Should the Social Security and Medicare Age be Raised

[Blues Man]

That's the GOP. Their "plan" is always no plan. Let corporations take over

Letting people put that 12.4 % of their lifetime income where it can actually make a differenc e in the quality of their lives in reitrement is the replacement plan

 

[Blues Man]

they are bonds of general fund debt payable to social security

The only "fiction" is that unless social security taxes collect enough each year to pay soc sec benefits each year, we have to use general funds to pay benefits

The temptation will be to just have the Fed buy more general obligation debt to pay benefits. But that could be inflationary .... of course inflation makes debt worrth less

General funds are always used to pay the benefits.

The bonds in the SS is the governmenbt borrowing money frogmen itself, then paying interest to itself and ALL that money comes from the general fund

 

[Blues Man]

ss is going nowhere this urban myth has been going around for decades.

To the detriment of the people and you like that don;t you?

Best to keep poor people poor even in retirement

 

[Blues Man]

Because that money was BORROWED in the first place. Are you against paying your bills?

Newsflash...there is no other mechanism to MAKE a Trust Fund other than borrowing and paying back via Treasury Securities

Newsflash there certainly are other ways.

And like I said the bonds bought are a special class of bonds that only the government can buy from itself.

It's a fucking scam.

If I decided to create a pension fund for employees and took 10% of their income and then I invented a class of bonds called Blues Man Bonds that belong to my company and only my company buy from itself then used all the money in the pension plan for whatever I wanted and then used money form my current employees to "buy back" my own bonds from myself to pay my retired employees I'd have been sharing a cell with Madoff

And you'd be outraged at the corporate greed

But you're too fucking stupid to see that the fucking government is doing that exact same thing

 

[Blues Man]

Speaking of no money saved, how do you plan to survive during retirement? Or is it your plan to work until you die!?

How about we let people put that 12.4% of their lifetime income into a real investment portfolio instead of a fake "trust fund"?

 

[Blues Man]

Every insurance company. If you pay the premiums, and then qualify, they send you a check. Every insurance company that has disability insurance will send you a check if you become disabled.

You might want to actually know what you are talking about before you call someone retarded.

And not to mention that private disability insurance is cheaper than SS and pays better benefits

 

[Blues Man]

Read the garbage posted on this thread dumbass

Bullshit.

The replacement is allowing people to put that 12,4% of their lifetime incomes into accounts they own and get it out of the hands of our corrupt malfeasant politicians

 

[WinterBorn]

How about we let people put that 12.4% of their lifetime income into a real investment portfolio instead of a fake "trust fund"?

Sounds like a great idea. However, a quick look at the facts for people saving will show they won't save.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You're more confused than the leftists.

Nobody is more confused than a leftist. That's why they ARE leftists.

 

[Blues Man]

Sounds like a great idea. However, a quick look at the facts for people saving will show they won't save.

Make it mandatory like it is now.

The same amount of money is taken out and put into an account the person owns

It would be more like a mandatory IRA.

 

[22lcidw]

You don't get it.

There is no way to "bank" Federal funds.

All they CAN do is borrow against Treasury Bills and put that money into the General Fund. When the T Bills come due the General Fund repays it and that is NOT a big deal.

That was always the plan and it works

Say what you spew is true. what percentages of interest is this getting? We have abused the Fiat currency as all governments do. It is just we started from the top of the pile as a nation. We have been given warnings over the last forty years or so of the fiat currency having problems. And if it does not affect someone in front of us it is definitely affecting someone, we do not see when it is abused. China is vying to become the world superpower from us. You see them ph ukn us over and your response is how deep you want them to put it into our ass. Being the world's reserve currency has benefits and that is reducing. China will have that honor and their currency will be used to consummate deals between nations in a couple of decades.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Sounds like a great idea. However, a quick look at the facts for people saving will show they won't save.

Correct, which is why if we would switch over, it needs to be a payroll deduction just like SS.

 

[Blues Man]

Correct, which is why if we would switch over, it needs to be a payroll deduction just like SS.

Exactly.

It can be a special class of IRA that the individual owns

 

[WinterBorn]

Make it mandatory like it is now.

The same amount of money is taken out and put into an account the person owns

It would be more like a mandatory IRA.

Would it be mandatory to leave it in there?

 

[Blues Man]

Would it be mandatory to leave it in there?

Until a certain age yes.

I would sat at least 55 and there would be no age where you would have to make withdrawals like there are with traditional IRAs

I haven't thought about all the details much but since the contributions would be pretax I would say that regular income tax would apply only to the contributions as you withdraw funds and that all the growth be taxed at a favorable retiree rate of 10% which is less than the regular long term capital gains taxes.

And any money left at death can be left as inheritance

 

[WinterBorn]

Until a certain age yes.

I would sat at least 55 and there would be no age where you would have to make withdrawals like there are with traditional IRAs

I haven't thought about all the details much but since the contributions would be pretax I would say that regular income tax would apply only to the contributions as you withdraw funds and that all the growth be taxed at a favorable retiree rate of 10% which is less than the regular long term capital gains taxes.

And any money left at death can be left as inheritance

Sounds like a reasonable plan. Which might be why Washington never went for it.

 

[Blues Man]

Sounds like a reasonable plan. Which might be why Washington never went for it.

Like I said we can't have people becoming financially independent can we?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Sounds like a reasonable plan. Which might be why Washington never went for it.

GW tried but the Democrats had a heart attack. The Democrats want people more dependent on government and not less. It's not just for control, but a campaign issue. Ever notice how at election time, the Democrat candidate tells people what Republicans want to take away from you?

My father was a die hard Republican most all of his life. He switched to Democrat when he got too old to work in the early 2000s. They scared this poor old man by constantly telling people bullshit about how Republicans want to take away your medicare, Republicans want to take away your SS and so on. Although he took an early retirement at 62, he could still work part-time so he could chance that the Democrats were FOS. Now he can't. He depends on SS, Medicare, his union retirement check, the VA, and rental income.

He can still count on his retirement and rental income, but if we were able to take SS off the table because people had their own IRA's, the Democrats wouldn't be able to scare older people as much in the future to win elections.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Until a certain age yes.

I would sat at least 55 and there would be no age where you would have to make withdrawals like there are with traditional IRAs

I haven't thought about all the details much but since the contributions would be pretax I would say that regular income tax would apply only to the contributions as you withdraw funds and that all the growth be taxed at a favorable retiree rate of 10% which is less than the regular long term capital gains taxes.

And any money left at death can be left as inheritance

You really can't withdraw from your IRA without penalty until you reach the age of 59 1/2. At that point you can withdraw without a penalty and even have no ceiling as to how much you can contribute to your IRA.

The government doctor I had to see to continue working told me I was too Fd up to work any longer so I applied for disability. So I checked into using my IRA because of the horror stories I heard about trying to get on disability which could take months and even years. Luckily they approved me in four months without a personal interview, medical examinations or tests by their doctors and I still haven't withdrawn from my IRA. It's my hope I don't have to use it as I can leave it to my family when I die unless the cancer disables me from being a landlord any longer in the next couple of years.

 

[FA_Q2]

they are bonds of general fund debt payable to social security

The only "fiction" is that unless social security taxes collect enough each year to pay soc sec benefits each year, we have to use general funds to pay benefits

The temptation will be to just have the Fed buy more general obligation debt to pay benefits. But that could be inflationary .... of course inflation makes debt worrth less

What are you talking about?

Of course the money comes from the general fund? Where do you think the money comes from to redeem those bonds? The sky?