Senator McCarthy: Too Soon Forgotten

[Toronado3800]

Can you outline the facts for us oh great one? Just saying so means nothing, you must prove your position with FACTS. Do you have any or are you merely a propagandist or a dupe for the Left?

Read the thread. I'm not going to spoon feed you over and over again. The reasons for what I said were already given. Just because some chose to keep believing false info, doesn't make it anymore right. Allegations don't rise to the level of proof, no matter how much you want it to be so.

I went through the entire thread and you offered nothing to refute the facts laid out in the OP. PC is the only one to provide documented credible sources proving her position.

The Venona Papers confirmed McCarthy's accusations were correct FUCKING years ago. Why do you refuse to accept the truth, when it is right in front of you?

Could be that since Joe was so BIG and so MEAN, that he could not possibly be right? Since you leftists "think" with your emotions (how do you do that anyway?), that big meanie Joe McCarthy.....he is so....like ah so....like ah nasty and mean....boohoo

....said with a limp leftist wrist.....

Wow. Settle down lol.

What is the bar here we are trying to meet as I asked above?

Ruined as in suicide?

Black listed?

Guilty as in being an actual spy?

Or guilty of being a socialist or having been to a meeting or known one?

 

[Toronado3800]

Ok, I'm bored.

Does the Johnny Got His Gun blacklistdd writer Dalton Trumbo count?

Seems his career and life were negatively afftected.

He was a Communist for some time. As a Conservative I note few remarks of him doing anything illegal.

He was a pacifist but seems to have had second thoughts on that. But man, after writing the book which inspired the Metallica crown jewel I might even be a pacifist lol.

So if he is up for consideration I vote he was hurt. But I fear the OP and others may feel his political leanings make that acceptable?

 

[Toronado3800]

In these waters does the National Lawyer's Guild or membership in it count as a reason to be McCarthied?

 

[Toronado3800]

Every opponent in this thread bloviates as you do.....

Take the challenge: who did he injure that wasn't a communist agent or spy or proponent of the overthrowing of the United States.


Otherwise, you're simply another Pod Person, unable to process real facts.

Or....you can simply agree that that analysis is correct, and amble on.

Dalton Trumbo.

Wow....who'd ever thought you could pull that rabbit out of your.....hat?
Gee....did I make a mistake in challenging a well-educated guy like you: "who did he injure that wasn't a communist agent or spy or proponent of the overthrowing of the United States."

Hmmmm.....

Oh...wait!
You're just one of the herd, the Pod People who doesn't know whereof he speaks....aren't you?


1. . “Trumbo was part of the anti-fascist Popular Front coalition of communists and liberals in the late 1930s, at the time of the Spanish Civil War. The Popular Front against Nazism and Fascism was been torn asunder in August 1939 when the USSR signed a non-aggression pact with Nazi Germany. Many party members quit the CPUSA in disgust, but the true believers parroted the party line, which was now pro-peace and against US involvement in WWII. Trumbo reportedly did not join the Party until 1943 and harbored personal reservations about its policies as regards enforcing ideological conformity. However, the publication of his anti-war novel "Johnny Got His Gun" in 1939 coincided with the shift of the CPUSA's stance from anti-Hitler to pro-peace, and his novel was embraced by the Party as the type of literature needed to keep the US out of the war. Trumbo agreed with the Party's pro-peace platform."
Dalton Trumbo - Biography

2. "Appearing before HCUA (sic) in October 1947 with Alvah Bessie, Herbert J. Biberman, Lester Cole, John Howard Lawson, 'Ring Lardner Jr' , Albert Maltz, Adrian Scott, and Samuel Ornitz, Trumbo - like the others - refused to answer any questions. In a defense strategy crafted by CPUSA lawyers, the soon-to-be-known-as "Hollywood 10" claimed that the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution gave them the right to refuse to answer inquiries into their political beliefs as well as their professional associations. HCUA cited them for contempt of Congress, and the Hollywood 10 were tried and convicted on the charge. All were fined and jailed, with Trumbo being sentenced to a year in federal prison and a fine of $1,000. He served 10 months of the sentence. The Hollywood 10 were blacklisted by the Hollywood studios, a blacklist enforced by the very guilds they helped create. Trumbo and the other Hollywood 10 screenwriters were kicked out of the Screen Writers Guild (John Howard Lawson had been one of the founders of the SWG and its first president), which meant, even if they weren't blacklisted, they could not obtain work in Hollywood. Those who continued to write for the American cinema had to do so under assumed names..."
Ibid.

BTW, when the ‘Ten’ claimed a First Amendment right not to answer the House’s questions, the Supreme Court refused to even hear the case.

3. "In 1949, Arthur Schlesinger Jr., wrote in The Saturday Review of Books, that Trumbo was in fact NOT a free speech martyr since he would not fight for freedom of speech for ALL the people, such as right-wing conservatives, but only for the freedom of speech of CPUSA members.The anti-communist Schlesinger, a Pulitzer Prize-winning Harvard historian, thought Trumbo and others like him were doctrinaire communists and hypocrites."
Ibid.

4. "...Trumbo wrote approximately thirty scripts under pseudonyms and using fronts who relayed the money to him." Ibid.


And....I saved the coup de grâce for last:

5. " In fact, most of what people ordinarily mean when they talk about the "red scare" — the House Un-American Activities Committee; anti-Communist probes into Hollywood, labor unions, and America's schools and universities; the Rosenberg trial; blacklisting in the media and schoolteachers fired for disloyalty — had nothing to do with McCarthy and he had nothing to do with them..."
Joseph McCarthy


To review:
1. The test was: "who did he injure that wasn't a communist agent or spy or proponent of the overthrowing of the United States."

2. Your response of Dalton Trumbo is of course wrong, because he a) was a communist, and refused to admit that to HUAC....

and, b) It was SENATOR Joseph McCarthy, hardly a member of a HOUSE of REPRESENTATIVES committee.

...how about c) Trumbo continued to thrive during the 'blacklisting' by Hollywood. A very different fate from the Russians who died in gulags under his pride and joy, Joseph Stalin.


So...in offering Dalton Trumbo you have failed miserably.
My point about McCarthy.....

...proven.


Would you care to maintain your honor and admit same?

Got it. Being a law abiding member of a political party makes him guilty. May I apologize for misunderstanding your views.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It doesn't matter if they were ruined or not, he falsely accused them with no evidence to back them up. You okay with that sort of thing?

Accused who?

Can you stop your mindless spewing of Liberal Talking point and think for 10 seconds

Fine fine fine. I will go hunt during craps and post from my phone.

If you will be honest enough to answer (and you usually are)

What counts as guilty?

Being a spy?

Having gone to a socialist meeting?

Being an actor and talking about helping he poor?

Set the bar for me.

So you don't have the name of one single innocent individual ruined by McCarthy?

Not Zero Mostel? Woody Allen? Owen Lattimore? John Stewart Service? No one?

 

[Toronado3800]

Haldore Hanson, 80, Chronicler Of China and Victim of McCarthy - NYTimes.com

This is actually fairly interesting to me.

McCarthy did mostly figure out who was actually a member of the socialist party in the 30's. I mean the FBI may have told everyone or it may have been public knowledge.

My apologies for running up the post count. Darned cell posting while riding around.

I am gonna post a few more. Tomorrow I will be too busy to respond for a bit so post away back at me.

 

[Toronado3800]

Accused who?

Can you stop your mindless spewing of Liberal Talking point and think for 10 seconds

Fine fine fine. I will go hunt during craps and post from my phone.

If you will be honest enough to answer (and you usually are)

What counts as guilty?

Being a spy?

Having gone to a socialist meeting?

Being an actor and talking about helping he poor?

Set the bar for me.

So you don't have the name of one single innocent individual ruined by McCarthy?

Not Zero Mostel? Woody Allen? Owen Lattimore? John Stewart Service? No one?

Hey, don't be overly critical here. I keep asking for the yardstick of guilty and ruined. Set either far enough one way or another and even Ann Coulter will be hung lol. So just set me straight why don't ya!

 

[Toronado3800]

John Stewart Service was probably more a defeatist than a real Communist in regards to China. He lost a couple jobs and got rehired but never promoted.

He's another one who was suspected before McCarthy called him out a bit too publicly.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

John Stewart Service was probably more a defeatist than a real Communist in regards to China. He lost a couple jobs and got rehired but never promoted.

He's another one who was suspected before McCarthy called him out a bit too publicly.

Um, no. John Stewart Service was a real spy

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Progs were trained to hate McCarthy and froth at the mouth at the mention of his name because they were told that he used his HUAC to create a "Red Scare" (the timing of this Red Scare was curious: 6 months after the USSR tried to start WWIII with the Berlin Blockade, and 6 months before the ChiCom gave NoKO the go ahead to start killing US solders) and ruin the lives of the innocent.

What happens when you can't name a single innocent, when you see the Communists themselves started the Red Scare, when you realize it was McCarthy that was slandered and lied about?

It is the people who named up McCarthyism that are the liars

 

[gipper]

Amazing how the Left ignores or fails to comprehend what the commies were up to in the 1940s and 50s. They are concerned about people's reputations rather than the subversion of our government by Stalinist spies, at the highest levels of our government.

They have very effectively demonized Joe McCarthy and to this day, have ignored the fact that he was right in exposing commies in our government. Instead of realizing the real danger our nation was in, they have turned the tables and condemned the truth teller, while ignoring the reality.

That my friends is how liberalism/progressivism/leftism thrives. It can only succeed if the people are not intelligent enough to comprehend the truth.

 

[there4eyeM]

Facts were shown in this thread that McCarthy was a liar and do-nothing congressman. What he represents is antithetical to the true American spirit. One need not be 'leftist' to see this, and being accused of that is merely an excuse for lack of refutation.

 

[NoNukes]

Ok, I'm bored.

Does the Johnny Got His Gun blacklistdd writer Dalton Trumbo count?

Seems his career and life were negatively afftected.

He was a Communist for some time. As a Conservative I note few remarks of him doing anything illegal.

He was a pacifist but seems to have had second thoughts on that. But man, after writing the book which inspired the Metallica crown jewel I might even be a pacifist lol.

So if he is up for consideration I vote he was hurt. But I fear the OP and others may feel his political leanings make that acceptable?

I brought his name up, but they are claiming that he was not directly hurt by McCarthy. That is like saying that Hitler was not responsible for what his associates and henchmen were doing, and doing in the name of Germany.

 

[NoNukes]

Amazing how the Left ignores or fails to comprehend what the commies were up to in the 1940s and 50s. They are concerned about people's reputations rather than the subversion of our government by Stalinist spies, at the highest levels of our government.

They have very effectively demonized Joe McCarthy and to this day, have ignored the fact that he was right in exposing commies in our government. Instead of realizing the real danger our nation was in, they have turned the tables and condemned the truth teller, while ignoring the reality.

That my friends is how liberalism/progressivism/leftism thrives. It can only succeed if the people are not intelligent enough to comprehend the truth.

McCarthy and his associates went too far and hurt anyone in their way, innocent or guilty.

 

[gipper]

Amazing how the Left ignores or fails to comprehend what the commies were up to in the 1940s and 50s. They are concerned about people's reputations rather than the subversion of our government by Stalinist spies, at the highest levels of our government.

They have very effectively demonized Joe McCarthy and to this day, have ignored the fact that he was right in exposing commies in our government. Instead of realizing the real danger our nation was in, they have turned the tables and condemned the truth teller, while ignoring the reality.

That my friends is how liberalism/progressivism/leftism thrives. It can only succeed if the people are not intelligent enough to comprehend the truth.

McCarthy and his associates went too far and hurt anyone in their way, innocent or guilty.

Maybe so, but why do you fail to recognize that commies HAD infiltrated our government? JM identified them. Why demonize him? Why not demonize the commie spies?

 

[NoNukes]

Progs were trained to hate McCarthy and froth at the mouth at the mention of his name because they were told that he used his HUAC to create a "Red Scare" (the timing of this Red Scare was curious: 6 months after the USSR tried to start WWIII with the Berlin Blockade, and 6 months before the ChiCom gave NoKO the go ahead to start killing US solders) and ruin the lives of the innocent.

What happens when you can't name a single innocent, when you see the Communists themselves started the Red Scare, when you realize it was McCarthy that was slandered and lied about?

It is the people who named up McCarthyism that are the liars

We have been naming them. You guys are just going off with your revisionist history.

 

[NoNukes]

Amazing how the Left ignores or fails to comprehend what the commies were up to in the 1940s and 50s. They are concerned about people's reputations rather than the subversion of our government by Stalinist spies, at the highest levels of our government.

They have very effectively demonized Joe McCarthy and to this day, have ignored the fact that he was right in exposing commies in our government. Instead of realizing the real danger our nation was in, they have turned the tables and condemned the truth teller, while ignoring the reality.

That my friends is how liberalism/progressivism/leftism thrives. It can only succeed if the people are not intelligent enough to comprehend the truth.

McCarthy and his associates went too far and hurt anyone in their way, innocent or guilty.

Maybe so, but why do you fail to recognize that commies HAD infiltrated our government? JM identified them. Why demonize him? Why not demonize the commie spies?

We demonize both. Those of us on the left can do more than one thing at a time.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Amazing how the Left ignores or fails to comprehend what the commies were up to in the 1940s and 50s. They are concerned about people's reputations rather than the subversion of our government by Stalinist spies, at the highest levels of our government.

They have very effectively demonized Joe McCarthy and to this day, have ignored the fact that he was right in exposing commies in our government. Instead of realizing the real danger our nation was in, they have turned the tables and condemned the truth teller, while ignoring the reality.

That my friends is how liberalism/progressivism/leftism thrives. It can only succeed if the people are not intelligent enough to comprehend the truth.

They don't ignore it, they support it

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Facts were shown in this thread that McCarthy was a liar and do-nothing congressman. What he represents is antithetical to the true American spirit. One need not be 'leftist' to see this, and being accused of that is merely an excuse for lack of refutation.

What did he lie about?

He was understated in his assessment that State and the White House were overrun with Communist spies

 

[gipper]

McCarthy and his associates went too far and hurt anyone in their way, innocent or guilty.

Maybe so, but why do you fail to recognize that commies HAD infiltrated our government? JM identified them. Why demonize him? Why not demonize the commie spies?

We demonize both. Those of us on the left can do more than one thing at a time.

I have NEVER seen liberals or leftists condemn the commie spies. NEVER and that includes this thread. But you are very good at condemning anyone who speaks out and names names.