Sheriff rejects popcorn killer’s ‘stand your ground’ defense: ‘Why didn’t he move sea

[hangover]

What's scary is, how can a nut job like this get through 20 years as a cop? How many murders did he get away with while he was a cop?

 

[OODA_Loop]

What's scary is, how can a nut job like this get through 20 years as a cop? How many murders did he get away with while he was a cop?

None.

 

[jon_berzerk]

The focus is not the popcorn itself.

The focus is the deceased battered an elderly patron and did that elderly person believe he was facing great bodily injury.

If someone is going to start throwing things and verbally haranguing the elderly for such trivialness there may be a reasonable demonstrated fear of great bodily injury.

If you ask 100 seniors in the situation I would bet you get an overwhelming fear of great bodily injury. And it would be reasonable.

i wonder about the wife that got shot through the hand

the news says she was shielding her husband

or was she holding him back

it sounds like it got heated

That is exactly the point OODA is making and that is what shows that there was much more than throwing popcorn.

If the killed guy was yelling ( and it is already confirmed he was) and if there was even a hint of a real threat to the old guy - he might be acquitted no matter how ridiculous it sounds.

people tend to react emotionally and that is understandable - the guy was killed and there is an orphan left behind. The reason for the killing also seems unimaginable.

However, if one wants to get into the details of the ugly cases which end up in the lost life in home disputes, it is usually over something minor, not an estate or diamonds.

Just remember your last big fight with hubby/wife/kids/parents/siblings and what started it.

I am not defending the guy who killed the texter.

I am just reminding people that politeness and good manners developed in the human society exactly to avoid such situations.

texting in the movie theater, especially when somebody objects it, is the lack of good manners and straightforward rude.

Should the mom of a 40+ something be blamed for not teaching him respect for elders?

I don't know. But the situation was totally avoidable.

from what i have seen so far

the shooter is going to have an uphill battle for a self defense claim

 

[NoNukes]

How does texting in a theater bother someone else? I could see getting upset with someone yapping on their cell phone, although not to the extent to gun them down.

I have been bothered in theaters by someone texting, because of the light on the phone. Many people no longer have any consideration of the people around them, especially when cell phones are concerned.

 

[OODA_Loop]

the shooter is going to have an uphill battle for a self defense claim

How so ?

Florida law deems he is at greater jeopardy of great bodily harm or death at the outset.

 

[Vox]

What's scary is, how can a nut job like this get through 20 years as a cop? How many murders did he get away with while he was a cop?

so far the facts show that the other guy was actually a nut job.

1. the old guy asked him to stop texting as is the rule. he did not.
2. the old guy did not quarrel, but instead went to the administration to complain - actually the perfect proof he was trying to resolve the matter in a civilized manner.
3. When he returned, the texting guy got all up in arms because he was mad that the guy complained about him.

the detailed process how did it escalate further is up to the investigation to find out.

But if the wife of the killed man was trying to hold him back and he WAS yelling - that is a proof of a threat to the old guy.

Would it be enough to get him acquitted? from the murder charges - most probably, for manslaughter ones - I don't know.

 

[Vox]

the shooter is going to have an uphill battle for a self defense claim

How so ?

Florida law deems he is at greater jeopardy of great bodily harm or death at the outset.

he still might get the manslaughter conviction.

 

[OODA_Loop]

the shooter is going to have an uphill battle for a self defense claim

How so ?

Florida law deems he is at greater jeopardy of great bodily harm or death at the outset.

he still might get the manslaughter conviction.

Yes he could.

 

[NoNukes]

let's see if that's applicable.
it is definitely NOT a stand your ground situation.

even if you are being attacked by popcorn at 71 that is NOT going to fly as the reason for stand your ground.

This will go as a manslaughter conviction.

The focus is not the popcorn itself.

The focus is the deceased battered an elderly patron and did that elderly person believe he was facing great bodily injury.

If someone is going to start throwing things and verbally haranguing the elderly for such trivialness there may be a reasonable demonstrated fear of great bodily injury.

If you ask 100 seniors in the situation I would bet you get an overwhelming fear of great bodily injury. And it would be reasonable.

c'mon, you know it is not going to fly. there is no great bodily injury from popcorn flying around.

The killed man was stupid. Stubborn, rude and stupid.

But it does not mean he deserved to be killed or posed ANY threat to 71 year old.

Is there an age limit for legally carrying a gun?

 

[Vox]

The focus is not the popcorn itself.

The focus is the deceased battered an elderly patron and did that elderly person believe he was facing great bodily injury.

If someone is going to start throwing things and verbally haranguing the elderly for such trivialness there may be a reasonable demonstrated fear of great bodily injury.

If you ask 100 seniors in the situation I would bet you get an overwhelming fear of great bodily injury. And it would be reasonable.

c'mon, you know it is not going to fly. there is no great bodily injury from popcorn flying around.

The killed man was stupid. Stubborn, rude and stupid.

But it does not mean he deserved to be killed or posed ANY threat to 71 year old.

Is there an age limit for legally carrying a gun?

no, why should there be?

 

[JoeB131]

What's scary is, how can a nut job like this get through 20 years as a cop? How many murders did he get away with while he was a cop?

so far the facts show that the other guy was actually a nut job.

1. the old guy asked him to stop texting as is the rule. he did not.
2. the old guy did not quarrel, but instead went to the administration to complain - actually the perfect proof he was trying to resolve the matter in a civilized manner.
3. When he returned, the texting guy got all up in arms because he was mad that the guy complained about him.

the detailed process how did it escalate further is up to the investigation to find out.

But if the wife of the killed man was trying to hold him back and he WAS yelling - that is a proof of a threat to the old guy.

Would it be enough to get him acquitted? from the murder charges - most probably, for manslaughter ones - I don't know.

Well, unfortunately, this is Florida, where they let guys who shoot children in the street walk if they are the wrong race or social class, so there's that.

This guy needs to go to prison for the rest of his life, first degree murder. And we need to stop giving guns out to any asshole who wants one.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Is there an age limit for legally carrying a gun?

21 in Florida

Ah edit....other side of the age limit = no

 

[Vox]

What's scary is, how can a nut job like this get through 20 years as a cop? How many murders did he get away with while he was a cop?

so far the facts show that the other guy was actually a nut job.

1. the old guy asked him to stop texting as is the rule. he did not.
2. the old guy did not quarrel, but instead went to the administration to complain - actually the perfect proof he was trying to resolve the matter in a civilized manner.
3. When he returned, the texting guy got all up in arms because he was mad that the guy complained about him.

the detailed process how did it escalate further is up to the investigation to find out.

But if the wife of the killed man was trying to hold him back and he WAS yelling - that is a proof of a threat to the old guy.

Would it be enough to get him acquitted? from the murder charges - most probably, for manslaughter ones - I don't know.

Well, unfortunately, this is Florida, where they let guys who shoot children in the street walk if they are the wrong race or social class, so there's that.

This guy needs to go to prison for the rest of his life, first degree murder. And we need to stop giving guns out to any asshole who wants one.

well, unfortunately, this is the US and it is so far a law governed society.
And the laws will decide if what happened was justified or not.


In a meanwhile it would be better to refresh and undust some old rules of living in the society and the manners which has been helping to live for centuries.
If the young guy would just stop texting or just go outside - he will be alive today.

Simple, isn't it?

 

[jon_berzerk]

Not SYG
Justified Lethal force to stop the forcible felony of aggravated battery on elderly

Nope.

The prosecutor is eager to go to trial on this one. Slam dunk.

More is coming out, just like the Martin case.

Oulsen was the aggressor.

although it looks like an up hill battle for a self defense claim

there is not enough information out

when it comes to self defense claims

often it appears to be a slam dunk

and turns out differently

take John Wayne Rogers another Florida self defense claim

where the defendant was granted immunity after shooting

his drinking buddy with a 308

By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
6:26 p.m. EST, January 10, 2014

SANFORD — The murder trial of a blind man was cut short Friday after a judge granted a "stand your ground" motion for immunity and ruled the man acted in self-defense when he shot a drinking buddy in the chest with an assault rifle.

Hours after the ruling, John Wayne Rogers, 40, left the Seminole County Jail, a free man for the first time in nearly two years.

He had killed James T. DeWitt, 34, an overnight guest on March 27, 2012, after a long drinking session in Rogers' home in Geneva, a rural community in eastern Seminole County.

'Stand your ground' immunity granted for blind man who fatally shot drinking buddy - Orlando Sentinel

 

[Vox]

Nope.

The prosecutor is eager to go to trial on this one. Slam dunk.

More is coming out, just like the Martin case.

Oulsen was the aggressor.

although it looks like an up hill battle for a self defense claim

there is not enough information out

when it comes to self defense claims

often it appears to be a slam dunk

and turns out differently

take John Wayne Rogers another Florida self defense claim

where the defendant was granted immunity after shooting

his drinking buddy with a 308

By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
6:26 p.m. EST, January 10, 2014

SANFORD — The murder trial of a blind man was cut short Friday after a judge granted a "stand your ground" motion for immunity and ruled the man acted in self-defense when he shot a drinking buddy in the chest with an assault rifle.

Hours after the ruling, John Wayne Rogers, 40, left the Seminole County Jail, a free man for the first time in nearly two years.

He had killed James T. DeWitt, 34, an overnight guest on March 27, 2012, after a long drinking session in Rogers' home in Geneva, a rural community in eastern Seminole County.

'Stand your ground' immunity granted for blind man who fatally shot drinking buddy - Orlando Sentinel

That is a very good law and I am glad it is being applied wider and wider.

 

[jon_berzerk]

the shooter is going to have an uphill battle for a self defense claim

How so ?

Florida law deems he is at greater jeopardy of great bodily harm or death at the outset.

it comes down to reasonableness

 

[JoeB131]

[

well, unfortunately, this is the US and it is so far a law governed society.
And the laws will decide if what happened was justified or not.


In a meanwhile it would be better to refresh and undust some old rules of living in the society and the manners which has been helping to live for centuries.
If the young guy would just stop texting or just go outside - he will be alive today.

Simple, isn't it?

If the old crazy guy didn't have a gun, he'd still be alive, too.

And frankly, that works better.

I find people who text annoying, but damn, shooting the poor man.

I guess you guys need yourself a new hero now that Zimmerman's turned into a total shitheel, eh?

 

[OODA_Loop]

[

well, unfortunately, this is the US and it is so far a law governed society.
And the laws will decide if what happened was justified or not.


In a meanwhile it would be better to refresh and undust some old rules of living in the society and the manners which has been helping to live for centuries.
If the young guy would just stop texting or just go outside - he will be alive today.

Simple, isn't it?

If the old crazy guy didn't have a gun, he'd still be alive, too.

He was in fear of great bodily injury.

 

[OODA_Loop]

the shooter is going to have an uphill battle for a self defense claim

How so ?

Florida law deems he is at greater jeopardy of great bodily harm or death at the outset.

it comes down to reasonableness

For which the threshold is reduced as elderly citizen per law.

 

[jon_berzerk]

What's scary is, how can a nut job like this get through 20 years as a cop? How many murders did he get away with while he was a cop?

so far the facts show that the other guy was actually a nut job.

1. the old guy asked him to stop texting as is the rule. he did not.
2. the old guy did not quarrel, but instead went to the administration to complain - actually the perfect proof he was trying to resolve the matter in a civilized manner.
3. When he returned, the texting guy got all up in arms because he was mad that the guy complained about him.

the detailed process how did it escalate further is up to the investigation to find out.

But if the wife of the killed man was trying to hold him back and he WAS yelling - that is a proof of a threat to the old guy.

Would it be enough to get him acquitted? from the murder charges - most probably, for manslaughter ones - I don't know.

But if the wife of the killed man was trying to hold him back and he WAS yelling - that is a proof of a threat to the old guy.


it will interesting to learn which way the bullet traveled through her hand