School's transgender policy trumped teacher's religious rights, US court rules

[toobfreak]

With unlimited variations.

Show me the objective evidence of that and tell me how to differentiate it from merely unlimited variations of mental illness.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Show me the objective evidence of that and tell me how to differentiate it from merely unlimited variations of mental illness.

Put 100 people in a room and ask each to define what they view as masculine and what they view as feminine.

I bet you get at least 98 different answers.

Then look at how each are defined in different countries.

 

[toobfreak]

Put 100 people in a room and ask each to define what they view as masculine and what they view as feminine.
I bet you get at least 98 different answers.
Then look at how each are defined in different countries.

You have a room right here. Start your poll.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

You have a room right here. Start your poll.

I will start a new thread and see if people are willing

 

[toobfreak]

I will start a new thread and see if people are willing

And make it an open poll with clearly defined choices.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

And make it an open poll with clearly defined choices.

It will not be a poll at all, it will be a question and we will let people define it as they wish.

 

[toobfreak]

It will not be a poll at all, it will be a question and we will let people define it as they wish.

Without a poll, you have no way to organize, quantify or tabulate the results. Make it a poll.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Are you not aware there are XY women.
…
Or XX men?
…

 

[Seymour Flops]

School's transgender policy trumped teacher's religious rights, US court rules

An Indiana high school did not break the law by allegedly forcing a music teacher to quit after he refused on religious grounds to use transgender students' preferred names, a U.S. appeals court ruled on Friday. Forcing a teacher to quit over his refusal to use transgender students' preferred...

www.reuters.com

April 7 (Reuters) - An Indiana high school did not break the law by allegedly forcing a music teacher to quit after he refused on religious grounds to use transgender students' preferred names, a U.S. appeals court ruled on Friday.

The rights of the teacher, John Kluge, to exercise his religious beliefs were outweighed by the potential disruption that his conduct could have on the learning environment at Brownsburg High School in the Indianapolis suburbs, the Chicago-based 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said.

As a teacher, I have very mixed feelings about this.

On the one hand, I believe employers should be able to expect employees to comply with policies. On the other hand, a public school is not a private business in which the owner has property rights to conduct business as he sees fit. On yet other hands, when students perceive that a teacher disrespects them, they are not at all likely to respect the teacher and that can lead to disruptions, that can spill over into other classes and affect the learning of others. But, I hate to see a person lose their job for not going along with this latest fad, and for speaking the truth, i.e. using a student's legal name and true pronouns. Yet, many students ask to be called by nicknames, and I've never met a student who would insist on calling Eddie "Edward," if it annoyed him.


Here's where the school loses me and I fall on the side of the teacher:

The school initially allowed Kluge to call students by their last names but reneged after receiving complaints from students and faculty, according to court filings. He said he resigned in 2018 after he was told he would be fired.

Yeah no. The school and the teacher had reached a perfectly reasonable compromise. Firing him was way out of line. If he were going out of his way to call a student who had named himself "Joan," by the former name of "John," and making a point of saying "John," at every opportunity that's one thing. But calling the student "Smith" should have satisfied everyone.

But the 7th circuit disagreed.


Federal law only requires employers to accommodate workers' religious beliefs if it would not cause them an undue hardship.

Kluge in his lawsuit argued that allowing him to call students by their last names would not create a burden for the school.

The 7th Circuit on Friday disagreed, upholding an Indiana federal judge's ruling that dismissed the case.

"Kluge's last-names-only practice stigmatized the transgender students and caused them demonstrable emotional harm," Circuit Judge Ilana Rovner wrote for the court.

"Demonstrable emotional harm. Give me a break.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

.

It will turn around.

Europe is OVER the tranny thing, and where they go, we go.

In the meantime, SANE people need to stay the hell away from the so-called teaching profession.

.

 

[1srelluc]

Flimsy religious grounds, good ruling.

That said it's a damn shame people, religious or not, even have to deal with that shit.....And that's exactly what it is too.

The new policy would be for all students to be referred to by last names and locker number.

That way if there were more than one Jones they would be called by Jones 271 to avoid confusion sorta like the Brit Army used to do.

 

[Kilroy2]

Refusing to use a name change because of religious beliefs? So really he just does not agree with transgender choice and somehow he will go to hell if he refuses to call them by their name change. Even worst because they will be in his class and it will distract him from teaching music. Willing to lose his job over this. Oh well that stairway to heaven is paved with perils. He could have just use "Hey you" and pointed to the student. Your blowing that trumpet to hard and move on to the drummer. "Hey you your beating it to hard".

 

[Augustine_]

School's transgender policy trumped teacher's religious rights, US court rules

An Indiana high school did not break the law by allegedly forcing a music teacher to quit after he refused on religious grounds to use transgender students' preferred names, a U.S. appeals court ruled on Friday. Forcing a teacher to quit over his refusal to use transgender students' preferred...

www.reuters.com

April 7 (Reuters) - An Indiana high school did not break the law by allegedly forcing a music teacher to quit after he refused on religious grounds to use transgender students' preferred names, a U.S. appeals court ruled on Friday.

The rights of the teacher, John Kluge, to exercise his religious beliefs were outweighed by the potential disruption that his conduct could have on the learning environment at Brownsburg High School in the Indianapolis suburbs, the Chicago-based 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said.

As a teacher, I have very mixed feelings about this.

On the one hand, I believe employers should be able to expect employees to comply with policies. On the other hand, a public school is not a private business in which the owner has property rights to conduct business as he sees fit. On yet other hands, when students perceive that a teacher disrespects them, they are not at all likely to respect the teacher and that can lead to disruptions, that can spill over into other classes and affect the learning of others. But, I hate to see a person lose their job for not going along with this latest fad, and for speaking the truth, i.e. using a student's legal name and true pronouns. Yet, many students ask to be called by nicknames, and I've never met a student who would insist on calling Eddie "Edward," if it annoyed him.


Here's where the school loses me and I fall on the side of the teacher:

The school initially allowed Kluge to call students by their last names but reneged after receiving complaints from students and faculty, according to court filings. He said he resigned in 2018 after he was told he would be fired.

Yeah no. The school and the teacher had reached a perfectly reasonable compromise. Firing him was way out of line. If he were going out of his way to call a student who had named himself "Joan," by the former name of "John," and making a point of saying "John," at every opportunity that's one thing. But calling the student "Smith" should have satisfied everyone.

But the 7th circuit disagreed.


Federal law only requires employers to accommodate workers' religious beliefs if it would not cause them an undue hardship.

Kluge in his lawsuit argued that allowing him to call students by their last names would not create a burden for the school.

The 7th Circuit on Friday disagreed, upholding an Indiana federal judge's ruling that dismissed the case.

"Kluge's last-names-only practice stigmatized the transgender students and caused them demonstrable emotional harm," Circuit Judge Ilana Rovner wrote for the court.

"Demonstrable emotional harm. Give me a break.

Making a school a dangerous place for a student seems like a perfectly fine reason to me to fire an asshole

 

[bodecea]

School's transgender policy trumped teacher's religious rights, US court rules

An Indiana high school did not break the law by allegedly forcing a music teacher to quit after he refused on religious grounds to use transgender students' preferred names, a U.S. appeals court ruled on Friday. Forcing a teacher to quit over his refusal to use transgender students' preferred...

www.reuters.com

April 7 (Reuters) - An Indiana high school did not break the law by allegedly forcing a music teacher to quit after he refused on religious grounds to use transgender students' preferred names, a U.S. appeals court ruled on Friday.

The rights of the teacher, John Kluge, to exercise his religious beliefs were outweighed by the potential disruption that his conduct could have on the learning environment at Brownsburg High School in the Indianapolis suburbs, the Chicago-based 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said.

As a teacher, I have very mixed feelings about this.

On the one hand, I believe employers should be able to expect employees to comply with policies. On the other hand, a public school is not a private business in which the owner has property rights to conduct business as he sees fit. On yet other hands, when students perceive that a teacher disrespects them, they are not at all likely to respect the teacher and that can lead to disruptions, that can spill over into other classes and affect the learning of others. But, I hate to see a person lose their job for not going along with this latest fad, and for speaking the truth, i.e. using a student's legal name and true pronouns. Yet, many students ask to be called by nicknames, and I've never met a student who would insist on calling Eddie "Edward," if it annoyed him.


Here's where the school loses me and I fall on the side of the teacher:

The school initially allowed Kluge to call students by their last names but reneged after receiving complaints from students and faculty, according to court filings. He said he resigned in 2018 after he was told he would be fired.

Yeah no. The school and the teacher had reached a perfectly reasonable compromise. Firing him was way out of line. If he were going out of his way to call a student who had named himself "Joan," by the former name of "John," and making a point of saying "John," at every opportunity that's one thing. But calling the student "Smith" should have satisfied everyone.

But the 7th circuit disagreed.


Federal law only requires employers to accommodate workers' religious beliefs if it would not cause them an undue hardship.

Kluge in his lawsuit argued that allowing him to call students by their last names would not create a burden for the school.

The 7th Circuit on Friday disagreed, upholding an Indiana federal judge's ruling that dismissed the case.

"Kluge's last-names-only practice stigmatized the transgender students and caused them demonstrable emotional harm," Circuit Judge Ilana Rovner wrote for the court.

"Demonstrable emotional harm. Give me a break.

He was using his religion as an excuse for being a bully...like many so-called "religious" people do.

 

[Augustine_]

He was using his religion as an excuse for being a bully...like many so-called "religious" people do.

That's half the fun that comes with participating in religion

 

[Concerned American]

Refusing to use a name change because of religious beliefs? So really he just does not agree with transgender choice and somehow he will go to hell if he refuses to call them by their name change. Even worst because they will be in his class and it will distract him from teaching music. Willing to lose his job over this. Oh well that stairway to heaven is paved with perils. He could have just use "Hey you" and pointed to the student. Your blowing that trumpet to hard and move on to the drummer. "Hey you your beating it to hard".

Last names are not gender specific. Next?

 

[White 6]

School's transgender policy trumped teacher's religious rights, US court rules

An Indiana high school did not break the law by allegedly forcing a music teacher to quit after he refused on religious grounds to use transgender students' preferred names, a U.S. appeals court ruled on Friday. Forcing a teacher to quit over his refusal to use transgender students' preferred...

www.reuters.com

April 7 (Reuters) - An Indiana high school did not break the law by allegedly forcing a music teacher to quit after he refused on religious grounds to use transgender students' preferred names, a U.S. appeals court ruled on Friday.

The rights of the teacher, John Kluge, to exercise his religious beliefs were outweighed by the potential disruption that his conduct could have on the learning environment at Brownsburg High School in the Indianapolis suburbs, the Chicago-based 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said.

As a teacher, I have very mixed feelings about this.

On the one hand, I believe employers should be able to expect employees to comply with policies. On the other hand, a public school is not a private business in which the owner has property rights to conduct business as he sees fit. On yet other hands, when students perceive that a teacher disrespects them, they are not at all likely to respect the teacher and that can lead to disruptions, that can spill over into other classes and affect the learning of others. But, I hate to see a person lose their job for not going along with this latest fad, and for speaking the truth, i.e. using a student's legal name and true pronouns. Yet, many students ask to be called by nicknames, and I've never met a student who would insist on calling Eddie "Edward," if it annoyed him.


Here's where the school loses me and I fall on the side of the teacher:

The school initially allowed Kluge to call students by their last names but reneged after receiving complaints from students and faculty, according to court filings. He said he resigned in 2018 after he was told he would be fired.

Yeah no. The school and the teacher had reached a perfectly reasonable compromise. Firing him was way out of line. If he were going out of his way to call a student who had named himself "Joan," by the former name of "John," and making a point of saying "John," at every opportunity that's one thing. But calling the student "Smith" should have satisfied everyone.

But the 7th circuit disagreed.


Federal law only requires employers to accommodate workers' religious beliefs if it would not cause them an undue hardship.

Kluge in his lawsuit argued that allowing him to call students by their last names would not create a burden for the school.

The 7th Circuit on Friday disagreed, upholding an Indiana federal judge's ruling that dismissed the case.

"Kluge's last-names-only practice stigmatized the transgender students and caused them demonstrable emotional harm," Circuit Judge Ilana Rovner wrote for the court.

"Demonstrable emotional harm. Give me a break.

7th Circuit has 6 Republican and 2 Democrat judges. One of the Republican judges was appointed by Trump. It is often considered a conservative circuit. This did not seem like a conservative ruling, but it is now precedent in 7th circuit.

 

[Kilroy2]

Last names are not gender specific. Next?

Do you get excited with making an irrelevant point or is your point just to be irrelevant ?

 

[Concerned American]

Do you get excited with making an irrelevant point or is your point just to be irrelevant ?

Apparently you did not read the source of the OP. You're dismissed.

 

[Cougarbear]

School's transgender policy trumped teacher's religious rights, US court rules

An Indiana high school did not break the law by allegedly forcing a music teacher to quit after he refused on religious grounds to use transgender students' preferred names, a U.S. appeals court ruled on Friday. Forcing a teacher to quit over his refusal to use transgender students' preferred...

www.reuters.com

April 7 (Reuters) - An Indiana high school did not break the law by allegedly forcing a music teacher to quit after he refused on religious grounds to use transgender students' preferred names, a U.S. appeals court ruled on Friday.

The rights of the teacher, John Kluge, to exercise his religious beliefs were outweighed by the potential disruption that his conduct could have on the learning environment at Brownsburg High School in the Indianapolis suburbs, the Chicago-based 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said.

As a teacher, I have very mixed feelings about this.

On the one hand, I believe employers should be able to expect employees to comply with policies. On the other hand, a public school is not a private business in which the owner has property rights to conduct business as he sees fit. On yet other hands, when students perceive that a teacher disrespects them, they are not at all likely to respect the teacher and that can lead to disruptions, that can spill over into other classes and affect the learning of others. But, I hate to see a person lose their job for not going along with this latest fad, and for speaking the truth, i.e. using a student's legal name and true pronouns. Yet, many students ask to be called by nicknames, and I've never met a student who would insist on calling Eddie "Edward," if it annoyed him.


Here's where the school loses me and I fall on the side of the teacher:

The school initially allowed Kluge to call students by their last names but reneged after receiving complaints from students and faculty, according to court filings. He said he resigned in 2018 after he was told he would be fired.

Yeah no. The school and the teacher had reached a perfectly reasonable compromise. Firing him was way out of line. If he were going out of his way to call a student who had named himself "Joan," by the former name of "John," and making a point of saying "John," at every opportunity that's one thing. But calling the student "Smith" should have satisfied everyone.

But the 7th circuit disagreed.


Federal law only requires employers to accommodate workers' religious beliefs if it would not cause them an undue hardship.

Kluge in his lawsuit argued that allowing him to call students by their last names would not create a burden for the school.

The 7th Circuit on Friday disagreed, upholding an Indiana federal judge's ruling that dismissed the case.

"Kluge's last-names-only practice stigmatized the transgender students and caused them demonstrable emotional harm," Circuit Judge Ilana Rovner wrote for the court.

"Demonstrable emotional harm. Give me a break.

My teachers used my last name when they were going send me to the office for misbehaving. I see no connection between calling a student by their last name and causing someone emotional harm. Wokism is destroying our nations.