Should the Social Security and Medicare Age be Raised

[Blues Man]

Basically you'll say anything

There is not dime one in the so called SS "Trust Fund"

Your money is not there, it never was there and you're stupid enough to trust the fucking government to give your money that they took for your own good back to you.

 

[Blues Man]

Bullshit!
Social Security's tax revenue is, by law, invested in special U.S. Treasury securities. As with all Treasury bonds, the federal government can spend the proceeds on a variety of programs. But as with all bondholders, Treasury has to pay the money back, with interest. Social Security redeems the securities to pay benefits.
The notion is that the government is raiding or even stealing from Social Security and leaving it with nothing but IOUs. But the government has always made full repayment, and the interest increases Social Security's assets, to the tune of $76.1 billion in 2020.

Gullible you are

 

[Lesh]

There is not dime one in the so called SS "Trust Fund"

Your money is not there, it never was there and you're stupid enough to trust the fucking government to give your money that they took for your own good back to you.

So Treasury Bills are not real?

 

[bendog]

There is not dime one in the so called SS "Trust Fund"

Your money is not there, it never was there and you're stupid enough to trust the fucking government to give your money that they took for your own good back to you.

There was never a lock box that actually held billions of dollars, and if we literally took billions of dollars out of the economy, growth would collapse. The money was used to buy general debt bonds. In the Reagan era, taxes were raised to make Soc Sec and Medicare solvent for 45 years, on the assumption our politicians today would not be so STUPID to run up deficits with tax cuts and progressive dreams and the military. And now Machin and Siena (and other moderates) are now Red Bern's angst because they say we should reduce deficits. LOL

 

[Blues Man]

So Treasury Bills are not real?

If they were actual treasury bills they would be real but they aren't.

They are a fictitious class of bills that only the government can buy from itself.

It's just a fudge factor to cook the books and you fell for it.

 

[bendog]

So Treasury Bills are not real?

Real, but to use them we have to buy them back with general revenue funds.

 

[Blues Man]

There was never a lock box that actually held billions of dollars, and if we literally took billions of dollars out of the economy, growth would collapse. The money was used to buy general debt bonds. In the Reagan era, taxes were raised to make Soc Sec and Medicare solvent for 45 years, on the assumption our politicians today would not be so STUPID to run up deficits with tax cuts and progressive dreams and the military. And now Machin and Siena (and other moderates) are now Red Bern's angst because they say we should reduce deficits. LOL

No the money is used to buy a fictitious bond that only the government can buy from itself.

You and I cannot but the same bonds that supposedly are in the SS "trust fund".

It's a way to cook the books and if any of us ever tried something like that in a pension plan we'd be thrown in jail

 

[bendog]

they are bonds of general fund debt payable to social security

The only "fiction" is that unless social security taxes collect enough each year to pay soc sec benefits each year, we have to use general funds to pay benefits

The temptation will be to just have the Fed buy more general obligation debt to pay benefits. But that could be inflationary .... of course inflation makes debt worrth less

 

[Lesh]

Real, but to use them we have to buy them back with general revenue funds.

OK...and?

 

[tahuyaman]

Link please or you're a liar. I posted a fact-check, you post lies.

What was incorrect? Prior to the LBJ administration there was a separate and dedicated Social Security trust fund. During the LBJ administration that trust fund money was thrown into the general budget.

 

[Lesh]

The only "fiction" is that unless social security taxes collect enough each year to pay soc sec benefits each year, we have to use general funds to pay benefits

Because that money was BORROWED in the first place. Are you against paying your bills?

Newsflash...there is no other mechanism to MAKE a Trust Fund other than borrowing and paying back via Treasury Securities

 

[bendog]

Because that money was BORROWED in the first place. Are you against paying your bills?

Newsflash...there is no other mechanism to MAKE a Trust Fund other than borrowing and paying back via Treasury Securities

Well to "pay them back" you either have to raise taxes, cut spending or find new debt. the latter option seems to be the solution of both parties.

Although, simply eliminating the income cap on taxes would do the trick. And that would eliminate any need to "pay back" the debt held by soc sec.

there is no real trust fund, never was

 

[Nova78]

Gullible you are

ss is going nowhere this urban myth has been going around for decades.

 

[Lesh]

Well to "pay them back" you either have to raise taxes, cut spending or find new debt. the latter option seems to be the solution of both parties.

Although, simply eliminating the income cap on taxes would do the trick. And that would eliminate any need to "pay back" the debt held by soc sec.

there is no real trust fund, never was

The first sentence of the last paragraph is accurate

The second sentence is bullshit

And yes Treasury Bills are real and need to be paid back. That IS the Trust Fund

 

[WorldWatcher]

[Off Topic]

So because of this thread I walked into my Credit Union yesterday and checked with a service representative. Showed her my membership card and asked if she could pull up my account balances and print it for me. No problem. Once handed the sheet I asked to see the vault where my money was stored.

She got the weirdest look on her face.

[/Off Topic]

WW

 

[beagle9]

Social security is designed to keep people dependent on the government

Example here have shown that even using returns below the 50 year averages of the stock market that even a person with a modest income , if he had control of his own and his employers SS contributions could retire wealthy and actually be able to leave a significant inheritance to his familt

How is SS designed to keep people dependent on the government, when all it is supposed to be is a retirement plan for citizen's who have paid into it all their lives while working a job ??? The problem is how it is being raided, and then the citizen's are getting screwed over in the end because the return sucks when it's time to retire. Now it's correct that people should absolutely not rely on SS only for their retirement, but it's a shame after paying in all of those years that the citizen gets screwed over by the government in a corrupt (as Ray calls it "ponsi scheme").

 

[Lesh]

ss is going nowhere this urban myth has been going around for decades.

The GOP keeps trying to “set the stage” for dumping it

 

[beagle9]

The GOP keeps trying to “set the stage” for dumping it

Dumping it means that there would be a replacement of some kind I'm guessing, but I hope that doesn't end up working out like we've seen with healthcare debates in the past. Funny how all the debates just went away even during Covid, where as we haven't heard any new plans for an efficient affordable healthcare plan that doesn't discriminate based on any American's pre-existing conditions, one's income or one's profile in life.

MHC-QAAA - (make healthcare quality and affordable again).

 

[Lesh]

Dumping it means that there would be a replacement of some kind I'm guessing, but I hope that doesn't end up working out like we've seen with healthcare debates in the past. Funny how all the debates just went away even during Covid, where as we haven't heard any new plans for an efficient affordable healthcare plan that doesn't discriminate based on any American's pre-existing conditions, one's income or one's profile in life.

MHC-QAAA - (make healthcare quality and affordable again).

That's the GOP. Their "plan" is always no plan. Let corporations take over

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

How is SS designed to keep people dependent on the government, when all it is supposed to be is a retirement plan for citizen's who have paid into it all their lives while working a job ??? The problem is how it is being raided, and then the citizen's are getting screwed over in the end because the return sucks when it's time to retire. Now it's correct that people should absolutely not rely on SS only for their retirement, but it's a shame after paying in all of those years that the citizen gets screwed over by the government in a corrupt (as Ray calls it "ponsi scheme").

It is a dependency on government since it's government that provides and has control over it. I'm pretty safe but the generation after me is going to have to make some hard decisions. The money simply isn't going to be there.

If we lift the ceiling then it's only fair we let those who contribute the most get the most back, a zero sum gain. If we lift the age to collect many who have physically challenging jobs will never make it to retirement age, and again we'd have to put them on disability. If we allow more immigration so they could support the program we will soon be over populated with people who think third world style that will eventually be our government leaders.

That's why I say the only logical solution is to transfer our retirement to private funds. It won't happen overnight and there would have to be age restrictions for those who qualify, but in return we won't have to do anything drastic that would cause a lot of strife and put some people in a bad situation.


My idea is it would work nearly the exact same way as we have now. You would have mandatory payroll deductions. Instead of government keeping the money for your retirement, your employer would have to send your contribution and his matching contribution to the company who you chose to handle your funds. The companies allowed to participate would have to be approved by the federal government. There would be a very high ceiling as to how much you can additionally contribute to your fund tax free.

Then you can choose what age to retire. Like our current IRA's, you would then pay taxes on your withdrawals.