Sanders Tax Plan Would Hammer Middle Class Families

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

The extra tax they pay would be more than made up for by the reduction in medical costs.

Based on what evidence? I already pointed out I would pay way more than I would get back.

 

[Political Junky]

The average middle class family would get hit with a $6,100 income tax increase under Bernie Sanders tax plan. My family's tax bill would increase over $16,000 according to this calculator. Anybody supporting this man should be a beaten with a stick

This simple calculator tells you how each presidential candidate's tax plan affects you

Here is how each candidate's tax plan affect me, according to your link, which I trust about as much as I believe an online personality test:

Well, Ezra Klein isn't exactly known for being a staunch conservative.

I'd rather take Klein's opinion over your right wing source.

 

[Agit8r]

Free tuition is proposed to be paid for by a tax on stock transactions, which would fall hardest on day traders. That hardly affects the average household.

That hardly affects the average household.

Just the ones that own stocks, or mutual funds, or IRAs or 401Ks. Or have pensions.

It's a .5% tax on each transaction. Unless you are trading stocks daily (something that is of no value to the economy) it's not going to affect you much. It might even make the value of your 401k more stable, as worthless chiselers aren't stealing pennies out of it anymore.

It's a .5% tax on each transaction. Unless you are trading stocks daily (something that is of no value to the economy) it's not going to affect you much.

Mutual funds trade all the time. I guess you won't mind a lower fund balance when you retire.

It might even make the value of your 401k more stable, as worthless chiselers aren't stealing pennies out of it anymore.

That sounds interesting. How do "worthless chiselers" steal pennies out of my 401K?

If people make money of of trading stocks, that money comes from somewhere. It comes out of the profit of long term investors (i.e. those with retirement funds)

If people make money of of trading stocks, that money comes from somewhere. It comes out of the profit of long term investors

I bought 500 shares of Altria in 2000.
How does day trading, or any trading, take any profit from my holdings?
Walk through the steps you came up with.

Day trading relies on timing. Buy low, sell high. Once the stock is sold, the remaining stock loses values, the market adjusts, then the lamprey strikes again. The amount of productive capitals is made less stable--less attractive for long-term investment, and thus, worth less to each stock holder.

If it were mere gambling, the capitals might have a chance to recover. However, there are now computed algorithms, that pervert the odds in favor of the chiselers, and to the detriment of productive people.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That hardly affects the average household.

Just the ones that own stocks, or mutual funds, or IRAs or 401Ks. Or have pensions.

It's a .5% tax on each transaction. Unless you are trading stocks daily (something that is of no value to the economy) it's not going to affect you much. It might even make the value of your 401k more stable, as worthless chiselers aren't stealing pennies out of it anymore.

It's a .5% tax on each transaction. Unless you are trading stocks daily (something that is of no value to the economy) it's not going to affect you much.

Mutual funds trade all the time. I guess you won't mind a lower fund balance when you retire.

It might even make the value of your 401k more stable, as worthless chiselers aren't stealing pennies out of it anymore.

That sounds interesting. How do "worthless chiselers" steal pennies out of my 401K?

If people make money of of trading stocks, that money comes from somewhere. It comes out of the profit of long term investors (i.e. those with retirement funds)

If people make money of of trading stocks, that money comes from somewhere. It comes out of the profit of long term investors

I bought 500 shares of Altria in 2000.
How does day trading, or any trading, take any profit from my holdings?
Walk through the steps you came up with.

Day trading relies on timing. Buy low, sell high. Once the stock is sold, the remaining stock loses values, the market adjusts, then the lamprey strikes again. The amount of productive capitals is made less stable--less attractive for long-term investment, and thus, worth less to each stock holder.

If it were mere gambling, the capitals might have a chance to recover. However, there are now computed algorithms, that pervert the odds in favor of the chiselers, and to the detriment of productive people.

Day trading relies on timing. Buy low, sell high. Once the stock is sold, the remaining stock loses values, the market adjusts, then the lamprey strikes again.

How does that take profit from the stock I've held since the year 2000?

 

[Agit8r]

Free tuition is proposed to be paid for by a tax on stock transactions, which would fall hardest on day traders. That hardly affects the average household.

And exactly what obligates those people to pay for someone else's college tuition? Is there some reason why adults can't provide for themselves?

Whether you think it is fair or not, it is a benefit for the whole of society to have an educated population.

"It is better for the poorer classes to have the aid of the richer by a general tax on property, than that every parent should provide at his own expence for the education of his children, it is certain that every Class is interested in establishments which give to the human mind its highest improvements, and to every Country its truest and most durable celebrity."
-- James Madison; from letter to W.T. Barry (Aug. 4, 1822)

 

[Agit8r]

It's a .5% tax on each transaction. Unless you are trading stocks daily (something that is of no value to the economy) it's not going to affect you much. It might even make the value of your 401k more stable, as worthless chiselers aren't stealing pennies out of it anymore.

It's a .5% tax on each transaction. Unless you are trading stocks daily (something that is of no value to the economy) it's not going to affect you much.

Mutual funds trade all the time. I guess you won't mind a lower fund balance when you retire.

It might even make the value of your 401k more stable, as worthless chiselers aren't stealing pennies out of it anymore.

That sounds interesting. How do "worthless chiselers" steal pennies out of my 401K?

If people make money of of trading stocks, that money comes from somewhere. It comes out of the profit of long term investors (i.e. those with retirement funds)

If people make money of of trading stocks, that money comes from somewhere. It comes out of the profit of long term investors

I bought 500 shares of Altria in 2000.
How does day trading, or any trading, take any profit from my holdings?
Walk through the steps you came up with.

Day trading relies on timing. Buy low, sell high. Once the stock is sold, the remaining stock loses values, the market adjusts, then the lamprey strikes again. The amount of productive capitals is made less stable--less attractive for long-term investment, and thus, worth less to each stock holder.

If it were mere gambling, the capitals might have a chance to recover. However, there are now computed algorithms, that pervert the odds in favor of the chiselers, and to the detriment of productive people.

Day trading relies on timing. Buy low, sell high. Once the stock is sold, the remaining stock loses values, the market adjusts, then the lamprey strikes again.

How does that take profit from the stock I've held since the year 2000?

It doesn't mean that the stock won't earn any profit. It means that the stock will always have less value than it would otherwise, because monies that would be available day-to-day for reinvestment, have gone into somebody else's pocket.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It's a .5% tax on each transaction. Unless you are trading stocks daily (something that is of no value to the economy) it's not going to affect you much.

Mutual funds trade all the time. I guess you won't mind a lower fund balance when you retire.

It might even make the value of your 401k more stable, as worthless chiselers aren't stealing pennies out of it anymore.

That sounds interesting. How do "worthless chiselers" steal pennies out of my 401K?

If people make money of of trading stocks, that money comes from somewhere. It comes out of the profit of long term investors (i.e. those with retirement funds)

If people make money of of trading stocks, that money comes from somewhere. It comes out of the profit of long term investors

I bought 500 shares of Altria in 2000.
How does day trading, or any trading, take any profit from my holdings?
Walk through the steps you came up with.

Day trading relies on timing. Buy low, sell high. Once the stock is sold, the remaining stock loses values, the market adjusts, then the lamprey strikes again. The amount of productive capitals is made less stable--less attractive for long-term investment, and thus, worth less to each stock holder.

If it were mere gambling, the capitals might have a chance to recover. However, there are now computed algorithms, that pervert the odds in favor of the chiselers, and to the detriment of productive people.

Day trading relies on timing. Buy low, sell high. Once the stock is sold, the remaining stock loses values, the market adjusts, then the lamprey strikes again.

How does that take profit from the stock I've held since the year 2000?

It doesn't mean that the stock won't earn any profit. It means that the stock will always have less value than it would otherwise, because monies that would be available day-to-day for reinvestment, have gone into somebody else's pocket.

It means that the stock will always have less value than it would otherwise, because monies that would be available day-to-day for reinvestment, has gone into somebody else's pocket.

If I rapidly trade a million shares of stock a day, how am I taking away money "that would be available day-to-day for reinvestment"?
Be specific.

 

[Yarddog]

Problem solved, elect him for NFL commissioner

 

[oreo]

The average middle class family would get hit with a $6,100 income tax increase under Bernie Sanders tax plan. My family's tax bill would increase over $16,000 according to this calculator. Anybody supporting this man should be a beaten with a stick

This simple calculator tells you how each presidential candidate's tax plan affects you

Yeah anytime you have a politician, or in this instance a socialist out there campaigning on free college tuition, you better bet it's going to hit your wallet. We have a lot of stupid people in this country that believe that the 1% can take care of the other 99%--LOL But there isn't really anyone that is a "trillionaire" That animal does not exist.

SOCIALISM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."Winston Churchill

 

[Agit8r]

If people make money of of trading stocks, that money comes from somewhere. It comes out of the profit of long term investors (i.e. those with retirement funds)

If people make money of of trading stocks, that money comes from somewhere. It comes out of the profit of long term investors

I bought 500 shares of Altria in 2000.
How does day trading, or any trading, take any profit from my holdings?
Walk through the steps you came up with.

Day trading relies on timing. Buy low, sell high. Once the stock is sold, the remaining stock loses values, the market adjusts, then the lamprey strikes again. The amount of productive capitals is made less stable--less attractive for long-term investment, and thus, worth less to each stock holder.

If it were mere gambling, the capitals might have a chance to recover. However, there are now computed algorithms, that pervert the odds in favor of the chiselers, and to the detriment of productive people.

Day trading relies on timing. Buy low, sell high. Once the stock is sold, the remaining stock loses values, the market adjusts, then the lamprey strikes again.

How does that take profit from the stock I've held since the year 2000?

It doesn't mean that the stock won't earn any profit. It means that the stock will always have less value than it would otherwise, because monies that would be available day-to-day for reinvestment, have gone into somebody else's pocket.

It means that the stock will always have less value than it would otherwise, because monies that would be available day-to-day for reinvestment, has gone into somebody else's pocket.

If I rapidly trade a million shares of stock a day, how am I taking away money "that would be available day-to-day for reinvestment"?
Be specific.

Gee, I'm trying to think of an example that might be simple enough for you to understand. Suppose you and four of your friends start a lemonade stand. Everyone invests $20. Everyone is able to withdraw their investment and their share of profit at any time.

Then assume that each of you were foolish enough to also allow each person to reinvest at the present value of the company. After 2 weeks, the company is worth 1/8 more than it was on day 1. One of the investors ( let's call him Steve) then withdraws his money and his share of profit.

The company is then worth 1-1/8 minus 1/5 (i.e. .925 of it's original worth). Steve now has .225 of the original amount. The remaining investors have .231 as their share. But then, weather turns unexpectedly rainy for several days, and the lemonade stand isn't making as much money.

Steve offers to buy back his share but insists that it is now worth less because the lemonade isn't selling and who knows when the rain will stop? He says it is worth 3/4 of their original value. The weather forecast seems to support his opinion, as there is now rain forecast for some time. Steve reinvests $15 and pockets $7.25.

Two days later, the weather clears and forecasts say it will sty that way the rest of the summer. Profits increase, and the stock returns to 1-1/8 of its original value. Steve then withdraws his investment along with his profit. He has now made $10. The other investors have made $3.44

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Free tuition is proposed to be paid for by a tax on stock transactions, which would fall hardest on day traders. That hardly affects the average household.

And exactly what obligates those people to pay for someone else's college tuition? Is there some reason why adults can't provide for themselves?

Whether you think it is fair or not, it is a benefit for the whole of society to have an educated population.

"It is better for the poorer classes to have the aid of the richer by a general tax on property, than that every parent should provide at his own expence for the education of his children, it is certain that every Class is interested in establishments which give to the human mind its highest improvements, and to every Country its truest and most durable celebrity."
-- James Madison; from letter to W.T. Barry (Aug. 4, 1822)

I would hardly call what is being cranked out at universities these days education. We already give a "free" education to children. Once you're an adult if you want to continue your education then act like an adult and provide for it yourself. I understand that personal responsibility may be a hard concept for you, but try grasping it.

We are a society of individual rights, not collective. If it's a collective you want then I suggest you move to Cuba where you'll fit in better. They're open for business now, you know.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

The average middle class family would get hit with a $6,100 income tax increase under Bernie Sanders tax plan. My family's tax bill would increase over $16,000 according to this calculator. Anybody supporting this man should be a beaten with a stick

This simple calculator tells you how each presidential candidate's tax plan affects you

It's not your place to even make such a calculation. That wasn't your money to begin with. It always belonged to the people! Be grateful you are allowed to keep any selfish amount at all. It sounds like you could benefit from a few decades working on a collective farm learning 'correct' thinking.

The difference is he earned his money that he worked for, rather than have the government supply it for him. The fact he pays taxes gives, him the right to be concerned with how our government utilizes and spends that money. The "people" have a right and control over their respective government, never the other way around. If anything needs to happen it's limits placed on able bodied individuals who live off the government, much the same as unemployment. Once that amount runs out, you are required to provide for yourself. Our government was established offering the people the opportunity towards their own pursuit of happiness, it was never guaranteed to be provided FOR them.

 

[Toro]

The average middle class family would get hit with a $6,100 income tax increase under Bernie Sanders tax plan. My family's tax bill would increase over $16,000 according to this calculator. Anybody supporting this man should be a beaten with a stick

This simple calculator tells you how each presidential candidate's tax plan affects you

As if I needed another reason not to vote for Bernie.

 

[Mac1958]

The average middle class family would get hit with a $6,100 income tax increase under Bernie Sanders tax plan. My family's tax bill would increase over $16,000 according to this calculator. Anybody supporting this man should be a beaten with a stick

This simple calculator tells you how each presidential candidate's tax plan affects you

As if I needed another reason not to vote for Bernie.

Here's my thinking on this, not that you asked:

I think that Sanders and the more economically-educated people who agree with him (a minority of his supporters, sure) realize that their economic strategies will indeed lead to a lower standard of living for the top 40% or 50% or 60% of the country. I just think they don't want to admit that. They leave it out of the conversation.

But if they were willing to admit it, their answer to that - and frankly, it would make an interesting conversation - would be "yes, so?" -- they could argue that conspicuous consumerism doesn't necessarily increase one's standard of living (or happiness), it just gives them more stuff. Maybe people could live with a 36" TV instead of a 60" TV, or a Subaru instead of a Hummer. On and on.

I'm not necessarily condoning, but I just don't believe that those who understand macroeconomics and support Sanders aren't thinking this.
.

 

[sealybobo]

The average middle class family would get hit with a $6,100 income tax increase under Bernie Sanders tax plan. My family's tax bill would increase over $16,000 according to this calculator. Anybody supporting this man should be a beaten with a stick

This simple calculator tells you how each presidential candidate's tax plan affects you

Yea but there would be a middle class doing well.

Based on what evidence?

Same evidence that trump Cruz or kasich policies will help the middle class.

 

[MisterBeale]

The average middle class family would get hit with a $6,100 income tax increase under Bernie Sanders tax plan. My family's tax bill would increase over $16,000 according to this calculator. Anybody supporting this man should be a beaten with a stick

This simple calculator tells you how each presidential candidate's tax plan affects you

Yeah anytime you have a politician, or in this instance a socialist out there campaigning on free college tuition, you better bet it's going to hit your wallet. We have a lot of stupid people in this country that believe that the 1% can take care of the other 99%--LOL But there isn't really anyone that is a "trillionaire" That animal does not exist.

SOCIALISM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."Winston Churchill

When asked before a speech in Keene, N.H., what he would say to reassure the Bloomberg Businessweek readers who work on Wall Street, or have millions of dollars, or run a hedge fund, and might be afraid he wants to tax them back to the Carter Age, Sanders puts down the manila folder containing his talk, which he delivers without a TelePrompTer. “I’m not going to reassure them,” he says. “Their greed, their recklessness, their illegal behavior has destroyed the lives of millions of Americans. Frankly, if I were a hedge fund manager, I would not vote for Bernie Sanders. And I would contribute money to my opponents to try to defeat him.” Then the only socialist ever elected to the U.S. Senate goes back to working on his prepared remarks.
Why Bernie Sanders Doesn’t Want Your Vote

 

[RDD_1210]

I fully support Sanders and I promise you I am not doing it "for free shit".

If you're supporting Sanders then you are supporting free shit and that makes you a blight on society

I am supporting Sanders because I'd rather tax dollars go to supporting citizens here instead of killing people in endless wars around the globe and subsidies for corporations who don't give a shit about the American worker.

 

[RDD_1210]

The average middle class family would get hit with a $6,100 income tax increase under Bernie Sanders tax plan. My family's tax bill would increase over $16,000 according to this calculator. Anybody supporting this man should be a beaten with a stick

This simple calculator tells you how each presidential candidate's tax plan affects you

Yeah anytime you have a politician, or in this instance a socialist out there campaigning on free college tuition, you better bet it's going to hit your wallet. We have a lot of stupid people in this country that believe that the 1% can take care of the other 99%--LOL But there isn't really anyone that is a "trillionaire" That animal does not exist.

SOCIALISM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."Winston Churchill

When asked before a speech in Keene, N.H., what he would say to reassure the Bloomberg Businessweek readers who work on Wall Street, or have millions of dollars, or run a hedge fund, and might be afraid he wants to tax them back to the Carter Age, Sanders puts down the manila folder containing his talk, which he delivers without a TelePrompTer. “I’m not going to reassure them,” he says. “Their greed, their recklessness, their illegal behavior has destroyed the lives of millions of Americans. Frankly, if I were a hedge fund manager, I would not vote for Bernie Sanders. And I would contribute money to my opponents to try to defeat him.” Then the only socialist ever elected to the U.S. Senate goes back to working on his prepared remarks.
Why Bernie Sanders Doesn’t Want Your Vote

Great quote that shows Sanders is the only one who TRULY isn't bought off by big business and cares about the working class of this country.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If people make money of of trading stocks, that money comes from somewhere. It comes out of the profit of long term investors

I bought 500 shares of Altria in 2000.
How does day trading, or any trading, take any profit from my holdings?
Walk through the steps you came up with.

Day trading relies on timing. Buy low, sell high. Once the stock is sold, the remaining stock loses values, the market adjusts, then the lamprey strikes again. The amount of productive capitals is made less stable--less attractive for long-term investment, and thus, worth less to each stock holder.

If it were mere gambling, the capitals might have a chance to recover. However, there are now computed algorithms, that pervert the odds in favor of the chiselers, and to the detriment of productive people.

Day trading relies on timing. Buy low, sell high. Once the stock is sold, the remaining stock loses values, the market adjusts, then the lamprey strikes again.

How does that take profit from the stock I've held since the year 2000?

It doesn't mean that the stock won't earn any profit. It means that the stock will always have less value than it would otherwise, because monies that would be available day-to-day for reinvestment, have gone into somebody else's pocket.

It means that the stock will always have less value than it would otherwise, because monies that would be available day-to-day for reinvestment, has gone into somebody else's pocket.

If I rapidly trade a million shares of stock a day, how am I taking away money "that would be available day-to-day for reinvestment"?
Be specific.

Gee, I'm trying to think of an example that might be simple enough for you to understand. Suppose you and four of your friends start a lemonade stand. Everyone invests $20. Everyone is able to withdraw their investment and their share of profit at any time.

Then assume that each of you were foolish enough to also allow each person to reinvest at the present value of the company. After 2 weeks, the company is worth 1/8 more than it was on day 1. One of the investors ( let's call him Steve) then withdraws his money and his share of profit.

The company is then worth 1-1/8 minus 1/5 (i.e. .925 of it's original worth). Steve now has .225 of the original amount. The remaining investors have .231 as their share. But then, weather turns unexpectedly rainy for several days, and the lemonade stand isn't making as much money.

Steve offers to buy back his share but insists that it is now worth less because the lemonade isn't selling and who knows when the rain will stop? He says it is worth 3/4 of their original value. The weather forecast seems to support his opinion, as there is now rain forecast for some time. Steve reinvests $15 and pockets $7.25.

Two days later, the weather clears and forecasts say it will sty that way the rest of the summer. Profits increase, and the stock returns to 1-1/8 of its original value. Steve then withdraws his investment along with his profit. He has now made $10. The other investors have made $3.44

Thanks for trying.
Let me know if you actually come up with an example that proves your claim about day trading.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I fully support Sanders and I promise you I am not doing it "for free shit".

If you're supporting Sanders then you are supporting free shit and that makes you a blight on society

I am supporting Sanders because I'd rather tax dollars go to supporting citizens here instead of killing people in endless wars around the globe and subsidies for corporations who don't give a shit about the American worker.

I don't want to see my tax dollars going towards continuous war mongering either, but that doesn't mean I have to be a thieving Socialist.