Since when does the Catholic Church have the right to force their religious values...

[frazzledgear]

If the Progressives were to succeed in all their goals

who would pay the bills?

Right now we have more pulling the "cart" then in it

Once that changes, what then?

Really, they should start training people now to be conservatives
so they have enough people to pay the bills in the future

The new slavery courtesy of the US Government.

Obama has overstepped his authority.

Tyranny? Slavery?

Maybe you would like to call the UN for help.

Oh, THAT'S right. I forgot. You guys don't trust them and their black helicopters with all the international conspiracies going on and all.

Perhaps you would care to send an SOS messages out into space.

I'm sorry, are you under the impression that the UN gives a flying fuck about people's RIGHTS? Really? Is there really a valid excuse for willful ignorance?

 

[beagle9]

So you say he caved, but the Church isn't happy with it, but Planned parenthood is...

...what kind of a cave is that exactly?

And no this isn't bringing churches together against him, it's just making church people who were already against him squawk loud enough to get noticed for another 15 minutes.

He has caved.... but the churches ain't buyin' what your messiah is selling. 54% of Catholics weren't against Obama - they put him in Office. The Catholic vote has been the deciding swing vote for decades - since, like, the early 1960s. If you think Catholics are gonna vote for someone who tries to rob them of their religious freedom, you are in for a surprise. And, when you combine those, with other faiths who also backed him in 2008, but who are now siding with the Catholic Church.... I'd say you have a slight credibility problem.

You wrongly believe that the average Catholic voter opposes birth control, or opposes its availability.

I would love to see the stats or ratio's over the last 30 to 35 years or more, upon who exactly is using the abortion method in this nation, and this more so than the other, all be it white females, black females, latino females etc. that choose abortion over giving birth more so than the other.

Then I would love to see a study done afterwards or upon recieving such stats, of just exactly what the reasoning is, and upon what the importance is, of using this issue as a weapon maybe, to hopefully what (?) continue deminishing by way of abortion, and by way of the ease in which it is obtained now, a people/population/culture/race, over one another in this nation, as to then vanish quickly as a result of the usage of (or) heavy usage of this birth control method, in which is being backed heavily now by this government? Is there an ominus message to be found in all of this, I mean when looking maybe at the stats and the results found within the heavy usage by one group or another, and what it is doing to the population of that group/race/people/culture? Now why is the government so heavily involved in this again?

 

[Dr.House]

You wrongly believe that the average Catholic voter opposes birth control, or opposes its availability.

You wrongly believe the average Catholic voter supports the church paying for birth control...

The church isn't paying for it. The employee is paying for it with his or her LABOR.

Labor pays for birth control?

Are you drunk?

 

[Dr.House]

So you say he caved, but the Church isn't happy with it, but Planned parenthood is...

...what kind of a cave is that exactly?

And no this isn't bringing churches together against him, it's just making church people who were already against him squawk loud enough to get noticed for another 15 minutes.

Less than five minutes in the voting booth is all we need.

You never did, never would, and never will vote for him anyway. You are irrelevant.

Just as 0bama caving or not won't effect your vote...

You are irrelevant...

 

[saveliberty]

Could be wrong, but I think most Catholics want birth control to be between them and God, not them and Obama.

 

[saveliberty]

So you say he caved, but the Church isn't happy with it, but Planned parenthood is...

...what kind of a cave is that exactly?

And no this isn't bringing churches together against him, it's just making church people who were already against him squawk loud enough to get noticed for another 15 minutes.

Less than five minutes in the voting booth is all we need.

You never did, never would, and never will vote for him anyway. You are irrelevant.

So irrelevant your all butt hurt.

 

[California Girl]

Could be wrong, but I think most Catholics want birth control to be between them and God, not them and Obama.

True.

 

[Sarah G]

That's actually not true. The Churches (and it is not just the Catholic Church).... are not happy with the 'accommodation'.

Brilliant? Meh, not so much. Even the black churches are pissed at Obama. He's managed to do one thing though... he has managed to bring together every major faith in the United States.... against him.

So you say he caved, but the Church isn't happy with it, but Planned parenthood is...

...what kind of a cave is that exactly?

And no this isn't bringing churches together against him, it's just making church people who were already against him squawk loud enough to get noticed for another 15 minutes.

He has caved.... but the churches ain't buyin' what your messiah is selling. 54% of Catholics weren't against Obama - they put him in Office. The Catholic vote has been the deciding swing vote for decades - since, like, the early 1960s. If you think Catholics are gonna vote for someone who tries to rob them of their religious freedom, you are in for a surprise. And, when you combine those, with other faiths who also backed him in 2008, but who are now siding with the Catholic Church.... I'd say you have a slight credibility problem.

We'll just see how this goes thank you very much. It might be good if we could try not to speculate what catholics are gonna vote for.

 

[Big Fitz]

The issue is not one of pushing catholic morality, but pushing LIBERAL "MORALITY" onto an organization in direct violation of the First Amendment. You know, the one that says "congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of religion"... you know the rest.

Lefties want to force the catholic church to provide FREE contraception and abortion coverage.

The Church says "We're disinclined to aquiesce to your request. Means 'no'."

So the left goes off with the screaming mimis trying to claim they're pushing their morality.

The catch is that the church is not. They are REFUSING to bow to another's morality by refusing to participate in what they consider an immoral act!

Are they stopping people from buying these family planning items? No. Blocking it from their employees? No. Preventing them from buying other insurance that will? No.

So where's the problem? Ahhhhh.... that's the REAL trick of it, isn't it? The problem is that they are refusing to violate a core principle of their religion because some tin pot african dictator wannabe says so.

This very well could be the left's Waterloo, depending on how hard the Admin and the leftists in congress want to push it. There's the showdown, and when it comes down to it, the Catholic Church is going to have to make some very hard choices, and I would not be surprised if pushed hard enough, there will be some very public excommunications out of this. Ones that are decades overdue.

 

[California Girl]

So you say he caved, but the Church isn't happy with it, but Planned parenthood is...

...what kind of a cave is that exactly?

And no this isn't bringing churches together against him, it's just making church people who were already against him squawk loud enough to get noticed for another 15 minutes.

He has caved.... but the churches ain't buyin' what your messiah is selling. 54% of Catholics weren't against Obama - they put him in Office. The Catholic vote has been the deciding swing vote for decades - since, like, the early 1960s. If you think Catholics are gonna vote for someone who tries to rob them of their religious freedom, you are in for a surprise. And, when you combine those, with other faiths who also backed him in 2008, but who are now siding with the Catholic Church.... I'd say you have a slight credibility problem.

We'll just see how this goes thank you very much. It might be good if we could try not to speculate what catholics are gonna vote for.

I've only ever pointed out that, as a block, Catholics are the biggest swing vote - we hold no allegiance to either party.... Catholics are rarely 'far' right or 'far' left... as a group, we are moderate. We have, since around 1960, voted as a majority for the eventual winner of the election. And we have heavy populations in the battle ground states. To Obama, we are a big deal. So are other religious groups. You might not like it but that's how it is.

There is a big deal with this, and it is not about what the left wing media is telling you it's about.

 

[Sarah G]

He has caved.... but the churches ain't buyin' what your messiah is selling. 54% of Catholics weren't against Obama - they put him in Office. The Catholic vote has been the deciding swing vote for decades - since, like, the early 1960s. If you think Catholics are gonna vote for someone who tries to rob them of their religious freedom, you are in for a surprise. And, when you combine those, with other faiths who also backed him in 2008, but who are now siding with the Catholic Church.... I'd say you have a slight credibility problem.

We'll just see how this goes thank you very much. It might be good if we could try not to speculate what catholics are gonna vote for.

I've only ever pointed out that, as a block, Catholics are the biggest swing vote - we hold no allegiance to either party.... Catholics are rarely 'far' right or 'far' left... as a group, we are moderate. We have, since around 1960, voted as a majority for the eventual winner of the election. And we have heavy populations in the battle ground states. To Obama, we are a big deal. So are other religious groups. You might not like it but that's how it is.

There is a big deal with this, and it is not about what the left wing media is telling you it's about.

They are split on this issue, CG. Catholics are not a block anymore than this board would be considered a block. Just let it go and listen awhile. The media can be very informative you know.

 

[California Girl]

We'll just see how this goes thank you very much. It might be good if we could try not to speculate what catholics are gonna vote for.

I've only ever pointed out that, as a block, Catholics are the biggest swing vote - we hold no allegiance to either party.... Catholics are rarely 'far' right or 'far' left... as a group, we are moderate. We have, since around 1960, voted as a majority for the eventual winner of the election. And we have heavy populations in the battle ground states. To Obama, we are a big deal. So are other religious groups. You might not like it but that's how it is.

There is a big deal with this, and it is not about what the left wing media is telling you it's about.

They are split on this issue, CG. Catholics are not a block anymore than this board would be considered a block. Just let it go and listen awhile. The media can be very informative you know.

Oh, I am listening to the media. I know what they're saying and I know they're deliberately misrepresenting the issue. They are making it about birth control because birth control is an easier 'win' for them. It is not about birth control... not to us. To all those who follow a faith it is about freedom of religion. That's a much harder one for the left to spin their way - which is why they don't want to discuss that issue. Because they cannot win it.

I explained it to you in another thread and you chose to ignore it. I assume because it's too hard to argue against.... it is what it is. Across this country last Sunday - and not just in Catholic Churches - those congregations heard very clearly what this issue is... and it ain't birth control.

And, for the record, every poll that asks the right question - about whether church funded charities should be forced to breach their doctrine - the polls do not show a 'split'... they show an overwhelming support for the church's stance. Unlucky.

 

[The T]

If the Progressives were to succeed in all their goals

who would pay the bills?

Right now we have more pulling the "cart" then in it

Once that changes, what then?

Really, they should start training people now to be conservatives
so they have enough people to pay the bills in the future

The new slavery courtesy of the US Government.

Obama has overstepped his authority.

Tyranny? Slavery?

Maybe you would like to call the UN for help.

Oh, THAT'S right. I forgot. You guys don't trust them and their black helicopters with all the international conspiracies going on and all.

Perhaps you would care to send an SOS messages out into space.

You mean the He-Man Despots and Dictators America Haters Club? The one that is more concerned of robbing us not only of money but our soverignty? THAT U.N.?

You remain an idiot.

Wake up.

 

[saveliberty]

We'll just see how this goes thank you very much. It might be good if we could try not to speculate what catholics are gonna vote for.

I've only ever pointed out that, as a block, Catholics are the biggest swing vote - we hold no allegiance to either party.... Catholics are rarely 'far' right or 'far' left... as a group, we are moderate. We have, since around 1960, voted as a majority for the eventual winner of the election. And we have heavy populations in the battle ground states. To Obama, we are a big deal. So are other religious groups. You might not like it but that's how it is.

There is a big deal with this, and it is not about what the left wing media is telling you it's about.

They are split on this issue, CG. Catholics are not a block anymore than this board would be considered a block. Just let it go and listen awhile. The media can be very informative you know.

Keep it up Sarah, the more this gets talked about, the more ALL religious people will send Obama a big message in the fall. I'm loving it. He showed his true colors this time.

 

[Intense]

Fuck, Principle, Ideal, Morals, Value, Conscience. The Point is that the Religious Community is split.

It's about what Obama wants, right?

 

[Stephanie]

If the Progressives were to succeed in all their goals

who would pay the bills?

Right now we have more pulling the "cart" then in it

Once that changes, what then?

Really, they should start training people now to be conservatives
so they have enough people to pay the bills in the future

The new slavery courtesy of the US Government.

Obama has overstepped his authority.

Tyranny? Slavery?

Maybe you would like to call the UN for help.

Oh, THAT'S right. I forgot. You guys don't trust them and their black helicopters with all the international conspiracies going on and all.

Perhaps you would care to send an SOS messages out into space.

just bury your head in the sand and pretend like anything that is said about Obama isn't true.
One day (soon) you will pay for it.

 

[The T]

The new slavery courtesy of the US Government.

Obama has overstepped his authority.

Tyranny? Slavery?

Maybe you would like to call the UN for help.

Oh, THAT'S right. I forgot. You guys don't trust them and their black helicopters with all the international conspiracies going on and all.

Perhaps you would care to send an SOS messages out into space.

just bury your head in the sand and pretend like anything that is said about Obama isn't true.
One day (soon) you will pay for it.

Some people just prefer to live in an alternate universe where they are told what they can do, have, and say. They refuse to think for themselves. Some loathe thier own liberty.

 

[Peach]

Wait!

What?

The Church is forcing people to work for it?

Heaven forefend!

Apparently, the Catholic church thinks it can deny their non Catholic employees THEIR religious values.

What's next? Lie detector tests to see if their employees are using birth control?

They are welcome to seek employment elsewhere.

And the church may decline to accept taxpayer dollars from states and the Federal government. That would prevent any interference with their operations. Personally, I sympathize with a "Catholic" church being forced to provide abortions, the morning after pill, or any other service that violates church doctrine.
***************************************

 

[NYcarbineer]

Where the hell did discrimination come into this? The Catholic Church is not discriminating against anyone. They do not want to provide a service that violates their beliefs. Period. The other side thinks it is all right for them to be forced into the corner.

You are an idiot. No where did they do any such thing whatsoever. They simply do not want to be a part of it. The employees still have full rights to do whatever they damn well please. You simply do not want to afford the religious institution that same right.

That US law is the problem though because it is utter bullshit. It requires them to provide birth control yet sores right over other medical needs like hearing aids as already covered in this very thread (and the point went unanswered). Why in the hell is BC a mandated service when all those others are not? By what bullshit right does the government decide you MUST cover simple and cheap pills for women and then glaze over actual medical needs that are damn near unobtainable for people that actually need help. It is partisan bullshit agenda pushing and you should wake the hell up to it. The Catholic institutions WANT to provide medical coverage for their employees. They are actively trying to cover them. Then daddy government comes in and says hay, you can't make sure that your employees are healthy and have good coverage unless you buy into MY philosophy and cover what WE want covered, even if it goes against your deeply held convictions. This is a classic case of government stepping WAY over their bounds to force people into doing something they have absolutely ZERO right doing. There is no defense whatsoever that you can put up that puts BC as a required coverage and still ignores all the other procedures that are simply not required.

Good point...so what happens now if the Catholic church just decides not to provide health insurance for it's employees?

They would be fined by the government for not providing HC. That was the basis for the lawsuit. Uncle Sam was basically saying break your convictions or we are going to take your money and break them for you. It is asinine.

The Church has no claim to 'convictions' on this issue. Catholic businesses all across the country have been offering this healthcare benefit as part of their employee insurance packages. It's already the law in at least 20 states.

 

[California Girl]

Apparently, the Catholic church thinks it can deny their non Catholic employees THEIR religious values.

What's next? Lie detector tests to see if their employees are using birth control?

They are welcome to seek employment elsewhere.

And the church may decline to accept taxpayer dollars from states and the Federal government. That would prevent any interference with their operations. Personally, I sympathize with a "Catholic" church being forced to provide abortions, the morning after pill, or any other service that violates church doctrine.

You clearly don't understand the issue. We are not being forced to provide abortions, the morning after pill or anything else. We are being forced to provide insurance policies that cover those things to our employees. We cannot do that. It is against our beliefs.

And, the church is providing programs that would otherwise have to be funded by government. Given that churches run charities better than any government is capable of, this is a very cost effective way of providing those services... it saves the taxpayers money.