Should we make the corporate tax rate 0%?

[rightwinger]

I like your idea that labor sells their time and are compensated for it, yet they still own the product of what they produced.

Can you think of any other examples of that phenomena, things you sell and yet still own?

Can I do that with my house? Sell it, and yet still own it? Wow, that would be a money maker.

Odd.....where did I say that?

I don't blame you for not listening while you talk, you're pretty inane.

Corporate taxes are just double taxes. They should be abolished.

Odd........where did I say that?

 

[dblack]

Nobody "gives" you a job. You provide labor and they make a profit off of that labor. It is workers who create wealth

Capitalists pay for your labor and then try to sell the results for a profit. If no one wants to buy, there is no profit. The work capitalists do is in predicting what people will want and need. If you think that work is negligible, try going without it.

And there lies our quandary. The careful balance between he value of labor and the value of capitalists

As it stands, we are willing to do anything as a society to protect the capitalists while ignoring the contribution of labor

"We" don't make personal economic decisions. Individuals do. Are you suggesting overriding personal decisions with state mandates?

 

[Toro]

It's certainly unfair, but government NOT taking money is never a "subsidy." To call it that is to declare that government is taking it's own money, it's not. It's taking money earned from someone else.

That's an ideological argument. I prefer to stay away from ideology.

A benefit given by the government to groups or individuals usually in the form of a cash payment or tax reduction. The subsidy is usually given to remove some type of burden and is often considered to be in the interest of the public.

Subsidy Definition | Investopedia

That makes no sense at all. First of all, businesses spent the money they are deducting, it's preposterous they can't deduct it when they spent it. Furthermore, manufacturing doesn't compete with services, and services have comparatively almost no depreciation anyway.

C'mon. You were in the top 10% of your class. You understand GAAP accounting, and that depreciation is expensed over time, not up front. You know better. After all, isn't what you argue the criticism conservatives level at the way government accounts for it's books, that all government expenditures are expensed up front rather than accrued as required under GAAP?

There should be no taxes for internal transfers domestically or internationally.

There should be when the transfer of intellectual property occurs between jurisdictions based upon so-called arms-length transactions between so-called independent subsidiaries at so-called market-based pricing transfer mechanisms for markets that don't exist. It's ridiculous.

Lower the corporate tax rate to 10%-15% and do away with this nonsense of special interests spending billions of dollars lobbying government for privilege and benefit.

 

[dblack]

It's certainly unfair, but government NOT taking money is never a "subsidy." To call it that is to declare that government is taking it's own money, it's not. It's taking money earned from someone else.

That's a rather pointless semantic argument, and not worth raising as long as we can agree that it's unfair and an abuse of the taxation power. The practice is used by the state to reward "friends" and punish enemies.

 

[OnePercenter]

Not 1 to 1.

Which employee expenses are not tax deductible?

Inflation is a persistent increase in the general price level of goods and services in an economy over a period of time. Goods are capped and employment costs are lessened.

When you

a.) jack up costs, then
b.) cap prices

You get shortages because businesses cannot make enough of a profit and capital investment is destroyed.

The reason why inflation happens in basket cases like Venezuela and Argentina who follow your policies is twofold. First, as costs go up, businesses raise prices where they can, since the government can't control everything, or incur the fines for rising prices. Second, the economy begins to slow, contract or even collapse, so the government borrows more. Eventually, they start printing money to meet their obligations.

The rate in Argentina and Venezuela today is 30%-40%.

MBA, Columbia Business School - Columbia University

Ah, "An Introduction to Economics" for the poets.

My mistake.

Republicans sure have dumbed you down!

I'll go even slower for you.

-One to one means you subtract the cost of an employee one dollar for every one dollar of taxes until you have no taxes. You can not currently do such. Then, the government sends you aid (subsidy) totaling any additional employee expenses.

-Inflation is a persistent increase in the general price level of goods and services in an economy over a period of time. Under my plan price levels for good and services are capped, so how can there be inflation.

 

[OnePercenter]

Not 1 to 1.

Which employee expenses are not tax deductible?



When you

a.) jack up costs, then
b.) cap prices

You get shortages because businesses cannot make enough of a profit and capital investment is destroyed.

The reason why inflation happens in basket cases like Venezuela and Argentina who follow your policies is twofold. First, as costs go up, businesses raise prices where they can, since the government can't control everything, or incur the fines for rising prices. Second, the economy begins to slow, contract or even collapse, so the government borrows more. Eventually, they start printing money to meet their obligations.

The inflation rate in Argentina and Venezuela today is 30%-40%.

MBA, Columbia Business School - Columbia University

Ah, "An Introduction to Economics" for the poets.

My mistake.

Columbia ---- Isn't that where Obama got scholarships as a foreign student?

snopes.com: Barack Obama Was a Foreign College Student?

 

[rightwinger]

Capitalists pay for your labor and then try to sell the results for a profit. If no one wants to buy, there is no profit. The work capitalists do is in predicting what people will want and need. If you think that work is negligible, try going without it.

And there lies our quandary. The careful balance between he value of labor and the value of capitalists

As it stands, we are willing to do anything as a society to protect the capitalists while ignoring the contribution of labor

"We" don't make personal economic decisions. Individuals do. Are you suggesting overriding personal decisions with state mandates?

Wouldn't a 0% corporate tax rate be a state mandate?

 

[OnePercenter]

Yeah right. Well that figures. A supporter of command and control economics regurgitating crap spewed by Bolshevik professors well insulated from the real world behind ivy covered walls.
Look. Stop the self puffery.
Anyone who has an MBA from an Ivy League School would neither have the time nor the inclination to post on a message board frequented by the great unwashed masses.
Or are you just slumming?
Look, command and control or central planning economics has never worked and will never work. Check your history.
I could have saved you $250,000 if you'd have asked questions about economy before you decided to attend Columbia.

Not all of us succomb to the left wing lies coming from the Ivy league schools. I have a Harvard MBA and one thing that I learned there is to think for myself and not to blindly buy into the left wing rhetoric and lies.

I was not a favorite student because I dared to challenge them on their marxist and socialist ideas.

But you are correct that those profs are insulated from the real world by those ivy covered walls and their tenured existence.

If you think for yourself then why do you continue to push RWN talking points as fact?

When you use Marxist and Socialist you promote yourself as a low thinker.

 

[kaz]

Odd.....where did I say that?

I don't blame you for not listening while you talk, you're pretty inane.

Corporate taxes are just double taxes. They should be abolished.

Odd........where did I say that?

I'm not interested in your word games, Comrade. You keep going on about how even though workers were paid an agreed upon wage, they created the wealth and they are getting ripped of because their capitalistic masters get to keep the profit.

 

[dblack]

And there lies our quandary. The careful balance between he value of labor and the value of capitalists

As it stands, we are willing to do anything as a society to protect the capitalists while ignoring the contribution of labor

"We" don't make personal economic decisions. Individuals do. Are you suggesting overriding personal decisions with state mandates?

Wouldn't a 0% corporate tax rate be a state mandate?

No. Corporate taxes are essentially payment for the special privileges granted by the corporate charter. We don't double tax ordinary businesses because they don't get these privileges. I, and others here, are suggesting removing the perks, along with the extra taxes. Let theses companies fend for themselves, on a level playing field.

 

[kaz]

That makes no sense at all. First of all, businesses spent the money they are deducting, it's preposterous they can't deduct it when they spent it. Furthermore, manufacturing doesn't compete with services, and services have comparatively almost no depreciation anyway.

C'mon. You were in the top 10% of your class. You understand GAAP accounting, and that depreciation is expensed over time, not up front. You know better. After all, isn't what you argue the criticism conservatives level at the way government accounts for it's books, that all government expenditures are expensed up front rather than accrued as required under GAAP?

I was referring to taxes, not GAAP. I don't have a problem with the idea of depreciation for financial statements. They are showing an asset on their books until it's written off anyway. I still don't get why you would compare manufacturing to services for this though. Services have generally very few assets to write off. My business is primarily services, but we do have in house production. Two companies I acquired had significant production assets, and I'm depreciating those. I bought another company that was all services and there were few assets, most of that I have to write off as goodwill.

I know you know this Toro, but for others reading, you can write off physical assets a lot faster than intangibles, like goodwill.

 

[rightwinger]

I don't blame you for not listening while you talk, you're pretty inane.

Corporate taxes are just double taxes. They should be abolished.

Odd........where did I say that?

I'm not interested in your word games, Comrade. You keep going on about how even though workers were paid an agreed upon wage, they created the wealth and they are getting ripped of because their capitalistic masters get to keep the profit.

What I complain about are laws that are written to ensure that more of that wealth is directed and maintained at the upper levels

Our society values capitalists more than it values labor

We are paying a price

 

[kaz]

It's certainly unfair, but government NOT taking money is never a "subsidy." To call it that is to declare that government is taking it's own money, it's not. It's taking money earned from someone else.

That's a rather pointless semantic argument, and not worth raising as long as we can agree that it's unfair and an abuse of the taxation power. The practice is used by the state to reward "friends" and punish enemies.

The concept of whether government is taking money from the business or the money belongs to government and it's taking it's own money is in no way a semantic argument, but it's a fundamental difference. And the left very much views it as the latter.

 

[kaz]

Odd........where did I say that?

I'm not interested in your word games, Comrade. You keep going on about how even though workers were paid an agreed upon wage, they created the wealth and they are getting ripped of because their capitalistic masters get to keep the profit.

What I complain about are laws that are written to ensure that more of that wealth is directed and maintained at the upper levels

Our society values capitalists more than it values labor

We are paying a price

Other than Marxist rhetoric, do you have anything to back that up?

 

[rightwinger]

"We" don't make personal economic decisions. Individuals do. Are you suggesting overriding personal decisions with state mandates?

Wouldn't a 0% corporate tax rate be a state mandate?

No. Corporate taxes are essentially payment for the special privileges granted by the corporate charter. We don't double tax ordinary businesses because they don't get these privileges. I, and others here, are suggesting removing the perks, along with the extra taxes. Let theses companies fend for themselves, on a level playing field.

Stop the double tax bullshit.......nobody is buying it

 

[rightwinger]

I'm not interested in your word games, Comrade. You keep going on about how even though workers were paid an agreed upon wage, they created the wealth and they are getting ripped of because their capitalistic masters get to keep the profit.

What I complain about are laws that are written to ensure that more of that wealth is directed and maintained at the upper levels

Our society values capitalists more than it values labor

We are paying a price

Other than Marxist rhetoric, do you have anything to back that up?

Lower tax rates for corporations, lower rates on capital gains, government subsidies, trade protections, protections of investments abroad

 

[dblack]

Odd........where did I say that?

I'm not interested in your word games, Comrade. You keep going on about how even though workers were paid an agreed upon wage, they created the wealth and they are getting ripped of because their capitalistic masters get to keep the profit.

What I complain about are laws that are written to ensure that more of that wealth is directed and maintained at the upper levels

Our society values capitalists more than it values labor

We are paying a price

In a free society we, as individuals, decide our relative values. Government, on the other hand is obligated to protect the rights of everyone equally, regardless of class, race, religion, etc... The state shouldn't be involved in class warfare or manipulating the economy toward specific ends. When it becomes involved, everyone with influence will seek to bend it toward their ends. And the wealthy will invariably have more influence. That's why, though it is obviously counter-intuitive to modern liberals, the only why to prevent policy that favors the rich is to keep government out of economic matters altogether.

 

[rightwinger]

I'm not interested in your word games, Comrade. You keep going on about how even though workers were paid an agreed upon wage, they created the wealth and they are getting ripped of because their capitalistic masters get to keep the profit.

What I complain about are laws that are written to ensure that more of that wealth is directed and maintained at the upper levels

Our society values capitalists more than it values labor

We are paying a price

In a free society we, as individuals, decide our relative values. Government, on the other hand is obligated to protect the rights of everyone equally, regardless of class, race, religion, etc... The state shouldn't be involved in class warfare or manipulating the economy toward specific ends. When it becomes involved, everyone with influence will seek to bend it toward their ends. And the wealthy will invariably have more influence. That's why, though it is obviously counter-intuitive to modern liberals, the only why to prevent policy that favors the rich is to keep government out of economic matters altogether.

Fine with me

Tax corporations at the same rate you tax individuals. We don't want the government to play favorites do we?

 

[Toro]

I'll go even slower for you.

-One to one means you subtract the cost of an employee one dollar for every one dollar of taxes until you have no taxes. You can not currently do such. Then, the government sends you aid (subsidy) totaling any additional employee expenses.

OK, this is how it works. Let's say that you have a business where the only expense is labour and your tax rate is 30%. Your P&L will look like this.

Revenues $100,000
Expenses $70,000
Income before taxes $30,000
Taxes $9,000
Net income after taxes $21,000

All labour income is written off against taxes. If labour costs $90,000, taxes fall to $3,000. If labour is $100,000, taxes are $0. Taxes are on profits, which are after all expenses, including labour.

So I'll ask again, what employee expenses are not written off?

-Inflation is a persistent increase in the general price level of goods and services in an economy over a period of time. Under my plan price levels for good and services are capped, so how can there be inflation.

Because, practically, it doesn't work, except perhaps in communist economies, and we all know how that turns out. If you cap prices and increase employee costs, either the business will go bankrupt or they will increase prices anyways and break the law. That's what is happening in Argentina and Venezuela today, and has happened over and over and over again by economic populists who have no idea how the price mechanism works.

 

[dblack]

Wouldn't a 0% corporate tax rate be a state mandate?

No. Corporate taxes are essentially payment for the special privileges granted by the corporate charter. We don't double tax ordinary businesses because they don't get these privileges. I, and others here, are suggesting removing the perks, along with the extra taxes. Let theses companies fend for themselves, on a level playing field.

Stop the double tax bullshit.......nobody is buying it

Not everyone understands it, granted, but it's not really that hard if you think about it. With ordinary businesses, taxes are levied on profits received by the owners. Corporate taxation treats the corporation itself as a "legal person", taxing the profits it accrues directly, and then taxes those gains again when the profits are disturbed to owners as income. As it stands, it's a reasonable concession for all the perks corporations receive from the state. But it's my view that those perks should end, along with the extra taxation.