Should Thanksgiving even be a holiday?

[AVG-JOE]

Negged! You are an idiot.

Well to whom is the thanks being given? The Annunaki?

You fucking fool. You just negged me for another post. You can't do it again, not for a couple of days. Do you keep a list or something, or keep everyone in mind you need to neg, remembering every 48 hours who is on your list? How pathetic you are. So sad and pathetic. Has anyone ever suggested to you that being negative, bitter and angry causes people to get ill, or if they are ill, to not deal well with their illness? The only person you are hurting with all your negging and negativity is you. No one really cares about the neg or pos points on this forum because they have lives. You should get one instead of wasting yours thinking about how you can punish the rest of the world for your being ill.

Here, here's you another: NEG!

You fucking idiot. I only negged the post in the response. I didn't give you a neg. But when the time is up, I fucking WILL you can bet on that one.

Why does getting a neg anger you so? Why is rep so important to you that you piss and moan and whine like this.

You also are too fucking stupid to realize that those theories you are alluding to have never been validated. You don't know one damned thing about my illness, so fuck you. And you don't know one goddamned thing about psychiatry as evidenced by issues you have publically disclosed on another thread. You are just another hostile hateful liberal who thinks the world owes you something attacking anyone and everyone because it doesn't. You are NOT a good addition to this forum.

You so vile and disgusting. Every time I post something you don't like you come back with a response that says, 'You're going to diiiiee, na na na na na.' Typical liberal. Just like the one quoted in my signature line. Well here's a flash you vile piece of shit. We ALL are. So what's your excuse for having the ego strength of a gnat?

And being the dishonest fuck that you are, you didn't mention the positive rep I gave you just a few days ago:

i hate my mother.... 11-14-2013 06:52 AM Esmeralda I know. Shocker.

Makes me wonder....

Who would Jesus Neg? ​

`​

 

[AVG-JOE]

Feel free. It's the same principle. Should an atheist or a Jew be forced to be off on those very Christian holidays? Or be forced to close their stores on those days?

It's up to the business owner when he or she is open or closed. If an employee doesn't like it they can find another job or just deal with it. Where are there laws that say a business is not allowed to be open on Thanksgiving or Christmas? Nobody is forcing anyone to be open or closed, or to work on a day they don't want to. Are there still places in this country that require business to be closed on Sunday?

The point is that every liberal on here, on another thread, is sorely indignant that some stores stay open on Thanksgiving depriving people of that day off.

I'm just playing along. People who don't believe in God to give thanks to should not be forced to be off work. And if they work for the government they ARE forced to be off those days. Unless it is something like the military, government agencies close that day.

Except that Gods and religion are completely irrelevant when it comes to the emotional response of being thankful.

 

[paperview]

Maybe the OP should bitch about Christmas.

Then we can talk about the Puritans -- those theocrats who outlawed it.

Aren't they the same crowd who 'gave' us Thanksgiving?

Yup. Sorta.

 

[Sunshine]

It's up to the business owner when he or she is open or closed. If an employee doesn't like it they can find another job or just deal with it. Where are there laws that say a business is not allowed to be open on Thanksgiving or Christmas? Nobody is forcing anyone to be open or closed, or to work on a day they don't want to. Are there still places in this country that require business to be closed on Sunday?

The point is that every liberal on here, on another thread, is sorely indignant that some stores stay open on Thanksgiving depriving people of that day off.

I'm just playing along. People who don't believe in God to give thanks to should not be forced to be off work. And if they work for the government they ARE forced to be off those days. Unless it is something like the military, government agencies close that day.

Except that Gods and religion are completely irrelevant when it comes to the emotional response of being thankful.

Straw man. The Thanksgiving holiday is based on a day that was celebrated by giving thanks to God, that of the Puritans and that of the Indians. That fact is undeniable. And it is the underpinning of the holiday. So why don't you insist on working that day. It would at least make your actions consistent with your words. And you have put plenty of words on here denying the existence of God.

 

[Sunshine]

Negged! You are an idiot.

Well to whom is the thanks being given? The Annunaki?

You fucking fool. You just negged me for another post. You can't do it again, not for a couple of days. Do you keep a list or something, or keep everyone in mind you need to neg, remembering every 48 hours who is on your list? How pathetic you are. So sad and pathetic. Has anyone ever suggested to you that being negative, bitter and angry causes people to get ill, or if they are ill, to not deal well with their illness? The only person you are hurting with all your negging and negativity is you. No one really cares about the neg or pos points on this forum because they have lives. You should get one instead of wasting yours thinking about how you can punish the rest of the world for your being ill.

Makes me wonder....

Who would Jesus Neg? ​

`​

I doubt He would neg. He would just use a whip like He did in the Temple.

Liberals are such whiney little things.

 

[Sunshine]

Any excuse for paid time off, eh?

I don't use my Sundays for church either... doesn't mean I don't enjoy the day off.

I'm talking law here. Should the government pay for a holiday based in religion? The gold standard is whether one religion is endorsed over another by the government. Given that there were only two religions present on the first Thanksgiving, it seems that the government is endorsing those.

And why should an atheist lower himself to take a day off in honor of a god he find abhorrent? Get with the program there, mod.

If your employer, be it public or private, gives you paid time off, enjoy it!

Nobody is trying to tell you how you must use the time, why should I be discriminated against because of my beliefs?

On a side note, based on the number of retail operations NOT giving time off, paid or otherwise on that day, I seriously doubt that it's a law.

On another side note, one needn't be thankful to a God to be thankful for what they have.

Last but not least, I'm not posting as a Mod in this thread. Just another average Joe.

In other words, don't stand up for your convictions. Be an opportunist and take advantage of someone even as you condemn them for their convictions.

 

[AVG-JOE]

How the hell is my getting Christmas off taking advantage of someone else? My employer signed a contract with me that compensates me for my hard work. Part of that compensation includes paid time off, some of which is on days like Christmas when the office is closed anyway, and some of which is days I can choose.

If anything, I'm being a really nice guy by taking Jesus' birthday with everyone else and not insisting that I get Carl Sagan's birthday instead.

Please explain how atheists are disadvantaging anyone by simply going with the flow and not being the self-righteous pricks we have every right to be on this issue.

This should be good.

​

 

[AVG-JOE]

And another thing... I defy you to link to a post where I CONDEMN anyone for their beliefs.

If anything, I'm one of the few posters of any persuasion who regularly defends various members right to be wrong.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The point is that every liberal on here, on another thread, is sorely indignant that some stores stay open on Thanksgiving depriving people of that day off.

I'm just playing along. People who don't believe in God to give thanks to should not be forced to be off work. And if they work for the government they ARE forced to be off those days. Unless it is something like the military, government agencies close that day.

Except that Gods and religion are completely irrelevant when it comes to the emotional response of being thankful.

Straw man. The Thanksgiving holiday is based on a day that was celebrated by giving thanks to God, that of the Puritans and that of the Indians. That fact is undeniable. And it is the underpinning of the holiday. So why don't you insist on working that day. It would at least make your actions consistent with your words. And you have put plenty of words on here denying the existence of God.

You do realize that it wasn't an official holiday until 1863, eh?

I tell you what... you call my boss and, ass-u-me-ing you can convince him to open the office on Thanksgiving Day, I'll be there. I'd rather have two days off at the end of January anyway.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Based on principles argued by the left on this forum, how is it that Thanksgiving is a legal American holiday? Yes it is based on a supposed historical event, but its underpinnings are entirely religious. Both he pilgrims AND the Indians believed there was a deity to be thanked for the abundant harvest. That is the traditional belief. Only two religious foundations there.

So, doesn't giving Thanksgiving day off to federal workers underpin a preference by the government for the two religions represented there?

I post this because the left is so classically atheist and yet they have gone to the mat over Walmart and other places staying open on Thanksgiving day. What's so special about that day other than the religious connotation. And I don't want to hear anything about family and other blah blah blah. I am a nurse and I learned years ago that it still feels like Thanksgiving on the Saturday after. You can get together with family and eat turkey and pray any day of the year.

And if the store owner happens to be atheist, then shouldn't his lack of religion be respected in regard to his store? Why should he have to close on Thanksgiving because his employees want to pray that day? Doesn't that violate his rights as a non believer?

geesh, you're nuts. The celebration. The celebration and observation: Thanksgiving (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[G.T.]

Thanksgiving is not religious. Serial neg repper.

 

[Sunshine]

How the hell is my getting Christmas off taking advantage of someone else? My employer signed a contract with me that compensates me for my hard work. Part of that compensation includes paid time off, some of which is on days like Christmas when the office is closed anyway, and some of which is days I can choose.

If anything, I'm being a really nice guy by taking Jesus' birthday with everyone else and not insisting that I get Carl Sagan's birthday instead.

Please explain how atheists are disadvantaging anyone by simply going with the flow and not being the self-righteous pricks we have every right to be on this issue.

This should be good.

​

Christmas is a Christian holiday. He is only giving it to you because of the Christian tradition. He, himself, may even be a Christian and is giving you, one of his servants, the day off according to HIS convictions. I can't imagine why you would want a Christian holiday, given how much Christianity is maligned and hated on this forum. You could insist on Carl Sagan's birthday and work on Christmas. You could even insist on Darwin's birthday instead of Thanksgiving. Now, that might reflect one of those many ethics that atheists claim to have, but in fact do not.

 

[Sunshine]

Thanksgiving is not religious. Serial neg repper.

Too early, but I'll get back to you first thing in the morning.

 

[Sunshine]

Based on principles argued by the left on this forum, how is it that Thanksgiving is a legal American holiday? Yes it is based on a supposed historical event, but its underpinnings are entirely religious. Both he pilgrims AND the Indians believed there was a deity to be thanked for the abundant harvest. That is the traditional belief. Only two religious foundations there.

So, doesn't giving Thanksgiving day off to federal workers underpin a preference by the government for the two religions represented there?

I post this because the left is so classically atheist and yet they have gone to the mat over Walmart and other places staying open on Thanksgiving day. What's so special about that day other than the religious connotation. And I don't want to hear anything about family and other blah blah blah. I am a nurse and I learned years ago that it still feels like Thanksgiving on the Saturday after. You can get together with family and eat turkey and pray any day of the year.

And if the store owner happens to be atheist, then shouldn't his lack of religion be respected in regard to his store? Why should he have to close on Thanksgiving because his employees want to pray that day? Doesn't that violate his rights as a non believer?

geesh, you're nuts. The celebration. The celebration and observation: Thanksgiving (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I thought wiki was beneath you.

 

[AVG-JOE]

How the hell is my getting Christmas off taking advantage of someone else? My employer signed a contract with me that compensates me for my hard work. Part of that compensation includes paid time off, some of which is on days like Christmas when the office is closed anyway, and some of which is days I can choose.

If anything, I'm being a really nice guy by taking Jesus' birthday with everyone else and not insisting that I get Carl Sagan's birthday instead.

Please explain how atheists are disadvantaging anyone by simply going with the flow and not being the self-righteous pricks we have every right to be on this issue.

This should be good.

​

Christmas is a Christian holiday. He is only giving it to you because of the Christian tradition. He, himself, may even be a Christian and is giving you, one of his servants, the day off according to HIS convictions. I can't imagine why you would want a Christian holiday, given how much Christianity is maligned and hated on this forum. You could insist on Carl Sagan's birthday and work on Christmas. You could even insist on Darwin's birthday instead of Thanksgiving. Now, that might reflect one of those many ethics that atheists claim to have, but in fact do not.

Interesting, but doesn't exactly explain how I'm "taking advantage" by not being a dick about it.

 

[Sunshine]

The thing about atheists is that not only do they not have any songs, they also don't have any holidays. They have to ride the coat tails of Christians on that one! And they do it shamelessly.

 

[Connery]

Lincoln in his Thanksgiving proclamation stated: "The year that is drawing towards its close, has been filled with the blessings of fruitful fields and healthful skies. To these bounties, which are so constantly enjoyed that we are prone to forget the source from which they come, others have been added, which are of so extraordinary a nature, that they cannot fail to penetrate and soften even the heart which is habitually insensible to the ever watchful providence of Almighty God."

Thanksgiving Proclamation by Abraham Lincoln

FDR changed the days to accommodate business, "In 1939, however, the last Thursday in November fell on the last day of the month. Concerned that the shortened Christmas shopping season might dampen the economic recovery, President Franklin D. Roosevelt issued a Presidential Proclamation moving Thanksgiving to the second to last Thursday of November."

Congress Establishes Thanksgiving


Thanksgiving to me is about how I live the rest of the year and the gratitude I feel is a state of being, not just about a turkey and whatever else the day represents.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The thing about atheists is that not only do they not have any songs, they also don't have any holidays. They have to ride the coat tails of Christians on that one! And they do it shamelessly.

Bullshit. I have holidays because they're in my contract. The religious tradition behind them is quite irrelevant to me at this moment in history.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Lincoln in his Thanksgiving proclamation stated: "The year that is drawing towards its close, has been filled with the blessings of fruitful fields and healthful skies. To these bounties, which are so constantly enjoyed that we are prone to forget the source from which they come, others have been added, which are of so extraordinary a nature, that they cannot fail to penetrate and soften even the heart which is habitually insensible to the ever watchful providence of Almighty God."

Thanksgiving Proclamation by Abraham Lincoln

FDR changed the days to accommodate business, "In 1939, however, the last Thursday in November fell on the last day of the month. Concerned that the shortened Christmas shopping season might dampen the economic recovery, President Franklin D. Roosevelt issued a Presidential Proclamation moving Thanksgiving to the second to last Thursday of November."

Congress Establishes Thanksgiving


Thanksgiving to me is about how I live the rest of the year and the gratitude I feel is a state of being, not just about a turkey and whatever else the day represents.

Freedom for every American to be thankful in their own way?

I like it!! ​

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Based on principles argued by the left on this forum, how is it that Thanksgiving is a legal American holiday? Yes it is based on a supposed historical event, but its underpinnings are entirely religious. Both he pilgrims AND the Indians believed there was a deity to be thanked for the abundant harvest. That is the traditional belief. Only two religious foundations there.

So, doesn't giving Thanksgiving day off to federal workers underpin a preference by the government for the two religions represented there?

I post this because the left is so classically atheist and yet they have gone to the mat over Walmart and other places staying open on Thanksgiving day. What's so special about that day other than the religious connotation. And I don't want to hear anything about family and other blah blah blah. I am a nurse and I learned years ago that it still feels like Thanksgiving on the Saturday after. You can get together with family and eat turkey and pray any day of the year.

And if the store owner happens to be atheist, then shouldn't his lack of religion be respected in regard to his store? Why should he have to close on Thanksgiving because his employees want to pray that day? Doesn't that violate his rights as a non believer?

You succeed in only exhibiting your ignorance of ‘the left’ and their principles, on this forum or anywhere else.

The vast majority of liberals are Christian, and an even larger number are persons of faith – consequently your premise is a fallacy.

And liberal principles are the same principles expressed in First Amendment jurisprudence: that it was the original intent of the Framers to keep church and state separate, but not keep religion out of government altogether. There are situations when religion is appropriate in government and when it is not, and Establishment Clause case law provides the criteria to make that determination.

An Establishment Clause violation occurs when the government’s action lacks a secular purpose, or when its primary effect is to promote religion, or when government becomes excessively entangled in religion. See: Lemon v. Kurtzman (1971).

Obviously recognizing Thanksgiving as a Federal or government holiday in no way violates the criteria in Lemon: the intent is secular, no religion is promoted, and no government entanglement exists. That something might have a religious origin or exist in a religious context does not ‘automatically’ manifest an Establishment Clause violation – that you would assume so is consistent with your overall ignorance.

What you incorrectly infer to be ‘atheism’ on the part of liberals is in fact not, as upholding the Constitution’s requirement that church and state remain separate when Christian fundamentalists attempt to enact measures offensive to the First Amendment is not ‘atheism’ nor is it being ‘hostile’ to Christians.