Should Lincoln Have Accepted the Crittenden Compromise

[JakeStarkey]

America is what it is because Lincoln did the right thing and murdered the Old South.

The demography of the future, which cannot be stopped in its changes, will offer great opportunities and real challenges to younger Americans.

Although Anglo, I was fortunate to grow up in a mixed Anglo-Hispanic community, so that was never an issue.

I was fortunate that I served in the military under senior officers of color and some women.

There will not be the problems I think that you believe will occur: the millennials simply don't care about those things.

 

[Bush92]

Lincoln was not a dictator after absolute power; however, he was willing to do what was necessary to preserve the Union.

All the South had to do (and refused) was to recognize electoral and constitutional process, respect federal property, and keep slavery out of the territories.

The secessionists acted out and Lincoln murdered the Old South, righteously so.

Slavery was the primary cause of the war, the argument over tariffs but a minor symptom.

I'm sure Maryland appreciated martial law.

 

[Bush92]

America is what it is because Lincoln did the right thing and murdered the Old South.

The demography of the future, which cannot be stopped in its changes, will offer great opportunities and real challenges to younger Americans.

Although Anglo, I was fortunate to grow up in a mixed Anglo-Hispanic community, so that was never an issue.

I was fortunate that I served in the military under senior officers of color and some women.

There will not be the problems I think that you believe will occur: the millennials simply don't care about those things.

Lincoln committed murder alright. Millennials are weakest generation.

 

[JakeStarkey]

So Lincoln wanted war?

Wanted? Of course not. Willing to go to war is the South tried to divide the Union. Yup.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Millennials are far superior to Generations X and Y already and may top the Great Depression and WWII generations by the time it is all over.

Bush92, what is your specific worry about the future?

 

[Picaro]

Lincoln was not a dictator after absolute power; however, he was willing to do what was necessary to preserve the Union.

All the South had to do (and refused) was to recognize electoral and constitutional process, respect federal property, and keep slavery out of the territories.

The secessionists acted out and Lincoln murdered the Old South, righteously so.

Slavery was the primary cause of the war, the argument over tariffs but a minor symptom.

I'm sure Maryland appreciated martial law.

Along with Maryland, he also went into Delaware and Kentucky as well, and for the rest of the war used the military and friendly militias to control and stuff ballot boxes.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yup, his duty to do so as responses against a traitorous South that fired on Old Glory, spitting on Washington and the blood of the patriots.

 

[Bush92]

Lincoln was not a dictator after absolute power; however, he was willing to do what was necessary to preserve the Union.

All the South had to do (and refused) was to recognize electoral and constitutional process, respect federal property, and keep slavery out of the territories.

The secessionists acted out and Lincoln murdered the Old South, righteously so.

Slavery was the primary cause of the war, the argument over tariffs but a minor symptom.

I'm sure Maryland appreciated martial law.

Along with Maryland, he also went into Delaware and Kentucky as well, and for the rest of the war used the military and friendly militias to control and stuff ballot boxes.

Millennials are far superior to Generations X and Y already and may top the Great Depression and WWII generations by the time it is all over.

Bush92, what is your specific worry about the future?

It's already here, future hell. Our nation rots from within. Only 10% are willing to wear the uniform. Revisionist history teaches that America is an evil nation. Liberals in Hollywood and news media perpetuate the myth. People have no respect for law and order. A cop is attacked and a segment of our population cries over the attacker. We teach our children to be weak with baseball games and soccer matches with no winner. We have humiliated the armed Forces by allowing faggots to serve openly and rub it in on other members of the ranks. We have a federal government that tries to dictate to me every aspect of my life right down to the light bulbs I use and s'mores my grandkids eat. What am I afraid of? Nothing. What passes me off? NOW 2014. The future you speak of is now. My country is in ruins.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The country is fine, your moral compass is in ruin is all.

If you are old, you will be free of your discomfort soon enough.

 

[Bush92]

The country is fine, your moral compass is in ruin is all.

If you are old, you will be free of your discomfort soon enough.

The countries moral compass is off. When all goes to shit you millennials will suffer. I've been around boy. I've served this country twice over in uniform an I have worked hard and payed taxes my whole life. For what? To witness this shit.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Oh, button it. I am retired, a veteran, DAV lifetime member, wore the maroon and arctic berets, holder of two graduate degrees, successful CEO of our family business that we created and succeeded now run by my younger brothers, a husband, a father, a grandfather, and a successful kicker of kluckers and white citizen council butts. America has been wonderful for me, because I worked my way up and took the opportunities available.

No one handed me anything.

What the hell are you whining about?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

It merely depends on who you see as having wanted the war.

Maybe, but nowhere in the Constitution was the President ever given the unilateral right to determine what was constitutional or not, then suspending habeas corpus and tossing politicians and newspaper editors into jail over disagreeing with his claims, and launching armies at the secessionist states.

The case of North Carolina should have gone to the Supreme Court first. Madison and others, though not all who representative of the 'Founders' as a whole, but still influential, said otherwise, that the Federal government had no right to force states to remain in the Union, for instance. Even the majority of northern opinion was opposed to using force against secession, until after Lincoln's provocation at Sumter, along with the editorials in most papers pointing out how the Confederacy's low tariffs would cost them a lot of revenue and drive up competition, via both the Atlantic ports in the South and up the Mississippi from New Orleans to Pittsburgh and beyond in the western states.

Well, yes. My point was that if you see the south as having wanted the war, despite the fact that they were hardly the favorites to win any war against the north and must have known that, then you would point to slavery as being the cause because slavery was a huge factor in their choosing to secede in the first place. You might also point to the Cornerstone speech as evidence, despite the fact that the Vice President of the Confederacy had little real power, and that Jefferson Davis publicly stated his opposition to war.

Since speeches given by politicians are generally meaningless for determining real motives, what is said for public consumption propaganda purposes doesn't impress me; as I pointed out in another post, hacks aren't going to run around using their real motives as 'talking points' for whipping up support and votes. It doesn't mean 'slavery' was the main issue, since hardly anybody was opposed to that 'principle', either in the North or the South.

If, however, you see Lincoln as being the aggressor, as I do, then you would point out his threats to invade in his first Inaugural Address, as I did.

Well, it's obvious that Lincoln was the aggressor, so it's a moot point whether or not one 'sees' one side or the other. It's a cut and dried fact he was, as we have his actions and the actions of the radical wing of his Party for evidence, and don't need self-serving speeches as proof.

Well Jake doesn't need me to make his points for him, so if you have an issue with his position maybe you should take it up with him.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Picaro is as entitled to be wrong as is anybody on the Board.

He is doing a good job at blowing up his position.

 

[Picaro]

Well Jake doesn't need me to make his points for him, so if you have an issue with his position maybe you should take it up with him.

I was addressing your post. I don't pay attention to trolls like Jake or Paperview. He knows nothing about any of this stuff, and just likes to attention whore and annoy people who do.Jake, for instance, apparently thinks states like Wisconsin, Minnesota, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and New York were somehow southern slave states that seceded, for some reason known only to him.

Re the comments on personal biases determining which 'side' one is on, I'm not personally a fan of states' rights, then or now, nor consider a central bank 'evil', have never supported slavery, have no problems per se with federal spending on internal improvements, etc., none of which need compel me to write up apologias for sociopaths like Lincoln and his backers, whose criminal illegal acts of mass murder and use of federal troops as a personal army loyal only to the Republican Party, paralleled those of Adolph Hitler's Nazi Party.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Well Jake doesn't need me to make his points for him, so if you have an issue with his position maybe you should take it up with him.

I was addressing your post. I don't pay attention to trolls like Jake or Paperview. He knows nothing about any of this stuff, and just likes to attention whore and annoy people who do.Jake, for instance, apparently thinks states like Wisconsin, Minnesota, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and New York were somehow southern slave states that seceded, for some reason known only to him.

Re the comments on personal biases determining which 'side' one is on, I'm not personally a fan of states' rights, then or now, nor consider a central bank 'evil', have never supported slavery, have no problems per se with federal spending on internal improvements, etc., none of which need compel me to write up apologias for sociopaths like Lincoln and his backers, whose criminal illegal acts of mass murder and use of federal troops as a personal army loyal only to the Republican Party, paralleled those of Adolph Hitler's Nazi Party.

I don't make excuses for Lincoln either, merely pointing out that there are in fact differences of opinions.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Picaro, telling obvious lies such as "Jake, for instance, apparently thinks states like Wisconsin, Minnesota, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and New York were somehow southern slave states that seceded, for some reason known only to him" not only gives people tremendous fun at your expense, such nonsense forever damages your rep on the subject beyond repair.

paperview is the acknowledged expert on the Board on these matters. She has no peer.

I am good but not in her league, and I make you look like a 2d grader.

I am not being mean or ugly, just telling the truth.

 

[Picaro]

I don't make excuses for Lincoln either, merely pointing out that there are in fact differences of opinions.

I wasn't disagreeing with or arguing against your points.

 

[Picaro]

Picaro, telling obvious lies such as "Jake, for instance, apparently thinks states like Wisconsin, Minnesota, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and New York were somehow southern slave states that seceded, for some reason known only to him" not only gives people tremendous fun at your expense, such nonsense forever damages your rep on the subject beyond repair.

Your usual delusional commentary.

paperview is the acknowledged expert on the Board on these matters. She has no peer.

So you're saying she is deliberately avoiding addressing anything on purpose when quoting peoples' posts, and merely trolling like an infant? That was already obvious, Jake.

I am good but not in her league, and I make you look like a 2d grader.

lollerz.

I am not being mean or ugly, just telling the truth.

You're just being a troll, Jake.

Jake once sent me a PM, informing me he was reporting one of my posts, 'for being too long'. lol

 

[Picaro]

Lincoln committed murder alright. Millennials are weakest generation.

Lincoln also ordered Pope into Minnesota for the sole purpose of exterminating the Sioux there, rather than paying them what the had government owed them for their lands sold in 1852; he printed up plenty of money to stuff the pockets of his cronies and his Party's hacks with, but couldn't find any for paying legitimate debts owed. The only reason some them weren't murdered outright was concern over how that would look in Europe, so he and Pope only murdered a few dozen of them, a big disappointment for Lincoln and Pope. The Sioux committed the horrible crime of of suffering from a famine and wanted to be paid what they were owed. The PC Police never seem to want to discuss that, much less the illegality of Lincoln's mass murders of Southerners. Lincoln's murders of the Sioux set the precedent for dealing with Indian tribes for the rest of the century.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Picaro mumbles and stumbles along as his arguments bumble and crumble. paperview never has any trouble correcting your nonsense, as you well know.

You were not following the rules, son: live with it.

Pull your thesis above in a normal academic or scholastic setting and the experts will roar with laughter at your silliness.