them. I'm going to bed now, you're talking in circles.

I am talking salvation , something you Christians are blind to. There is no such thing as salvation being too late.

 

[Mickiel]

Luke 3:6 " And ALL FLESH shall see the salvation of God!"

Oh , glory to his great ways.

 

[Mickiel]

In 2 Pet. 3:9 , God is not willing ,( and he has not willed), that any human perish but that ALL come to repentance; this is God's will, and it will get done!

Praise God!

 

[Mickiel]

Again notice what God the Father has promised; ( and remember what God has stated trumps anything else ANY biblical person has stated , including Jesus.) , Isaiah 45:22-25 , a stunning promise from him to FORCE all of humanity to bow to him and believe in him.

Nothing in scripture can change this Holy Vow from God , he said it will NOT return to him void ; Christianity is trying to limit this great salvation from God. And they don't even realize their doing that. Its like being killed by someone who does not realize they are killing you.