Settlers Assault 60 Year Old Palestinian Judge

[Billo_Really]

What's there to discuss ??

It'd be nice if one of you would show some humanity and say something like, "Aw, that's fucked, dude!"

 

[toastman]

What's there to discuss ??

It'd be nice if one of you would show some humanity and say something like, "Aw, that's fucked, dude!"

I did

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Only some Palestinians were expelled and it was mainly during the 1948-1949 civil war in Mandatory Palestine.

You call over 750,000 some?

It's worth noting major violence between the two groups didn't take place until after the zionist migration began at the turn of the century.

According to the Shaw Commission in 1929:

If zionist intentions were not to dispossess the land from the indigenous population of arabs, the violence wouldn't have turned into an actual war.

That's understandable and I'm sure no one would fault them that. The problem arises when they migrated into the area with the intention of persecuting the native population of non-jews.

The King-Crane Commission had reported that Jewish colonists were planning a radical transformation of Palestine:

"The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission's conference with Jewish representatives, that the Zionists looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine..."​

That's what started all the violence.

So now your claiming 750 ooo were expelled by the Jews??? YOu are a massive liar !

THE UN records over 750, 000 Palestinians fled their homes and became refugees, between 1947 and 1949. AND Israel in clear violation of intl law does not allow them to return to their homes.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

what's there to discuss ??

it'd be nice if one of you would show some humanity and say something like, "aw, that's fucked, dude!"

i did

where?

 

[Billo_Really]

So now your claiming 750 ooo were expelled by the Jews??? YOu are a massive liar !

That number is according to UN reports...

The terror that spread among the Palestinian population was a crucial factor affecting developments in Palestine. It led to a mass exodus of refugees into neighbouring countries. The number of Palestinian refugees resulting from these hostilities were estimated to number 726,000 by the end of 1949 - half the indigenous population of Palestine. Charges that their flight had been incited by Arab leaders is refuted by a United Nations report noting that the refugees either fled from the war or were expelled:

"As a result of the conflict in Palestine, almost the whole of the Arab population fled or was expelled from the area under Jewish occupation".​

Don't kill the messenger!

I'm not sitting around making this stuff up.

 

[toastman]

it'd be nice if one of you would show some humanity and say something like, "aw, that's fucked, dude!"

i did

where?

I always condemn violent acts by Jewish extremists. Just because I don't express that in every thread, doesn't mean I don't condemn it.

 

[toastman]

So now your claiming 750 ooo were expelled by the Jews??? YOu are a massive liar !

That number is according to UN reports...

The terror that spread among the Palestinian population was a crucial factor affecting developments in Palestine. It led to a mass exodus of refugees into neighbouring countries. The number of Palestinian refugees resulting from these hostilities were estimated to number 726,000 by the end of 1949 - half the indigenous population of Palestine. Charges that their flight had been incited by Arab leaders is refuted by a United Nations report noting that the refugees either fled from the war or were expelled:

"As a result of the conflict in Palestine, almost the whole of the Arab population fled or was expelled from the area under Jewish occupation".​

Don't kill the messenger!

I'm not sitting around making this stuff up.

I know you didnt make it up, but you;re saying that all 750 000 were expelled. Many fled on their own or were told by the invading Arab armies to flee so as not to get in the way of the goal to drive the Jews to the sea

 

[AVG-JOE]

Why is it, the pro-Israeli crowd doesn't want to discuss the violent attack on a 60 year old man working on his farm?

Violent attacks on 60 year old men happen every day.... but RARELY, with the exception of inside any given theater of war, for so overtly political reasons.

That said, anyone who defends physical attacks on unarmed 60 year old Monkeys of any gender or national affiliation, for any reason other than political, has a sociopathic streak that just ain't right.

If defending this kind of violence for political reasons is something one must do, one should also shame the devil and tell the truth: one is a political extremist and ones mind is therefore closed on the subject.

Political passion I understand... I still can't relate to cheering on a mob thumping of a 60 year old Monkey, membership on the roster of the enemy team notwithstanding, but the passion behind the politics I understand.

 

[Billo_Really]

So now your claiming 750 ooo were expelled by the Jews??? YOu are a massive liar !

That number is according to UN reports...

The terror that spread among the Palestinian population was a crucial factor affecting developments in Palestine. It led to a mass exodus of refugees into neighbouring countries. The number of Palestinian refugees resulting from these hostilities were estimated to number 726,000 by the end of 1949 - half the indigenous population of Palestine. Charges that their flight had been incited by Arab leaders is refuted by a United Nations report noting that the refugees either fled from the war or were expelled:

"As a result of the conflict in Palestine, almost the whole of the Arab population fled or was expelled from the area under Jewish occupation".​

Don't kill the messenger!

I'm not sitting around making this stuff up.

I know you didnt make it up, but you;re saying that all 750 000 were expelled. Many fled on their own or were told by the invading Arab armies to flee so as not to get in the way of the goal to drive the Jews to the sea

Did you not read the last part of my post above?

It addresses that very statement!

I'll highlight it in [red] so it will be easy to find.

 

[Jroc]

You're very welcoming, it's a pity you aren't as welcoming or receptive to facts.

The Jews have a country.

It's called Israel. No one is arguing their right to a country.

Countries are not determined by vague ethnic groups like "Arabs". Otherwise, we would only need one European country. One African country. You get it right?

So, we agree that the Jews have their country. Now lets move to the illegally held occupied territory and the question of "settlers" invading it.

That belongs to the Palestinians.

Palestinian? Is Jordan country of "Palestine" Most of the people there call themselves "Palestinian?"

Jordan is Jordan.

The occupied territories are not and never were part of Israel.

You can play semantical games if you wish.

Was Jordan "Palestine" in 1967 or was Israel "Palestine"? Were the Arabs at war with "Palestine"? or Israel? Were the Arabs at war with Jordan? or "Palestine"? Did the Jews occupy "Palestine" in 1967? Or did Jordan occupy "Palestine”? Are Jordanians “Palestinian”? Or Jordanian? And what’s the difference anyway?

 

[Billo_Really]

Was Jordan "Palestine" in 1967 or was Israel "Palestine"? Were the Arabs at war with "Palestine"? or Israel? Were the Arabs at war with Jordan? or "Palestine"? Did the Jews occupy "Palestine" in 1967? Or did Jordan occupy "Palestine”? Are Jordanians “Palestinian”? Or Jordanian? And what’s the difference anyway?

The "occupation" is not a debatable issue.

 

[Jroc]

well...this might be a start at answering one of the off topic issues in this thread...

The 1922 census of Palestine was the first census carried out by the authorities of the British Mandate of Palestine, on 23 October 1922.[1]

"The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 1,454 Hindus, 808 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans."

1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The 1931 census of Palestine was the second census carried out by the authorities of the British Mandate of Palestine. It was carried out on 18 November 1931 under the direction of Major E. Mills. The first census had been conducted in 1922. Following the 1931 census, no further census was conducted in Palestine by the British administration.

The total population reported was 1,035,821 (1,033,314 excluding the numbers of H.M. Forces) – an increase of 36.8% since 1922, of which the Jewish population increased by 108.4%.

The population was divided by religion as follows: 759,717 Muslims, 174,610 Jews, 91,398 Christians, 9,148 Druzes, 350 Bahais, 182 Samaritans, and 421 "no religion". A special problem was posed by the nomadic Bedouin of the south, who were reluctant to cooperate. Estimates of each tribe were made by officers of the district administration according to local observation. The total of 759,717 Muslims included 66,553 persons enumerated by this method. The number of foreign British forces stationed in Palestine in 1931 totalled 2,500."

1931 census of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

we can see that the immigration of jewish people from europe after WWI and the balfour declaration is beginning to take place, but it increased dramatically in the '40s and '50s. most of the indigenous jews lived in or near al-quds.

Your numbers are well after the Zionist movement began and the Arabs started flooding in for the work

 

[toastman]

That number is according to UN reports...

Don't kill the messenger!

I'm not sitting around making this stuff up.

I know you didnt make it up, but you;re saying that all 750 000 were expelled. Many fled on their own or were told by the invading Arab armies to flee so as not to get in the way of the goal to drive the Jews to the sea

Did you not read the last part of my post above?

It addresses that very statement!

I'll highlight it in [red] so it will be easy to find.

read this:
Causes of the 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The causes and explanations of the exodus of Palestinian Arabs that arose during the 1947–1948 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine and the 1948 Arab–Israeli War are a matter of great controversy between historians, journalists and commentators of the Arab–Israeli conflict.

You simply will not get a definitive answer as to how every Palestinian fled. Of course Arabs will claim "All Palestinian fled because of Zionist gangs", and of course, you will eat up that story

 

[Billo_Really]

read this:
Causes of the 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The causes and explanations of the exodus of Palestinian Arabs that arose during the 1947–1948 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine and the 1948 Arab–Israeli War are a matter of great controversy between historians, journalists and commentators of the Arab–Israeli conflict.

You simply will not get a definitive answer as to how every Palestinian fled. Of course Arabs will claim "All Palestinian fled because of Zionist gangs", and of course, you will eat up that story

I would think a UN report would be more credible than Wikipedia. But since you provided the link, I'm obligated to read it. And in your link, a document by the IDF is referenced and listed 11 reasons of the exodus in order of importance and guess what? 4 out of the top 5 reasons support the UN report!

A document produced by the Israeli Defence Forces Intelligence Service entitled "The Emigration of the Arabs of Palestine in the Period 1/12/1947 – 1/6/1948" was dated 30 June 1948 and became widely known around 1985.

The document details 11 factors which caused the exodus, and lists them "in order of importance":

1.Direct, hostile Jewish [ Haganah/IDF ] operations against Arab settlements.
2.The effect of our [Haganah/IDF] hostile operations against nearby [Arab] settlements... (... especially the fall of large neighbouring centers).
3.Operation of [Jewish] dissidents [ Irgun Tzvai Leumi and Lohamei Herut Yisrael]
4.Orders and decrees by Arab institutions and gangs [irregulars].
5.Jewish whispering operations [psychological warfare], aimed at frightening away Arab inhabitants.
6.Ultimate expulsion orders [by Jewish forces]
7.Fear of Jewish [retaliatory] response [following] major Arab attack on Jews.
8.The appearance of gangs [irregular Arab forces] and non-local fighters in the vicinity of a village.
9.Fear of Arab invasion and its consequences [mainly near the borders].
10.Isolated Arab villages in purely [predominantly] Jewish areas.
11.Various local factors and general fear of the future.​

Maybe we should dismiss this list, because the IDF is a bunch of pro-Palestinian jew-haters?

 

[Coyote]

So back to OP. It seems that most feel it's just fine to beat an old man senseless, as long as our a settler and he's a Pali.

You are attempting to create something more out of a simple assault. It is not right of course, but it is not a remarkable issue.

Was Adelle a simple assault? After all, it was just youths throwing stones that caused a truck to swerve. Yet, it provoked much outrage and multiple threads. Perhaps an old man, beaten because of his ethnic identify, is not worth the same outrage.

 

[Coyote]

Settlers assault 60-year-old Palestinian judge------4/12/2013 RAMALLAH (Ma'an) -- "Israeli settlers on Thursday assaulted a 60-year-old Palestinian judge as he worked on his land near Ramallah, sparking violent clashes between Palestinians and Israeli forces.*Judge Ahmad al-Zir sustained multiple injuries, including head wounds, and was left unconscious in the attack, a Ma'an reporter said.*He was taken to the Ramallah Governmental Hospital.*Residents of Silwad headed to the al-Asour area, where the attack happened, and confronted settlers, setting fire to caravans in a nearby outpost.*Israeli forces arrived and fired tear gas and plastic-coated bullets at the Palestinians. A 16-year-old Palestinian was shot in the chest and the arm with plastic-coated bullets, medics said.*The teenager was also taken to the Ramallah Governmental Hospital and is in a stable condition."

Israeli settlers walk in an illegal outpost in the West Bank. (Reuters/Ronen Zvulun, File)

(An illegal outpost is an illegal settlement illegal under both intl law and Israeli law, but the IDF and Israeli government allow the illegal outposts to flourish and grow)

So what. This is from the patch of dingleberries you post here in order to garner attention.

What issue are you trying to set forth, sherriGaga?

Hatred of Jews.

So you think it's ok to severely beat an old man because he's Palestinian? Does that mean your issue is "Hatred of Palestinians"?

 

[Hossfly]

What sort of source is "palestinefacts.org"? It sounds like propaganda more than facts and gives absolutely no information as to who they are.

Other than that....you seem to buy into the "pro-Israeli" side puts forth that it was an empty land when the Zionists came.

It wasn't.

There were indiginous people and they were not just Jews.

There were Arab immigrants and Jewish immigrants.

The settlers represent the latest wave of immigrants invading occupied territory that does not belong (under international law) to them.

The Arabs got their countries.... Now the Jews have theirs...You're welcome again.

You're very welcoming, it's a pity you aren't as welcoming or receptive to facts.

The Jews have a country.

It's called Israel. No one is arguing their right to a country.

Countries are not determined by vague ethnic groups like "Arabs". Otherwise, we would only need one European country. One African country. You get it right?

So, we agree that the Jews have their country. Now lets move to the illegally held occupied territory and the question of "settlers" invading it.

That belongs to the Palestinians.

It appears that the Arab world speaks Arabic. There are different dialects the same way as you will find different dialects in different parts of each country. Can you say that the U.S. or even such countries as Italy the entire population speaks the same dialect? So there really is an Arab world according to the following site. I bet you that if you traveled in the Middle East, the people would define themselves as the country they live in plus also as Arabs. In fact, dig around and you will find that the people referred to as the Palestinians were the Jews and the Arabs were just called Arabs or Syrians. If you called an Arab a Palestinian, you would be insulting him because it would be like calling him a Jew.
However, if it makes you happy, believe what you want.
Arabic language profile

 

[Hossfly]

What sort of source is "palestinefacts.org"? It sounds like propaganda more than facts and gives absolutely no information as to who they are.

Other than that....you seem to buy into the "pro-Israeli" side puts forth that it was an empty land when the Zionists came.

It wasn't.

There were indiginous people and they were not just Jews.

There were Arab immigrants and Jewish immigrants.

The settlers represent the latest wave of immigrants invading occupied territory that does not belong (under international law) to them. We aren't talking about Israel as a whole but about a specific group of invaders who call themselves "settlers" and who's apologists seem to think it's ok to beat an elderly judge senseless.

Why not dig deeper and find out what some visitors who actually were in the area said about what they saw a hundred years ago or more.
I imagine you are also one who would call Winston Churchill a liar when he said the Arabs came in droves from their surrounding countries for jobs. Don't you think the British officials in the area saw what was happening and reported back?

Consider something: the attitudes of the early 20th century American and Europeans regarding the savages of the Middle East, Africa, and assorted other countries and how that might effect what they saw and reported? Everyone reports events through the lens of their own bias' and none of them reported and empty land.

Do you even need to be some kind of official in this country to see the population changes here. Can you honestly say that the population (unless you are living in a small, small town) is the same as when you were a youngster? Try as you might, there are records of what these early visitors to the area saw, and they certainly didn't see the area populated with all the Arabs you want the viewers to believe were there. By the way, it really is amusing how when the pro Palestinians don't like what is being said, it is always propaganda. However, whatever they say just has to be the Gospel truth.

It's really amusing to see how the pro Zionists ignore actual census figures from the time. It was not an empty land. I am not and have not claimed it was densely populated - but it WAS populated by both Arabs and a minority of Jews. I used a source that describes what it is and who is behind it. You did not.

Perhaps you might consider how many times the pro-palestinian sources are labeled "propaganda" or does that slip your mind?

You going to show us census records from the 1700's and 1800's? I didn't know the Bedouins had permanent residences which the census taker could visit. And really, Coyote, you should pay closer attention. I am sure the viewers are sharp enough to realize that it is mainly the pro Palestinians who are always screeching that some site or another is propaganda.

 

[member]

"Demographics change over time"

"they do, and usually there are explanations for those changes. the explanation as to why jews, who were a significant minority, becoming a majority and for the palestinians, who were a significant majority to becoming a minority, is european immigration, is the expulsion and marginaliZing of the indigenous palestinian population, and the refusal of those european immigrants to allow the palestinians, who where fleeing a war zone, (for whatever reason, which has no bearing on the matter) their legal right to return."

". . .why jews, who were a significant minority, becoming a majority and for the palestinians, who were a significant majority to becoming a minority. . ."


there are those that think the complete opposite of you. "jews were there first." no one is going to
change their "FEELINGS" (on both sides-ever) - that's why there needs to be a judge/referee/third party to broker peace.



when the President visited Israel recently, he only took meetings with netanyahu and abbas. where was the footage of the President taking a meeting with.............any HAMASs "OFFICIALS."








I DID look for some…..'meeting' photos.


Hamass: Gov’t of the Palestinian people, elected BY the Palestinian people.

President flies all the way “over there” to help w/Peace process.

Where are the photos with “Hamass, President Obama, Abbas and Netanyahu ???





There's plenty of Abbas with...everyone. There's plenty of Netanyahu and everyone. But, unfortunately, i couldn't find any group photos of the KEY players taking a meeting: “Hamass, Abbas and Netanyahu...








“He says “time is running out” for a two-state solution, but diplomats and regional experts have been delivering that warning for at least 25 years. One is personal: A veteran of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Mr. Kerry has developed a passion for the issue and seems to believe he can avoid the mistakes made by Mr. Obama, whose attempt to force a settlement freeze on Israel led to a rancorous three-way impasse between him, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.”


John Kerry?s efforts in Middle East could lay groundwork for success - The Washington Post

"...In a speech in Israel last month that paved the way for Mr. Kerry’s initiative, Mr. Obama urged that the settlement issue be set aside. But in meetings with Mr. Netanyahu and Mr. Abbas this week, Mr. Kerry appeared to make little headway. Mr. Abbas, who for four years said he would not negotiate with Mr. Netanyahu absent a settlement freeze, deftly shifted his ground, demanding that Israel present a map outlining its proposed borders at the beginning of any talks. Mr. Netanyahu, for his part, reiterated his view that the starting point should be Palestinian recognition of Israel as a Jewish state. Both leaders know their preconditions are non-starters."








they need to "take a meeting."

 

[Coyote]

Why not dig deeper and find out what some visitors who actually were in the area said about what they saw a hundred years ago or more.
I imagine you are also one who would call Winston Churchill a liar when he said the Arabs came in droves from their surrounding countries for jobs. Don't you think the British officials in the area saw what was happening and reported back?

Consider something: the attitudes of the early 20th century American and Europeans regarding the savages of the Middle East, Africa, and assorted other countries and how that might effect what they saw and reported? Everyone reports events through the lens of their own bias' and none of them reported and empty land.

Do you even need to be some kind of official in this country to see the population changes here. Can you honestly say that the population (unless you are living in a small, small town) is the same as when you were a youngster? Try as you might, there are records of what these early visitors to the area saw, and they certainly didn't see the area populated with all the Arabs you want the viewers to believe were there. By the way, it really is amusing how when the pro Palestinians don't like what is being said, it is always propaganda. However, whatever they say just has to be the Gospel truth.

It's really amusing to see how the pro Zionists ignore actual census figures from the time. It was not an empty land. I am not and have not claimed it was densely populated - but it WAS populated by both Arabs and a minority of Jews. I used a source that describes what it is and who is behind it. You did not.

Perhaps you might consider how many times the pro-palestinian sources are labeled "propaganda" or does that slip your mind?

You going to show us census records from the 1700's and 1800's? I didn't know the Bedouins had permanent residences which the census taker could visit. And really, Coyote, you should pay closer attention. I am sure the viewers are sharp enough to realize that it is mainly the pro Palestinians who are always screeching that some site or another is propaganda.

No, I haven't noticed that. Perhaps that is simply your selective interpretation. What I tend to notice is that the "pro-Zionists" don't often cite sources for their claims and they frequently object to proPalistinian's choice of sources. You'd best re-examine threads.

What it comes down to over and over is it was not an empty land and there are people there now who have been there for generations far longer than the so-called "settlers" who are relatively recent invaders outside of Israel's legal borders.