Should Thanksgiving even be a holiday?

[Montrovant]

I was not aware we were in a 'relationship.' However, I find that atheists on here are ALWAYS telling Christians what they should do, what they should think, what they should believe and not believe, and how they should behave. So, it's a bitter pill to swallow when it comes back around to you isn't it! You cannot deny that your stance on taking the holidays based in Christianity is hypocritical at best.

So you prejudge me and lump me in to a wide open group using pointless political labels?

That's kind of bigoted in my humble opinion, but, agree or not, I'll defend your right to express your opinion to my dying breath.


If you can point to a post of mine where I try to tell you or anyone how to live their lives, I'll apologize profoundly and kiss your ass on the 50 yard line of any game you buy the tickets for.

Do you seriously thing I am going to spend my time going back over all your posts? How arrogant.

As to the group thing, well did you ever hear of guilt by association? Or 'tell me who your friends are and I will tell you who you are?' Seriously you can't believe that someone would think you are the lone atheist who doesn't want all religious icons removed from public buildings, and all reference to God removed from government. That is what atheism is and does. Of course you try to tell Christians what to do.

As to bigotry, don't you think it is bigoted to insist on the removal of all things Christian from American government and then continue to use the tainted US dollar?

Wow, all atheists want religious icons removed, all reference to god removed, etc.? It's amazing how you can speak for them all.

That's especially true when you haven't actually defined atheist....some people consider it only those who deny all possibility of a god existing, others consider it anyone who doesn't believe in any particular god. Or are you, in fact, defining atheism as those who want religious icons removed from public buildings and all reference to god removed from government? It's hard to tell.

Good job using generalization and stereotypes to judge an individual, though! Well done.

 

[Connery]

Lincoln in his Thanksgiving proclamation stated: "The year that is drawing towards its close, has been filled with the blessings of fruitful fields and healthful skies. To these bounties, which are so constantly enjoyed that we are prone to forget the source from which they come, others have been added, which are of so extraordinary a nature, that they cannot fail to penetrate and soften even the heart which is habitually insensible to the ever watchful providence of Almighty God."

Thanksgiving Proclamation by Abraham Lincoln

FDR changed the days to accommodate business, "In 1939, however, the last Thursday in November fell on the last day of the month. Concerned that the shortened Christmas shopping season might dampen the economic recovery, President Franklin D. Roosevelt issued a Presidential Proclamation moving Thanksgiving to the second to last Thursday of November."

Congress Establishes Thanksgiving


Thanksgiving to me is about how I live the rest of the year and the gratitude I feel is a state of being, not just about a turkey and whatever else the day represents.

My point is not about what the day means to you. My point is that the Thanksgiving holiday is based in the religious sacrament of prayer. Therefore atheists should man up and decline taking the day off. Same with Christmas.

Atheists are always talking about the vile Christians and bragging about their own superior ethics. Yet, they will ride the coat tail of Christians for a paid day off and simply will not stand up for their lack of belief. That is not very ethical.

Not based on FDR's position, he was thinking economics not God.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I was not aware we were in a 'relationship.' However, I find that atheists on here are ALWAYS telling Christians what they should do, what they should think, what they should believe and not believe, and how they should behave. So, it's a bitter pill to swallow when it comes back around to you isn't it! You cannot deny that your stance on taking the holidays based in Christianity is hypocritical at best.

So you prejudge me and lump me in to a wide open group using pointless political labels?

That's kind of bigoted in my humble opinion, but, agree or not, I'll defend your right to express your opinion to my dying breath.


If you can point to a post of mine where I try to tell you or anyone how to live their lives, I'll apologize profoundly and kiss your ass on the 50 yard line of any game you buy the tickets for.

Do you seriously thing I am going to spend my time going back over all your posts? How arrogant.

As to the group thing, well did you ever hear of guilt by association? Or 'tell me who your friends are and I will tell you who you are?' Seriously you can't believe that someone would think you are the lone atheist who doesn't want all religious icons removed from public buildings, and all reference to God removed from government. That is what atheism is and does. Of course you try to tell Christians what to do.

As to bigotry, don't you think it is bigoted to insist on the removal of all things Christian from American government and then continue to use the tainted US dollar?

Ignorant nonsense.

Those free from faith simply understand and support the Constitution and its case law with regard to what is an appropriate relationship between church and state and what is not.

Those free from faith take no issue with religious symbols on public buildings – Christian or otherwise – provided those symbols do not represent the state advancing religion, or do not lack a legitimate secular interest, or do not manifest in excessive governmental entanglement.

Those free from faith do not seek to have all references to god removed from government, nor do they seek to ‘tell Christians what to do,’ again, the notion is idiocy, and consequently those free from faith harbor no ‘bigotry’ toward Christians.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Lincoln in his Thanksgiving proclamation stated: "The year that is drawing towards its close, has been filled with the blessings of fruitful fields and healthful skies. To these bounties, which are so constantly enjoyed that we are prone to forget the source from which they come, others have been added, which are of so extraordinary a nature, that they cannot fail to penetrate and soften even the heart which is habitually insensible to the ever watchful providence of Almighty God."

Thanksgiving Proclamation by Abraham Lincoln

FDR changed the days to accommodate business, "In 1939, however, the last Thursday in November fell on the last day of the month. Concerned that the shortened Christmas shopping season might dampen the economic recovery, President Franklin D. Roosevelt issued a Presidential Proclamation moving Thanksgiving to the second to last Thursday of November."

Congress Establishes Thanksgiving


Thanksgiving to me is about how I live the rest of the year and the gratitude I feel is a state of being, not just about a turkey and whatever else the day represents.

My point is not about what the day means to you. My point is that the Thanksgiving holiday is based in the religious sacrament of prayer. Therefore atheists should man up and decline taking the day off. Same with Christmas.

Atheists are always talking about the vile Christians and bragging about their own superior ethics. Yet, they will ride the coat tail of Christians for a paid day off and simply will not stand up for their lack of belief. That is not very ethical.

The only bigotry in this thread is that exhibited by the OP with regard to persons free from faith.

All the major holidays possess a secular aspect where those free from faith may observe those holidays without being ‘inconsistent,’ and take the day off accordingly.

Christmas, for example, was observed as a celebration of the Winter solstice long before Christians appropriated the holiday.

Everyone understands your point, just as everyone understands your point is inane.

 

[kjw47]

A true follower of the almighty and his son is thankful everyday of the week, 24/7, 365 days a year.--there is no need to set a day aside to try and prove it before the eyes of men if one truly was thankful.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Ah, so declining a paid Christian holiday when you object to everything else Christian would be 'being a dick.' So, then, why are you a dick about all the other Christian things that have resided in our courthouses and government buildings and which harm no one? I guess the difference is that you don't get paid the almighty dollar for letting those items reside there. My, my how little an atheist will sell out for.

No... insisting on working on a day when the office is closed, all the while insisting on having a different day off with more personal meaning to me, thus creating logistical problems for both my boss and my colleagues would be being a dick.


Why can't I just be a nice guy and go with the flow?

​

One might ask the same thing regarding the things atheists have demanded be abolished and removed from public sites where those things have resided for decades. You know, they can't even celebrate Thanksgiving with a prayer in school any longer and giving thanks is what the day is all about. I have to wonder how they even teach it. Perhaps it goes something like 'Adam and Bruce got together with Wywana and Watseeka and gobbled down a big feast of tofu because eating animals was politically incorrect.

Well, I worked where MLK day was a 'floating holiday.' The office was open. If you wanted the day you got it that day if you wanted it another day you got it another day. You might suggest to your boss a similar system, since Christianity and Christians make you so nauseous. I mean, Thanksgiving and Christmas are clearly illegal. The fact that they haven't been challenged doesn't mean they aren't. They are as illegal as referencing God in the pledge, and on money. It is even illegal to have the Eye of Horus on our money. No one seems to find using the US dollar abhorrent, though, even though it is replete with religious symbology. Atheists are big hypocrites. They want everything that Christians established and treasure for themselves, and they want to condemn those very Christians for establishing those things.

I could respect an atheist who declined Thanksgiving and Christmas. Surely your boss could find something you could do at home if he didn't want you in the office. I mean if I had a business, that is what I would do to accommodate the atheist employee.

No... my boss is following orders from his boss and she is following orders from above her to close the office on that Thursday. I work for a really big company and you have no clue as to what kind of a pain in the ass it would be to accommodate your silly sensibilities on this matter.

Give it a fucking rest already.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I was not aware we were in a 'relationship.' However, I find that atheists on here are ALWAYS telling Christians what they should do, what they should think, what they should believe and not believe, and how they should behave. So, it's a bitter pill to swallow when it comes back around to you isn't it! You cannot deny that your stance on taking the holidays based in Christianity is hypocritical at best.

So you prejudge me and lump me in to a wide open group using pointless political labels?

That's kind of bigoted in my humble opinion, but, agree or not, I'll defend your right to express your opinion to my dying breath.


If you can point to a post of mine where I try to tell you or anyone how to live their lives, I'll apologize profoundly and kiss your ass on the 50 yard line of any game you buy the tickets for.

Do you seriously thing I am going to spend my time going back over all your posts? How arrogant.

As to the group thing, well did you ever hear of guilt by association? Or 'tell me who your friends are and I will tell you who you are?' Seriously you can't believe that someone would think you are the lone atheist who doesn't want all religious icons removed from public buildings, and all reference to God removed from government. That is what atheism is and does. Of course you try to tell Christians what to do.

As to bigotry, don't you think it is bigoted to insist on the removal of all things Christian from American government and then continue to use the tainted US dollar?

You're the one with the claim... I'm innocent until proven guilty.

If it's too hard for you to prove, perhaps you should just admit that you're wrong.


Consider it an open invitation. One that I for one have extremely high confidence in the inevitable outcome, should you ever decide that you're bored enough to go down that road.

 

[MeBelle]

Thanksgiving is a holiday because Abraham Lincoln said so. We could easily get rid of nonsense holidays starting with MLK day.

Try it and someone with chase you with a turkey leg....

Turkey leg? Really?

Hmmmm, my legs haven't seen the light of day, intentionally, for a year.
Now, if you were to say 'turkey neck' I could go along with that since my Grandmothers set a great example.


Oh and negged for using incorrect terminology of turkey parts.

A turkey 'leg' is traditionally referred to as a drumstick, DorothyRue!​

​

 

[Connery]

Thanksgiving is a holiday because Abraham Lincoln said so. We could easily get rid of nonsense holidays starting with MLK day.

Try it and someone with chase you with a turkey leg....

Turkey leg? Really?

Hmmmm, my legs haven't seen the light of day, intentionally, for a year.
Now, if you were to say 'turkey neck' I could go along with that since my Grandmothers set a great example.​

A year? Thank the lord, you have done society a favor. Nevertheless, the correct terminology for your gams would be chicken legs

Oh and negged for using incorrect terminology of turkey parts.

A turkey 'leg' is traditionally referred to as a drumstick, DorothyRue!

​

In my area we call then turkey legs, now enough of your Mickey Mouse picayune tripe...

​

 

[syrenn]

Try it and someone with chase you with a turkey leg....

Turkey leg? Really?

Hmmmm, my legs haven't seen the light of day, intentionally, for a year.
Now, if you were to say 'turkey neck' I could go along with that since my Grandmothers set a great example.​

A year? Thank the lord, you have done society a favor. Nevertheless, the correct terminology for your gams would be chicken legs

Oh and negged for using incorrect terminology of turkey parts.

A turkey 'leg' is traditionally referred to as a drumstick, DorothyRue!

​

In my area we call then turkey legs, now enough of your Mickey Mouse picayune tripe...

​

omg.... disneyland has the BEST turkey legs!!!!

 

[Connery]

Turkey leg? Really?

Hmmmm, my legs haven't seen the light of day, intentionally, for a year.
Now, if you were to say 'turkey neck' I could go along with that since my Grandmothers set a great example.​

A year? Thank the lord, you have done society a favor. Nevertheless, the correct terminology for your gams would be chicken legs

Oh and negged for using incorrect terminology of turkey parts.

A turkey 'leg' is traditionally referred to as a drumstick, DorothyRue!

​

In my area we call then turkey legs, now enough of your Mickey Mouse picayune tripe...

​

omg.... disneyland has the BEST turkey legs!!!!

​

 

[Sunshine]

No... insisting on working on a day when the office is closed, all the while insisting on having a different day off with more personal meaning to me, thus creating logistical problems for both my boss and my colleagues would be being a dick.


Why can't I just be a nice guy and go with the flow?

​

One might ask the same thing regarding the things atheists have demanded be abolished and removed from public sites where those things have resided for decades. You know, they can't even celebrate Thanksgiving with a prayer in school any longer and giving thanks is what the day is all about. I have to wonder how they even teach it. Perhaps it goes something like 'Adam and Bruce got together with Wywana and Watseeka and gobbled down a big feast of tofu because eating animals was politically incorrect.

Well, I worked where MLK day was a 'floating holiday.' The office was open. If you wanted the day you got it that day if you wanted it another day you got it another day. You might suggest to your boss a similar system, since Christianity and Christians make you so nauseous. I mean, Thanksgiving and Christmas are clearly illegal. The fact that they haven't been challenged doesn't mean they aren't. They are as illegal as referencing God in the pledge, and on money. It is even illegal to have the Eye of Horus on our money. No one seems to find using the US dollar abhorrent, though, even though it is replete with religious symbology. Atheists are big hypocrites. They want everything that Christians established and treasure for themselves, and they want to condemn those very Christians for establishing those things.

I could respect an atheist who declined Thanksgiving and Christmas. Surely your boss could find something you could do at home if he didn't want you in the office. I mean if I had a business, that is what I would do to accommodate the atheist employee.

No... my boss is following orders from his boss and she is following orders from above her to close the office on that Thursday. I work for a really big company and you have no clue as to what kind of a pain in the ass it would be to accommodate your silly sensibilities on this matter.

Give it a fucking rest already.

I started a thread with a valid question in it. You do not have to continue to post in this thread.

But you are a prime example of the verse in the Bible which says 'the rain falls on the just and the unjust.' Those who have no use for God also enjoy the blessings He bestows on those who worship Him. All year long they will condemn God and His people insisting that this religious thing or that religious thing be removed from this or that courthouse, and then when the holidays like Thanksgiving, based on a religious sacrament, and Christmas, based on a Christian tradition, roll around they wallow in their paid day off. Do they stand up for their right to be free of these religious holidays? Oh HELL no. Hypocrisy at its finest.

 

[manifold]

Based on principles argued by the left on this forum, how is it that Thanksgiving is a legal American holiday? Yes it is based on a supposed historical event, but its underpinnings are entirely religious. Both he pilgrims AND the Indians believed there was a deity to be thanked for the abundant harvest. That is the traditional belief. Only two religious foundations there.

So, doesn't giving Thanksgiving day off to federal workers underpin a preference by the government for the two religions represented there?

I post this because the left is so classically atheist and yet they have gone to the mat over Walmart and other places staying open on Thanksgiving day. What's so special about that day other than the religious connotation. And I don't want to hear anything about family and other blah blah blah. I am a nurse and I learned years ago that it still feels like Thanksgiving on the Saturday after. You can get together with family and eat turkey and pray any day of the year.

And if the store owner happens to be atheist, then shouldn't his lack of religion be respected in regard to his store? Why should he have to close on Thanksgiving because his employees want to pray that day? Doesn't that violate his rights as a non believer?

Is this some attempt at an elaborate strawman, or are you actually arguing that Thanksgiving shouldn't be a national holiday?

I honestly can't tell.

And the correct answer was A, yes for those playing along at home the correct answer was again, A.

 

[WinterBorn]

Any excuse for paid time off, eh?

I don't use my Sundays for church either... doesn't mean I don't enjoy the day off.

I'm talking law here. Should the government pay for a holiday based in religion? The gold standard is whether one religion is endorsed over another by the government. Given that there were only two religions present on the first Thanksgiving, it seems that the government is endorsing those.

And why should an atheist lower himself to take a day off in honor of a god he find abhorrent? Get with the program there, mod.

The fact that there is no actual endorsement of any specific religion shoots down your argument. That there were two religions present at the original event is not the issue. Christmas was originally a pagan holiday, was then coopted by the Christians, and has finally become a somewhat secular, commercial holiday. Gov't does not outlaw religion, pers e. It is simply not allowed to select one above the others.

 

[Moonglow]

Feel free. It's the same principle. Should an atheist or a Jew be forced to be off on those very Christian holidays? Or be forced to close their stores on those days?

It's up to the business owner when he or she is open or closed. If an employee doesn't like it they can find another job or just deal with it. Where are there laws that say a business is not allowed to be open on Thanksgiving or Christmas? Nobody is forcing anyone to be open or closed, or to work on a day they don't want to. Are there still places in this country that require business to be closed on Sunday?

The point is that every liberal on here, on another thread, is sorely indignant that some stores stay open on Thanksgiving depriving people of that day off.

I'm just playing along. People who don't believe in God to give thanks to should not be forced to be off work. And if they work for the government they ARE forced to be off those days. Unless it is something like the military, government agencies close that day.

I've worked so many holidays I don't give a shit if someone wants to be open. What I do give a shit about is your constantly trying to put all people into your idea of what they are.

 

[Sunshine]

Any excuse for paid time off, eh?

I don't use my Sundays for church either... doesn't mean I don't enjoy the day off.

I'm talking law here. Should the government pay for a holiday based in religion? The gold standard is whether one religion is endorsed over another by the government. Given that there were only two religions present on the first Thanksgiving, it seems that the government is endorsing those.

And why should an atheist lower himself to take a day off in honor of a god he find abhorrent? Get with the program there, mod.

The fact that there is no actual endorsement of any specific religion shoots down your argument. That there were two religions present at the original event is not the issue. Christmas was originally a pagan holiday, was then coopted by the Christians, and has finally become a somewhat secular, commercial holiday. Gov't does not outlaw religion, pers e. It is simply not allowed to select one above the others.

Christmas in the US has never been a pagan holiday. In antiquity, perhaps, I can't say, I wasn't there. But Christmas has always celebrated the birth of Christ in the US.

And Thanksgiving is based on a religious sacrament. Always was. Who do you think the recipient of the thanksgiving is?

The tradition of Thanksgiving itself really gives a wrong impression of life in Colonial days. Harvests were not always bountiful, many people were not well fed, and there were serous food shortages in the 1600s. Forensic evaluation of the bones of residents of the Isle of Wight and the Smithsonian exhibit Written in Bone points up those very facts.

 

[AVG-JOE]

One might ask the same thing regarding the things atheists have demanded be abolished and removed from public sites where those things have resided for decades. You know, they can't even celebrate Thanksgiving with a prayer in school any longer and giving thanks is what the day is all about. I have to wonder how they even teach it. Perhaps it goes something like 'Adam and Bruce got together with Wywana and Watseeka and gobbled down a big feast of tofu because eating animals was politically incorrect.

Well, I worked where MLK day was a 'floating holiday.' The office was open. If you wanted the day you got it that day if you wanted it another day you got it another day. You might suggest to your boss a similar system, since Christianity and Christians make you so nauseous. I mean, Thanksgiving and Christmas are clearly illegal. The fact that they haven't been challenged doesn't mean they aren't. They are as illegal as referencing God in the pledge, and on money. It is even illegal to have the Eye of Horus on our money. No one seems to find using the US dollar abhorrent, though, even though it is replete with religious symbology. Atheists are big hypocrites. They want everything that Christians established and treasure for themselves, and they want to condemn those very Christians for establishing those things.

I could respect an atheist who declined Thanksgiving and Christmas. Surely your boss could find something you could do at home if he didn't want you in the office. I mean if I had a business, that is what I would do to accommodate the atheist employee.

No... my boss is following orders from his boss and she is following orders from above her to close the office on that Thursday. I work for a really big company and you have no clue as to what kind of a pain in the ass it would be to accommodate your silly sensibilities on this matter.

Give it a fucking rest already.

I started a thread with a valid question in it. You do not have to continue to post in this thread.

But you are a prime example of the verse in the Bible which says 'the rain falls on the just and the unjust.' Those who have no use for God also enjoy the blessings He bestows on those who worship Him. All year long they will condemn God and His people insisting that this religious thing or that religious thing be removed from this or that courthouse, and then when the holidays like Thanksgiving, based on a religious sacrament, and Christmas, based on a Christian tradition, roll around they wallow in their paid day off. Do they stand up for their right to be free of these religious holidays? Oh HELL no. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Or...

I'm just better at picking winnable battles, because I understand The Constitution.

I doubt that it's a winnable battle for you, but good luck with your movement to make ALL holidays floating holidays.

 

[syrenn]

A year? Thank the lord, you have done society a favor. Nevertheless, the correct terminology for your gams would be chicken legs




In my area we call then turkey legs, now enough of your Mickey Mouse picayune tripe...

​

omg.... disneyland has the BEST turkey legs!!!!

​

and just for you.......



Turkey Leg Recipe | Disney Recipes

 

[syrenn]

Any excuse for paid time off, eh?

I don't use my Sundays for church either... doesn't mean I don't enjoy the day off.

I'm talking law here. Should the government pay for a holiday based in religion? The gold standard is whether one religion is endorsed over another by the government. Given that there were only two religions present on the first Thanksgiving, it seems that the government is endorsing those.

And why should an atheist lower himself to take a day off in honor of a god he find abhorrent? Get with the program there, mod.

The fact that there is no actual endorsement of any specific religion shoots down your argument. That there were two religions present at the original event is not the issue. Christmas was originally a pagan holiday, was then coopted by the Christians, and has finally become a somewhat secular, commercial holiday. Gov't does not outlaw religion, pers e. It is simply not allowed to select one above the others.

and you think that a harvest festival was not of pagan origin?

 

[Sunshine]

I'm talking law here. Should the government pay for a holiday based in religion? The gold standard is whether one religion is endorsed over another by the government. Given that there were only two religions present on the first Thanksgiving, it seems that the government is endorsing those.

And why should an atheist lower himself to take a day off in honor of a god he find abhorrent? Get with the program there, mod.

The fact that there is no actual endorsement of any specific religion shoots down your argument. That there were two religions present at the original event is not the issue. Christmas was originally a pagan holiday, was then coopted by the Christians, and has finally become a somewhat secular, commercial holiday. Gov't does not outlaw religion, pers e. It is simply not allowed to select one above the others.

and you think that a harvest festival was not of pagan origin?

Not the one in America that involved the Puritans and Indians thanking a deity or deities for the good harvest, no. But even if it was pagan, paganism involves a deities:

Types of Pagan Deities - Pagan Deities by Type

Christmas in America has never been pagan. But even if it had been, there would have been other deities involved and the holiday would still be a religious holiday. Paganism and atheism are not the same thing. Atheism says there is no God.

Atheism has existed as long as people have. There have always been people who did not believe in God. The term atheist was first used in about the 1600s I believe, but I there is a Bible verse that states: The fool has said in his heart, there is no God. From Psalms, I believe.

The purpose of this thread is to point out how fiercely libs, particularly atheist liberals, will defend paid government holidays even though they are religious in origin and/or celebration after spending the entire year before trying to get all things Christian removed from any and every government building in the country.