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Perhaps the issue is how angry folks do get about communism.
Stalin was a monster...
We had troops fighting against his side as early as the Russian Revolution so naturally he distrusted the west.
If you support the Red Scare, does that mean you think the Communist Party should be banned from the U.S.? A socialist party?
I understand why you would wish to change the focus of the discussion, as your side is being thoroughly thrashed.
I don't care to; I have a specific purpose with this OP, and, based on how poorly your side is doing, I seems pretty clear that I've won.
My premise is that Senator Joseph McCarthy performed the role he set out for himself, i.e., he revealed how poor a job the Roosevelt administration did in preventing spies, paid agents and supporters of virulent communists/Soviet from controlling and dictating government policy and reporting to Stalin.
FDR actually promoted same when they were revealed.
He acted against said individuals in the United States government.
His accuracy has been proven over time.
The smears and libels have been against the Senator, not by him.
Now...if you wish to begin a thread called "If you support the Red Scare,...."
...go for it.
As an aside, your comment "so naturally he (Stalin) distrusted the west." proves beyond doubt that you have been infected, are biased, and
....are the perfect example of a dupe.
I suggest you read "Dupes: How America's Adversaries Have Manipulated Progressives for a Century" [Hardcover]
Paul Kengor (Author)
I feel certain that you'll find your name in there.....
McCarthy was a drunk and died of liver disease at 48.
What this debate and the attempts by some self proclaiming republicans to apologise for Tail gunner Joe is REALLY showing us is how much the GOP has changed since the mid 50s.
The GOP quite rightly and much to its credit, sanctioned this drunken bully.
But todays radically ignorant cons don't have a clue what that GOP was really all about.
That GOP truly was a nationalist movement that loved this nation.
Not at all like today's typical GOPer
"if"??
Surely you don't believe he did so......do you?
You do?
Well have a very simple test to determine if your view has been programmed into you based on a Left-wing ideology....or if you can be counted on to absorb the truth, and incorporate same into your thinking.
Here is the test: name a bunch of "innocents" he 'ran over."
There are those who are prepared to receive wisdom and those who are not.
Which are you?
The names of said innocents are......
Owen Lattimore
Born and raised in Shanghai, Owen Lattimore was the former editor for the Institute of Pacific Relations Journal. He was the United States government liaison to Chiang Kai-Shek before the Nationalists' defeat in their civil war with China. From 1938 to 1950, Lattimore was directed the Page School of International Relations a Johns Hopkins University.
Lattimore's outspokenness, liberal views and acquaintance with Chiang Kai-Shek made him an easy target for McCarthy's anti-Communist campaigns. In 1950, McCarthy accused Lattimore of being the number one spy for the Soviets. After facing 12 days of intense questioning by McCarthy and his committee, Lattimore was charged with seven counts of perjury. Even though these charges were dismissed three years later, Lattimore's reputation and credibility among people was destroyed. Even after his death in 1989, many still questioned his loyalty to his country.
Val Lorwin
Val Lorwin was a State Department employee who had served in the labor section. When Joe McCarthy first brandished his list of alleged Communists, Lorwin was number 54 on the list. At this time, Lorwin was working as a labor economist in Paris.
Lorwin landed on the government's radar when his old friend Harold Metz testified that Lorwin had shown him a red card for the Communist Party and had hosted some "strange-looking people" at his house. Metz had actually made a mistake. Lorwin was later cleared in 1952 by the Loyalty Board when he testified that the red card was for the Socialist Party and the "strange-looking people" were Socialists.
Despite this, Lorwin was still indicted before the State Department for perjury. It wasn't until two years later did the Assistant Attorney General dismissed these charges. By then, Lorwin's reputation was tainted and Lorwin even said he felt like "several years of my own and my wife's life" were taken away. He even wrote, "I was thankful that we have no children".
This is from post #44:
1. Liberals name Owen Lattimore as a McCarthy victim. In actuality, McCarthy did not name Lattimore, but only referred to a Mr. X. In his speeches, McCarthy referred to Lattimore as "Mr X... the top Russian spy... the key man in a Russian espionage ring." On 26th March, 1950, Pearson named Lattimore as McCarthy's Mr. X. Drew Pearson : Biography
2. Lattimore was found to be a conscious, articulate instrument of the Soviet conspiracy by a unanimous Senate committee (William F. Buckley and Brent Bozell, McCarty and His Enemies, p. 274, quoting the Congressional Record)
As far as his life being ruined, When Lattimore was indicted, Johns Hopkins put him on leave with pay. He continued to have use of his office and secretary but taught no classes. Owen Lattimore and the "Loss" of China "d0e11129"
He also lectured at Harvard.
Sound 'ruined' to you?
3. Senator Tydings as with so many cases in his alleged "investigation" of McCarthy's charges did a real whitewash on Lattimore, proclaiming, "There is nothing in that file to show that you were a Communist or ever had been a Communist, or that you were in any way connected with any espionage information or charges, so that the FBI file puts you completely, up to this moment, in the clear."
The ever-intrepid Evans (M. Stanton Evans, author of Blacklisted by History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy and his fight Against America's Enemies,) has produced a memo from Lou Nichols of the FBI saying he couldn't understand what had come over Tydings that the Maryland Democrat knew very well that Director Hoover had said that if he had been on the Loyalty Board, he would have questioned any attempt to clear Lattimore, and that he regarded the IPR icon as a security risk and would never have hired him at the Bureau.
Lattimore had conferred (during the Hitler-Stalin pact) with the Soviet ambassador about Lattimore's upcoming assignment as President Roosevelt's adviser to Chiang-Kai-Shek then trying to fend off the Communist revolution in his country.
Credible testimony revealed "five episodes" wherein Lattimore within the Politburo of the Communist Party "participated as a full participant in the conspiracy."
A former brigadier-general in the Soviet military intelligence testified to having been told that "Lattimore was one of our men."
On page 218 of the McCarran committee's voluminous report of its year-long investigation, this bottom line: "[T]he subcommittee can come to no other conclusion but that Lattimore was for some time beginning in the 1930s a conscious, articulate instrument of the Soviet conspiracy."
The documented truth about the McCarthy investigations
4. Possibly you don't realize that the China we see today, Communist China, is the result of Lattimore and Institute of Public Relations advising in favor of Mao and agaist Chaing KaiShek.
'Senator Joseph McCarthy of Wisconsin repeatedly criticized IPR and its former chairman Philip Jessup. McCarthy observed that Frederick V. Field, T.A. Bisson, and Owen Lattimore were active in IPR and claimed that they had worked to turn American China policy in favor of the Communist Party of China.'
Institute of Pacific Relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
McCarthy was a drunk and died of liver disease at 48.
Owen Lattimore
Born and raised in Shanghai, Owen Lattimore was the former editor for the Institute of Pacific Relations Journal. He was the United States government liaison to Chiang Kai-Shek before the Nationalists' defeat in their civil war with China. From 1938 to 1950, Lattimore was directed the Page School of International Relations a Johns Hopkins University.
Lattimore's outspokenness, liberal views and acquaintance with Chiang Kai-Shek made him an easy target for McCarthy's anti-Communist campaigns. In 1950, McCarthy accused Lattimore of being the number one spy for the Soviets. After facing 12 days of intense questioning by McCarthy and his committee, Lattimore was charged with seven counts of perjury. Even though these charges were dismissed three years later, Lattimore's reputation and credibility among people was destroyed. Even after his death in 1989, many still questioned his loyalty to his country.
Val Lorwin
Val Lorwin was a State Department employee who had served in the labor section. When Joe McCarthy first brandished his list of alleged Communists, Lorwin was number 54 on the list. At this time, Lorwin was working as a labor economist in Paris.
Lorwin landed on the government's radar when his old friend Harold Metz testified that Lorwin had shown him a red card for the Communist Party and had hosted some "strange-looking people" at his house. Metz had actually made a mistake. Lorwin was later cleared in 1952 by the Loyalty Board when he testified that the red card was for the Socialist Party and the "strange-looking people" were Socialists.
Despite this, Lorwin was still indicted before the State Department for perjury. It wasn't until two years later did the Assistant Attorney General dismissed these charges. By then, Lorwin's reputation was tainted and Lorwin even said he felt like "several years of my own and my wife's life" were taken away. He even wrote, "I was thankful that we have no children".
This is from post #44:
1. Liberals name Owen Lattimore as a McCarthy victim. In actuality, McCarthy did not name Lattimore, but only referred to a Mr. X. In his speeches, McCarthy referred to Lattimore as "Mr X... the top Russian spy... the key man in a Russian espionage ring." On 26th March, 1950, Pearson named Lattimore as McCarthy's Mr. X. Drew Pearson : Biography
2. Lattimore was found to be a conscious, articulate instrument of the Soviet conspiracy by a unanimous Senate committee (William F. Buckley and Brent Bozell, McCarty and His Enemies, p. 274, quoting the Congressional Record)
As far as his life being ruined, When Lattimore was indicted, Johns Hopkins put him on leave with pay. He continued to have use of his office and secretary but taught no classes. Owen Lattimore and the "Loss" of China "d0e11129"
He also lectured at Harvard.
Sound 'ruined' to you?
3. Senator Tydings as with so many cases in his alleged "investigation" of McCarthy's charges did a real whitewash on Lattimore, proclaiming, "There is nothing in that file to show that you were a Communist or ever had been a Communist, or that you were in any way connected with any espionage information or charges, so that the FBI file puts you completely, up to this moment, in the clear."
The ever-intrepid Evans (M. Stanton Evans, author of Blacklisted by History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy and his fight Against America's Enemies,) has produced a memo from Lou Nichols of the FBI saying he couldn't understand what had come over Tydings that the Maryland Democrat knew very well that Director Hoover had said that if he had been on the Loyalty Board, he would have questioned any attempt to clear Lattimore, and that he regarded the IPR icon as a security risk and would never have hired him at the Bureau.
Lattimore had conferred (during the Hitler-Stalin pact) with the Soviet ambassador about Lattimore's upcoming assignment as President Roosevelt's adviser to Chiang-Kai-Shek then trying to fend off the Communist revolution in his country.
Credible testimony revealed "five episodes" wherein Lattimore within the Politburo of the Communist Party "participated as a full participant in the conspiracy."
A former brigadier-general in the Soviet military intelligence testified to having been told that "Lattimore was one of our men."
On page 218 of the McCarran committee's voluminous report of its year-long investigation, this bottom line: "[T]he subcommittee can come to no other conclusion but that Lattimore was for some time beginning in the 1930s a conscious, articulate instrument of the Soviet conspiracy."
The documented truth about the McCarthy investigations
4. Possibly you don't realize that the China we see today, Communist China, is the result of Lattimore and Institute of Public Relations advising in favor of Mao and agaist Chaing KaiShek.
'Senator Joseph McCarthy of Wisconsin repeatedly criticized IPR and its former chairman Philip Jessup. McCarthy observed that Frederick V. Field, T.A. Bisson, and Owen Lattimore were active in IPR and claimed that they had worked to turn American China policy in favor of the Communist Party of China.'
Institute of Pacific Relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Totally unproven allegations that have been repeatedly contradicted by the facts. Apparently running over the innocents continues into the present and is the reason why we need to be on guard against revisionists of every stripe.
What this debate and the attempts by some self proclaiming republicans to apologise for Tail gunner Joe is REALLY showing us is how much the GOP has changed since the mid 50s.
The GOP quite rightly and much to its credit, sanctioned this drunken bully.
But todays radically ignorant cons don't have a clue what that GOP was really all about.
That GOP truly was a nationalist movement that loved this nation.
Not at all like today's typical GOPer
This is from post #44:
1. Liberals name Owen Lattimore as a McCarthy victim. In actuality, McCarthy did not name Lattimore, but only referred to a Mr. X. In his speeches, McCarthy referred to Lattimore as "Mr X... the top Russian spy... the key man in a Russian espionage ring." On 26th March, 1950, Pearson named Lattimore as McCarthy's Mr. X. Drew Pearson : Biography
2. Lattimore was found to be a conscious, articulate instrument of the Soviet conspiracy by a unanimous Senate committee (William F. Buckley and Brent Bozell, McCarty and His Enemies, p. 274, quoting the Congressional Record)
As far as his life being ruined, When Lattimore was indicted, Johns Hopkins put him on leave with pay. He continued to have use of his office and secretary but taught no classes. Owen Lattimore and the "Loss" of China "d0e11129"
He also lectured at Harvard.
Sound 'ruined' to you?
3. Senator Tydings as with so many cases in his alleged "investigation" of McCarthy's charges did a real whitewash on Lattimore, proclaiming, "There is nothing in that file to show that you were a Communist or ever had been a Communist, or that you were in any way connected with any espionage information or charges, so that the FBI file puts you completely, up to this moment, in the clear."
The ever-intrepid Evans (M. Stanton Evans, author of Blacklisted by History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy and his fight Against America's Enemies,) has produced a memo from Lou Nichols of the FBI saying he couldn't understand what had come over Tydings that the Maryland Democrat knew very well that Director Hoover had said that if he had been on the Loyalty Board, he would have questioned any attempt to clear Lattimore, and that he regarded the IPR icon as a security risk and would never have hired him at the Bureau.
Lattimore had conferred (during the Hitler-Stalin pact) with the Soviet ambassador about Lattimore's upcoming assignment as President Roosevelt's adviser to Chiang-Kai-Shek then trying to fend off the Communist revolution in his country.
Credible testimony revealed "five episodes" wherein Lattimore within the Politburo of the Communist Party "participated as a full participant in the conspiracy."
A former brigadier-general in the Soviet military intelligence testified to having been told that "Lattimore was one of our men."
On page 218 of the McCarran committee's voluminous report of its year-long investigation, this bottom line: "[T]he subcommittee can come to no other conclusion but that Lattimore was for some time beginning in the 1930s a conscious, articulate instrument of the Soviet conspiracy."
The documented truth about the McCarthy investigations
4. Possibly you don't realize that the China we see today, Communist China, is the result of Lattimore and Institute of Public Relations advising in favor of Mao and agaist Chaing KaiShek.
'Senator Joseph McCarthy of Wisconsin repeatedly criticized IPR and its former chairman Philip Jessup. McCarthy observed that Frederick V. Field, T.A. Bisson, and Owen Lattimore were active in IPR and claimed that they had worked to turn American China policy in favor of the Communist Party of China.'
Institute of Pacific Relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Totally unproven allegations that have been repeatedly contradicted by the facts. Apparently running over the innocents continues into the present and is the reason why we need to be on guard against revisionists of every stripe.
You are as burned as Edgar Winter on an Ecuadorian beach!
Yours is the kind of post one writes when confronted with a mountain of evidence....but has the fear of appearing to know nothing.
lush analytic framework smashing crescendo again, a fanatics ideology trumps his intellect
You know nothing.
And worse....in trying to hide the fact that you have been co-opted by Left-wing propaganda, you have been self-identified as both ignorant and dishonorable.
The half-dozen of you have yet to provide even one.....one!...." innocent run over" by the great Senator McCarthy.
Not one!!!
As a wise wag said:
"Not facts, nor data, nor experience, nor rational debate will convince Liberals."
Once the disease has infected you.....Liberalism.....there seems to be no recovery for the weak.
Totally unproven allegations that have been repeatedly contradicted by the facts. Apparently running over the innocents continues into the present and is the reason why we need to be on guard against revisionists of every stripe.
You are as burned as Edgar Winter on an Ecuadorian beach!
Yours is the kind of post one writes when confronted with a mountain of evidence....but has the fear of appearing to know nothing.
lush analytic framework smashing crescendo again, a fanatics ideology trumps his intellect
You know nothing.
And worse....in trying to hide the fact that you have been co-opted by Left-wing propaganda, you have been self-identified as both ignorant and dishonorable.
The half-dozen of you have yet to provide even one.....one!...." innocent run over" by the great Senator McCarthy.
Not one!!!
As a wise wag said:
"Not facts, nor data, nor experience, nor rational debate will convince Liberals."
Once the disease has infected you.....Liberalism.....there seems to be no recovery for the weak.
You're just spouting right wing propaganda. The facts prove otherwise, if you dared to check into what really happened and not cherry-pick your info.
McCarthy was a drunk and died of liver disease at 48.
Thank you for providing the "Cat In The Hat" level of analysis.
Keep up the good work.
The Left hasn't named a single "innocent " ruined by McCarty but they still haven't grasped the extent to which they've been manipulated
You are as burned as Edgar Winter on an Ecuadorian beach!
Yours is the kind of post one writes when confronted with a mountain of evidence....but has the fear of appearing to know nothing.
lush analytic framework smashing crescendo again, a fanatics ideology trumps his intellect
You know nothing.
And worse....in trying to hide the fact that you have been co-opted by Left-wing propaganda, you have been self-identified as both ignorant and dishonorable.
The half-dozen of you have yet to provide even one.....one!...." innocent run over" by the great Senator McCarthy.
Not one!!!
As a wise wag said:
"Not facts, nor data, nor experience, nor rational debate will convince Liberals."
Once the disease has infected you.....Liberalism.....there seems to be no recovery for the weak.
You're just spouting right wing propaganda. The facts prove otherwise, if you dared to check into what really happened and not cherry-pick your info.
Can you outline the facts for us oh great one? Just saying so means nothing, you must prove your position with FACTS. Do you have any or are you merely a propagandist or a dupe for the Left?
The Left hasn't named a single "innocent " ruined by McCarty but they still haven't grasped the extent to which they've been manipulated
The Left hasn't named a single "innocent " ruined by McCarty but they still haven't grasped the extent to which they've been manipulated
It doesn't matter if they were ruined or not, he falsely accused them with no evidence to back them up. You okay with that sort of thing?
The Left hasn't named a single "innocent " ruined by McCarty but they still haven't grasped the extent to which they've been manipulated
It doesn't matter if they were ruined or not, he falsely accused them with no evidence to back them up. You okay with that sort of thing?
The Left hasn't named a single "innocent " ruined by McCarty but they still haven't grasped the extent to which they've been manipulated
It doesn't matter if they were ruined or not, he falsely accused them with no evidence to back them up. You okay with that sort of thing?
Accused who?
Can you stop your mindless spewing of Liberal Talking point and think for 10 seconds
You're just spouting right wing propaganda. The facts prove otherwise, if you dared to check into what really happened and not cherry-pick your info.
Can you outline the facts for us oh great one? Just saying so means nothing, you must prove your position with FACTS. Do you have any or are you merely a propagandist or a dupe for the Left?
Read the thread. I'm not going to spoon feed you over and over again. The reasons for what I said were already given. Just because some chose to keep believing false info, doesn't make it anymore right. Allegations don't rise to the level of proof, no matter how much you want it to be so.
