Should the Social Security and Medicare Age be Raised

[FA_Q2]

Bullshit!
Social Security's tax revenue is, by law, invested in special U.S. Treasury securities. As with all Treasury bonds, the federal government can spend the proceeds on a variety of programs. But as with all bondholders, Treasury has to pay the money back, with interest. Social Security redeems the securities to pay benefits.
The notion is that the government is raiding or even stealing from Social Security and leaving it with nothing but IOUs. But the government has always made full repayment, and the interest increases Social Security's assets, to the tune of $76.1 billion in 2020.

However, a bond IS an IOU. That is what they are, the government takes your money and then spends it with the promise of paying back later.

And because it is an intra governmental bond, they pretend that IOU does not represent a liability. So the question becomes, if the 'trust fund' holds assets then who has them as a liability?

No one according to the government which is exactly why the 'trust fund' is an accounting gimmick and a lie. There is no way around that, ALL financial assets, assets that are not representative of actual hard assets that exist in the real world, represent a liability for the one that is supposed to pay when that asset comes due. Except the trust fund, apparently those are paid back in magical fairy dust...

 

[skews13]

Dumping it means that there would be a replacement of some kind I'm guessing, but I hope that doesn't end up working out like we've seen with healthcare debates in the past. Funny how all the debates just went away even during Covid, where as we haven't heard any new plans for an efficient affordable healthcare plan that doesn't discriminate based on any American's pre-existing conditions, one's income or one's profile in life.

MHC-QAAA - (make healthcare quality and affordable again).

They've been trying to dump it, since FDR submitted it. Are you aware of the traitorous cabal of wealthy elites that tried to get Smedly Butler to lead a small army to DC to get rid of FDR, for exactly that reason?

It's the same people, different faces. What we need is a bill submitted by the House, making it a criminal offense, with actual prison time involved, for any member of the federal government, including elected officials, to in any way cause cuts to Social Security or Medicare.

It could be called the Put It Back Act, and as such, the rules be rewritten to put in place the necessary tax language, that not only completely fixes the programs now, but the future as well, and actually expands the programs.

Let the Libertarian billionaire class whine and cry all they want. We can tell them if they get to loud about it, we can start taxing those shiny new rockets they are taking joy rides on.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It's the same people, different faces. What we need is a bill submitted by the House, making it a criminal offense, with actual prison time involved, for any member of the federal government, including elected officials, to in any way cause cuts to Social Security or Medicare.

What Nazi world do you live in anyway? The power of law comes from Congress. You cannot write a bill restricting Congress from doing their job.

 

[bendog]

The first sentence of the last paragraph is accurate

The second sentence is bullshit

And yes Treasury Bills are real and need to be paid back. That IS the Trust Fund

A trust fund is assets held by trustee for a beneficiary. In the case of soc sec, the only way for the beneficiary to
"get' the assets is to tax themselves. Or accrue more debt. Or cut govt spending, which is not happening BECAUSE we will have to pay soc sec from general revenue. Now had the soc taxes that were collected and not immediately spend paying benefts been invested is say ..... Chinese govt debt, or equities or corp bonds or even real estate ..... that would been a trust. Simply buying debt the taxpayer is responsible for paying anyway is not purchasing anything that is actually owed to the taxpayer.

And why are you being such a asshole. I've posted civilly to you.

 

[Lesh]

A trust fund is assets held by trustee for a beneficiary. In the case of soc sec, the only way for the beneficiary to
"get' the assets is to tax themselves. Or accrue more debt. Or cut govt spending, which is not happening BECAUSE we will have to pay soc sec from general revenue. Now had the soc taxes that were collected and not immediately spend paying benefts been invested is say ..... Chinese govt debt, or equities or corp bonds or even real estate ..... that would been a trust. Simply buying debt the taxpayer is responsible for paying anyway is not purchasing anything that is actually owed to the taxpayer.

And why are you being such a asshole. I've posted civilly to you.

All word salad..

What is the Social Security Trust Fund?

Back in the early 80s it became obvious that population an increased longevity meant that Social Security would not be able to meet it's obligations in the future without increasing payroll taxes.

The solution they came up with was to increase Social Security payroll taxes to cover that future shortfall. The METHOD they used was to use the excess payroll tax to purchase Treasury Bills which when redeemed (yes out of the General Fund) would make up the shortfall. It was a way to BORROW .

Since there is no "account" into which excess funds could be saved...it was essentially the only means to HAVE a Trust FunT
It also allowed Reagan (the Great Tax Cutter) to to raise taxes bigly on the middle class and poor. It was a compromise that worked pretty well as far as it went. In 2035 or so those T Bills will have all been redeemed and the Trust Fund will be exhausted. At that point payroll taxes will be able to pay 75% of the Social Security obligations. Fixing THAT problem is another issue (see my last statement below)

Now we have "conservatives" whining that they don't want to honor those Treasury Bills and pay back what was borrowed. Fuck em. We can and we will.

Now as far as that 25% Gap I mentioned above...currently payroll taxes are only taken on the first $123K any worker makes.

Lift that cap and that problem goes away without having to reduce benefits at all. This of course would mean that the wealthy (who have been getting tax cuts for decades) would have to pay a small per cent of their rather large income...which they will fight tooth and nail

 

[bendog]

All word salad..

What is the Social Security Trust Fund?

Back in the early 80s it became obvious that population an increased longevity meant that Social Security would not be able to meet it's obligations in the future without increasing payroll taxes.

The solution they came up with was to increase Social Security payroll taxes to cover that future shortfall. The METHOD they used was to use the excess payroll tax to purchase Treasury Bills which when redeemed (yes out of the General Fund) would make up the shortfall. It was a way to BORROW .

Since there is no "account" into which excess funds could be saved...it was essentially the only means to HAVE a Trust FunT
It also allowed Reagan (the Great Tax Cutter) to to raise taxes bigly on the middle class and poor. It was a compromise that worked pretty well as far as it went. In 2035 or so those T Bills will have all been redeemed and the Trust Fund will be exhausted. At that point payroll taxes will be able to pay 75% of the Social Security obligations. Fixing THAT problem is another issue (see my last statement below)

Now we have "conservatives" whining that they don't want to honor those Treasury Bills and pay back what was borrowed. Fuck em. We can and we will.

Now as far as that 25% Gap I mentioned above...currently payroll taxes are only taken on the first $123K any worker makes.

Lift that cap and that problem goes away without having to reduce benefits at all. This of course would mean that the wealthy (who have been getting tax cuts for decades) would have to pay a small per cent of their rather large income...which they will fight tooth and nail

word salad? roflmao at u. Stick with the topic. YOu said there was a trust fund. There is not a trust fund. A beneficary to a TF has a legal right to SUE both the trustee and the holder of the assets to get the benefit of the trust. In this case the holder of the assets is the same as the holder: the US taxpayer.

As to the rest of your post:

The cap is set at 147K or so. It's not going to totally eliminated. Even the dems failed to raise taxes on those making over 500K. Maybe if the moderate dems in the senate actually passed budget reform rather than the progressive plan that is never going to pass, that might change

But I don't think that taxes can be raised enough to simply "solve" the problem. The current program deficit will simply be bigger for the millennial gen. G5000 is right that the full retirement age has to go up, but if we do that we would still have to include expanded SSDI and medicare for people who physically can't work that long. How to raise that revenue is the vexing question.

 

[FA_Q2]

word salad? roflmao at u. Stick with the topic. YOu said there was a trust fund. There is not a trust fund. A beneficary to a TF has a legal right to SUE both the trustee and the holder of the assets to get the benefit of the trust. In this case the holder of the assets is the same as the holder: the US taxpayer.

As to the rest of your post:

The cap is set at 147K or so. It's not going to totally eliminated. Even the dems failed to raise taxes on those making over 500K. Maybe if the moderate dems in the senate actually passed budget reform rather than the progressive plan that is never going to pass, that might change

But I don't think that taxes can be raised enough to simply "solve" the problem. The current program deficit will simply be bigger for the millennial gen. G5000 is right that the full retirement age has to go up, but if we do that we would still have to include expanded SSDI and medicare for people who physically can't work that long. How to raise that revenue is the vexing question.

Vexing mostly because the argument is always over tax rates when tax rates seem to be immaterial:

 

[Lesh]

Stick with the topic. YOu said there was a trust fund.

And I explained how it was constructed.

 

[kaz]

When you file your taxes, do you take all the legitimate deductions? The gov't in wallowing in debt that your children and grandchildren will have to pay. Why not skip all the deductions?

Or your tax refund. Why not send that back, since it would help with the debt and cover current gov't spending so others don't have to pay for them in coming years.


My drawing SS is the same thing. The money they took from me is available and I will draw it. Your silly name-calling will not change that.

We were discussing how you saved shit now you want government checks from the government when they SPENT IT AS IT CAME IN LIKE EVERY OTHER TAX. None of this has anything to do with that you want to live on your children's money forcibly confiscated by government.

None of this has ANYTHING to do with that, Howdy Doody. Did you reply to the wrong post, greedy bastard who wants to live on other people's money?

 

[kaz]

And I explained how it was constructed.

No money was saved, you are full of shit. No money = no trust fund. Go clean up, you peed yourself again

 

[WinterBorn]

We were discussing how you saved shit now you want government checks from the government when they SPENT IT AS IT CAME IN LIKE EVERY OTHER TAX. None of this has anything to do with that you want to live on your children's money forcibly confiscated by government.

None of this has ANYTHING to do with that, Howdy Doody. Did you reply to the wrong post, greedy bastard who wants to live on other people's money?

Once the government takes your money, it is theirs. They offer it and I take it.

And the national debt will be a burden on your children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren. And yet, you do your absolute best to pay as little as +you can in taxes.

 

[WinterBorn]

No money was saved, you are full of shit. No money = no trust fund. Go clean up, you peed yourself again

Speaking of no money saved, how do you plan to survive during retirement? Or is it your plan to work until you die!?

 

[kaz]

Why do you take a tax refund? The money was in the hands of the government. Just because it was supposed to be yours, it is stealing from your children to ask for it back. When the government takes something from you and promises to return it, you're a thief if you actually accept it.

That's exactly the argument you're making.

If I believe the government didn't save any of your money (factually it is not in question, it didn't), then I should not take a tax refund when I overpay my taxes.

Explain, I don't get it. How does A lead to B?

 

[kaz]

Once the government takes your money, it is theirs. They offer it and I take it.

And the national debt will be a burden on your children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren. And yet, you do your absolute best to pay as little as +you can in taxes.

LOL, the winter snow is freezing your brain. What a stupid pot.

- You take a check of other peoples money
- I don't give government money

Those are equal? OMG you're a brainless simp

 

[kaz]

Are you going to take Social Security when eligible? Of course you are. Don't lie. You're a hypocrite.

Again, equating this from my saying there is no trust fund and your check contains zero dollars of the money you saved implies what, jackass? This doesn't make sense in any way. So walk me through it, scarecrow

 

[kaz]

It is insurance. Do you think an insurance company sits of you premiums until they have to spend it? No! They invest that money and use the profits to run their company.

It is not insurance. Insurance doesn't send you a monthly check. You send THEM a monthly check. You're more confused than the leftists. Calling social security "insurance" is retarded. What insurance company sends you a monthly check? Name them

 

[kaz]

Why wife's SS benefits at her 66 year retirement age is less than I can take for early retirement at 62. For the first 10 years of our marriage she was a stay at home mother.

My wife was a stay at home mother too. It's a big sacrifice, she had a degree from a great school in biochemistry. We gave up her income for about 15 years. Bless your for making that choice for your kids. But that doesn't change that government never saved a dime of your money, social security is just like any other welfare program

 

[tahuyaman]

The GOP keeps trying to “set the stage” for dumping it

No they don't. But just for entertainment purposes, tell us all how?

 

[Lesh]

No they don't. But just for entertainment purposes, tell us all how?

Read the garbage posted on this thread dumbass

 

[WinterBorn]

It is not insurance. Insurance doesn't send you a monthly check. You send THEM a monthly check. You're more confused than the leftists. Calling social security "insurance" is retarded. What insurance company sends you a monthly check? Name them

Every insurance company. If you pay the premiums, and then qualify, they send you a check. Every insurance company that has disability insurance will send you a check if you become disabled.

You might want to actually know what you are talking about before you call someone retarded.