Serious questions for Trump supporters regarding this impeachment thing

[Ray From Cleveland]

I disagree with you here. I think it can end when Americans are fed up with this constant BS, and change leadership of the house, and strengthen the Senate for Republicans.
Then all they can do is sit in the corner and suck their thumbs with their pussy hats on.

I hope you are correct Ray.
But have you noticed the number of Republican politicians retiring? Why? what do they know?

What will Americans do "when they're fed up" ? Other than complain more on forums?
Vote more? You do know that some Democrat states have even removed Trump from their ballots?
You do know that they've formed an alliance to alter the electoral college?

Are you fantasizing about a victory for which there is no path?

Just like when Harry Weed changed the rules of the Senate, it can come back to bite you in the ass.

The EC changes are based on the popular vote. There is no guarantee of a similar election with Hillary. The popular vote may very well go to Trump this time, and even if those states where rule breakers voted Democrat, their EC votes will go to Trump.

States that say Trump will not be on the ballot is pure BS. The criteria to run for a US President is outlined in the US Constitution. States cannot create their own mandates beyond those standards.

I'm not worried at all. Now if our economy wasn't the pride of the world, you may have greater concern. But people are making more money, they are paying less taxes, no longer victims of Commie Care fines, and more jobs than Americans to fill them.

Voters will always vote for what's best for them personally.

 

[Faun]

Agree. And that is why there needs to be an investigation.

except now the mantra is no crime is needed, just think he's below the standards for the office.

it really does come across as "any port in a storm" and not an honest effort to address "wrongdoing".

I don't agree. An impeachment inquiry isn't necessarily going to benefit the Dems - Pelosi was doing a good job keeping the reins on that and I agreed with it - whether it was Clinton, Bush, Obama, or Trump the calls for impeachment were used more for partisan political purposes than serious crimes (Congress can always choose to censure). I think this one was a bridge to far and NOT starting an inquiry even though it might hurt the Dems would have been a derelection of duty.

Trump was refusing to pass on the whistle blower report which should not have gone to him in the first place and he had no legal right to hold and the contents are seriously concerning imo. The inquiry will allow them to get documents and subpeona witnesses expeditiously and this will hopefully become transparent and settled one way or the other quickly.

and schiff knew of this report a month before it was released. the entire act of WHAT A SURPRISE reeks to me.

if i were under attack 24x7 it would make me do strange things also, i'm sure. but the instant jump to IMPEACH as soon as they went public with it to me came across as pre-meditated and just for show as they knew what they were going to do for a month and had time to plan.

Other presidents have been under attack 24/7: Clinton, GW Bush, and Obama. Clinton went through impeachment for a relatively minor offense and years of non stop ever expanding investigations...so...I just don’t buy that as an excuse.

I have never seen a president excused so much and so regularly.

I DO think impeachment has become a partisan tool in recent years, starting with Clinton, continuing with clamors to impeach Bush, and then Obama. If the Dems had pursued impeachment based on the Mueller report, I would have disagreed and called it a partisan stunt.

I think current case though is potentially far more serious and warrants at least an inquiry and an examination. I think Pelosi realized this as well and that she had no choice but to go down that path. It is potentially that serious.

I say potentially because we don’t know the details, but from what we do know, sweeping it under the rug with a “everyone is attacking Trump unfairly” mentality is a dereliction of duty.

No president has gone through what Trump has. To say otherwise isn't being honest, to me.

And I'll wait to see what barr finds in his Russia narritave.

Oh? What has Trump gone through that Clinton didn't?

 

[Faun]

Other presidents have been under attack 24/7: Clinton, GW Bush, and Obama. Clinton went through impeachment for a relatively minor offense and years of non stop ever expanding investigations...so...I just don’t buy that as an excuse.

Minor offenses? You try testifying in court and found to be guilty of perjury. I guarantee you won't get the same treatment as Bill Clinton did under the law.

"You try testifying in court and found to be guilty of perjury."

Scooter Libby tried that -- and was found guilty.

First, you yahoo's cheered when Bush commuted his sentence.

Then y'all did cartwheels when Trump gave him a full pardon.

Your shit doesn't fly around here.

 

[Dr Grump]

That's pretty much it. Democrats haven't figured out that petulant tantrums and repeatedly false accusations are not an effective campaign strategy. At least with independent voters.

I disagree. The bit about the false accusations. A lot of what they have said is absolutely true, while the rest has been exaggerated. By false? No. mostly untrue. Just Trump Fake News.

 

[iceberg]

except now the mantra is no crime is needed, just think he's below the standards for the office.

it really does come across as "any port in a storm" and not an honest effort to address "wrongdoing".

I don't agree. An impeachment inquiry isn't necessarily going to benefit the Dems - Pelosi was doing a good job keeping the reins on that and I agreed with it - whether it was Clinton, Bush, Obama, or Trump the calls for impeachment were used more for partisan political purposes than serious crimes (Congress can always choose to censure). I think this one was a bridge to far and NOT starting an inquiry even though it might hurt the Dems would have been a derelection of duty.

Trump was refusing to pass on the whistle blower report which should not have gone to him in the first place and he had no legal right to hold and the contents are seriously concerning imo. The inquiry will allow them to get documents and subpeona witnesses expeditiously and this will hopefully become transparent and settled one way or the other quickly.

and schiff knew of this report a month before it was released. the entire act of WHAT A SURPRISE reeks to me.

if i were under attack 24x7 it would make me do strange things also, i'm sure. but the instant jump to IMPEACH as soon as they went public with it to me came across as pre-meditated and just for show as they knew what they were going to do for a month and had time to plan.

Other presidents have been under attack 24/7: Clinton, GW Bush, and Obama. Clinton went through impeachment for a relatively minor offense and years of non stop ever expanding investigations...so...I just don’t buy that as an excuse.

I have never seen a president excused so much and so regularly.

I DO think impeachment has become a partisan tool in recent years, starting with Clinton, continuing with clamors to impeach Bush, and then Obama. If the Dems had pursued impeachment based on the Mueller report, I would have disagreed and called it a partisan stunt.

I think current case though is potentially far more serious and warrants at least an inquiry and an examination. I think Pelosi realized this as well and that she had no choice but to go down that path. It is potentially that serious.

I say potentially because we don’t know the details, but from what we do know, sweeping it under the rug with a “everyone is attacking Trump unfairly” mentality is a dereliction of duty.

No president has gone through what Trump has. To say otherwise isn't being honest, to me.

And I'll wait to see what barr finds in his Russia narritave.

Imo...Obama has. And that is my honest observation.

Did the right threaten to impeach him all the time?
Did they demand random information to fish through in hopes of finding a crime?
Did the press give a shit how many scoops of ice cream he had?

Imo Obama had some legitimate questions about his activities but I simply don't want to rehash those all over again. We simply disagree, by quite a bit it would seem. We will see what barrcfinds and if all the hail Mary all your phone calls are belonging to us routine is honest, or is barr seeing some pretty nasty shit?

In the end regardless of what barr finds, half the country is going to think he's full of shit.

Then what?

 

[Slade3200]

Honestly man, I don’t think you’d know reality if it smacked you directly on the forehead. The whistler blower was the catalyst, followed by the DOJ keeping it from Congress, and the spark that lit the fuse was genius Giuliani on Cuomos show when he went off like a lunatic

The whistle blower, was a non-event. We've gone through it. The whistle blower knew even less about the phone call, than we know right now. The report was effectively a massive nothing-burger. Much like the Mueller report was a nothing-burger.

The report contained references to news articles, and hear-say. That's it. In short it was "I heard.... " and "There was a call...." and "Some people said....".

That whistle blower report was remarkable in only one way.... how little it had in the way of facts.

So why was it withheld? I'm convinced because either Trump, or someone in the Trump administration knew that delaying the release of this report, would be a brilliant political move. They knew that he left-wing, which has been both rabid and delusional in their attempts to destroy Trump, would toss themselves like a suicide cult, on this sword of their own making.

And they did. I have a hard time believing that Trump himself was this smart... but someone led the entire left-lemming-wing straight to a cliff, and encouraged them as they jumped to their deaths.

So let me clarify....

If there is something more here... and new evidence comes out showing illegal activity, then Trump is doomed, and I'm all for it.

But as things stand right now at this moment.... this will destroy the Democrats, and their lemming followers.

Trump is in melt down mode. His diehards probably love it but for normal people when our POTUS sends close to 50 tweets in 24 hours and brings up things like civil war, treason, confronting the whistleblower, White House spy’s etc etc etc it get real old. If we are talking about political strategy then I’m not seeing the brilliance from trump here I’m seeing a tail spin.

/----/ President Trump is driving the chaos. He's playing the libtards like a fiddle. By releasing the transcript, he derailed the lib narrative forcing Schiff to litteraly make up a conversation between Trump and the Ukraine President.
"We’ve been very good to your country. Very good. No other country has done as much as we have. But you know what, I don’t see much reciprocity here. You know what I mean? I hear what you want. I have a favor I want from you though. And I’m going to say this only seven times, so you better listen good. I want you to make up dirt on my political opponent, understand? Lots of dirt, on this and on that. I’m going to put you in touch with people, and not just any people. I’m going to put you in touch with the Attorney General of the United States — my Attorney General, Bill Barr — he’s got the whole weight of American law enforcement behind him. And I’m going to put you in touch with Rudy, you’re going to love him. Trust me. You know what I’m asking, so I’m only going to say this a few more times, in a few more ways. And don’t call me again. I’ll call you when you’ve done what I asked."

Your talking about the piece he called parody? Did you think he was trying to pass that off as an actual quote. That one when right over your head I guess

It only became a parody after a Republican pointed out he was lying.

He might have gotten away with it if not for the transcript being made public. But since it is public, only the Democrats will believe what he said. After all, Democrats don't think for themselves, they are only told what to think which is why he pulled it off.

Holy shit Ray.. you too?! You really think age was trying to pass that off as Trumps actual words?! Go watch the video again, this is going right over your head

 

[iceberg]

No president has gone through what Trump has. To say otherwise isn't being honest, to me.
And I'll wait to see what barr finds in his Russia narritave.

Imo...Obama has. And that is my honest observation.

And you would be a pure fool for saying this.

Obama had the entire media kissing his ass and glorifying him for 8 years even when he broke the law.

Trump has had the media Demonizing him every day since the election. Trump has been dragged through an ENDLESS series of investigations since day one. Obama did not. At all.

Pardon me, but with all due respect, one would have to be a blind and horribly biased imbecile to say what you just said.

If you really believe what you just said, there is little reason to discuss with you any further as you don't meet the level of intelligence needed to carry a reasonable, balanced conversation.

Do you simply want to dog on someone, or work for something more towards resolving differences? To date this tactic of yours has never changed a mind, only reinforced existing opinions of why you disagree to begin with.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Other presidents have been under attack 24/7: Clinton, GW Bush, and Obama. Clinton went through impeachment for a relatively minor offense and years of non stop ever expanding investigations...so...I just don’t buy that as an excuse.

Minor offenses? You try testifying in court and found to be guilty of perjury. I guarantee you won't get the same treatment as Bill Clinton did under the law.

"You try testifying in court and found to be guilty of perjury."

Scooter Libby tried that -- and was found guilty.

First, you yahoo's cheered when Bush commuted his sentence.

Then y'all did cartwheels when Trump gave him a full pardon.

Your shit doesn't fly around here.

You are comparing direct knowledge vs process crimes. It's one of the reasons Trump never accepted being interviewed by Mueller. You can choke anybody up by bringing up things they might have forgotten about, perhaps dates, places, whatever.

They knew all along that Richard Armitage was the real leaker. And what happened to him????

So of course Bush commuted his sentence. It was a witch hunt right from the beginning. Now would you like to compare what Clinton was sentenced to compared to Libby????

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

I'm not worried at all. Now if our economy wasn't the pride of the world, you may have greater concern. But people are making more money, they are paying less taxes, no longer victims of Commie Care fines, and more jobs than Americans to fill them.
Voters will always vote for what's best for them personally.

Damn Ray.....

Do you realize you just described Venezuela only a few years before Hugo and the Left plunged the country into chaos?
Venezuelans didn't elect Chavez.....OR Maduro....corruption did. Good thing we don't have that here.

Sadly, I feel most on the Right are also "Not worried at all". In fact so many are so relaxed and sure, they feel their participation won't even be needed in 2020.
There'll be PLENTY of votes for Trump, even if I stay home. (x 30,000,000)

"Trump is guaranteed to win". No doubt.

 

[iceberg]

I don’t think any one side is all wrong or all right. I don’t tend to view things so black and white. There is plenty of corruption, bad actors and such on both sides for me to whole sale clear either.
But in this particular event, I am very concerned.

If Trump actually did something wrong it should be known.
But applying "Justice" selectively to only those you agree with will not work ultimately.

It's unsettling that The Clintons can literally get away with murder (as best as I can tell) and Obama could use the IRS against Conservatives, yet NO ONE went to jail or was impeached.

Yet Trump has been dragged to hell and back 4 times now and many of his advisers were coerced into confessing things that were likely done on BOTH sides.

It is unsettling that you don’t give the Clintons the same unlimited benefit of the doubt you give Trump.

I trust our legal system over the courtof public opinion.

Let me know when Trump has a private server and then deletes requested information.

Then I'll start giving him the same benefit of doubt.

Zero.

Some things are beyond reasonable doubt and those actions to me scream party foul and ANYONE doing that gets zero benefit, esp if they fight investigations and destroy hard drives.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The whistle blower, was a non-event. We've gone through it. The whistle blower knew even less about the phone call, than we know right now. The report was effectively a massive nothing-burger. Much like the Mueller report was a nothing-burger.

The report contained references to news articles, and hear-say. That's it. In short it was "I heard.... " and "There was a call...." and "Some people said....".

That whistle blower report was remarkable in only one way.... how little it had in the way of facts.

So why was it withheld? I'm convinced because either Trump, or someone in the Trump administration knew that delaying the release of this report, would be a brilliant political move. They knew that he left-wing, which has been both rabid and delusional in their attempts to destroy Trump, would toss themselves like a suicide cult, on this sword of their own making.

And they did. I have a hard time believing that Trump himself was this smart... but someone led the entire left-lemming-wing straight to a cliff, and encouraged them as they jumped to their deaths.

So let me clarify....

If there is something more here... and new evidence comes out showing illegal activity, then Trump is doomed, and I'm all for it.

But as things stand right now at this moment.... this will destroy the Democrats, and their lemming followers.

Trump is in melt down mode. His diehards probably love it but for normal people when our POTUS sends close to 50 tweets in 24 hours and brings up things like civil war, treason, confronting the whistleblower, White House spy’s etc etc etc it get real old. If we are talking about political strategy then I’m not seeing the brilliance from trump here I’m seeing a tail spin.

/----/ President Trump is driving the chaos. He's playing the libtards like a fiddle. By releasing the transcript, he derailed the lib narrative forcing Schiff to litteraly make up a conversation between Trump and the Ukraine President.
"We’ve been very good to your country. Very good. No other country has done as much as we have. But you know what, I don’t see much reciprocity here. You know what I mean? I hear what you want. I have a favor I want from you though. And I’m going to say this only seven times, so you better listen good. I want you to make up dirt on my political opponent, understand? Lots of dirt, on this and on that. I’m going to put you in touch with people, and not just any people. I’m going to put you in touch with the Attorney General of the United States — my Attorney General, Bill Barr — he’s got the whole weight of American law enforcement behind him. And I’m going to put you in touch with Rudy, you’re going to love him. Trust me. You know what I’m asking, so I’m only going to say this a few more times, in a few more ways. And don’t call me again. I’ll call you when you’ve done what I asked."

Your talking about the piece he called parody? Did you think he was trying to pass that off as an actual quote. That one when right over your head I guess

It only became a parody after a Republican pointed out he was lying.

He might have gotten away with it if not for the transcript being made public. But since it is public, only the Democrats will believe what he said. After all, Democrats don't think for themselves, they are only told what to think which is why he pulled it off.

Holy shit Ray.. you too?! You really think age was trying to pass that off as Trumps actual words?! Go watch the video again, this is going right over your head

Yes, that's exactly what I think.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Do you simply want to dog on someone, or work for something more towards resolving differences? To date this tactic of yours has never changed a mind, only reinforced existing opinions of why you disagree to begin with.

What are you talking about?
Am I having a conversation with you?

I'm discussing with others. last I checked it's still a free country (somewhat) If you don't like it tough.. Move to Cuba.

 

[iceberg]

Do you simply want to dog on someone, or work for something more towards resolving differences? To date this tactic of yours has never changed a mind, only reinforced existing opinions of why you disagree to begin with.

What are you talking about?

Nevermind.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I don’t think any one side is all wrong or all right. I don’t tend to view things so black and white. There is plenty of corruption, bad actors and such on both sides for me to whole sale clear either.
But in this particular event, I am very concerned.

If Trump actually did something wrong it should be known.
But applying "Justice" selectively to only those you agree with will not work ultimately.

It's unsettling that The Clintons can literally get away with murder (as best as I can tell) and Obama could use the IRS against Conservatives, yet NO ONE went to jail or was impeached.

Yet Trump has been dragged to hell and back 4 times now and many of his advisers were coerced into confessing things that were likely done on BOTH sides.

It is unsettling that you don’t give the Clintons the same unlimited benefit of the doubt you give Trump.

I trust our legal system over the courtof public opinion.

Let me know when Trump has a private server and then deletes requested information.

Then I'll start giving him the same benefit of doubt.

Zero.

Some things are beyond reasonable doubt and those actions to me scream party foul and ANYONE doing that gets zero benefit, esp if they fight investigations and destroy hard drives.

And lets not forget sending classified information to a laptop where the aids husband used the same computer to send nude pictures of himself to strange women all over the world. Comey made sure that laptop (like Hillary's hard drive and cell phones) were destroyed.

 

[Slade3200]

Ohio Rep Mike Turner... been a trump supporter but spoke the truth about this situation. What’s his motivation?

"I've read the complaint and I've read the transcript of the conversation with the president and the president of the Ukraine," Turner said. "Concerning that conversation, I want to say to the president: This is not OK. That conversation is not OK."

"I think it's disappointing to the American public when they read the transcript," he continued.

Okay, I looked him up, and he did say that. But what he also said is he's totally against impeachment. He went on further to call an impeachment an assault of the electorate.

So basically what he said is he didn't like Trump's wording, but doesn't find any impeachable act in Trump's comments.

I’m against impeachment too. Think he should be voted out by the people next year

Let's see, we have employment records broken with all minority groups and women. The lowest unemployment in 50 years, and the direction we are heading, likely to break that record as well. Consumer confidence, business confidence, small business confidence are also the highest it's been in over a decade. A huge decrease in government dependency. An all time high in median household income.

You're correct. WTF were we thinking? Let's get rid of this guy already.

That’s where our economy was in 2016 except then all the unemployment numbers were fake and our economy was a disaster, right?! It’s all branding. Don’t be a puppet

The only puppets would be the dopes that would vote a guy like this out when he's sustaining and promoting a great economy. I'm no history major, but I suspect if Trump was voted out, it would be the first time in our history that a President under this economy was not reelected.

I think you are giving him way too much credit for things that happened but not because of anything Trump specifically did. These things you celebrate where happening before trump took office yet Y’all called Obama’s economy a disaster. They would have gotten to these record numbers no matter who was president. Only difference is if it were Clinton at the helm you’d be complaining about a slow recovery, fake unemployment numbers and not reaching 3% annual GDP. Do those talking points Sound familiar?

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Nevermind.

Yeah....that's what I thought.

 

[Slade3200]

Not according to the constitution. The Congress has the power to investigate and decide if a president has acted in a way that violates his oath of office or abuses his power. They vote for impeachment. That’s the legal process. Many feel that trump has abused his power with this Ukraine business so that’s where we are. This is how the system works. I personally think it’s overkill but it certainly isn’t illegal and Trump certainly crossed some lines. No doubt about that.

So which line did he cross? Impeachment is not a legal process, it's a political process.

Yes agreed. Those who want him impeached think he abused the power of his office when he leveraged military aid to solicit an investigation into Biden. Others thought the muller report had enough obstruction to justify impeachment.

He never leveraged military aid. Again, point this out to me in the transcript. Biden threatened aid, not Trump. Perhaps the problem is you are confusing the two events.

Biden threatened a loan to push an agenda sanctioned by our government and our allies. That’s a whole different bowl of potatoes. Trump leveraged the aid by freezing it, against the will of congress, then while discussing it with the leader of Ukraine he asked for a favor which involved personal business to help his campaign. Don’t play dumb Ray. It’s clear as day. Go read the transcript

Yes, Trump did freeze the money, but for the reason he wanted others in the UN to pony up their share. Plus he froze it a week before that phone call was even made.

It is a different bowl of potatoes. The guy Biden was after was pursuing the company Hunter worked for. Under those conditions, Biden should have recused himself from the project. Biden said it himself. He said that DumBama sent various people out to do various things. He was picked for the Ukraine situation which I find hard to believe was any kind of accident.

Ok, let’s go with that. How does cutting off aid to Ukraine incentivize our UN allies to pay more? And why did he unfreeze it before anybody paid more? Did he reach out to other country’s to pay more or was the freeze some
Kind of subliminal thing?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I'm not worried at all. Now if our economy wasn't the pride of the world, you may have greater concern. But people are making more money, they are paying less taxes, no longer victims of Commie Care fines, and more jobs than Americans to fill them.
Voters will always vote for what's best for them personally.

Damn Ray.....

Do you realize you just described Venezuela only a few years before Hugo and the Left plunged the country into chaos?
Venezuelans didn't elect Chavez.....OR Maduro....corruption did. Good thing we don't have that here.

Sadly, I feel most on the Right are also "Not worried at all". In fact so many are so relaxed and sure, they feel their participation won't even be needed in 2020.
There'll be PLENTY of votes for Trump, even if I stay home. (x 30,000,000)

"Trump is guaranteed to win". No doubt.

You have to remember we Republicans take out our anger differently than those on the left.

When the left gets pissed off, they have protests, riots in the street, destroying private and public property. We on the right get so pissed off that we make sure to make it to the polls hell over high water.

Not to worry. The last thing we Republicans will do is become complacent. If you don't believe me, just check out the standing room only events where Trump appears, compared to Biden who can't pack a high school cafeteria.

 

[iceberg]

I don’t think any one side is all wrong or all right. I don’t tend to view things so black and white. There is plenty of corruption, bad actors and such on both sides for me to whole sale clear either.
But in this particular event, I am very concerned.

If Trump actually did something wrong it should be known.
But applying "Justice" selectively to only those you agree with will not work ultimately.

It's unsettling that The Clintons can literally get away with murder (as best as I can tell) and Obama could use the IRS against Conservatives, yet NO ONE went to jail or was impeached.

Yet Trump has been dragged to hell and back 4 times now and many of his advisers were coerced into confessing things that were likely done on BOTH sides.

It is unsettling that you don’t give the Clintons the same unlimited benefit of the doubt you give Trump.

I trust our legal system over the courtof public opinion.

Let me know when Trump has a private server and then deletes requested information.

Then I'll start giving him the same benefit of doubt.

Zero.

Some things are beyond reasonable doubt and those actions to me scream party foul and ANYONE doing that gets zero benefit, esp if they fight investigations and destroy hard drives.

And lets not forget sending classified information to a laptop where the aids husband used the same computer to send nude pictures of himself to strange women all over the world. Comey made sure that laptop (like Hillary's hard drive and cell phones) were destroyed.

Nope. Trump's done none of that.

He says a lot of Jr high shit.
He strokes his own ego
His loyalty phrases are a "hit me here" flag.
He's a frustrating shit to deal with at times. But not all the time.

But he's never destroyed evidence as far as I know. Hell he's busy making private convoys public too often.

But I don't think he's done things to have to give him the benefit of doubt for. Not yet.

Certainly not on the same scale of actions.

 

[iceberg]

Nevermind.

Yeah....that's what I thought.

No you didn't but that's fine.

If you put any thought into it what I said was obvious. You are reacting, not thinking.

Bye.