Should we remove tax exempt status for Mosque?

[Kondor3]

The only way to withdraw nonprofit status from mosques while leaving it intact for other belief-systems is to withdraw legal recognition of the religious status of Islam.

Ain't going to happen. Just because a few unhinged rightwing nuts decided within the last decade that a religion that has existed over 1300 years, with over 1.6 billion followers world wide "isn't a religion" doesn't mean it "isn't a religion".

It's a pretty bad precedent to even think of setting - once you start deciding something isn't a religion, your own may be next.

You had better pray to Allah that you're right, Coyote, but if The People want it badly enough, it will happen... the legal devices are of no consequence.

Oh, and, to your 1.6 billion Muslims... so what? Your opposites counter with 2.2 billion Christians; mostly residing in regions far more advanced, economically and militarily and technologically and societally than your pals.

The people would have to overturn the Constitutions that protect every one of us American citizens.

You completely missed my point. It was not to set a "counter" of who is more or better or what. It's to point out that people like you don't get to decide what is or what isn't a religion, particularly when you are talking about faiths that originated over a thousand years before you were even concieved of.

MY PALS are any American citizens for whom you would try to deny their fundamental constitutional rights because you "don't like" them, not because they've done anything wrong under the law.

Yes, a fine speech... very nice... and quite probably stemming from honest conviction and goodwill...

But understand that the US Constitution is a living, breathing, adaptable document... not a suicide pact, in which we are obliged to harbor a viper in our midst, once identified.

In the event that a particular ideology proves sufficiently dangerous or hostile to The Republic and its People and its way of life, that threat-vector can and will be neutralized.

The question is merely one of: Is Islam - at large or in its fundamentalist manifestation - sufficiently dangerous or hostile, to warrant such treatment?

In extremis, when Constitutionality and Existential Safety are in adversarial positions, Safety wins, damned near every time.

It isn't anywhere near as much a matter of "not liking them" as it is perceiving their ideology as toxic to the health and order and well-being of the Republic and its People.

Should it be evaluated and assessed at a lethal level of toxicity, it will be dealt with in a singular and particular manner, custom-designed to address that particular danger.

Whether any of that should unfold may soon become a matter of earnest and lively National Discussion.

 

[S.J.]

I don't hate them, I just want their violence stopped and I should not have to support them financially with my tax dollars. If you want to, go ahead, nobody's stopping you, moron.

You're not supporting anyone with your tax dollars, you ignorant fuckstain, even generously assuming you PAY taxes. Do you understand the difference between giving someone money, and simply not taking money they already have? Or are you one of those no-info voters who thinks all income rightfully belongs to the government?

Churches are supported by voluntary donations. If you don't want your money supporting them, DON'T DONATE. It's that simple.

I am if they don't pay taxes themselves. You liberals just love to rail against businesses for not paying their "fair share" but if it's a terrorist organization, that's just fine with you.

Churches are now terrorist organizations?

No, mosques that preach jihad are.

I like the way you say, "Mosques that preach jihad", just as if you really believe there are any other kind. Maybe you think we all have brain cells that can be counted on one hand, like you, and we won't remember that you've already erroneously lumped all Muslims into one pile.

I'm talking about the ones that DO. Neither you, nor Coyote answered my question.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Our Constitution doesn't allow discrimination or favoritism toward any particular religion.

How about the Branch dividians? Heaven's Gate? The People's Temple? Scientology? Westboro Baptist Church?

What about them? I have no idea what the Branch Davidians did or did not do about their taxes. I wasn't their accountant. The People's Temple abided by the laws while they were in this country. Scientology still does, and is, if I remember correctly, a tax-exempt non-profit. Again, I'm not their accountant, so I can't say for sure. Ditto for Westboro.

Again, I point out that you're really not capable of wrapping your brain around "none of my fucking business as long as they obey the law". You're a bigot who thinks you should be able to pick and choose who gets rights and who doesn't according to your personal approval - GREAT conservative thinking, there - and you can't understand that the rest of us just aren't interested being bigots.

 

[S.J.]

Our Constitution doesn't allow discrimination or favoritism toward any particular religion.

How about the Branch dividians? Heaven's Gate? The People's Temple? Scientology? Westboro Baptist Church?

What about them?

Do you support their right to equal protection as religions?

 

[bornright]

I feel any religious group that pushes any political agenda should have their tax exemption removed.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You're not supporting anyone with your tax dollars, you ignorant fuckstain, even generously assuming you PAY taxes. Do you understand the difference between giving someone money, and simply not taking money they already have? Or are you one of those no-info voters who thinks all income rightfully belongs to the government?

Churches are supported by voluntary donations. If you don't want your money supporting them, DON'T DONATE. It's that simple.

I am if they don't pay taxes themselves. You liberals just love to rail against businesses for not paying their "fair share" but if it's a terrorist organization, that's just fine with you.

Churches are now terrorist organizations?

No, mosques that preach jihad are.

I like the way you say, "Mosques that preach jihad", just as if you really believe there are any other kind. Maybe you think we all have brain cells that can be counted on one hand, like you, and we won't remember that you've already erroneously lumped all Muslims into one pile.

I'm talking about the ones that DO. Neither you, nor Coyote answered my question.

No, Chuckles, you only just started differentiating, because it became obvious even to YOUR peabrain how fucking stupid you sounded.

We've answered your questions multiple times, and you just don't like the answer, because it's too common-sense and conservative for you: the laws apply to everyone equally, provided they obey the law. You keep trying to find some way to weasel out of this and say, "Ah ha, but what if I drop THIS name? I'm SURE you'll join me in being a judgemental bigot if I just drop THIS name!" Doesn't work.

 

[S.J.]

Our Constitution doesn't allow discrimination or favoritism toward any particular religion.

How about the Branch dividians? Heaven's Gate? The People's Temple? Scientology? Westboro Baptist Church?

What about them? I have no idea what the Branch Davidians did or did not do about their taxes. I wasn't their accountant. The People's Temple abided by the laws while they were in this country. Scientology still does, and is, if I remember correctly, a tax-exempt non-profit. Again, I'm not their accountant, so I can't say for sure. Ditto for Westboro.

Again, I point out that you're really not capable of wrapping your brain around "none of my fucking business as long as they obey the law". You're a bigot who thinks you should be able to pick and choose who gets rights and who doesn't according to your personal approval - GREAT conservative thinking, there - and you can't understand that the rest of us just aren't interested being bigots.

So, if the leadership tells the members to murder someone, and they do, the institution should be left alone because they didn't actually kill anybody?

 

[Arianrhod]

And how many times has that happened over the last, oh say, 50 years?

It usually only makes headlines when the kid dies. The most recent event was a couple of months ago:

Couple beat son to death so he would confess 'sins,' cops say | Fox News

"It only makes headlines if the kid dies"? Got anything to back up that opinion besides your opinion?

Like the link in the post you just quoted?

I didn't see anything in your link that it only makes headlines if the kid dies.

Do you expect the FBI to have eyes on every lunatic Christian cult?

 

[S.J.]

I am if they don't pay taxes themselves. You liberals just love to rail against businesses for not paying their "fair share" but if it's a terrorist organization, that's just fine with you.

Churches are now terrorist organizations?

No, mosques that preach jihad are.

I like the way you say, "Mosques that preach jihad", just as if you really believe there are any other kind. Maybe you think we all have brain cells that can be counted on one hand, like you, and we won't remember that you've already erroneously lumped all Muslims into one pile.

I'm talking about the ones that DO. Neither you, nor Coyote answered my question.

No, Chuckles, you only just started differentiating, because it became obvious even to YOUR peabrain how fucking stupid you sounded.

We've answered your questions multiple times, and you just don't like the answer, because it's too common-sense and conservative for you: the laws apply to everyone equally, provided they obey the law. You keep trying to find some way to weasel out of this and say, "Ah ha, but what if I drop THIS name? I'm SURE you'll join me in being a judgemental bigot if I just drop THIS name!" Doesn't work.

I noticed that aside from the childish personal attacks, you still can't answer the question. You're about as phony and hypocritical as they come.

 

[S.J.]

And how many times has that happened over the last, oh say, 50 years?

It usually only makes headlines when the kid dies. The most recent event was a couple of months ago:

Couple beat son to death so he would confess 'sins,' cops say | Fox News

"It only makes headlines if the kid dies"? Got anything to back up that opinion besides your opinion?

Like the link in the post you just quoted?

I didn't see anything in your link that it only makes headlines if the kid dies.

Do you expect the FBI to have eyes on every lunatic Christian cult?

You're ducking.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I feel any religious group that pushes any political agenda should have their tax exemption removed.

The law provides for non-profits to lose tax-exempt status by becoming political organizations. There are pretty set-in-stone guidelines for that. A liberal Christian publication lost its tax-exempt status for a year because it published an endorsement for Lyndon Johnson for President.

For example, a Catholic bishop can endorse a candidate personally . . . so long as he doesn't do it from the pulpit, and makes it clear that he's speaking for himself, not for the Church.

Churches are allowed to address social issues generally, as guidelines for living life as a Christian, but they don't get to tell people specifically who to vote for and not vote for.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Churches are now terrorist organizations?

No, mosques that preach jihad are.

I like the way you say, "Mosques that preach jihad", just as if you really believe there are any other kind. Maybe you think we all have brain cells that can be counted on one hand, like you, and we won't remember that you've already erroneously lumped all Muslims into one pile.

I'm talking about the ones that DO. Neither you, nor Coyote answered my question.

No, Chuckles, you only just started differentiating, because it became obvious even to YOUR peabrain how fucking stupid you sounded.

We've answered your questions multiple times, and you just don't like the answer, because it's too common-sense and conservative for you: the laws apply to everyone equally, provided they obey the law. You keep trying to find some way to weasel out of this and say, "Ah ha, but what if I drop THIS name? I'm SURE you'll join me in being a judgemental bigot if I just drop THIS name!" Doesn't work.

I noticed that aside from the childish personal attacks, you still can't answer the question. You're about as phony and hypocritical as they come.

Really? "The laws apply to everyone equally" was so vague in your eyes that you "noticed" I didn't answer the question?

Again, what you noticed is that you didn't like the answer, not that it wasn't there.

Oh, and FYI, "hypocrite" means advocating one thing while doing another. It doesn't mean "Someone I don't like because they treat me with contempt". Unless you can show where I have done something other than what I've advocated, I guess we'll just have to assume your stupid ass was, once again, blithering mindlessly.

Naught but what I'd expect from someone dumb enough to be a bigot.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Our Constitution doesn't allow discrimination or favoritism toward any particular religion.

How about the Branch dividians? Heaven's Gate? The People's Temple? Scientology? Westboro Baptist Church?

What about them? I have no idea what the Branch Davidians did or did not do about their taxes. I wasn't their accountant. The People's Temple abided by the laws while they were in this country. Scientology still does, and is, if I remember correctly, a tax-exempt non-profit. Again, I'm not their accountant, so I can't say for sure. Ditto for Westboro.

Again, I point out that you're really not capable of wrapping your brain around "none of my fucking business as long as they obey the law". You're a bigot who thinks you should be able to pick and choose who gets rights and who doesn't according to your personal approval - GREAT conservative thinking, there - and you can't understand that the rest of us just aren't interested being bigots.

So, if the leadership tells the members to murder someone, and they do, the institution should be left alone because they didn't actually kill anybody?

And the stupid keeps coming.

Newsflash, tardboy: telling people to murder someone is ILLEGAL. That means it falls outside the "obey the law" standard we keep trying to beat into that rock skull of yours.

 

[S.J.]

Our Constitution doesn't allow discrimination or favoritism toward any particular religion.

How about the Branch dividians? Heaven's Gate? The People's Temple? Scientology? Westboro Baptist Church?

What about them? I have no idea what the Branch Davidians did or did not do about their taxes. I wasn't their accountant. The People's Temple abided by the laws while they were in this country. Scientology still does, and is, if I remember correctly, a tax-exempt non-profit. Again, I'm not their accountant, so I can't say for sure. Ditto for Westboro.

Again, I point out that you're really not capable of wrapping your brain around "none of my fucking business as long as they obey the law". You're a bigot who thinks you should be able to pick and choose who gets rights and who doesn't according to your personal approval - GREAT conservative thinking, there - and you can't understand that the rest of us just aren't interested being bigots.

So, if the leadership tells the members to murder someone, and they do, the institution should be left alone because they didn't actually kill anybody?

And the stupid keeps coming.

Newsflash, tardboy: telling people to murder someone is ILLEGAL. That means it falls outside the "obey the law" standard we keep trying to beat into that rock skull of yours.

Fine, except you aren't willing to shut down the mosques who advocate violence. Now feel free to respond with another personal attack instead of substance.

 

[Arianrhod]

It usually only makes headlines when the kid dies. The most recent event was a couple of months ago:

Couple beat son to death so he would confess 'sins,' cops say | Fox News

"It only makes headlines if the kid dies"? Got anything to back up that opinion besides your opinion?

Like the link in the post you just quoted?

I didn't see anything in your link that it only makes headlines if the kid dies.

Do you expect the FBI to have eyes on every lunatic Christian cult?

You're ducking.

I'm asking you a follow-up question that you're clearly unequipped to answer. And we hadn't even gotten to Warren Jeffs...

 

[S.J.]

"It only makes headlines if the kid dies"? Got anything to back up that opinion besides your opinion?

Like the link in the post you just quoted?

I didn't see anything in your link that it only makes headlines if the kid dies.

Do you expect the FBI to have eyes on every lunatic Christian cult?

You're ducking.

I'm asking you a follow-up question that you're clearly unequipped to answer. And we hadn't even gotten to Warren Jeffs...

You're still ducking. Or maybe you're just unequipped to answer. Back up what you said, then I'll answer your question.

 

[Arianrhod]

Like the link in the post you just quoted?

I didn't see anything in your link that it only makes headlines if the kid dies.

Do you expect the FBI to have eyes on every lunatic Christian cult?

You're ducking.

I'm asking you a follow-up question that you're clearly unequipped to answer. And we hadn't even gotten to Warren Jeffs...

You're still ducking.

Your ignorance? True. It may not be contagious, but it's messy.

 

[Skull Pilot]

If they truly are non profit then they won't pay taxes will they?

There is no need for any special status

If you can't see that then you're the one who is not so bright

Property taxes.....payroll taxes....sales tax....
Just a few taxes that come to mind that aren't contingent on income or profit

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And all should be paid

Even churches and charities benefit from government services that we all have to pay for so they should too

They repay us with the work that they do in charities

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You might believe that I don't

Go ahead and remove all charities and let government tend to all of our needs. We all know that's the goal of the Progs.
Then see how much more of your paycheck disappears

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You think I'm some sort of progressive?

You couldn't be more wrong

Religion and charities are big business they should be treated as such

 

[S.J.]

I didn't see anything in your link that it only makes headlines if the kid dies.

Do you expect the FBI to have eyes on every lunatic Christian cult?

You're ducking.

I'm asking you a follow-up question that you're clearly unequipped to answer. And we hadn't even gotten to Warren Jeffs...

You're still ducking.

Your ignorance? True. It may not be contagious, but it's messy.

Can't you just admit you have nothing to back up your claim? I love how you liberals always resort to personal insults when you get called on your bullshit. It's all you ever have.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[1]

When the government exempts religions from laws it is violating the first amendment because laws that exempt religions from taxes are laws that respect the establishment of religion

There is no separation of church and state mentioned in the constitution

The government exempts non-profit organizations from taxes, because they DON'T MAKE A PROFIT TO TAX. You act like churches and religious organizations are the only groups who get that exemption. There are 1.5 million registered non-profit organizations in the US, according to the National Center for Charitable Statistics (NCCS).

And it is only a "violation of the First Amendment" if they don't extend that exemption impartially to ALL religious organizations who meet the requirements.

No business should be tax exempt even if that business is a charity

If a business truly is non profit then they need no special status they can file their taxes every year and show zero profit therefore pay no tax

By definition, charities AREN'T businesses.

But hey, you want to suck a bunch of money out of the Salvation Army to give to the federal government to fritter away? We'll send the homeless people to bunk at YOUR house.

If your objection is, "Ehrmagerd, the IRS has special administrative designations to allow them to keep track of who does and doesn't meet non-profit requirements, WE CAN'T HAVE NAMES FOR THINGS!" then you're not very bright.

If they truly are non profit then they won't pay taxes will they?

There is no need for any special status

If you can't see that then you're the one who is not so bright

There is a need for a special status, and that is to protect religious institutions from government intrusion, just as it's important to keep religious intrusion out of the government - it works both ways for the protection of both.

What kind of government intrusion?

Paying taxes? Or do you think that somehow the government will all of a sudden start trampling the first amendment rights of people who attend church?

And we already have religious intrusion in government we allow clergy to be vested with the power to call marriages legal. Funny how you separation of church and state people never seem to mention that

Religion is big business that's all it is