Since when does the Catholic Church have the right to force their religious values...

[California Girl]

Where the hell did discrimination come into this? The Catholic Church is not discriminating against anyone. They do not want to provide a service that violates their beliefs. Period. The other side thinks it is all right for them to be forced into the corner.

You are an idiot. No where did they do any such thing whatsoever. They simply do not want to be a part of it. The employees still have full rights to do whatever they damn well please. You simply do not want to afford the religious institution that same right.

That US law is the problem though because it is utter bullshit. It requires them to provide birth control yet sores right over other medical needs like hearing aids as already covered in this very thread (and the point went unanswered). Why in the hell is BC a mandated service when all those others are not? By what bullshit right does the government decide you MUST cover simple and cheap pills for women and then glaze over actual medical needs that are damn near unobtainable for people that actually need help. It is partisan bullshit agenda pushing and you should wake the hell up to it. The Catholic institutions WANT to provide medical coverage for their employees. They are actively trying to cover them. Then daddy government comes in and says hay, you can't make sure that your employees are healthy and have good coverage unless you buy into MY philosophy and cover what WE want covered, even if it goes against your deeply held convictions. This is a classic case of government stepping WAY over their bounds to force people into doing something they have absolutely ZERO right doing. There is no defense whatsoever that you can put up that puts BC as a required coverage and still ignores all the other procedures that are simply not required.

Good point...so what happens now if the Catholic church just decides not to provide health insurance for it's employees?

They can do that, but they are competing for talent in their businesses just like any other business. You're a medical professional looking for a job in a hospital, or you're an education professional looking for a job at a university...

...how high on your list do you think you'll put the ones with no healthcare plan/benefit???

It's moot. Your messiah caved.

 

[Annie]

Good point...so what happens now if the Catholic church just decides not to provide health insurance for it's employees?

They can do that, but they are competing for talent in their businesses just like any other business. You're a medical professional looking for a job in a hospital, or you're an education professional looking for a job at a university...

...how high on your list do you think you'll put the ones with no healthcare plan/benefit???

It's moot. Your messiah caved.

I don't see that as a cave. If basically ALL Insurers provide, then the church has no alternatives. He's just creating the same in a different way.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Where the hell did discrimination come into this? The Catholic Church is not discriminating against anyone. They do not want to provide a service that violates their beliefs. Period. The other side thinks it is all right for them to be forced into the corner.

You are an idiot. No where did they do any such thing whatsoever. They simply do not want to be a part of it. The employees still have full rights to do whatever they damn well please. You simply do not want to afford the religious institution that same right.

That US law is the problem though because it is utter bullshit. It requires them to provide birth control yet sores right over other medical needs like hearing aids as already covered in this very thread (and the point went unanswered). Why in the hell is BC a mandated service when all those others are not? By what bullshit right does the government decide you MUST cover simple and cheap pills for women and then glaze over actual medical needs that are damn near unobtainable for people that actually need help. It is partisan bullshit agenda pushing and you should wake the hell up to it. The Catholic institutions WANT to provide medical coverage for their employees. They are actively trying to cover them. Then daddy government comes in and says hay, you can't make sure that your employees are healthy and have good coverage unless you buy into MY philosophy and cover what WE want covered, even if it goes against your deeply held convictions. This is a classic case of government stepping WAY over their bounds to force people into doing something they have absolutely ZERO right doing. There is no defense whatsoever that you can put up that puts BC as a required coverage and still ignores all the other procedures that are simply not required.

Good point...so what happens now if the Catholic church just decides not to provide health insurance for it's employees?

They can do that, but they are competing for talent in their businesses just like any other business. You're a medical professional looking for a job in a hospital, or you're an education professional looking for a job at a university...

...how high on your list do you think you'll put the ones with no healthcare plan/benefit???

In theory the Church could manifest their own health plans given the fact they own half the damn hospitals in the country..

They could also deny those on Obamafuck care if they really wanted to..

 

[Mr.Nick]

Realistically the government is in no position to be bullying the Church given the churches position in society...

How many hospitals are run by Catholic organizations connected to the Catholic church??

How many hospitals have "St." before their name again??

 

[saveliberty]

It's moot. Your messiah caved.

Course he did, just had to sabre rattle for the left, before protecting the independent vote count.

Here's some ggod advice lefties: Don't stand too close to the bus.

 

[California Girl]

It's moot. Your messiah caved.

Course he did, just had to sabre rattle for the left, before protecting the independent vote count.

Here's some ggod advice lefties: Don't stand too close to the bus.

Good advice. He just threw the left under the bus.... again... or did he just reverse over them again?

The question really now is how will people of faith view Obama now? How much damage has he done with those voters? How the hell does he deal with liberal Catholics and Jews saying they don't trust Obama's attitude towards all faiths?

I don't think this compromise - ooops, accommodation - is gonna bridge the hole he's dug between his administration and those who follow a faith.

 

[saveliberty]

More of a burnout.

I figured Obama for a socialist from day one. Socialism and religion don't mix well. Usually the socialists attack religion. Good thing we don't do that here....

 

[Cecilie1200]

Where the hell did discrimination come into this? The Catholic Church is not discriminating against anyone. They do not want to provide a service that violates their beliefs. Period. The other side thinks it is all right for them to be forced into the corner.

You are an idiot. No where did they do any such thing whatsoever. They simply do not want to be a part of it. The employees still have full rights to do whatever they damn well please. You simply do not want to afford the religious institution that same right.

That US law is the problem though because it is utter bullshit. It requires them to provide birth control yet sores right over other medical needs like hearing aids as already covered in this very thread (and the point went unanswered). Why in the hell is BC a mandated service when all those others are not? By what bullshit right does the government decide you MUST cover simple and cheap pills for women and then glaze over actual medical needs that are damn near unobtainable for people that actually need help. It is partisan bullshit agenda pushing and you should wake the hell up to it. The Catholic institutions WANT to provide medical coverage for their employees. They are actively trying to cover them. Then daddy government comes in and says hay, you can't make sure that your employees are healthy and have good coverage unless you buy into MY philosophy and cover what WE want covered, even if it goes against your deeply held convictions. This is a classic case of government stepping WAY over their bounds to force people into doing something they have absolutely ZERO right doing. There is no defense whatsoever that you can put up that puts BC as a required coverage and still ignores all the other procedures that are simply not required.

Good point...so what happens now if the Catholic church just decides not to provide health insurance for it's employees?

I've been wondering what law would kick in if the Church and related Hospitals et al screened all employees based on religion?

Would they not get a double whammy here?

Let's take another example. If this goes forward, I as a Christian could force a Muslim School financed with public funds (and yes, I know where they are) to hire Christians and Jews and then force the Muslim school to provide all of Obama's dream condoms, birth control pills, morning after pills and then penultimately abortion all under Obamacare.

whoopsies hit post instead of preview.

I guarantee you just try telling a muslim public school funded by taxpayers that they have to provide bc pills let alone the morning after pill let alone condoms let alone a book called "Mohammed had two daddies" and that boat ain't going to float.

Ahh, but see, that's the point. Since the church itself can discriminate legally in the hiring of its employees (church secretary, the janitor who cleans the sanctuary, that sort of thing), the idea is to force churches to operate NOTHING BUT the church. Isolate them from doing anything in the community at all, or dilute them into nothing but another generic, secular charitable group.

 

[Katzndogz]

obama just declared pregnancy a preventable disease and abortion the cure. More of a danger than cancer, heart disease, AIDS, or any other disease for which treatment requires payment participation by the person who has the disease.

If anything, he made it worse.

 

[saveliberty]

What sort of room do they take employees into when they "force" them to have the same views? Is there water boarding involved? Being Catholic is sounding really fun all of a sudden.

 

[Mr.Nick]

What sort of room do they take employees into when they "force" them to have the same views? Is there water boarding involved? Being Catholic is sounding really fun all of a sudden.

Of course if you wear a crucifix around your neck you're "shoving Christian views down their throats."

 

[Cecilie1200]

Realistically the government is in no position to be bullying the Church given the churches position in society...

How many hospitals are run by Catholic organizations connected to the Catholic church??

How many hospitals have "St." before their name again??

Oh, it's not just the hospitals, either. (For the record, my city has four Catholic hospitals, a Catholic heart and vascular institute, and a Catholic imaging center.)

In any city, about half of all the charities for the poor and indigent are run under the auspices of the Catholic Church. The local welfare office routinely refers its clients to a list of Catholic charities for more aid, or for services they don't offer. They operate homeless shelters, battered-women shelters, food banks, clothing banks, disaster relief . . .

 

[Cecilie1200]

What sort of room do they take employees into when they "force" them to have the same views? Is there water boarding involved? Being Catholic is sounding really fun all of a sudden.

Of course if you wear a crucifix around your neck you're "shoving Christian views down their throats."

Or carrying a Bible without a nice book cover to obscure what it is.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Realistically the government is in no position to be bullying the Church given the churches position in society...

How many hospitals are run by Catholic organizations connected to the Catholic church??

How many hospitals have "St." before their name again??

Oh, it's not just the hospitals, either. (For the record, my city has four Catholic hospitals, a Catholic heart and vascular institute, and a Catholic imaging center.)

In any city, about half of all the charities for the poor and indigent are run under the auspices of the Catholic Church. The local welfare office routinely refers its clients to a list of Catholic charities for more aid, or for services they don't offer. They operate homeless shelters, battered-women shelters, food banks, clothing banks, disaster relief . . .

Oh believe me I know - I donate...

That is why Obama is in no position to tell Catholics they need to provide contraceptives.

The Church could run and operate entirely secular from the government...

The Church could tell government to go fuck off and run the communities themselves.

Maybe they should - the government could do absolutely nothing about it..

These Catholic run organizations could create their own health care plan, considering they own the resources (hospitals) to do such...

 

[Mr.Nick]

What sort of room do they take employees into when they "force" them to have the same views? Is there water boarding involved? Being Catholic is sounding really fun all of a sudden.

Of course if you wear a crucifix around your neck you're "shoving Christian views down their throats."

Or carrying a Bible without a nice book cover to obscure what it is.

I know - it's almost like the anti-Christian crowed are a bunch of vampires... They see a Bible or a Crucifix and they hiss and run for cover..

 

[bripat9643]

U.S. law cannot conflict with the First Amendment, you fucking moron. Obama and the Dims aren't free to make any law they want trampling over the First Amendment rights of business owners. However, you and your moronic goosestepping ilk think Congress isn't required to follow the Constitution.

NYS law requires the same birth control insurance as the federal law and was upheld by the courts in 2007.

Prove it.

 

[frazzledgear]

...on their non Catholic employees?

Churches are exempt from the ruling.

However, religious institutions that employ and serve people outside their faith -- hospitals, elementary schools, universities -- have to comply with the requirement to cover birth control if they offer health insurance coverage for employees. That means such Catholic institutions, which employ and serve wide swaths of non-Catholics across the country, will not be exempt, despite church teachings against use of contraception.

Obama Administration's New Contraception Rule Puts Key Catholic Vote at Risk

What gives the Catholic church (or any church, for that matter) the right to force their religious convictions on employees who aren't even catholic?

They would only be forcing their religious beliefs on their employees if they FIRED them for using contraceptives you idiot! THAT would be forcing its own religious doctrine on others -and it not only doesn't do that for non-Catholic employees, it doesn't and does not wish to do that even for its Catholic employees either. There is no such thing as a "right" to force your employer to abandon his OWN religious beliefs and doctrine and no right to force your employer to violate his religious doctrine. And then pull the typical lying ass, lowlife scummy liberal bullshit that unless he is forced to violate his OWN religious doctrine, he is somehow violating yours! Which is really the position you took in your post. You MORON. That is NOT how rights work and I urge you to find out exactly how they do so you will recognize when they come after YOURS!

Why is it liberals think rights are always a one-way street and the only direction on that one-way street that even counts is the way that will most benefit THEM?? And at the expense of the rights of anyone else. YOUR rights are not greater than MY rights. YOURS cannot come at the expense of MINE. Your "reasoning" for why forcing the Catholic Church to do this would be the IDENTICAL one used to justify forcing the Catholic Church to cover abortion services for its employees or force Catholic hospitals to perform abortions. What is the difference? Yet you aren't doing that -yet. After all, it employs people who don't have a problem with abortion and non-Catholics are patients at their hospitals, so what is the difference except an arbitrary line YOU are drawing here? BOTH violate the religious doctrine of the Catholic Church and YOU don't have the right to decide which is more valid as part of their religious doctrine! Forcing them to violate it because you don't mind for one of them means when you change your mind, you can force it to violate it any time YOU want. Except our rights don't work that way -they aren't determined by a popularity contest where majority rules about what rights OTHERS have!

What you are really insisting is that employees have the greater "right" to force a religious institution to violate and abandon its own religious doctrine (in the name of respecting religious freedom -what a joke) and be forced to provide coverage for contraception -and by implication, that it can be ordered to abandon religious doctrine and engage in ANY activity that may violate its religious tenets whenever government orders it to. (Yet you are no doubt critical of the Catholic Church for doing just that during WWll, right?) Upholding everyone's rights here means employees can't be fired for using contraceptives even though that violates the religious doctrine of their employer -but the employer can't be forced to provide them, pay for it or forced to HELP them get it. You have the right to get and use birth control -but no right to force ME to help you do it when doing so violates MY religious doctrine and beliefs! NO SUCH RIGHT EXISTS to force your employer to violate their religious doctrine just because it isn't part of YOUR religious doctrine. You want contraceptives -go get them. But just because you WANT them doesn't mean I have to PROVIDE THEM when doing so violates MY religious beliefs! Is it really THAT difficult for a liberal to grasp how our rights REALLY work for everyone and not just for YOU, too hard to comprehend how our rights are ALWAYS two way streets and YOUR rights never come at the expense of my own, how YOUR rights do not take precedence over my own? They CO-EXIST equally -and that I can't be stripped of MY rights just because you personally have no problem with it if I were?

Using your reasoning, isn't the Catholic Church also "violating" the rights of others unless they provide coverage for abortion services for their employees and their Catholic hospitals are being forced to perform abortions?? You get to pick and choose which acts the Catholic Church must be forced to violate because you think YOU have a "right" to decide which is more valid as part of their doctrine? Or on the stupid grounds that since neither of these violate YOUR religious beliefs, you get to force others to violate THEIRS? You have no such right! They still violate those of the people you want to force to pay, provide or help you get them! No such right exists to force them to violate their own religious doctrine by providing, paying for or helping you get either contraceptives OR an abortion! Do you get it when it comes to abortion but can't grasp it with contraceptives or what? Your right to have your own religious beliefs or none at all still doesn't ever give you the greater right to force others to violate their own. You want contraceptives -go get it. But the fact you WANT it doesn't give you a right to FORCE me to PROVIDE IT. Or PAY for it. Or HELP YOU GET IT. Because doing so is violating MY rights. And MY rights count just as much as YOURS. PERIOD. Not too difficult to really get after all, is it?

Liberals are either morons or power hungry totalitarians with few in between who understand how to uphold and respect the rights of ALL PARTIES! But try to grasp this one. Your post is based on the false assumption that "freedom of religion" only means others have the right to have religious beliefs -but no right to actually LIVE by them. Wrong. The founders specifically stuck in that "free exercise" clause for people like YOU who would come along insisting their rights could only be upheld and respected if those of everyone else were violated and disrespected.

 

[Againsheila]

What sort of room do they take employees into when they "force" them to have the same views? Is there water boarding involved? Being Catholic is sounding really fun all of a sudden.

Go see "Late night Caticism Class" It's a great play. We had some highschool girls volunteering at the theater when it played and afterwords, they were saying they wanted to be catholic.

 

[Neotrotsky]

"to stop the multiplication of the unfit."

If the Progressives succeed
who will vote for them ?

 

[The T]

"to stop the multiplication of the unfit."

If the Progressives succeed
who will vote for them ?

For now through abortion they kill off thier own kind...what they want to impose is making everyone else submit to thier sickness.

And for those that are elderly? They have engineered IPAB.