Since free college isn't free...what is wrong with actually paying it back?

[koshergrl]

I agree with you there. I'm not suggesting cutting all welfare. But the systems are loaded with abuse.

An example: In Maine, they instituted requirements to stay on the food stamp program. They were only aimed at childless adults.

They gave three options: have a job working at least 20 hours a week. Volunteer your time at least 20 hours per month, or be enrolled in a vocational program so you can enter a new career to work.

The outcome? Most of those adults dropped out of the SNAP's program. It seems it was not a necessity at all, again, the least path of resistance.

Well after all this time I think we can agree on something... Welfare reform is definitely necessary... The hows might be a different story

Let's reform it by getting rid of it.

Another genius... Great, lets play fantasy with your idea... What happens when you remove it?

People get off their asses. Families and communities step up to the plate and take care of their own, and the churches continue to do exactly what they're doing. Feeding the people is NOT the federal government's job. Their ONLY job is to protect the people and their God-given right to feed themselves.

You go around to all the shelters and programs that work to help our poor and tell them they are out of work and out of federal funding. Try it... Take a day to get off your ass and away from your forum, go to a few of these places and ask them how they feel about your great ideas. Ask a community representative how they feel about the increase in homeless, crime, and starving children... Ask the churches how they are going to handle the sole responsibility of taking care of our poor... I don't know why I waste my time engaging with you... I really don't care what fringe morons think

You're so fucking scared you might have to do something yourself to help people that you'll agree to ANYTHING if the feds will just take the money and deal with it themselves.

Again. Our federal government's job is not to feed people That is the job of their families and their home communities and their churches. We are a free people, and our constitution gives our federal government LIMITED powers. Feed your fucking self. When the feds get out of the way, it's not that hard.

 

[Slade3200]

I think Bernie supporters have already paid or are paying for their education... There support must reflect a willingness to allocate funds from their future tax payments to help future generations get their degrees... Imagine that

I think Bernie supporters have already paid or are paying for their education...

The 20-something Bernie supporters have not paid for their "degree" yet.

There support must reflect a willingness to allocate funds from their future tax payments

LOL!

They also aren't expecting a time machine to magically take them back to pay for their college, even if Bernies free college policy goes through... Which it won't with our congress

They also aren't expecting a time machine to magically take them back to pay for their college

Don't need a time machine for government to forgive the debt.

Is debt forgiveness part of the conversation? Did I miss something?

If he hasn't explicitly pushed for it, his supporters think he has....or will.

haha, OK... just cause you say so, i guess

 

[BULLDOG]

I think Bernie supporters have already paid or are paying for their education... There support must reflect a willingness to allocate funds from their future tax payments to help future generations get their degrees... Imagine that

I think Bernie supporters have already paid or are paying for their education...

The 20-something Bernie supporters have not paid for their "degree" yet.

There support must reflect a willingness to allocate funds from their future tax payments

LOL!

They also aren't expecting a time machine to magically take them back to pay for their college, even if Bernies free college policy goes through... Which it won't with our congress

They also aren't expecting a time machine to magically take them back to pay for their college

Don't need a time machine for government to forgive the debt.

Is debt forgiveness part of the conversation? Did I miss something?

If he hasn't explicitly pushed for it, his supporters think he has....or will.

So now you have a crystal ball that shows you the future? Come back when you have more than your imagination to back you up.

 

[Slade3200]

Well after all this time I think we can agree on something... Welfare reform is definitely necessary... The hows might be a different story

Let's reform it by getting rid of it.

Another genius... Great, lets play fantasy with your idea... What happens when you remove it?

People get off their asses. Families and communities step up to the plate and take care of their own, and the churches continue to do exactly what they're doing. Feeding the people is NOT the federal government's job. Their ONLY job is to protect the people and their God-given right to feed themselves.

You go around to all the shelters and programs that work to help our poor and tell them they are out of work and out of federal funding. Try it... Take a day to get off your ass and away from your forum, go to a few of these places and ask them how they feel about your great ideas. Ask a community representative how they feel about the increase in homeless, crime, and starving children... Ask the churches how they are going to handle the sole responsibility of taking care of our poor... I don't know why I waste my time engaging with you... I really don't care what fringe morons think

You're so fucking scared you might have to do something yourself to help people that you'll agree to ANYTHING if the feds will just take the money and deal with it themselves.

Again. Our federal government's job is not to feed people That is the job of their families and their home communities and their churches. We are a free people, and our constitution gives our federal government LIMITED powers. Feed your fucking self. When the feds get out of the way, it's not that hard.

Every heard of General Welfare?? I can't take your idiocracy today, don't respond to me anymore, i'll leave you with this...

Article 1 Section 8 of the constitution:
"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and General Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

 

[Fang]

why do the left wing regressives insist that college should be free...or rather, that the money for people's education should be extracted at gunpoint from other taxpayers....many of whom will not go to college?

Why don't they insist that those people attending college on the taxpayers expense, pay back the money they get......?

Why is that such a hard concept for bernie and hilary and the rest of the left wing regressives to get?

OMG You racist, bigoted, xenophobic, women hating nazi! How DARE you expect me to pay back money I borrowed from someone else! It's not MY responsibility. Someone else needs to take care of that. You're such a regressive living in the stone age.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I think Bernie supporters have already paid or are paying for their education...

The 20-something Bernie supporters have not paid for their "degree" yet.

There support must reflect a willingness to allocate funds from their future tax payments

LOL!

They also aren't expecting a time machine to magically take them back to pay for their college, even if Bernies free college policy goes through... Which it won't with our congress

They also aren't expecting a time machine to magically take them back to pay for their college

Don't need a time machine for government to forgive the debt.

Is debt forgiveness part of the conversation? Did I miss something?

If he hasn't explicitly pushed for it, his supporters think he has....or will.

haha, OK... just cause you say so, i guess

Yes, I say Bernie supporters aren't too bright.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I think Bernie supporters have already paid or are paying for their education...

The 20-something Bernie supporters have not paid for their "degree" yet.

There support must reflect a willingness to allocate funds from their future tax payments

LOL!

They also aren't expecting a time machine to magically take them back to pay for their college, even if Bernies free college policy goes through... Which it won't with our congress

They also aren't expecting a time machine to magically take them back to pay for their college

Don't need a time machine for government to forgive the debt.

Is debt forgiveness part of the conversation? Did I miss something?

If he hasn't explicitly pushed for it, his supporters think he has....or will.

So now you have a crystal ball that shows you the future? Come back when you have more than your imagination to back you up.

So now you have a crystal ball that shows you the future?

Yes. It shows that indebted graduates with useless degrees will push for debt forgiveness.
It also shows that Bernie favors this.

 

[Centinel]

Along with science, equality, voter's rights,a clean environment, a woman's right to chose, Black lives and the poor we see that Conservatives also hate higher education. Where do I sign up? This political ideology offers something against everyone.

"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all." -- Frédéric Bastiat

Just because one points out that the US government has no legislative authority concerning education doesn't mean one is opposed to education per se.

The benefits provided by an educated population are a thousand fold the costs. Education, and an educated citizenry promotes the general welfare far greater than an ignorant population can.

I agree, which is why I oppose government schooling. Aside from the fact that the federal government has no legitimate constitutional power to involve itself in education, education is too important to be delegated to government apparatchiks.

 

[Slade3200]

Along with science, equality, voter's rights,a clean environment, a woman's right to chose, Black lives and the poor we see that Conservatives also hate higher education. Where do I sign up? This political ideology offers something against everyone.

"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all." -- Frédéric Bastiat

Just because one points out that the US government has no legislative authority concerning education doesn't mean one is opposed to education per se.

The benefits provided by an educated population are a thousand fold the costs. Education, and an educated citizenry promotes the general welfare far greater than an ignorant population can.

I agree, which is why I oppose government schooling. Aside from the fact that the federal government has no legitimate constitutional power to involve itself in education, education is too important to be delegated to government apparatchiks.

I don't understand your objections... There is a private school system for those who can afford it and a public school system for those who can't... the public school system supports the General Welfare of the people, a power and responsibility given to government in the Constitution Article 1 section 8. Where are we off here?

 

[Centinel]

Along with science, equality, voter's rights,a clean environment, a woman's right to chose, Black lives and the poor we see that Conservatives also hate higher education. Where do I sign up? This political ideology offers something against everyone.

"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all." -- Frédéric Bastiat

Just because one points out that the US government has no legislative authority concerning education doesn't mean one is opposed to education per se.

The benefits provided by an educated population are a thousand fold the costs. Education, and an educated citizenry promotes the general welfare far greater than an ignorant population can.

I agree, which is why I oppose government schooling. Aside from the fact that the federal government has no legitimate constitutional power to involve itself in education, education is too important to be delegated to government apparatchiks.

I don't understand your objections... There is a private school system for those who can afford it and a public school system for those who can't... the public school system supports the General Welfare of the people, a power and responsibility given to government in the Constitution Article 1 section 8. Where are we off here?

Article I, section 8 doesn't give congress the power to support the general welfare of the people.

At a more fundamental level, my objection is that government should govern, not operate schools.

 

[Slade3200]

Along with science, equality, voter's rights,a clean environment, a woman's right to chose, Black lives and the poor we see that Conservatives also hate higher education. Where do I sign up? This political ideology offers something against everyone.

"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all." -- Frédéric Bastiat

Just because one points out that the US government has no legislative authority concerning education doesn't mean one is opposed to education per se.

The benefits provided by an educated population are a thousand fold the costs. Education, and an educated citizenry promotes the general welfare far greater than an ignorant population can.

I agree, which is why I oppose government schooling. Aside from the fact that the federal government has no legitimate constitutional power to involve itself in education, education is too important to be delegated to government apparatchiks.

I don't understand your objections... There is a private school system for those who can afford it and a public school system for those who can't... the public school system supports the General Welfare of the people, a power and responsibility given to government in the Constitution Article 1 section 8. Where are we off here?

Article I, section 8 doesn't give congress the power to support the general welfare of the people.

At a more fundamental level, my objection is that government should govern, not operate schools.

I agree, I think schools should be operated at the state level. I don't think there is anything wrong with the Fed's allocating tax payer funds to help improve our schools and create more opportunity if that is the will of the people. Isn't that the discussion?

 

[Centinel]

"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all." -- Frédéric Bastiat

Just because one points out that the US government has no legislative authority concerning education doesn't mean one is opposed to education per se.

The benefits provided by an educated population are a thousand fold the costs. Education, and an educated citizenry promotes the general welfare far greater than an ignorant population can.

I agree, which is why I oppose government schooling. Aside from the fact that the federal government has no legitimate constitutional power to involve itself in education, education is too important to be delegated to government apparatchiks.

I don't understand your objections... There is a private school system for those who can afford it and a public school system for those who can't... the public school system supports the General Welfare of the people, a power and responsibility given to government in the Constitution Article 1 section 8. Where are we off here?

Article I, section 8 doesn't give congress the power to support the general welfare of the people.

At a more fundamental level, my objection is that government should govern, not operate schools.

I agree, I think schools should be operated at the state level. I don't think there is anything wrong with the Fed's allocating tax payer funds to help improve our schools and create more opportunity if that is the will of the people. Isn't that the discussion?

There's the federal discussion and the state discussion. Unless you live in Pennsylvania, we have nothing to discuss concerning the state policy.

As far as the federal discussion, congress has no specific enumerated power to allocate taxpayer funds to help improve our schools.

 

[Slade3200]

Many feel that a better educated population supports the general welfare of the people. Are you objecting to our public school system in general or Bernies discussion of free tuition for college?

Article 1 SECTION 8
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Another thing we can imagine: 35 trillion in debt and growing faster. Yes, it's only 19 trillion today, but 10 trillion of that was put there by Obama. With Sanders in charge, it would be Obama on steroids.

Or we can make the rich pay their fair share instead of giving them huge tax cuts and corporate welfare.

Or.......we can make everybody start paying instead of the rich who fund over 70% of the income taxes collected today; you know, like that other half that pay 0 in income taxes now......

 

[Centinel]

Many feel that a better educated population supports the general welfare of the people. Are you objecting to our public school system in general or Bernies discussion of free tuition for college?

Article 1 SECTION 8
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

I assume you were asking me.

I'm objecting because congress has no enumerated power to allocate taxpayer funds to help improve our schools.

You cite clause 1 of Art I, section 8. This gives congress the power to collect taxes for certain purposes. It doesn't give congress the power to allocate taxpayer funds to help improve our schools.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I doubt that. You see, I carry my firearm most times. Our laws allow me to use my firearm (legally) if I am attacked. So you might be able to get a punch or two in, but I would make sure you momma would be crying by the end of the night.

dude, seriously, do you watch snuff films at night? Is that like your porn?

You need to watch snuff films to take an interest in defending yourself from attackers?

 

[Slade3200]

Many feel that a better educated population supports the general welfare of the people. Are you objecting to our public school system in general or Bernies discussion of free tuition for college?

Article 1 SECTION 8
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

I assume you were asking me.

I'm objecting because congress has no enumerated power to allocate taxpayer funds to help improve our schools.

You cite clause 1 of Art I, section 8. This gives congress the power to collect taxes for certain purposes. It doesn't give congress the power to allocate taxpayer funds to help improve our schools.

So you feel that federal funding allocated to our public schools is unconstitutional? If so, how then to you propose a poor state or community improve schools that have substandard conditions for the students?

 

[Centinel]

Many feel that a better educated population supports the general welfare of the people. Are you objecting to our public school system in general or Bernies discussion of free tuition for college?

Article 1 SECTION 8
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

I assume you were asking me.

I'm objecting because congress has no enumerated power to allocate taxpayer funds to help improve our schools.

You cite clause 1 of Art I, section 8. This gives congress the power to collect taxes for certain purposes. It doesn't give congress the power to allocate taxpayer funds to help improve our schools.

So you feel that federal funding allocated to our public schools is unconstitutional?

Correct. Art I, section 8 confers no power to allocate taxpayer funds to help improve our schools.

If so, how then to you propose a poor state or community improve schools that have substandard conditions for the students?

In my own state, county, and town, I would advocate that the government discontinue operating schools and allow private citizens to teach people.

 

[Markle]

Many feel that a better educated population supports the general welfare of the people. Are you objecting to our public school system in general or Bernies discussion of free tuition for college?

Article 1 SECTION 8
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Just because someone "FEELS" something doesn't mean it is a responsibility of the Federal Government. The Department of Education should be shut down. Schools are the responsibility of the states.

 

[Markle]

Many feel that a better educated population supports the general welfare of the people. Are you objecting to our public school system in general or Bernies discussion of free tuition for college?

Article 1 SECTION 8
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

I assume you were asking me.

I'm objecting because congress has no enumerated power to allocate taxpayer funds to help improve our schools.

You cite clause 1 of Art I, section 8. This gives congress the power to collect taxes for certain purposes. It doesn't give congress the power to allocate taxpayer funds to help improve our schools.

So you feel that federal funding allocated to our public schools is unconstitutional? If so, how then to you propose a poor state or community improve schools that have substandard conditions for the students?

How has that worked out so far?