Sen. Reid on Cattle Battle: "It's not over"

[Vigilante]

Sure thing.

I already disproved "Claim #1" about ENN energy. "Claim #2" is true on it's face, yet has nothing to do with the Bundy situation. "Claim #3" has a grain of truth to it - NGOs have in fact been complaining about Bundy's cattle in reference to the Dry Lake solar project - but as is fairly clear by their name, non-governmental organizations aren't the BLM, and don't speak for them.

The supposedly deleted page is nothing more than a memo detailing various PR reasons why the order for removal was issued - but that doesn't change the fact that the actual reason they were removed was because of a court order, due to his non-payment of fees.

I don't think you did disclaim #1 but I'd have to go back through this mess and check, unless you have the post#! #2 has everything to do with Bundy as he was appointed just 2 days before the shit hit the fan.
The removed page states clearly, and name Bundy for the purpose stated.

I believe you've failed to prove 2 out of 3 points, but still will withhold judgment on #1 until you can provide post#.

The Chinese solar project by ENN energy was going to be in Laughlin, NV - which is 250 miles from where Bundy's cattle were grazing - and it's entirely a moot point anyway, because that project was cancelled last year.

Nevada Solar Factory Canceled | Photovoltaic (PV) | ReWire | KCET

A project that would have included a solar power station and a million-square-foot solar panel factory a few miles from the California state line won't be built, its backers announced last month. The $5 billion, Chinese-backed ENN Mojave Energy project at the southernmost corner of Nevada couldn't find utilities that wanted to buy its power, either in Nevada or across the line in California.

As to Claim #3, you should take a look at the actual page from the BLM website, rather than listen to what some idiot with a YouTube channel has to say about it. Of course it mentioned Bundy - it was a memo about the removal of his cattle. But nowhere in that memo does the BLM say anything about the solar project (an entirely different solar project from the ENN one that has already been built about 75 miles from where Bundy's cattle were) being the reason that Bundy's cattle were removed.

Well, Jon has it differently, and I tend to believe him, over you, but I'm biased!

in the solar deal

the plant was never to be built on the gold butte area

the plan was to use Gold Butte as an offset area for the damage

the solar plant was to cause in the area that it is to be built in

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medial...dat/TN_444.pdf

And no one says that the project, once rid of Bundy, wouldn't be reinstated, as it probably would be with so much money at stake, and then we have all those B. Insane Regime SOLAR SUBSIDIES available!!!

 

[Vigilante]

Sure thing.

I already disproved "Claim #1" about ENN energy. "Claim #2" is true on it's face, yet has nothing to do with the Bundy situation. "Claim #3" has a grain of truth to it - NGOs have in fact been complaining about Bundy's cattle in reference to the Dry Lake solar project - but as is fairly clear by their name, non-governmental organizations aren't the BLM, and don't speak for them.

The supposedly deleted page is nothing more than a memo detailing various PR reasons why the order for removal was issued - but that doesn't change the fact that the actual reason they were removed was because of a court order, due to his non-payment of fees.

I don't think you did disclaim #1 but I'd have to go back through this mess and check, unless you have the post#! #2 has everything to do with Bundy as he was appointed just 2 days before the shit hit the fan.
The removed page states clearly, and name Bundy for the purpose stated.

I believe you've failed to prove 2 out of 3 points, but still will withhold judgment on #1 until you can provide post#.

The Chinese solar project by ENN energy was going to be in Laughlin, NV - which is 250 miles from where Bundy's cattle were grazing - and it's entirely a moot point anyway, because that project was cancelled last year.

Nevada Solar Factory Canceled | Photovoltaic (PV) | ReWire | KCET

A project that would have included a solar power station and a million-square-foot solar panel factory a few miles from the California state line won't be built, its backers announced last month. The $5 billion, Chinese-backed ENN Mojave Energy project at the southernmost corner of Nevada couldn't find utilities that wanted to buy its power, either in Nevada or across the line in California.

As to Claim #3, you should take a look at the actual page from the BLM website, rather than listen to what some idiot with a YouTube channel has to say about it. Of course it mentioned Bundy - it was a memo about the removal of his cattle. But nowhere in that memo does the BLM say anything about the solar project (an entirely different solar project from the ENN one that has already been built about 75 miles from where Bundy's cattle were) being the reason that Bundy's cattle were removed.

But the saved screen shot, that has been cleansed off the internet does!

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I don't think you did disclaim #1 but I'd have to go back through this mess and check, unless you have the post#! #2 has everything to do with Bundy as he was appointed just 2 days before the shit hit the fan.
The removed page states clearly, and name Bundy for the purpose stated.

I believe you've failed to prove 2 out of 3 points, but still will withhold judgment on #1 until you can provide post#.

The Chinese solar project by ENN energy was going to be in Laughlin, NV - which is 250 miles from where Bundy's cattle were grazing - and it's entirely a moot point anyway, because that project was cancelled last year.

Nevada Solar Factory Canceled | Photovoltaic (PV) | ReWire | KCET

A project that would have included a solar power station and a million-square-foot solar panel factory a few miles from the California state line won't be built, its backers announced last month. The $5 billion, Chinese-backed ENN Mojave Energy project at the southernmost corner of Nevada couldn't find utilities that wanted to buy its power, either in Nevada or across the line in California.

As to Claim #3, you should take a look at the actual page from the BLM website, rather than listen to what some idiot with a YouTube channel has to say about it. Of course it mentioned Bundy - it was a memo about the removal of his cattle. But nowhere in that memo does the BLM say anything about the solar project (an entirely different solar project from the ENN one that has already been built about 75 miles from where Bundy's cattle were) being the reason that Bundy's cattle were removed.

But the saved screen shot, that has been cleansed off the internet does!

No, it doesn't. Read it.

This is what it says:

Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle"

The BLM is relaying concerns that they've received from NGOs - just like they relay concerns from locals about it as well:

Residents of the communities of Bunkersville and Mesquite have complained about the impact of cattle on city facilities.

Neither the NGOs, nor the residents of Bunkersville are the reason the cattle were removed. The reason was the court order.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I don't think you did disclaim #1 but I'd have to go back through this mess and check, unless you have the post#! #2 has everything to do with Bundy as he was appointed just 2 days before the shit hit the fan.
The removed page states clearly, and name Bundy for the purpose stated.

I believe you've failed to prove 2 out of 3 points, but still will withhold judgment on #1 until you can provide post#.

The Chinese solar project by ENN energy was going to be in Laughlin, NV - which is 250 miles from where Bundy's cattle were grazing - and it's entirely a moot point anyway, because that project was cancelled last year.

Nevada Solar Factory Canceled | Photovoltaic (PV) | ReWire | KCET

A project that would have included a solar power station and a million-square-foot solar panel factory a few miles from the California state line won't be built, its backers announced last month. The $5 billion, Chinese-backed ENN Mojave Energy project at the southernmost corner of Nevada couldn't find utilities that wanted to buy its power, either in Nevada or across the line in California.

As to Claim #3, you should take a look at the actual page from the BLM website, rather than listen to what some idiot with a YouTube channel has to say about it. Of course it mentioned Bundy - it was a memo about the removal of his cattle. But nowhere in that memo does the BLM say anything about the solar project (an entirely different solar project from the ENN one that has already been built about 75 miles from where Bundy's cattle were) being the reason that Bundy's cattle were removed.

Well, Jon has it differently, and I tend to believe him, over you, but I'm biased!

in the solar deal

the plant was never to be built on the gold butte area

the plan was to use Gold Butte as an offset area for the damage

the solar plant was to cause in the area that it is to be built in

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medial...dat/TN_444.pdf

And no one says that the project, once rid of Bundy, wouldn't be reinstated, as it probably would be with so much money at stake, and then we have all those B. Insane Regime SOLAR SUBSIDIES available!!!

The problem is that you're confusing two separate Solar plants - one that actually exists, and one that doesn't.

 

[Vigilante]

The Chinese solar project by ENN energy was going to be in Laughlin, NV - which is 250 miles from where Bundy's cattle were grazing - and it's entirely a moot point anyway, because that project was cancelled last year.

Nevada Solar Factory Canceled | Photovoltaic (PV) | ReWire | KCET

As to Claim #3, you should take a look at the actual page from the BLM website, rather than listen to what some idiot with a YouTube channel has to say about it. Of course it mentioned Bundy - it was a memo about the removal of his cattle. But nowhere in that memo does the BLM say anything about the solar project (an entirely different solar project from the ENN one that has already been built about 75 miles from where Bundy's cattle were) being the reason that Bundy's cattle were removed.

But the saved screen shot, that has been cleansed off the internet does!

No, it doesn't. Read it.

This is what it says:

Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle"

The BLM is relaying concerns that they've received from NGOs - just like they relay concerns from locals about it as well:

Residents of the communities of Bunkersville and Mesquite have complained about the impact of cattle on city facilities.

Neither the NGOs, nor the residents of Bunkersville are the reason the cattle were removed. The reason was the court order.

Since Bundy was the only cattle , it certainly refers to it. Both the NGO's and the communities complaints have a bearing on the court order as they were brought up in court. As stated, their cancellation of the project doesn't mean it can't be reinstated. And the appointment of Reid's MAN 2 days before this happened, is a coincidence?

 

[Vigilante]

Anyone ever heard of the Taylor Grazing Act?
It protects prior grazing rights and is the Law Bundy is standing on.

http://www.blm.gov/wy/st/en/field_of.../taylor.1.html

 

[jon_berzerk]

I don't think you did disclaim #1 but I'd have to go back through this mess and check, unless you have the post#! #2 has everything to do with Bundy as he was appointed just 2 days before the shit hit the fan.
The removed page states clearly, and name Bundy for the purpose stated.

I believe you've failed to prove 2 out of 3 points, but still will withhold judgment on #1 until you can provide post#.

The Chinese solar project by ENN energy was going to be in Laughlin, NV - which is 250 miles from where Bundy's cattle were grazing - and it's entirely a moot point anyway, because that project was cancelled last year.

Nevada Solar Factory Canceled | Photovoltaic (PV) | ReWire | KCET

A project that would have included a solar power station and a million-square-foot solar panel factory a few miles from the California state line won't be built, its backers announced last month. The $5 billion, Chinese-backed ENN Mojave Energy project at the southernmost corner of Nevada couldn't find utilities that wanted to buy its power, either in Nevada or across the line in California.

As to Claim #3, you should take a look at the actual page from the BLM website, rather than listen to what some idiot with a YouTube channel has to say about it. Of course it mentioned Bundy - it was a memo about the removal of his cattle. But nowhere in that memo does the BLM say anything about the solar project (an entirely different solar project from the ENN one that has already been built about 75 miles from where Bundy's cattle were) being the reason that Bundy's cattle were removed.

Well, Jon has it differently, and I tend to believe him, over you, but I'm biased!

in the solar deal

the plant was never to be built on the gold butte area

the plan was to use Gold Butte as an offset area for the damage

the solar plant was to cause in the area that it is to be built in

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medial...dat/TN_444.pdf

And no one says that the project, once rid of Bundy, wouldn't be reinstated, as it probably would be with so much money at stake, and then we have all those B. Insane Regime SOLAR SUBSIDIES available!!!

certainly it is not off the table by any means

in order for the deal t go through

the cattle has to be off the land permanently

and it has to be set aside as a "federal conservation area"

which reid has tried to get through congress but without any luck

at this point

the text of the bill and any movement can be read here

Text - S.1054 - 113th Congress (2013-2014): Gold Butte National Conservation Area Act | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Anyone ever heard of the Taylor Grazing Act?
It protects prior grazing rights and is the Law Bundy is standing on.

http://www.blm.gov/wy/st/en/field_of.../taylor.1.html

The Taylor Grazing Act of 1934 was pre-empted by Federal Land Policy & Management Act of 1976.

 

[Vigilante]

Anyone ever heard of the Taylor Grazing Act?
It protects prior grazing rights and is the Law Bundy is standing on.

http://www.blm.gov/wy/st/en/field_of.../taylor.1.html

The Taylor Grazing Act of 1934 was pre-empted by Federal Land Policy & Management Act of 1976.

No grandfathering of persons already covered by the original act? Seems a bit draconian, if not!

 

[jon_berzerk]

Anyone ever heard of the Taylor Grazing Act?
It protects prior grazing rights and is the Law Bundy is standing on.

http://www.blm.gov/wy/st/en/field_of.../taylor.1.html

the main reason he stopped paying the grazing fees

is because BLM was not managing the land

they are supposed to maintain fencing

cattle gates and such and had continually failed to do so

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Anyone ever heard of the Taylor Grazing Act?
It protects prior grazing rights and is the Law Bundy is standing on.

http://www.blm.gov/wy/st/en/field_of.../taylor.1.html

the main reason he stopped paying the grazing fees

is because BLM was not managing the land

they are supposed to maintain fencing

cattle gates and such and had continually failed to do so

This is also incorrect.

Bundy was supposed to maintain fencing, not BLM. (He also "continually failed to do so", which is why his cattle were spread over 3 times the land he had ever had permits for).

 

[Vigilante]

Anyone ever heard of the Taylor Grazing Act?
It protects prior grazing rights and is the Law Bundy is standing on.

http://www.blm.gov/wy/st/en/field_of.../taylor.1.html

the main reason he stopped paying the grazing fees

is because BLM was not managing the land

they are supposed to maintain fencing

cattle gates and such and had continually failed to do so

This is also incorrect.

Bundy was supposed to maintain fencing, not BLM. (He also "continually failed to do so", which is why his cattle were spread over 3 times the land he had ever had permits for).

Since the land is supposed to be under the control of the BLM, why was Bundy required to maintain the fencing? BLM has control over land at the Mexican border and maintains fencing there. The real question here is who is to be master! The gov't simply won't allow any defectors from it's edicts.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

the main reason he stopped paying the grazing fees

is because BLM was not managing the land

they are supposed to maintain fencing

cattle gates and such and had continually failed to do so

This is also incorrect.

Bundy was supposed to maintain fencing, not BLM. (He also "continually failed to do so", which is why his cattle were spread over 3 times the land he had ever had permits for).

Since the land is supposed to be under the control of the BLM, why was Bundy required to maintain the fencing? BLM has control over land at the Mexican border and maintains fencing there. The real question here is who is to be master! The gov't simply won't allow any defectors from it's edicts.

It's part of the grazing lease. Don't ask me why, I didn't write it.

The border fence, and for that matter the border itself, is not "maintained" by BLM, it's maintained by ICE.

 

[Vigilante]

This is also incorrect.

Bundy was supposed to maintain fencing, not BLM. (He also "continually failed to do so", which is why his cattle were spread over 3 times the land he had ever had permits for).

Since the land is supposed to be under the control of the BLM, why was Bundy required to maintain the fencing? BLM has control over land at the Mexican border and maintains fencing there. The real question here is who is to be master! The gov't simply won't allow any defectors from it's edicts.

It's part of the grazing lease. Don't ask me why, I didn't write it.

The border fence, and for that matter the border itself, is not "maintained" by BLM, it's maintained by ICE.

Without seeing and reading the grazing lease, I'd have my doubts! As to ICE maintaining the border this seems to disagree...

Border Coordination Becomes a Major Emphasis in the 1980s

 

[jon_berzerk]

Anyone ever heard of the Taylor Grazing Act?
It protects prior grazing rights and is the Law Bundy is standing on.

http://www.blm.gov/wy/st/en/field_of.../taylor.1.html

the main reason he stopped paying the grazing fees

is because BLM was not managing the land

they are supposed to maintain fencing

cattle gates and such and had continually failed to do so

This is also incorrect.

Bundy was supposed to maintain fencing, not BLM. (He also "continually failed to do so", which is why his cattle were spread over 3 times the land he had ever had permits for).

you are incorrect

it is part of BLM responsibility to maintain fencing

that is why before they left they re posted

the cattle gates along the highway

Habitat Conservation

 

[jon_berzerk]

the main reason he stopped paying the grazing fees

is because BLM was not managing the land

they are supposed to maintain fencing

cattle gates and such and had continually failed to do so

This is also incorrect.

Bundy was supposed to maintain fencing, not BLM. (He also "continually failed to do so", which is why his cattle were spread over 3 times the land he had ever had permits for).

Since the land is supposed to be under the control of the BLM, why was Bundy required to maintain the fencing? BLM has control over land at the Mexican border and maintains fencing there. The real question here is who is to be master! The gov't simply won't allow any defectors from it's edicts.

Since the land is supposed to be under the control of the BLM, why was Bundy required to maintain the fencing?

he is not responsible for it

at times the BLM has contracted with ranchers to provide the labor

but overall it is a BLM responsibility for fencing and noxious weed removal

and such

 

[theDoctorisIn]

This is also incorrect.

Bundy was supposed to maintain fencing, not BLM. (He also "continually failed to do so", which is why his cattle were spread over 3 times the land he had ever had permits for).

Since the land is supposed to be under the control of the BLM, why was Bundy required to maintain the fencing? BLM has control over land at the Mexican border and maintains fencing there. The real question here is who is to be master! The gov't simply won't allow any defectors from it's edicts.

Since the land is supposed to be under the control of the BLM, why was Bundy required to maintain the fencing?

he is not responsible for it

at times the BLM has contracted with ranchers to provide the labor

but overall it is a BLM responsibility for fencing and noxious weed removal

and such

Link? Everything I've read says the complete opposite.

 

[Vigilante]

Since the land is supposed to be under the control of the BLM, why was Bundy required to maintain the fencing? BLM has control over land at the Mexican border and maintains fencing there. The real question here is who is to be master! The gov't simply won't allow any defectors from it's edicts.

Since the land is supposed to be under the control of the BLM, why was Bundy required to maintain the fencing?

he is not responsible for it

at times the BLM has contracted with ranchers to provide the labor

but overall it is a BLM responsibility for fencing and noxious weed removal

and such

Link? Everything I've read says the complete opposite.

I did give you a link, from the BLM website!

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Since the land is supposed to be under the control of the BLM, why was Bundy required to maintain the fencing?

he is not responsible for it

at times the BLM has contracted with ranchers to provide the labor

but overall it is a BLM responsibility for fencing and noxious weed removal

and such

Link? Everything I've read says the complete opposite.

I did give you a link, from the BLM website!

A link that says the BLM are responsible for maintaining fencing on BLM land for grazing?

Where did you post that?

 

[Vigilante]

Link? Everything I've read says the complete opposite.

I did give you a link, from the BLM website!

A link that says the BLM are responsible for maintaining fencing on BLM land for grazing?

Where did you post that?

No, it was about fencing at the border which the BLM maintains.