Should there be mandatory training before you can purchase a firearm?

[AVG-JOE]

No.

The reference to the 1820's is a flippant reminder that things change.

400 years ago even the white people were owned by their good, Christian king.

Things change.

The choice is to be part of the conversation that foments the change, or be an uncompromising, hard-headed conservative.

I understand that ...But, my point is the same either way (thanks for the opportunity).

My point is I have no more desire to discuss what you think is appropriate slavery ...
As I have the desire to discuss what you think is appropriate gun control.

I am not asking you for anything (more rights nor gun control).
I have the right to bear the arms I currently own.
You have nothing I am interested in entertaining in regards to slavery nor gun control.

If you want to threaten my rights ... That's why the Founding Fathers put the Second Amendment in the Constitution.
I was just asking why you somehow think your desires to negotiate gun control would be any different than someone else's desire to negotiate slavery?

Absolutely. Slavery is wrong and shouldn't exist while gun regulations are necessary and already exist.

As I said, We The People already agree that nobody but the military should have access to bazookas and surface-to-air missiles, no matter how sane they can prove themselves to be.

The discussion has ALWAYS been about the list of weapons available. I think that the AR-15 should join the list of prohibited weapons. I'm finding that a LOT of American voters agree with me.

Besides... if you truly weren't interested in discussing this, you wouldn't be posting in this or any other gun discussion.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The choice remains... join the discussion with some flexibility on things, or get dragged kicking and screaming like a spoiled republican in to a progressive future any way.

Things change.

Give up the AR-15 and keep hand guns and hunting rifles.
Submit to extensive background checks and obtain hassle free gun sales across state lines.

​

Things change.​

 

[AVG-JOE]

So?

In eighteen-twenty-something the SC ruled that some Americans could own other Americans..... Things change.

The trick is to be in on the conversation ​

Conversations about what ... There is a 14th Amendment to the Constitution.
There is a Second Amendment to the Constitution as well.

We are not asking for something ... We already have a Constitutionally protected right to bear arms.
Would you like to have a conversation about what kind of slavery you would like to consider as being okay?

.​

We, The People already regulate the list of firearms that are available. You can't go to a pawn shop and buy a bazooka and there is no reason that the AR-15 can't be added to that list if enough Americans vote to make it so.

We, the People already regulate who can own guns in America. There are plenty of people, sorted both by past behavior and by class who are forced to buy their weapons without submitting to a background check via private sale. This is certainly not the root of all gun evil in America, but it does account for a measurable percentage if the problem.

There is no Constitutional reason that the "Gunshow Loophole" can't be closed and that the AR-15 can't be added to the EXISTING list o' prohibited weapons.

`​

Joe, what problem does your suggestion solve?

You think criminals will abide by the ban or regulation?

Highly doubtful

You think the ban or regulation will stop suicide.

Very suspect.

I’ve just listed over 99% of all gun related deaths.

So what is this problem that I am supposed to solve by allowing more bans and regulations?

Joe?

What is it?

Of all the shootings that really make an impact in the news, the AR-15 or something similar has played a starring role.

Of all the shootings that really make an impact in the news, crazy sons o' bitches make up the supporting cast.

As a gun owner and tax paying voter, I am so willing to give up my access to weapons purposed solely for the military, as well as, both submit to and pay for, extensive background checks, if doing so will reduce the number of shootings that really make an impact on the news. Because every shooting that really makes an impact on the news give fuel to the whackos who want to regulate guns way beyond removing military purposed weapons and heavy background checks.

Shame The Devil and tell the truth, the assault weapons ban imposed in the 90's had a positive impact on the issue fomenting this discussion.

`​

 

[Kondor3]

...And you have not yet identified what sensible gun control accomplishes? Please start at some point!

Sure I have...

Sensible gun control will shrink the illicit firearms marketplace with each passing year over a generation or so until that marketplace dries up.

---------------------

Law abiding folks keep their guns.

But they keep them by conforming to Federal -level vetting, licensing, registration, training and other related standards.

No more State -level loopholes and varying requirements from one jurisdiction to another.

Firearms owners would meet the same criteria and bear the same responsibilities across the board throughout the Nation.

It's coming.

It's just a matter of when.

And that "when" is probably the next time that Democrats control all three branches of the Federal government simultaneously.

Recent events have served to convert an Electorate Short Attention Span to a Long-Term Voter Memory on this subject.

Starting with the rejection of Vote Whores who take NRA lobbying and campaign funding money.

The Nation has suffered one too many massacres of school children to turn back now.

 

[Pop23]

So?

In eighteen-twenty-something the SC ruled that some Americans could own other Americans..... Things change.

The trick is to be in on the conversation ​

Conversations about what ... There is a 14th Amendment to the Constitution.
There is a Second Amendment to the Constitution as well.

We are not asking for something ... We already have a Constitutionally protected right to bear arms.
Would you like to have a conversation about what kind of slavery you would like to consider as being okay?

.​

We, The People already regulate the list of firearms that are available. You can't go to a pawn shop and buy a bazooka and there is no reason that the AR-15 can't be added to that list if enough Americans vote to make it so.

We, the People already regulate who can own guns in America. There are plenty of people, sorted both by past behavior and by class who are forced to buy their weapons without submitting to a background check via private sale. This is certainly not the root of all gun evil in America, but it does account for a measurable percentage if the problem.

There is no Constitutional reason that the "Gunshow Loophole" can't be closed and that the AR-15 can't be added to the EXISTING list o' prohibited weapons.

`​

Joe, what problem does your suggestion solve?

You think criminals will abide by the ban or regulation?

Highly doubtful

You think the ban or regulation will stop suicide.

Very suspect.

I’ve just listed over 99% of all gun related deaths.

So what is this problem that I am supposed to solve by allowing more bans and regulations?

Joe?

What is it?

Of all the shootings that really make an impact in the news, the AR-15 or something similar has played a starring role.

Of all the shootings that really make an impact in the news, crazy sons o' bitches make up the supporting cast.

As a gun owner and tax paying voter, I am so willing to give up my access to weapons purposed solely for the military, as well as, both submit to and pay for, extensive background checks, if doing so will reduce the number of shootings that really make an impact on the news. Because every shooting that really makes an impact on the news give fuel to the whackos who want to regulate guns way beyond removing military purposed weapons and heavy background checks.

Shame The Devil and tell the truth, the assault weapons ban imposed in the 90's had a positive impact on the issue fomenting this discussion.

`​

And you have yet to detail a single life this saves. Not one. And the good purpose it serves?

Might make a few folks feel better?

Things change but one constant always remains.

To some a vote is better than a life.

 

[BlackSand]

Absolutely. Slavery is wrong and shouldn't exist while gun regulations are necessary and already exist.

...

So are you saying that if slavery already existed ... It would be appropriate to discuss what kind of slavery is acceptable to allow?

You said slavery is wrong and shouldn't exist ... Yet I didn't ask you if you thought it was wrong nor whether or not it should exist.
I asked you if you were interested in discussing what someone else may think is reasonable or acceptable slavery.

The point I am making is that it is no more acceptable to discuss how you like to limit my rights.
I don't care if you have done it before ... I don't care if you think it is a good idea now.

I am not going to pretend the Second nor the 14th Amendment exist as a bargaining tool for your personal desires.

.​

 

[Pop23]

...And you have not yet identified what sensible gun control accomplishes? Please start at some point!

Sure I have...

Sensible gun control will shrink the illicit firearms marketplace with each passing year over a generation or so until that marketplace dries up.

---------------------

Law abiding folks keep their guns.

But they keep them by conforming to Federal -level vetting, licensing, registration, training and other related standards.

No more State -level loopholes and varying requirements from one jurisdiction to another.

Firearms owners would meet the same criteria and bear the same responsibilities across the board throughout the Nation.

It's coming.

It's just a matter of when.

And that "when" is probably the next time that Democrats control all three branches of the Federal government simultaneously.

Recent events have served to convert an Electorate Short Attention Span to a Long-Term Voter Memory on this subject.

The Nation has suffered one too many massacres of school children to go back now.

The notion you stop school shootings by banning bump sticks or AR style rifles is absurd. That’s been demonstrated. It is the use of SSRI medication on our youth that causes these. That’s been demonstrated.

Unless you ban ALL guns, which is the ultimate goal, you’re just pissing in the wind.

 

[BlackSand]

Of all the shootings that really make an impact in the news, the AR-15 or something similar has played a starring role.

...

Of all the roofing tools ... The nail gun has become more prevalent.
Probably because it works ... And if you ban the nail gun ... They will go back to using an Estwing.

.​

 

[Kondor3]

...The notion you stop school shootings by banning bump sticks or AR style rifles is absurd. That’s been demonstrated. It is the use of SSRI medication on our youth that causes these. That’s been demonstrated. Unless you ban ALL guns, which is the ultimate goal, you’re just pissing in the wind.

No more excuses.

No more 'alternative approaches'.

It's time to begin drying-up the illicit firearms marketplace.

You're going to keep your guns, but you're going to conform to new standards regardless of what State you live in.

It's time to begin doing a much better job of keeping firearms out of the hands of those who should not have them.

You(r side) is the one pi$$ing in the wind nowadays, with your backs against the wall of Public Opinion.

See you at the voting booth.

 

[BlackSand]

The notion you stop school shootings by banning bump sticks or AR style rifles is absurd. That’s been demonstrated. It is the use of SSRI medication on our youth that causes these. That’s been demonstrated.

Unless you ban ALL guns, which is the ultimate goal, you’re just pissing in the wind.

Watch the ball Pop ... The second most widely used firearm in school shootings is the semi-automatic handgun.
If they ban the AR-15 to stop school shootings ... The semi-automatic handgun would be next in line.

Not interested in letting them continue any further ... It's not about the crazy people shooting up schools ... It's about the firearms.

Now ... They may either lie to you and say it isn't ... Or be naïve enough to think that's not what they are asking for ...
In either case ... I am not interested in their nefarious attempt to further limit my freedoms.
If they want to discuss it ... They better arm themselves.

.​

 

[iceberg]

The choice remains... join the discussion with some flexibility on things, or get dragged kicking and screaming like a spoiled republican in to a progressive future any way.

Things change.

Give up the AR-15 and keep hand guns and hunting rifles.
Submit to extensive background checks and obtain hassle free gun sales across state lines.

​

Things change.​

yea, this is flexible.

only it's not the AR the left is now after. since they FINALLY realized the AR is *NOT* an automatic weapon but semi, like most all rifles, they now want all semi automatic rifles gone.

good luck with that.

 

[iceberg]

Of all the shootings that really make an impact in the news, the AR-15 or something similar has played a starring role.

Of all the shootings that really make an impact in the news, crazy sons o' bitches make up the supporting cast.

As a gun owner and tax paying voter, I am so willing to give up my access to weapons purposed solely for the military, as well as, both submit to and pay for, extensive background checks, if doing so will reduce the number of shootings that really make an impact on the news. Because every shooting that really makes an impact on the news give fuel to the whackos who want to regulate guns way beyond removing military purposed weapons and heavy background checks.

Shame The Devil and tell the truth, the assault weapons ban imposed in the 90's had a positive impact on the issue fomenting this discussion.

`​

actually the handgun is the weapon of choice but that never seems to matter in these discussions.

and most of those crazies are on anti-depressants and other drugs. maybe we need to look into that instead as there is a correlation between these being used by doctors and gun crimes going up.

and as a tax payer and gun owner, i am not going to give up any freedom people feel they need to take by force.

*IF DOING SO* would reduce. we don't know if it would. we have a gun ban previously over these heinous AR15s and could draw no valid conclusion if anything changed at all.

and what positive impact did that ban have? all i've read show you can't really tell. enlighten me.

 

[Pop23]

The notion you stop school shootings by banning bump sticks or AR style rifles is absurd. That’s been demonstrated. It is the use of SSRI medication on our youth that causes these. That’s been demonstrated.

Unless you ban ALL guns, which is the ultimate goal, you’re just pissing in the wind.

Watch the ball Pop ... The second most widely used firearm in school shootings is the semi-automatic handgun.
If they ban the AR-15 to stop school shootings ... The semi-automatic handgun would be next in line.

Not interested in letting them continue any further ... It's not about the crazy people shooting up schools ... It's about the firearms.

Now ... They may either lie to you and say it isn't ... Or be naïve enough to think that's not what they are asking for ...
In either case ... I am not interested in their nefarious attempt to further limit my freedoms.
If they want to discuss it ... They better arm themselves.

.​

What you write is the absolute truth. Our side has demonstrated the absurdity of their arguments time after time after time. Their only response is not unlike a child kicking and screaming that they are right and you are a poopy head.

 

[Pop23]

...The notion you stop school shootings by banning bump sticks or AR style rifles is absurd. That’s been demonstrated. It is the use of SSRI medication on our youth that causes these. That’s been demonstrated. Unless you ban ALL guns, which is the ultimate goal, you’re just pissing in the wind.

No more excuses.

No more 'alternative approaches'.

It's time to begin drying-up the illicit firearms marketplace.

You're going to keep your guns, but you're going to conform to new standards regardless of what State you live in.

It's time to begin doing a much better job of keeping firearms out of the hands of those who should not have them.

You(r side) is the one pi$$ing in the wind nowadays, with your backs against the wall of Public Opinion.

See you at the voting booth.

“See you in the voting booth”

You’re are either a moron or a child.

I’ve GIVEN you the ANSWER to ending school shootings. Your “alternative” is the absurd notion that killers will stop killing if you remove a tool from their multitude of options.

It’s a fools game.

Go vote. Your vote will be as deadly as any weapon unless your vote is to ban antidepressant use on our children.

The death toll WILL RISE, because YOU create the monsters that do the killing.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Who gets to certify the "mandatory training"? Would an 80 year old person in a crime infested area have to shell out $100 or $200 or even $500 for "training" when they could figure out how to load and aim a shotgun or a .22 in five minutes?

This is a good question.

I think that voluntary training is the training that sticks best, and that it's the background check that We, The Peeps should invest in most heavily.



And if the National Rifle Association was more concerned about gun education than they are about politics and protecting corporate profits, I might consider membership.

`​

"More concerned about gun education".

NRA Explore | Student Courses

NRA Explore | Firearms Training

NRA Training

NRA Explore | Eddie Eagle

Maybe you should consider some NRA education before pontificating about what the NRA should and shouldn't do.

Too easy - sure you can link to some training that they support or offer - it started out as an education and training operation. Unfortunately, under the leadership of every NRA president since Heston, the face of the organization has been a political, fear-mongering machine that I choose to have no part in that I can avoid.

Notice how I have to qualify that statement with "... that I can avoid."?

The political wing NRA is so steeped in the political fortunes of the gun industry that I cannot participate in gun ownership without supporting the organization.

That's truly fucked up.

I didn't link to "some training they support and offer". I linked to their links, because they offer SCADS of training, far too much for me to link to. The lists of available types of training, for every conceivable type of interest, go on and on.

And there is no "unfortunately" about the fact that they also have a separate foundation that works to protect the legal rights of gun owners, unless you're some left-leaning puswad who's "outraged" by the idea of people who are interested in protecting Second Amendment rights actually DARING to exercise their First Amendment rights to associate together and petition the government for redress of grievances and you want to pretend there's something sinister and evil about it.

Horrors! Gun owners and gun manufacturers have a coinciding interest in protecting the Second Amendment! It's practically the Illuminati meeting in back rooms to pull puppet strings! Panic! Run away and hide!

Or just fuck off. Y'know, whichever.

 

[Cecilie1200]

They know better.

Dems are all talk no do

Without school shootings, they’d have nothing, so expect them to continue

Without school shootings, the discussion would be over, Pop.

Which is exactly the point: without mass shootings, the left would have nothing to gin up a gun-grabbing conversation about.

Do you need a demon to chase so badly that even solving the problem by imagination and wishful thinking wouldn't satisfy you?

You have my pity.....​

Do you need to justify and dismiss leftist behavior that even rubbing your nose in it like a dog that's piddled on the carpet won't make you see it?

You have my contempt.

 

[2aguy]

So?

In eighteen-twenty-something the SC ruled that some Americans could own other Americans..... Things change.

The trick is to be in on the conversation ​

Conversations about what ... There is a 14th Amendment to the Constitution.
There is a Second Amendment to the Constitution as well.

We are not asking for something ... We already have a Constitutionally protected right to bear arms.
Would you like to have a conversation about what kind of slavery you would like to consider as being okay?

.​

We, The People already regulate the list of firearms that are available. You can't go to a pawn shop and buy a bazooka and there is no reason that the AR-15 can't be added to that list if enough Americans vote to make it so.

We, the People already regulate who can own guns in America. There are plenty of people, sorted both by past behavior and by class who are forced to buy their weapons without submitting to a background check via private sale. This is certainly not the root of all gun evil in America, but it does account for a measurable percentage if the problem.

There is no Constitutional reason that the "Gunshow Loophole" can't be closed and that the AR-15 can't be added to the EXISTING list o' prohibited weapons.

`​

Supreme Court decisions say you can't....the AR-15 civilian rifle is the most popular rifle in the United States.....D.C. v Heller, Caetano v. Massachusetts, and Miller all 3 and other cases say it is protected

It doesn't account for a large percentage of the problem.....democrats letting violent gun offenders out of jail causes the problem....not law abiding gun owners who own the AR-15 civilian rifle.

The only reason, dumb ass, that the anti gunners want to ban the AR-15 civilian rifle, the most popular rifle in the country, is so they can come back and use it to demand that all other semi automatic weapons be banned too...since they all operate the same way.....

They have already told us this at the CNN town hall, the D.C. march and in various towns across the country where they are already doing this...

 

[2aguy]

No.

The reference to the 1820's is a flippant reminder that things change.

400 years ago even the white people were owned by their good, Christian king.

Things change.

The choice is to be part of the conversation that foments the change, or be an uncompromising, hard-headed conservative getting dragged in to a future of progress kicking and screaming all the way.

The only future that happens when "progressives" take guns away from people is death camps and mass graves....we know the history, you either don't know the history or want to be part of that future.

 

[2aguy]

No.

The reference to the 1820's is a flippant reminder that things change.

400 years ago even the white people were owned by their good, Christian king.

Things change.

The choice is to be part of the conversation that foments the change, or be an uncompromising, hard-headed conservative.

I understand that ...But, my point is the same either way (thanks for the opportunity).

My point is I have no more desire to discuss what you think is appropriate slavery ...
As I have the desire to discuss what you think is appropriate gun control.

I am not asking you for anything (more rights nor gun control).
I have the right to bear the arms I currently own.
You have nothing I am interested in entertaining in regards to slavery nor gun control.

If you want to threaten my rights ... That's why the Founding Fathers put the Second Amendment in the Constitution.
I was just asking why you somehow think your desires to negotiate gun control would be any different than someone else's desire to negotiate slavery?

Absolutely. Slavery is wrong and shouldn't exist while gun regulations are necessary and already exist.

As I said, We The People already agree that nobody but the military should have access to bazookas and surface-to-air missiles, no matter how sane they can prove themselves to be.

The discussion has ALWAYS been about the list of weapons available. I think that the AR-15 should join the list of prohibited weapons. I'm finding that a LOT of American voters agree with me.

Besides... if you truly weren't interested in discussing this, you wouldn't be posting in this or any other gun discussion.

A lot of voters have no idea what they are voting for ...... so please, using uninformed people who don't understand the issue doesn't help your argument..... that you want to use uninformed people to vote you the power to take guns away from people is obvious, just don't piss on our legs and tell us it's raining when you think uninformed Americans are the standard we should use to give you power...

Do you think those Americans you speak of know that lawn mowers kill more people every year than mass shooters do?

Do you think those Americans know that knives kill more people each and every year than all mass shooters have killed over 35 years?

Do you think those Americans realize that if they give up the AR-15 civilian rifle, asshats like you are going to come back and take the semi automatic pistol they keep in their home for self defense?

Explain those things first, then tell me those Americans support your power grab.

 

[2aguy]

...The notion you stop school shootings by banning bump sticks or AR style rifles is absurd. That’s been demonstrated. It is the use of SSRI medication on our youth that causes these. That’s been demonstrated. Unless you ban ALL guns, which is the ultimate goal, you’re just pissing in the wind.

No more excuses.

No more 'alternative approaches'.

It's time to begin drying-up the illicit firearms marketplace.

You're going to keep your guns, but you're going to conform to new standards regardless of what State you live in.

It's time to begin doing a much better job of keeping firearms out of the hands of those who should not have them.

You(r side) is the one pi$$ing in the wind nowadays, with your backs against the wall of Public Opinion.

See you at the voting booth.

Yes....... put on that brown shirt, be loud and proud.... Jews....your political opposition...... we have heard you guys say that stuff before.....and we know exactly where it led....